The Fed Who Blew the Whistle

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  • Posted By: DLand @ 12/15/2008 9:04:45 PM

    RE:bighappy --Nowhere else to turn...I belive that! Think back to what it was like 2003/2004...No one went against Bush/Cheney. There were no Dems that would stand up for them selves or us anywhere. I thank Mr. Tamms for his scarifice & if he is to be charged than Bush/Cheney had better be as well!

  • Posted By: RichinNH @ 12/15/2008 7:07:14 AM

    Guys (and gals), I appreciate the academic discussion and framework of morality, our Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc. ??? it all sounds wonderful, but back in the real world (where I live), he is duty-bound to raise and resolve any of these potential concerns internally, within the system, before compromising potentially sensitive information. It is not clear this poor guy did this or is even aware of how his ???innocent??? release could come back and hurt operations and real Americans. Believe me, the framework exists for all of these moral concerns to be addressed ??? without a hit team being dispatched to his home like some SCI-FI movie. But even a Congressional Inquiry can raise his concern to a very high profile - our elected leaders, who also have clearances and can best escalate without risking compromise ??? at least in theory??? as most of our leaks actually come from these people, who have been known to also place political and personal gain over our national requirements. Looking past the victim garb the media has bestowed on this guy, he is not unlike a soldier who must distinguish between lawful from unlawful orders, gov???t employees who have been granted special trust and accesses must maintain the integrity of that information. So, I just don???t buy the ???he???s just a righteous patriot in a corrupt environment??? angle ??? he violated a trust, his contract and the law and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 8:37:05 AM

      "Guys (and gals), I appreciate the academic discussion and framework of morality, our Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc. ??? it all sounds wonderful, but back in the real world (where I live), "

      So it is your opinion that the US constitution doesn't work "in the real world"? That it is simply some ivory tower construct that Americans should simply pay lip service to?

      • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/15/2008 8:45:05 PM

        No it means that US Constitution still provides ways report power abuse without violating laws. If it does not (and I believe it does) - it is not worthy to be protected.

      • Posted By: RichinNH @ 12/15/2008 9:30:15 AM

        No, HB, stay with me on this as I find many tend to get too far out front and do what you have just done in taking something someone actually did say and placing in front of a silly conclusion and still try to attribute the conclusion to the author. My point is that many tend to over-rely on our great framework documents and philosophies to the point where the discussion become more academic and removed from the real power of these documents and how they really do translate into our everyday lives. More specifically in this example ??? our national security, where real men and women are in harms way every day in the defense of the liberties we enjoy from those same documents and our way of life. So to make this argument of big-sky topics of freedoms and liberties and hurl out slippery slopes of Red China et al is really disingenuous and only serves to distract from the real issue: that is that this man violated his position of trust with his country (however rightful his intentions), he broke the law and now deserves to be punished and more importantly: to be made a very public example of. We hold 17-yr old privates more accountable for their decisions in obviously much more arduous environments ??? I think we can certainly hold a 56-yr old as well as our elected officials to a similar standard. Hope this clarifies my point. Thanks, it's been fun - time to get back to work.

        • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 11:23:48 AM

          "My point is that many tend to over-rely on our great framework documents and philosophies to the point where the discussion become more academic and removed from the real power of these documents and how they really do translate into our everyday lives. More specifically in this example ??? our national security, where real men and women are in harms way every day in the defense of the liberties we enjoy from those same documents and our way of life."

          National security? If you allow your constitution to be over-ridden every time someone yells "national security", then you may as well not have it.

          Also, listening in on anti-war protestors - one of the allegations made - does not assist your national security, unless you have made the decision that anti-war protestors are terrorists. A constitution is not a set of guidelines, it is the highest law a nation has.

          • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:28:04 PM

            "I appreciate the academic discussion and framework of morality, our Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc. ??? it all sounds wonderful, but back in the real world ..."

            Your words, not HB's. You were the one who fairly explicitly said that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were just some kind of academic fairy tale, not the "real world."

            And there, we see the crux of the problem: you don't believe that there should be any limits on government (you know, the Constitution being the "supreme law of the land," the oath of office *to the Constitution*, etc.). People like HB and myself believe... differently.

          • Posted By: Sheldon Metz @ 12/15/2008 2:06:12 PM

            To RichinNH: The point you neglect to mention is Bush and his cronies committed the crime(s). Tamm reported the crime, after he consulted with and asked others for help and they all said no, in their own manner. A man sworn to justice. Was Feld a traitor in reporting the Watergate break in? Under the Whistleblowers act, they are OBLIGATED to report violations of the law. That's what he did.

            • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 2:33:42 PM

              Apparently, it is a crime to report a crime. Unless you're Obama, then it's a crime to not report a crime.

              Basically, it appears that it is a crime to report a crime, if the crime in question was committed by a republican.

  • Posted By: loosegoose @ 12/15/2008 3:03:52 AM

    When a person swears to uphold the Constitution, that is the person's prime directive. If the government chooses to abuse its power, then that person is obligated to reveal it. Since the A-G's office was in on the abuse, he had no where else to turn but to the press.
    The Nazi war crimes trials confirmed that our ideals of justice make it inherent upon individuals to speak out when abuses are discovered. If the press is the only outlet, then so be it. We lose the war on terroism if we give up the rights to privacy due all citizens regardless of the potential danger, mind you that's POTENTIAL danger.
    Therefore, it takes enlightened citizens with a conscience to do the "right thing" even when it's contrary to any oaths taken. That's how heroes are made.

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/15/2008 8:39:38 PM

      Nowhere else to turn, hah? What about, for example, Senate Judicial Cometee, he could complain to any ranked Democrat there. Or Democrats were not Bush haters 4 years ago?

  • Posted By: zeth006 @ 12/15/2008 2:47:53 AM

    What is wrong with you people? This guy just acted on a moral conviction! He did NOT pass secrets to our enemies and NO, he did not sell secrets to the KJB. "Bob in Poteet," you are clearly out of touch. This man is not a liar and he did not swear to help the NSA break the laws of the Constitution.

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/15/2008 8:36:32 PM

      Obviously, he did pass, only morons could not see it.

  • Posted By: yunparnlee @ 12/15/2008 8:35:27 PM

    Taiwan can arrest thier former President Mr. Chen for illegal action, can USA do the same thing? Can USA arrest George W. Bush?

  • Posted By: burbank @ 12/15/2008 1:15:26 AM

    If, as the article indicates, Tamm was never briefed on the NSA's operation that according to NEWSWEEK's article "seemed to be spying" on American citizens", how then, could he know the entire scope of the NSA" investigations? NEWSWEEK's article states that NSA activity was only instigated after information was gleaned from cell phones or computers taken from captured terorists. And that would indicate that the NSA would only have been monitoring INCOMMING phone calls to the US. After suspicious activity was confirmed by NSA intercepts, then and only then did the government "data mine" that information for other sources that could lead to terrorist machinations here in the US. Mr. Tamm would like you to believe that he acted out of concern for the safety of all Americans as he upheld the honor of the Constitution. Mr. Tamm is being disingenous. He acted out af a sense of misguided self-righteous patriotism that ended up being more self serving than patriotic. He deserves to be prosecuted for his error in judgement that cost the United States a great deal in giving terrorists advance knowledge on just how sophisticated we are in uncovering their diabolical machinations.

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/15/2008 8:33:43 PM

      Unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional. Hero, hero, hero. Every good citizen has right to violate any law if he things the Consitution is in danger. By the way, always was a good excuse for mass-murderers.

  • Posted By: yunparnlee @ 12/15/2008 8:33:22 PM

    Taiwan can arrest their former President Mr. Chen for illegal things, What about USA? Can USA justice arrest George W. Bush?

  • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/14/2008 11:35:55 PM

    it is interesting if some agency will get public opinion is he a hero or a criminal? From the public reaction 4 years ago, it seems that 70% will say "criminal".

    • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:35:52 PM

      "The public" has no idea what their rights are, let alone when they're being violated. Most people think a "criminal" deserves anything coming to him, and are shocked to realize that the Founding Fathers explicitly gave "criminals" rights.

      Heck, "the public" still thinks Bush is their "Commander in Chief," without realizing that this only applies if you're *in the military*, and that to the rest of us, he's just another citizen still bound, in theory at least, to the same laws we all have to follow.

      "The public" is clueless and quite probably the worst guides to democracy you could find. Remember, "the public" -- the same public that now overwhelmingly opposes the Iraq war and thinks it was a mistake -- was hugely in favor of war with Iraq when it was about vengeance and nobody thought our soldiers might actually be in harm's way.

      • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/15/2008 8:29:58 PM

        To follow your logic, "public" elected Obama by mistake, they were duped.

  • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 12:24:55 PM

    ". Agents have raided his house, hauled away personal possessions and grilled his wife, a teenage daughter and a grown son. ."

    Harrassing his teenage daughter? Some brave lads.

    • Posted By: RichinNH @ 12/15/2008 1:07:02 PM

      Like you said, HB, either we are a country of laws and enforce the rule of law or not. Well, he in fact broke the law ??? simple as that and now he must pay the Piper. Because he has a security clearance and decided to breach that trust, those who have entrusted him now must quickly unravel and assess what else he has done that might affect real live people: citizens, soldiers and agents that dangle on the end of those threads that Mr Tamm decided to pull. It is difficult to feel sorry for him: he is a perpetrator (thought I might spell it differently) and certainly not a victim.

      • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 1:23:24 PM

        "Like you said, HB, either we are a country of laws and enforce the rule of law or not. Well, he in fact broke the law ??? simple as that and now he must pay the Piper. "

        And which laws did his teenage daughter break? Of what possible use was grilling her, other than as a jack-booted attempt at intimidating him? If you think that retribution against a man's children for his actions is justifiable, as you obviously do, then America has sunk to a new low, indeed.

        • Posted By: RichinNH @ 12/15/2008 1:45:52 PM

          You???re watching too much TV HB and unfortunately drawing some very bold and unfounded conclusions on America from what you ???witness??? both from afar and via questionable media sources. Instead of conjuring up some over-played storm-trooper image on the groundless harassment of his daughter, try instead to put it in terms similar to our prosecution of OJ Simpson as this is a more accurate metric for how we Yanks go to considerable length (and cost) to ensure every benefit is extended a suspect or defendant. All because we do in fact believe in the rule of law and it is alive and well in our judicial process governing the conduct of search warrants and the lot. Please spare me all the anecdotal angst suffered by his family as the intelligence conducts a legal search ??? unfortunately, it comes with the job and he knows this even though to someone like you this must appear foreign and unfair. Again, this is the rubber meeting the road and freedom really means freedom for Mr Tamm ??? if he didn???t want to subject his family to this level of scrutiny, then he should have played by the rules not created his own that have zero oversight.

          • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 1:49:55 PM

            "if he didn???t want to subject his family to this level of scrutiny, then he should have played by the rules not created his own that have zero oversight. "

            Disregard my question. By your own words, you DO support retribution inflicted on the man's child for his actions.

            Disgusting.

            • Posted By: standingwave @ 12/15/2008 8:20:59 PM

              What's with all the stupid,annoying and idiotic question marks???????????

            • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:11:37 PM

              My god, what is WRONG with you?

              This is the man's DAUGHTER who's being harassed. Whether Tamm is a hero or a crook, his daughter is innocent.

              Your beliefs are nauseating. I really hope most Americans don't think this way, or liberty is well and truly dead.

              • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:44:15 PM

                The Newsweek forum doesn't always make it obvious which Reply button replies to which, sorry. If that wasn't clear HB, my response was to RichinNH, not to you.

            • Posted By: summer4077 @ 12/15/2008 2:16:23 PM

              Not all Americans think like him, HB. It's kind of sad that someone is so staunchly pro-Bush that he finds fault with someone who did the ethical thing. Of course, after 8 years under a decidedly unethical administration, maybe he can't tell the difference anymore. I have a feeling that much much more is going to come out about the corrupt Bush administration in the coming months. His reign of terror over the American people is over.

              • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 2:30:56 PM

                "Not all Americans think like him, HB. "

                Oh, I'm aware of that. I spend a great deal of time in the USA, and I love the American people. They are, for the most part, honest, welcoming, and funny.

                However, recently, the American people have put up with things that would have given your founders apoplexy, which is bad, but not unheard of. It's those that think that these things are right and good that would make James Madison puke all over his shoe buckles.

                History has shown that the American people can be the bravest people on Earth, when they have a mind to be. I wish they'd demonstrate that a little more these days.

            • Posted By: RichinNH @ 12/15/2008 2:18:15 PM

              HB, go back to the whole Rule of Law piece - you sounded more intelligent then. Now you???ve returned to inserting my comments on the front end and attaching your conclusion to try and make some point that honestly escapes me. You are no longer arguing my ideas or opinion, but your own. So, have at it, but perhaps you should scrutinize the media source to understand what grilled really means instead of gobbling it down hook, line and sinker and making it mean what you want it to mean ??? something so outrageous that it makes proving your point obvious. To allege that someone mishandled a child during the search of her parent???s home is quite an accusation. Have you grown accustom to simply leveling charges at us not bothering the nasty details that some of what you say is factually wrong? It seems you???re more content in putting the onus on us Yanks to clear our name? Sorry, your favor is something we do not seek and after losing enough of our lads pulling your fat from the fire ??? nothing want. We simply do the opposite here where you???re innocent until proven guilty.

              • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 2:27:44 PM

                The article says that "grilling" of the daughter took place. You are saying that it was no big deal. Your evidence is what? That an administration that has had no problems with brutality would not do such a thing? Do you have actual evidence countering the article?

                In addition, you excused the behavior shown to the daughter by stating that "then he shouldn't have done it", or words to that effect. You, sir, might have a bright career in North Korea.

          • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 1:48:51 PM

            Angst? The article states that the daughter was "grilled". Do you, or do you not, support that?

  • Posted By: glad_dad @ 12/15/2008 7:33:54 PM

    Mr. Tamm like any other citizen is free to follow the dictates of his own conscience, but he must then also be prepared to take the legal consequences of violating their oath to preserve secret information.

  • Posted By: John Morrissey @ 12/15/2008 7:29:50 PM

    I would be interested in Mr Gardockis answers to the question s I posed in my earlier post.(anyone who defends Mr Tamm is also welcome to enter their answers.)

  • Posted By: Galasso @ 12/15/2008 6:57:45 PM

    Sppooo: Thank you for your support. Tamm, however, is not a hero or a patriot. He's a 56 year old government worker who decided to fall on his sword without any regard for the consequences. His own personal reputation is of no consequence to the people who take the risks in the business of defending the country - he can make as big a spectacle of himself as he needs to at this stage of his life - but the collateral damage and the interruption of compartmented operations is a concern to all of us. This kind of self-centered, reckless behavior - calling the most leftist newspaper in the US in a fit of pique because one disagrees with policy or "senses" something is wrong with that policy is a huge concern to those who have to deal with the aftermath. I sincerely hope he gets the maximum criminal penalty for breaking his trust. Both intel committees in the House and Senate are briefed on the activities of all the three letter agencies and Tamm had no professional standing in any of this. He was not "read in". It was extraordinary bad judgment and an egregious error.. He made a decision to make public something that he couldn't articulate or evaluate. That is not only unprofessional - it's just plain stupid.

  • Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/14/2008 4:05:23 PM

    Can you guys who support sneak and peek tell me how many people you've actually caught with this wiretapping? Other than Elliott Spitzer?

    • Posted By: Shanshayla @ 12/14/2008 4:11:33 PM

      Tons... the most recent was a few days ago, the Illinois Governor himself. Do a search... I pulled up 288,000 entries.

      • Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 12/14/2008 8:02:22 PM

        And only God (or Allah) knows how many Americans are alive today because of it.

        • Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/15/2008 6:50:23 PM

          Because of Rod Blagojevich? Really?

          "I pulled up 288,000 entries" - web pages? Or people? We haven't detained three hundred thousand people via wiretap information.

          And regarding Rod the Clod, the authorities had their warrants, as far as I understand it. And yet they still caught him, somehow.

  • Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/15/2008 2:41:06 PM

    I've spent a lot of years now yearning for justice on the crimes of Iraq...what I'm starting to believe is that maybe it's been taking place as we speak.

    I spent a year of my life consumed with anger for somebody. It destroyed me mentally. That year was agony. And it led to other consequences besides psychological ones as well, later. It makes me think that sometimes thoughts and actions are their own karma.

    I think it's on all of us who believe in due process and human rights to stop hating our ideological opponents and to have some sort of compassion for them instead. We tend to wish hell on them - but lot of the people you disagree with are probably already experiencing hells of greater torment than people can probably understand, no matter who you are. They may even be experiencing hells that are more than you could understand or bear.

    The year I spent in psychic Hell was probably punishment enough in more for the thoughts and feelings I couldn't control. I have to think, for those who've spent the last six years consumed with hatred and anger, it's been the same. Maybe what I need to do is start wishing them well instead - perhaps if things were better, the hatreds would subside.

  • Posted By: vvm77 @ 12/14/2008 10:35:39 PM

    Thank God somebody thinks the Constitution should be upheld! He should be rewarded for this. Go live in China if you want your government to go unchecked and your Constitutional rights to mean nothing!

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/14/2008 11:20:07 PM

      Yes, disregard other laws and security, help our enemies but preserve the Constitution, by the way keeping youself safe. He definitely hoped to avoid retributions which legal steps could cause. Legal steps were fangerous for his career, illegal ones seemed to be safe for him, screw other people lives. What a hero.

      • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 6:00:50 PM

        If we torch the Constitution, our enemies have *won*. That's what all you chickenhawks seem to forget.

        "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

      • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 11:32:13 AM

        "help our enemies but preserve the Constitution"

        Assuming you had to make the choice, would you uphold the constitution, or not?

  • Posted By: John Morrissey @ 12/15/2008 5:59:53 PM

    ouroborous:assertions of incompetence in your opponent in a debate("your arguements are leaky") usually signals an inability to marshall logic to the task you have set.Let me ask you ,Are there secrets a government is justified in keeping in order to protect is citizens?If so ,is any citizen whose duties include knowledge of these secrets free to reveal these secrets if he believes this secrecy is unjustified?If you say yes to both these,then how does a government protect such secrets, particularly where there is compelling evidence that failure to maintain that secrecy could cause death and destruction to its citizens?

  • Posted By: John Maxwell @ 12/14/2008 10:52:51 PM

    DOJ swept it under the carpet. No one had the cojones to stand up. They all need to come to work in a dress........no offense meant to the real ladies of America.

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/14/2008 11:01:57 PM

      GOP? It were Democrats who prefered to "forget" it (they voted to make it legal after the fact, and, being in power in Congress, did not initialted a single investigation), because americans were glad to learn that their goverment indeed took care of their safety. Till that point people thought that only miracle had saved them from another Al Qaida big bang, Bush administration was too secretive about their success.

      • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:59:44 PM

        You are right about one thing: the Democrats are also culpable in this comedy of errors. In my dream world, Bush, Cheney, Addington, Yoo, and a few other choice neo-cons would be in prison for a long, long time because of this -- but so would Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi.

  • Posted By: Thumbs @ 12/14/2008 11:20:19 PM


    Tamm is a hero, dammit, and it's a lie to say otherwise.

    And if anyone thinks what Tamm did "tipped off" Al Qaeda, they're morons because I don't think AQ is that stupid to believe they aren't being surveilled. And Bush hasn't "protected us." It was under HIS watch that we were attacked and he had many indications an attack was coming and did NOTHING. I repeat... NOTHING.

    Tamm is a HERO.

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 12/14/2008 11:32:13 PM

      Why do you think Bush wanted keep going with dubious procedure? Because it was very effective, idiot. Terrorists rely very much on our laws, they know that such "heroes" will not let us keep secret ones in secret.

      • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:58:35 PM

        Clearly my habit of wearing a tinfoil hat has protected the earth from asteroid strikes because look, I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, and look, we haven't been struck by a meteor!

        The EXACT same argument as your "we haven't been attacked again and we've got this illegal spying going on, so it must be working!" Completely ignores all the other facts (like, maybe, terrorist attacks are very rare and we just haven't had one *yet*), and shall henceforth be known as the "tinfoil hat" argument.

        Also ignores the fact that some sources (c.f. Wired Magazine's reporting on "Echelon") say that we were doing this, or trying to do this, long before 9/11 -- which, if true, means that all of our vaunted "SIGINT" did precisely nothing to prevent the most devastating attack on American soil in history. No, no, reality has, as Stephen Colbert says, a well known liberal bias.

        Oy. If this is what passes for thinking in our intelligence agencies, we're well and truly... um... buggered.

      • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 9:24:39 AM

        Okay, Bighappy. But then stop pretending you're in a constitutional republic.

  • Posted By: Front Porch Discussions666 @ 12/15/2008 7:41:33 AM

    Every US citizen has a duty to expose illegal activities inside or outside of government. To create chang within the "system", Tamm needed whatever protection he could garner from The Times article. If Tamm would have attempted to resolve this "administrativly" ( as Richin NH proposes) he would have been threatened and over time suffered the same legal assaults he is now experiencing without any recourse or support. His chain of command would have crushed him using a broad range of conventional personnel strategies.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 8:35:21 AM

      This is correct.

      An out of control government is more dangerous to the republic than any terrorist.

      • Posted By: Shanshayla @ 12/15/2008 10:15:30 AM

        Wow, Bush wants to intercept international calls from terrorists, which has yet to be proven illegal, and you're telling us the entire government is out of control? It may be out of control, but that isn't why! lol

        • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 11:28:00 AM

          From the article:

          "Tamm stumbled upon the existence of a highly classified National Security Agency program that seemed to be eavesdropping on U.S. citizens. The unit had special rules that appeared to be hiding the NSA activities from a panel of federal judges who are required to approve such surveillance. "

          You were saying?

          • Posted By: Shanshayla @ 12/15/2008 2:15:29 PM

            Why is Bush not been impeached yet? And because of this the entire government is out of control.

            • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 4:26:05 PM

              You are right: the entire government is out of control -- the Executive branch for its brazen, unconstitutional lawlessness, and the Legislative branch for its utter inability to observe THEIR oath of office and investigate (and if necessary, impeach) the Executive officials involved. And yes, I include in that litany the congressional Democrats who were too spineless (or too complicit) to stand up for what they believed.

              Note that it's not only been Democrats who have opposed this "wild west" administration; a few courageous Republicans have, too. Sadly, not enough.

              Mann is a hero. He will be jailed for it, but he's a hero.

              • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:52:49 PM

                Er, Tamm, not Mann.

                Why can't I seem to get that right? grrr...

            • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 2:32:27 PM

              Why hasn't Bush been impeached? Why, because for 5 years he had a republican congress, and then he had a docile democratic congress. If either party had a hair on their ***, he would have been sent packing years ago.

        • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 11:26:20 AM

          "Wow, Bush wants to intercept international calls from terrorists"

          If that's all he was doing, the FISA laws are already in place. The FISA court is secret, and warrants can be obtained after the fact. Given that, there is no reasonable need for the justice department to push the envelope.

    • Posted By: RichinNH @ 12/15/2008 8:50:07 AM

      He He garners zero protection from the Times ??? other than some Deepthroat fantasy in his own mind. It is quite a leap to buy into your If/then conclusion ??? simply put: if he had used the processes that has been in place for some 40 yrs (at least since the Church proceedings) he could have effectively raised his concerns for a program that he admittedly lacked a fundamental perspective over purpose, process, methods as well as any direct decision-making responsibilities. If he had just done that, then NO, he wouldn't be suffering the same legal issues he now faces, which are most appropriate for his security breach.

  • Posted By: shaysite @ 12/15/2008 12:44:40 PM

    He couldn't possibly be a traitor. We should never allow the enemies of liberty to make us forget that the government officials of this Republic swear an oath to the Constitution, NOT to the President or any other individual. It is to the Constitution that he owed his first loyalty and he met that charge. Therefore he's a hero and his persecutors are the traitors trying to destroy the republic in favor of a dictatorship.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 12:53:58 PM

      Well said. Nobody should ever forget that freedom is not a political means, but rather a political end. In fact, it is the highest end, over and above concerns such as "safety" and "national security".

      • Posted By: RichinNH @ 12/15/2008 1:11:04 PM

        Again, words are great for the freshmen class, but as we all witnessed first-hand in Iraq, without the safety and security you mention, you don't get a political beginning or end.

        • Posted By: ouroborous @ 12/15/2008 5:43:22 PM

          Most independent studies (although I'm sure you'll cite the words "liberal" and "conspiracy" in your response) have indicated that the war in Iraq has made Americans, at least, *less* secure than ever before, by re-invigorating al Qaeda and giving extremist groups a breeding ground after Afghanistan.

          In your immortal leader's words: Mission Accomplished!

        • Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/15/2008 1:43:57 PM

          Speaking of which, they haven't had any due process over there. Coincidence?

        • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/15/2008 1:20:45 PM

          Bollocks. We've gone the route you're going over here and we're still not safe, as witnessed by the tube (you'd say subway) attack.

          And if liberty is from a "freshman class", then I am at least in good company. Your Patrick Henry said "give me liberty or give me death" when he was facing the very real and immediate prospect of a noose, not some nebulous terrorist threat. Of course, if he were alive in America today, he'd be on the No Fly List, and your FBI would be listening in on his calls. Why? Because unlike 70% of Americans today, he had the stones to choose freedom over fear.

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