Not Your Dad's Divorce

I wanted to comment on "Natrone@ 12/16/2008 1:07:59 PM. I'm truly happy that you you ultimately got the custody you wanted and felt the Judge was fair. Personally, I don't see the fairness of having to spend five years, a ton of money and take incompetent Dad101 classes to prove you capable of being a father to your child. Do you really feel you were not competent five years ago. I believe in not giving up and I havent given up for a 5 years but I will not sacrifice my right by law to be a father to my children by jumping through the family court circus hoops. Why did you have to fight? My guess is that your ex may have been the person claiming you were unfitt. How long do we jump hoops and is that a true victory or an injustice to fathers. Again, I'm truly happy for you but I personally couldn't and can't allow the injustices of Family Court continue without knowing I'm trying to fix the broken, unjust system and not allowing this Circus to go on unnoticed.

Everything you read about divorces and child custody, etc. only deals with situations where dad is paying mom money. What about those cases where the man makes such a smaller amount of money, even though child responsibilities were shared during the marriage, and custody is split 50/50 and the WOMAN has to pay the MAN? Frankly, I get that the norm is what is written about, but people (and writers) need to realize women are perfectly capable of having a successful career and being a successful mom, resulting in them bearing the brunt of child support. Get off the poor pitiful man routine already!

I was sitting here reading this and some of it disturbs me greatly as there is such a shortage of personal accountability in this country. Before anyone goes off on how I don't know what I'm talking about I would like to say I'm a divorced dad and a step dad. I have spent over 30,000 fighting a legal battle with my step kids father and almost the same amount in court battles with my ex-wife. The problem in both of these cases is that there is no personal accountability and if we all as parents could take a step back and ask our selves what have we done or what could we do to improve this situation instead of just focusing on what the other person has done wrong. Many of these issues would work themselves out. I've read many of these posts where it starts out about the kids and immediatly turns to "she did this to me". I know that there are problem parents out there with bad intentions but so many times I see the good parent resort to the others tactics which makes you no better then the other person. "To thine own self be true" because at the end of the day we can only change our selves and just have to belive that there is a balance in this world (I read refernces to OJ and look where he is now).

I realize that we all miss our kids and want more visitation with them but to often the kids become the victims in the parents personal attacks and feel torn. For all you dads out there remember when you were a kid and somebody said something about your MOM how did you react? Well your kids feel the same way even if they tell you differntly.

Granted there are evil moms and dads out there and I'm not saying in any way to give up the fight!!! always fight for your kids but please do it in a way that you would want someone to treat your parents and I think you will handle things correctly.

Remember in the end what comes around goes around and even if it's not today oneday the other person given enough rope will hang themselves. Take all that negative passion and put it towards a good cause like changeing the laws. So many people are quick to blame the system but are doing nothing to change it.

This was just my little Blah and I would also like to say as a side note that after 1 year straight of trials, hearings and excessive attorney fees just taking the high road and being truthful paid off, we just won our court case for custody.

The system is sooo skewed toward the Mother that it is nearly impossible for a Father to get fair treatment. The "Family Law Master" had my now ex-wife in tears because he was trying so hard to convince her that she should have full custody and maximum child support. We decided that WE wanted to dictate the rules, not the state. So, we have Joint Legal custody, and I have sole physical custody. Even though, our son lives with her through the week, and goes to school from her house, and I have him every weekend, and any other time it makes sense to us. To outward apperances, like to teachers and Church members, it seems that she has custody. But, the reality is that I do. Even so, I get a notice from the State about every 3 years or so, saying that they are suing me for child support. The State is in no way supporting our son. He is covered under my insurance and nobody is on Welfare or Food Stamps, etc. They still are determined to "come after me". My ex has to physically go into the Child Services office and sign paperwork again saying that she does not want to sue me for support. I of course, pay my share on clothes, medical, school lunches and pictures, etc. Either I pay a bill, or she pays and I give her half back. So that we end up actually sharing the cost of raising our child. Rather than her trying to use him as a "cash cow", as I know so many others do (and the State encourages them).

The bottom line is that there are deadbeat parents as members of both genders. However, the courts only are interested in going after fathers, dead beat or otherwise. I???m a retired decorated soldier, established businessman, who conducts himself with honor and integrity with anything that I do. Yet, I have been blocked from being in involved in my son???s life. My son is now two months shy of his 11th birthday and I have been fling motions in the Virginia Fairfax county family court for 9 years of his life to enforce my visitation schedule. His mother, my ex-wife, plays games with my visitation knowing the courts will not hold her accountable. My ex is emotionally unstable and was moving our son every six months to a year. So I bought a house for them to live in a mere five minute drive from my home so I could be involved with my son. This woman still kept me from my son, making excuses when it was time or just not being available on my weekend. Her favorite words were ???Take me to court.??? Because she knew all she had to say in court is that it was I who never showed up. She tells our son the same. I constantly had to explain to my son that I did show up to get him. The family court system was a hostile environment the first moment I stepped foot in a courtroom for a hearing to enforce my rights. Two judges over an eight year period treated me as though I was the biggest sleaze ball criminal in the city. They denied my right to be involved with my son. Over the years the judges ignored all the facts I displayed, they ignored my witnesses. Finally I filed for full custody. After I spent nearly $50,000 in 2006 the coward judge threw out my case because the family evaluator???s report was not ready. The $20k to the evaluator was down the drain. Six months later I suffered a stress induced stroke and was hospitalized and unable to work for several months. For the first time I fell behind on child support. Over the years I had paid more than 3x the amount ordered by the court. Yet when I fell ill and unable to keep up the same level of support I was jailed (while still recovering from my stroke) by the same judge who had witnessed my track record for four years. As of this writing I have not seen my son, nor do I have the money or energy to search for him. No one is interested in helping a father and his child. I???ve been to the police who say I can???t prove a crime took place. I???ve contacted The Washington Post who state they cannot write a story because the judge who jailed me is retired. I filed a complaint with the US Justice Dept who responded they have no jurisdiction over local courts. I filed a complaint with the Virginia Justice Dept, who found no misconduct by the judges. Had I not experienced this first hand, I wouldn???t believe such a thing could happen in America and no one care. Perhaps President-elect Obama, who grew up fatherless will overhaul the entire family court system.

when my ex-wife and i divorced in the late 90's, the arrangement was i had our children every Friday night through Sunday afternoon. it was not what i wanted but it was best to help maintain the schedules of the kids and that was for the best. my kids were only 5 and 3 at the time. today they are 16 and 14 and have lived with me 5 days a week for the past 5 years. it was done gradually, again to best meet the needs of the kids schedules, but more importantly it was done with out having to go to court, hiring a lawyer, or any arguments or bitterness, well maybe a little bitterness.
Being divorced with kids is just like being in a rocky marriage but living apart from one another. It is nice to see that some more people are getting the understanding that the children should live with the parent that can provide the most stable and nurturing environment but both parents need to be civil and involved. getting a divorce from your spouse is no excuse to divorce your children or shrug your parental duty.

I am not sure where you are getting your facts from but certainly not New York. It is common knowledge that the order of custody is mother, father, maternal grandparents, paternal grandparents. Short of having a needle in your arm or proof of being an alcoholic custody always falls to the mother. Equal Rights for Fathers was formed in NYS to combat this prejudice. New York also does not look at who was the primary care giver during the marriage, it also adopted the Child Support Standard Act which also ignores the amount of time a father spends with his children in contrast to the support payment. Since custody is 99% given to the mother anyways, its a moot issue. The article state that "Most men want a fair shake", I say ALL men wnat a fair shake. But with custody in NY being pre-defined already, men here will never get a fair shake

My ex husband and I have this arrangement and have had it since our divorce 8 years ago. Like most divorces, ours was nasty and brutal on both parts. We both have our faults and we both were hurt but in the end it came down to the best interest of our son. My son knows that his Mom and Dad love him and we both participate in all his activities. Birthdays are done with the whole family (to our son it's one big family) and we work out the holidays, for example, Christmas Eve at Dad's this year and around noon I'll get him for the rest of day. We live 2 minutes from each other so transportation and time is not an issue. Our son loves both parents and this arrangement works. It took time and patience at the beginning but now it's just normal for us. The secret is to always put your child first.

If, as you say, 27.7% of custodial mothers live below the poverty line, perhaps they shouldn't be 'custodial' - place children where the income is for a while. Without income from childsupport, without the foodstamps, without the excuses, maybe she'll go out and earn her diploma and get a job and be capable of parenting a generation that doesn't think kids are a funny funny toy. The author seems surprised that joint custody seemed like a commitment...well, duh - the commitment was having a child and if you weren't prepared for that commitment you should not have had the children.

OMG - What a nerve this touches:

While I don't deny abuse happens in this world, I believe the amount of 'alleged' abuse & outright false allegations (lies) is a far greater reality.

Time after time I've spoken with men who have been falsely accused of abuse for one simple reason... children = money to their mother. False allegations of abuse are used to gain a Restraining Order / OFP (Order for Protection). This serves many purposes:
??? It gets the father (typically) out of the house
??? It starts the money clock on the amount the mother (typically) will receive
??? It places the father (typically) at a legal disadvantage having to face a Judge after having been arrested and thrown in jail
??? It immediately sets up a physical and legal barrier between the alleged abuser (typically the father), and his children, with the mother (typically) and her attorney in absolute control of access to the children (ie: hostages)
??? Because of the link between the Violence against Women???s Act and an OFP ??? the father (typically) is also now precluded from participating in some activities deemed less than desirable by many (not all) women ??? such as hunting, and shooting sports. How???d you like to be a father and try explaining that to your four sons?
??? The father (typically) must now attempt to establish a new residence and life. No forewarning. No preparation. No planning. How? His life has just been totally up-ended ??? his home ??? his children ??? his tools to maintain his vehicle ??? his computer to continue school / re-education, to communicate with relatives, friends, the world ??? all locked up and unavailable.
??? I???ve seen it (OFP) used before (my case), and after (close friend) the separation. No matter when, it is dastardly... and unfortunately, effective. It is like an Atom bomb being dropped squarely on the head of the father (typically). Often it???s used to skew the end result... custody & money.
??? OFPs are given out like candy ??? most often through Ex-Parte* meetings between the Judge, and a well-coached and rehearsed** mother (typically).
o *Ex-Parte = One-sided court hearing that does not include any input or testimony whatsoever from the alleged abuser (typically the father)
o **Coaching is readily available to virtually any woman seeking advice from so-called Domestic Violence Prevention groups and their many satellite outreach offices ??? often entrenched right there along with the local City / County Government offices.
??? I???ve spoken to police officers who indicated that members of the police and sheriffs office have been blackmailed with threats of lawsuits if they (members of the so-called Domestic Violence Prevention Group) are not called into every possible Domestic situation.
??? As a father ??? I was denied equal access (based on my gender) to such support services.

There is too much generalizing in this forum. I, myself, can only speak from what I am going through right now. My ex told my kids, "I will no longer be your father, only your provider. I am going to live my last days the way I have always wanted and that is playing computer games and doing porn. If you have any needs, you will have to go to your mother." That is exactly what he did. We lived like that for three years. He is still alive and has made our lives an absolute nightmare. He insisted that our divorce go all the way to trial and refused to settle out of court. I tried twice and our daughter even tried to get him to settle. We have spent nearly $50,000. He has lied and deceived our children repeatedly. He has told them that it is because of the divorce there is no money for their college. We never set up any college accts. Instead he set up 4 retirement accts (he still has.) He and his lawyer forced us out of our house and I was made to accept a low offer on our home. They threatened to take me to court and ask the judge to grant my ex with legal authority to do whatever he wanted with our home plus make me pay all fees. He was even doing porn on his government computer (he is a computer contractor at an army post) on government time for years. He got away with it. He is only paying a total of 18% of his pay to me for alimony & child support. I have been a stay-at-home mother for 21 years, have no education beyond high school, and have no experience. He has a master's degree in industrial engineering. He got the degree while we were married. Now I am expected to support myself and three kids. He doesn't even pay for our daughter's college tuition. He won't add her to his health insurance and she has had to go on welfare so she can get it (he makes $90,000). He refused to add me to his health insurance even though I told him that was having female problems and my back doctor suspected that was contributing to my lower back problems. An MRI done for my back already showed that there is something on one of my ovaries. I have no money and no way of getting the education I need to get a job that will help support us. My ex got EVERYTHING he asked for and then some. Before the trial we were required to go to a family mediator to come up with our own parenting plan. He willingly gave me sole custody of our youngest son. At the trial the judge took it away from me even though my ex didn't ask for it. We now have joint custody. But if I call my ex to discuss anything pertaining to our son or whatever, at a time when he says is too late, he has reported me to the police for harassment. I am required by the court to have my son involved in activities with other children since I homeschool. I have him in basketball and we don't get home until almost 10:00 pm. He already tried bringing me up on contempt of court charges, child abuse charges and now he is trying harassment. I shouldn't have to live like this.

It took many years and an eventual change of venue, but I now have half and half custody with my ex-wife with my youngest child who is 16 now. The anger and the hurt that my kids suffered because my ex-wife decided she was going to screw around with someone else and then fight and successfully get custody of our 3 children was entirely unfair to our children. The mental and emotional problems that my ex-wife had did not matter to the old fashioned and idiotic Judge Combs in NW Missouri no matter how many times her mental condition was brought to his attention. Luckily, the child all of this affected the most, now sees what caused the problems and who was to blame. Blame is not something that I use, but my children use. I am sad for my kids because they have had to deal with a parent who is bipolar and suicidal BUT that the court saw fit to be the primary custodian. Fathers matter and are just as important during the growing years of any child as that of any mother. Granted, either parent can be abusive or neglectful. I think the money aspect of child support and alimony should be done away with except with proven abuse and neglect. The common sense of the courts fail all to often.

THIS IS THE REALITY--------------FAMILY COURT AND CHILD SUPPORT ARE DESTROYING FAMILY LIVES,WOMENS USE ARE KIDS HAS A WEAPON AND IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY JUST THE MONEY,LOOK HOW MANY GUYS GOING INSANE WHEN THE COURT SYSTEMS TAKE THIERS KIDS AWAYS AND WOMEN NOTHING BUT LIES LIES LIES,THIS IS WHY THEY ENDUP DEAD,THE WOMAN,THE KIDS AND FINALLY THAT GUY KILLING HIM SELF.YOU THINK THE CHILD SUPPORT CARE OR THE JUDGES OR FAMILY COURT? THIS IS WHY CHANGE IS NEED TO BE MADE

I am one of those women who ended up sliding down the lifestyle scale. My child and I went from a 3 person household making approximately 70000 a year in a relatively inexpensive to line area, to a 2 person household making only 22000 (including support). My ex on the other hand wsent from a 3 person household making 70000 a year to a 2 person household 85% of the time making 88000 a year. My income went down 48000 with a loss of one person (my ex) and his went up 18000 again with a loss of one person 85% of the time. Most men who are concerned with fathers rights would say simply that father should then have custody. Why? Because I am poor? Because I was a sahm? How is this fair to the child?

What I don't find reflected in this artical is the reality of domestic violence. for over 20 years statistics have shown 1in 3 marriages involved domestic violence. We have known over 30 years that 1 in 4 little girls is sexualy abused. How do the new rules of clild custody protect children from being abused and or seeing there motner abused. Most estimates are that domestic violence is present in 50-60% of divorces. That is a big big elephant on the court house steps that you are working hard to ignore. Josephine form Seattle MA. ABS,

I have to say that I am unimpressed by the comments written here. Of course there are bad parents, both mothers and fathers. There are abusive parents, both mothers and fathers. There are also very controlling parents, both mothers and fathers. It can't be said that either one or the other is better or worse. I am 27 years old. My parents divorced when I was 14 years old. My dad got custody of myself and my older brother. My parents never even saw a judge. They had the whole thing written up how they wanted it to be and it was done. At the time I was mad. As a 14 year old girl in the mid-90's I thought it odd that my dad got custody. No one else I knew had their dad get full custody. In reality, my dad was the man for the job. I love my mom very much, but my dad was both mom and dad for us. He did most of the parenting up to that point. He was the glue that held everything together. In no way did my mom disappear. I could visit whenever I wanted to and call more often. She was always there when I needed her. She and dad (much to my annoyance) kept in close contact so each knew when assignments were due at school and when I was grounded. I never got away with anything.
Both parents have since remarried. I went from being the youngest of two to the second oldest of four to the third oldest of 13. I have four wonderful parents. The first Christmas I came home after moving thousands of miles away I could only make it to my mom's house, so my dad and step-mom came there for Christmas. My brother came up from Oregon and brought my dad's mom too. Heck, for Thanksgiving '07 I was at my step-mom's ex-husband's wife's parents (and my dad was there too). It was great. I know how lucky I am.
I am a teacher now and have to watch the pain and suffering of my students. I just want to tell the parents to suck it up and be parents together. I am not saying parents need to be best friends. I just know that if they get along it is so much easier for the kids.
I don't think it matters how much time is allotted by courts. I don't care who technically has custody. If a child has full access to both parents and the parents can be adults about it and get along, then it makes us as happy as we are going to be. It isn't perfect. It will always be hard. But it can never be said that it is always the dads who screw it up or only the moms who screw it up. It is the bad parents who make it so damn difficult.

Gary Nickelson made a gratuitous lawyerly misrepresentation of what the vast majority of men want when they find themselves needing a divorce lawyer. I have spent 20 years in divorce support work. The vast majority of men do not "want their kids half the time so they can pay half the support", rather, most men are horrified that their kids are being taken from them and ransomed for child support. States go out of the way designing their forms to keep visitation just below the child support credit threshold. Men often end up with full responsibility of kids for 29% of possible parenting time, but get no financial credit. They end up supporting the child twice.

The fact that 3 times more welfare mothers live below the poverty line is meaningless because it is not sampled across equivalent communities. Jocelyn Elise Crowley conflates the numbers conveniently to serve her feminist agenda. Most single mothers are poor because the men they refused to marry are also poor. 75% of poverty would disappear if mothers simply married the fathers of their children. The majority of single custodial fathers are in the middle and upper classes -- representing about 10% of all divorces.