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Picking Winners

The auto industry bailout may trigger a return to protectionism.

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  • Posted By: TRMCPilot @ 12/17/2008 2:06:33 PM

    It is totally insane to bailout the so called "Big 3" automakers. They are where they are for 1 simple reason; they are not building the best cars in the world. These companies were once great and did make some of the best cars on the planet. People all around the world would pay more for quality, they show that every day by buying cars from other manufactures that cost more. I once owned a 57 Chevy, a 60's corvette and the last American car I bought new was a 1994 Ford SHO. People paid more for these cars, because they were the best. I now own a Toyota Prius Hybrid, a Lexus SUV Hybrid and the SHO, but we mostly drive the Lexus. The Lexus has had only oil changes and tires and don't need Mr. Not-so-GoodWrench for excessively expensive maintenance. The Detroit Car companies are not only NOT building the best cars in the world, they are building worthless junk. They refuse to build any vehicles with Hybrid high gas mileage efficiency and have lost market share for this reason. Now the only logical course for their bad decisions is Chapter 11. And this doesn't mean they will cease to exist. Like the airline industry and others the Car companies will be forced to restructure and have to change their ways and start building quality cars that consumers will actually buy. If they refuse to restructure they shouldn't survive and wouldn't have survived even if they took & lost the Taxpayers money they want to bailout their incompetence.

  • Posted By: Trooper101st @ 12/17/2008 11:54:55 AM

    Why was it so easy for the Gov. to pony up $700BILLION to those FAT, BLOATED, S.O.B.s' but not give Detroit a measly $15BILLION? Those Kentucky Fried senators are trying to break the union, and the labor movement in general. So, you have an auto job in TN, but not the perks? Coz ur in a "right to work state", you made ur own bed, so quit whining. CORRUPT, GREEDY SENATORS. We should hang a few from lamposts as a warning. Starting with that smug p.o.s. CORKER. They were right, the South has risen-AGAIN.

  • Posted By: mTarkowski @ 12/16/2008 9:03:12 AM

    I have lived in Detroit for 50 years and have worked at the headquarters of GM, Ford, and Chrysler at different times in my career. Yes, they are monopolistic type companies who by their own hand are responsible for their current poor financial situation.

    My point is, it does not matter. Because whether it???s the autos in Detroit or the financials in New York we the regular people are going to suffer. Yes, the rich guys may have to cut back on their frills, but mostly everyone else will experience the real pain.

    Today it looks like the autos will take a fall and we all yell, ???Yes, it???s payback time!??? Unfortunately, history tells us one of the biggest reasons for the Great Depression is the government took a position of letting the market correct itself. I might want some pay back, but I do not want to stand in a bread line for 10 years because we let the autos fold. And when the autos are gone who will we rely on for manufacturing the Japanese and Mexico?
    I say let???s cut them a check to keep the doors open for a few months while we work together to figure out a plan that won???t put me us in the bread line. Please don???t tell me your area isn???t dependent on the autos, it???s not about that. Homes are being foreclosed all over the Country and the world economy is in jeopardy.

    • Posted By: zzynda @ 12/16/2008 10:55:04 PM

      I'm sorry to say this, but the Japanese auto model is the one that outcompetes the current U.S. model. Ford made the mistake of creating Ford Credit and agreeing to ridiculous ideas like "Job Banks." Chrysler got a bailout previously and here they are again. On top of it, they are owned by a private equity firm who won't invest their own money into Chrysler, so why should the taxpayer? They could give up a stock offering to raise capital, but they'd lose some of their ownership. And GM...GM hasn't made money on a car in years. In 2004 they were LOSING an average of about 2000 dollars for every vehicle sold in the U.S. Why should the taxpayer bail these companies out? Because the politicians and CEOs know what concessions need to be made? If the CEOs knew, they could sell their ideas to the private sector to get the loans. If the politicians knew, I'd be suprised, since most are actually dumb enough to think the depression was caused by anything other than the Fed loosening lending standards to create a bubble in the stock and housing markets, and then bursting the bubble by tightening up the money supply, increasing the lending standards to banks. We didn't get out of the depression because of the New Deal, we got out DESPITE the New Deal.

      Only in Chapter 11 will the companies get the protection from their creditors to make the changes that need to be made, and only there can they restructure contracts which drain the profitability of the companies. If you're looking for another 6 months of CM and Chrysler, then a bailout would be what you want, but if you want a long-term viable auto mobile industry, you have to restructure the companies under Chapter 11. I guess my frustration is that most people don't understand bankruptsy, because they all think in terms of "these companies will no longer exist if they go bankrupt." and if that was the case, we would have lost 75% of our airline companies after 9/11, but we have more than before, employing more people than before. Nevermind the immorality of a bailout, of robbing Americans of their hard earned wealth to give to the Auto Companies that couldn't fail more if they tried.

  • Posted By: Republican be gone @ 12/16/2008 4:58:12 PM

    Try using your caps lock a little less LIKEITIS and you won't give the internet impression of a raving maniac.

    Simply put, depressions are a part of pure capitalism and some government intervention is wise to avoid some of the nastier side effects.

    • Posted By: zzynda @ 12/16/2008 10:41:00 PM

      republican be gone, I'm sorry to say that I've never heard of a pure capitalist society ever having a recession. Our government has favored one industry or another since the 1790s, starting with banks (Central Bank), then military spending (2812), then trains (industrial "revolution"), then military spending (1860s), then banks (1880s-1908), then military spending (WW1), then banks (Fed 1914), then military spending (WW2), and since WW2, we have been in numerous wars with expanding government, nanny government, and government favoratism which distorts markets, like agriculture, military spending, and for the past 25 years, consumer spending. The government created lending standards and promises (fanny and freddie) that distorted consumer spending to create bubbles in the stock market, housing market, and tuition prices, all while creating inflation with all the new money. Sure the bubble "looks" like prosperity in the early stages like the 90s, but eventually the pendulum has to swing back the other way to cure the distortion. And lets face it. The CPI is a lie, and when real inflation is considered, consumers won't spend so much. If consumers aren't spending, then two things will happen (logically). The service sector economy will shrink vastly as the cost-benefit decreases, and american companies will look to sell abroad for their profits.

      What I am saying is that the only period in American History with pure capitalism was the greenback dollar system before we declared independence, and the economy was burdened by the King's intervention (taxes and regulation), and thus, we rebelled, at least according to Franklin and Jefferson.

      So really, I'd just like to know where you got this notion (be specific) that depressions are part of pure capitalism? If you can honestly think of one, I'd be pleased, because I've never heard of a pure capitalist society. 1980s and 1990s Hong Kong is as close as I can think of, and it's grown since its inception, hardly ever burdened by downturns, all of which belong to its neighbors.

  • Posted By: zzynda @ 12/16/2008 10:33:18 PM

    republican be gone, I'm sorry to say that I've never heard of a pure capitalist society ever having a recession. Our government has favored one industry or another since the 1790s, starting with banks (Central Bank), then military spending (2812), then trains (industrial "revolution"), then military spending (1860s), then banks (1880s-1908), then military spending (WW1), then banks (Fed 1914), then military spending (WW2), and since WW2, we have been in numerous wars with expanding government, nanny government, and government favoratism which distorts markets, like agriculture, military spending, and for the past 25 years, consumer spending. The government created lending standards and promises (fanny and freddie) that distorted consumer spending to create bubbles in the stock market, housing market, and tuition prices, all while creating inflation with all the new money. Sure the bubble "looks" like prosperity in the early stages like the 90s, but eventually the pendulum has to swing back the other way to cure the distortion. And lets face it. The CPI is a lie, and when real inflation is considered, consumers won't spend so much. If consumers aren't spending, then two things will happen (logically). The service sector economy will shrink vastly as the cost-benefit decreases, and american companies will look to sell abroad for their profits.

    What I am saying is that the only period in American History with pure capitalism was the greenback dollar system before we declared independence, and the economy was burdened by the King's intervention (taxes and regulation), and thus, we rebelled, at least according to Franklin and Jefferson.

    So really, I'd just like to know where you got this notion (be specific) that depressions are part of pure capitalism?

  • Posted By: davidwayneosedach @ 12/16/2008 5:55:05 PM

    Where do you give bailouts to beyond the Big Three? Airlines? Individual states? Recreational vehicle suppliers? The boating industry?

  • Posted By: Republican be gone @ 12/16/2008 4:55:56 PM

    Try using your caps lock a lttle less LIKEITIS

  • Posted By: mTarkowski @ 12/16/2008 9:03:32 AM

    I have lived in Detroit for 50 years and have worked at the headquarters of GM, Ford, and Chrysler at different times in my career. Yes, they are monopolistic type companies who by their own hand are responsible for their current poor financial situation.

    My point is, it does not matter. Because whether it???s the autos in Detroit or the financials in New York we the regular people are going to suffer. Yes, the rich guys may have to cut back on their frills, but mostly everyone else will experience the real pain.

    Today it looks like the autos will take a fall and we all yell, ???Yes, it???s payback time!??? Unfortunately, history tells us one of the biggest reasons for the Great Depression is the government took a position of letting the market correct itself. I might want some pay back, but I do not want to stand in a bread line for 10 years because we let the autos fold. And when the autos are gone who will we rely on for manufacturing the Japanese and Mexico?
    I say let???s cut them a check to keep the doors open for a few months while we work together to figure out a plan that won???t put me us in the bread line. Please don???t tell me your area isn???t dependent on the autos, it???s not about that. Homes are being foreclosed all over the Country and the world economy is in jeopardy.

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