The Good Book and Gay Marriage

Duke, you amaze me. On so many levels. But I think that the three main things which your (il)logic does not consider are:

1. Your sins of hatred towards your fellow man and judging others beggar belief. If you truly followed what your book of superstitions says, you would see that there is far more about loving people than hating them, and leaving judgment up to your god. In fact, you are a far greater sinner than any homosexual is as they were born that way, but your belief system is an evil lifestyle choice. Would that I believed in an afterlife as I would give anything to be at your judgment. To presume that you will go to "heaven" given your incredibly unchristian attitude to other innocent people - well, buddy, you've got it wrong there. You're going to hell. Just as your god doesn't need you to judge in his place, so too he doen't need you to tell us what you think he says.

2. For a so-called "religious leader" you actually show very little knowledge of how the bible has actually came to you, and how mistranslations have been informed by the homophobia of mere mortals. It always amuses me when religious people start talking about their bible as being the word of god. Which version? There are so many versions out there, each one translated to fulfil the ideology of a particular group. There isn't one. (eg. There is no word for homosexual or homosexuality in Greek, Herbew or Aramaic, the original languages of the bible. Yet I bet your bible has the word HOMOSEXUAL in it! How can this be? Maybe it's the homophobia of the translators again? Oh, then what happened to the "lietral" meaning of the bible?)

3. Your crusade to ban same-sex marriage seems a lot like mean-spirited homophobia to me. Indeed, if you don't believe in gay marraige, well simply don't marry a man! It's like saying that my religion doesn't allow me to eat pork, so no one can eat pork. What rubbish is this? Not everyone beilieves in your hateful version of christianity, so don't try and force on everyone. Go back into your hole and run your life according to the superstitious beliefs of a bronze age nomadic desert tribe, but let us get on with our lives and progress.

Duke, you amaze me. On so many levels. But I think that the three main things which your (il)logic does not consider are:

1. Your sins of hatred towards your fellow man and judging others beggar belief. If you truly followed what your book of superstitions says, you would see that there is far more about loving people than hating them, and leaving judgment up to your god. In fact, you are a far greater sinner than any homosexual is as they were born that way, but your belief system is an evil lifestyle choice. Would that I believed in an afterlife as I would give anything to be at your judgment. To presume that you will go to "heaven" given your incredibly unchristian attitude to other innocent people - well, buddy, you've got it wrong there. You're going to hell. Just as your god doesn't need you to judge in his place, so too he doen't need you to tell us what you think he says.

2. For a so-called "religious leader" you actually show very little knowledge of how the bible has actually came to you, and how mistranslations have been informed by the homophobia of mere mortals. It always amuses me when religious people start talking about their bible as being the word of god. Which version? There are so many versions out there, each one translated to fulfil the ideology of a particular group. There isn't one. (eg. There is no word for homosexual or homosexuality in Greek, Herbew or Aramaic, the original languages of the bible. Yet I bet your bible has the word HOMOSEXUAL in it! How can this be? Maybe it's the homophobia of the translators again? Oh, then what happened to the "lietral" meaning of the bible?)

3. Your crusade to ban same-sex marriage seems a lot like mean-spirited homophobia to me. Indeed, if you don't believe in gay marraige, well simply don't marry a man! It's like saying that my religion doesn't allow me to eat pork, so no one can eat pork. What rubbish is this? Not everyone beilieves in your hateful version of christianity, so don't try and force on everyone. Go back into your hole and run your life according to the superstitious beliefs of a bronze age nomadic desert tribe, but let us get on with our lives and progress.

Those who oppose same-sex marriage seem never to consider the consequeses of their opposition.
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When St. Paul said that those who cannot abstain from sex should marry, he was obviousy recognizing that some people can abstain from sex and that come cannot abstain from sex. That makes it clear that a person whose romantic interest is only in the same sex and cannot abstain from sex is in an impossible position. A gay man or woman who can neither marry nor abstain from sex will obviously have sex outside of marriage. With no social or institutional support for same-sex marriage, that all to often results in extreme promiscuity since stable same-sex relationships are discouraged. Thus, one must consider whether it is better to encourage people, by permitting same-sex marriage, to have stable same sex relationships, or by proscribing same-sex marriage, to encourage promiscuity, while also recognizing that the AIDS epedemic is driven by promiscuity. Also, since the closest human relationships include sex, a person who abstains from sex is unlikely to have a close relationship with anyone and is likely to live alone. Any living relationship other than living alone would likely be seen as unacceptable.
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Also consider all the things proscribed by the Bible, such as wearing garments made from 2 kinds of material, receiving interest on money, planting a field with 2 kinds of seed, permitting 2 different kinds of animal to mate, etc. People who permit the above are being inconsistant of they also proscribe same-sex relationships. They seem unable to state clear and objective criteria to determine which Biblical rules we have to follow and which rules we need not follow. As for me, I go by the Summary of the Law which, greatly condensed, is to love and respect God and to love one's neighbor. Any rule that is not directly related to the Summary of the Law, in my opinion, need not be followed.

do not forget that the government can do only what the constitution states; everything else is left for the people to vote for what they want. Because of that, it would be best for homosexuals to not look towards the government but towards the people of the United States of America. Also do not forget that the Bible's prinicipals WERE used as the foundation for what our nation is today; and lets not forget that our nation is the most unique and diversly free of all. People want to always say that the Bible has nothing to do with our nation when, in fact, history states otherwise. -Ariel W.,15

What many US readers fail to understand is that the United States is one of the few Western countries that permits clergy to perform what is, and should be, a strictly legal function. In the United Kingdom, for example, a couple applies for a marriage license and then goes to the Registry Office where the Registrar performs the CIVIL marriage. At that point, in the eyes of the law, the couple is married. If they then wish to enter into HOLY MATRIMONY, they would then continue on and have a church service. If they have only the church service they are not married in the eyes of the law. In talking about "Gay" Marriage in the US, we need to make the distinction between a CIVIL marriage and HOLY MATRIMONY. CIVIL marriage should be open to all committed couples and HOLY MATRIMONY should be at the discretion of the couple's clergy person / faith tradition.

I am not a priest or a theologian, but I wish to focus my attention on God's love preached by Jesus, especially against
any conventionalism which might be harmful for this purpose. Whatever somebody might legitimately think, I say: beware
not to be too dogmatic and not to look too much to what is formal, pay attention instead to whatever can help bring peace,
love and friendship. By my own I agree with the idea that nowadays life is different and religion should be taught with a modern language. Tony

This has got to be one of the more ridiculous debates I've ever seen. In a world of increasing diversity, including religious diversity, why in the world should the Bible have any relevance AT ALL in determining laws or equal rights?? Those of you preaching your beliefs here need a wake up call. Please come to your senses and realize that not everyone believes what you believe!! You can get married in YOUR church if you want, but please keep out of the rights of all citizens to go down to city hall and get a marriage license issued by the STATE.

I am again amazingly aware of how deceived people are that are non-believers of the holy scriptures, and those who CLAIM to be believers but do not obey what it says. The elohim(our one true god) of Israel called YHWH who created us, CLEARLY tells us that homosexuality is an abomination to him. He is a perfect elohim and he does not create that which he detests. People who are homosexuals, mostly were abused, or neglected as children. It is time that we who are believers stand up for the holy scrpitures that was given by inspiration of the holy spirit. Many people who have come out of that lifestlye can testify that they were not born that way, and have giiven their lives to the one who gave hiis life for all of us, for our sins, that is the one who is called Jesus Christ, with his true hebrew name being Yahshua ha Moshiach,

Those who are in the church such as the Episcopal branch and many others liberal ones who claim to follow Yahshua, are changing his scripture to suite their lives. In the first book of Timothy chapter 3, verse 2, it says clearly, ' A BISHOP (OR PASTOR) MUST BE BLAMELESS THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE," See here it is clear that a leader must be mairried to a woman. Verse 12 repeats this direction. Man with man and women with women is not natural. In Timothy 2, chapter 3 verse 1-3 talks about the last days, "perilious times will come, and men shall be lovers of themselves WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION." The holy one of Israel Knew what would happen and prophesied it. Like Sodom and Gemorah, who were destroyed not only for not helping the poor and widows, but FOR RAMPANT HOMOSEXUALITY.

Romans 1 vewrse 26-27, says "FOR THIS CAUSE ELOHIM GAVE THEM UP UNTO VILE AFFECTIONS (homosexuality), FOR EVEN THEIR WOMEN DID CHANGE THE NATURAL USE INTO THAT WHICH IS AGAINST NATURE. AND LIKEWISE, ALSO THE MEN LEAVING THE NATURAL USE OF THE WOMEN, BURNED IN THEIR LUST ONE TOWARD ANOTHER, MEN WITH MEN, WORKING THAT WHICH IS UNSEEMILY, AND RECEIVING IN THEMSELVES THAT RECOMPENCE OF THEIR ERROR WHICH WAS MET. (THEY WERE DESTROYED). AND EVEN AS THEY DID LIKE TO RETAIN ELOHIM IN THEIR KNOWLEGDE, ELOHIM GAVE THEM OVER TO A REPROBATE MIND."

It is clear in these scriptures what Our Elohim thinks of homosexuality. You cannot deny the truth of his word.\

In Leviticus 18, verse 22, " HOMOSEXUALITY IS ABSOLUTELY FORBIDDEN, FOR IS IS AN ENORMOUS SIN."(THY SHALL NOT LIE WITH MANKIND AS WITH WOMENKIND, IT IS AN ABOMINATION) VERSE 24, "DO NOT DEFILE YOURSELF IN ANY OF THESE WAYS FOR THESE ARE THINGS THE HEATHEN DO."

We who are born again followers of our Messiah Yahshua, must love the sinner as he did, but show them the truth and the way, and that he is the only way to eternal life.

Stand up now if you believe every word of the holy scriptures. Take them literally. He is watching. Repent you who claim to follow him with your lips but with your actions you do not.

Shoshana

... lets also not forget, that .... In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. [2Cr 4:4]

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. [Mat 22:29]
For I am the LORD, I change not [Mal 3:6]

???This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away??? (2 Timothy 3:1-5).

We are not surprised at the wickedness that is sweeping across the world, but it is our responsibility to take a stand for God???s Word until Jesus comes.

???But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed??? (Luke 17:29-30).

It is sad that at the 21st century we are still discussing about what the Good Book says about our today's topics as it wasn't a product (also) of the particular cultures in which its 40 different authors were raised. Yes, we can believe God spoke. But, in Bible terms, he did it THROUGH (about) 40 different "co-authors", respecting their language skills and specific/limited worldview, which include, among other things, their vision on sexuality. The challange for every religious person is to synthesize what is essencial in the Bible in order to avoid the common error of a doctrinal thought that generally supress a racional morality. The imortant question is not what the Good Book says about gay marriage, but what the essencial message of the Bible says about love, despite of genre or culture dynamics.

So if you aren't a Christian or at least believe in the Bible, then you can't be a part of a marriage? Forget the homosexuals, what are you saying to the millions of people who don't practice the same faith?

From all the discussion pro and con about the bible and marriage, it seems clear that marriage is a part of religion. Since marriage is a part of religion and there is a separation of church and state than the state should have nothing to say about marriage. All couple joinings should be referred to as civil unions for governmental, medical, and insurance purposes. Marriage should only be a term used in a religious context. The definition of marriage stays the same and everyone is treated the same under the law.

So, basically, according to the those who believe the Bible supports homosexuality, God would be okay with me if I was gay? So I can just ignore all the passages of where it mentions abomination, unnatural or the fact that God destroyed an entire city over it. You see, it just doesn't make any sense to me and so many other Christians, the Bible is pure and Holy, it is the only thing in it's existence that holds the kind of purity that it does. All those other points about slaves and the treatement of women and the treatment of Jews weren't biblical, the Bible doesn't condone the maltreatment of anyone!! anywhere!! The slave issue has already been discussed in this debate. I urge people to please read the Bible for themselves, ask God to reveal the Truth and to guide you. I am completely disgusted and sadden, concerned and apalled that people would call themselves Christians and pervert the very Word of God. Fellow Christians, the very Word of God is being used to support a sin that God clearly opposes, wow, we clearly are in the last days. May God Have Mercy On this Generation.