The Good Book and Gay Marriage

Kudos to Ms. Miller and Newsweek for an important analytical view of the Bible with regard to homosexuality and other important social issues. I am a Christian, but have always felt that the Bible must be considered for its larger meanings and lessons vs. the specific literal passages, which have been written, handed down, translated and rewritten quite often, usually if not always by men. Much may have been lost or added in those translations, which is the risk to interpret and apply the Bible???s messages literally and strictly. Other religions (Jewish for example) have additional books/messages they consider to be sacred. Strict literal interpretations of the Bible would still have us condoning women as chattel and accepting slavery. And remember, sodomy refers to a specific sexual action that I am certain many heterosexuals (including Christians) have engaged in, so unless every heterosexual who has ever engaged in sodomy is doomed to hell, then I don't believe people should so vehemently condemn homosexuals because some homosexuals do not even engage in the act of sodomy -- so by some people's logic, they should be OK, right? Here are just two other examples of the dangerous slippery slope of a literal Biblical interpretation: 1) God created Adam and Eve, who had two sons -- Cain and Abel. Cain later killed Abel, which would leave only 3 people on earth, so how did the earth become populated with people? Did Cain have incestuous sexual relations with his mother Eve or did Adam and Eve have more children? The Bible says that Cain was sent into the wilderness where he met a woman from another tribe, but the Bible does not explain the origin of that tribe? If whomever wrote the Bible failed to explain the appearance or origin of other people besides Adam and Eve and their sons, then what else has been omitted? And 2) many who condemn homosexuality use the story of Lot and Sodom and Gomorrha,yet they conveniently omit that Lot first offered up his daughters to be raped by the angry men of the city, and after Lot and his family fled the city and his wife was turned to stone, Lot's two daughters got him drunk and had sex with him in order to continue the family name. The raping of daughters is not condemned in the Bible nor is the incest between Lot and his daughters, so are we to believe that rape and incest are acceptable behaviors today because they aren't specifically condemned in these stories in the Bible? I doubt it. To me, the Sodom and Gomorrah story is about accepting God's angels into your life and that God's angels should be protected from those who would harm them because they are perceived as being unclean or different. And the story of Jesus is about non-judgmental love of our fellow human beings, especially those who are different than us. It is relatively easy to love those most like us, but the greatest demonstration of Christ-like behavior is to love AND accept those who are not like us, as Jesus often did.

There are purity codes for which one could sacrifice a pigeon or something. However, the injunctions against homosexuality is not one of them! Like other serious crimes, the penalty was death. One cannot dismiss these injunctions as one cannot dismiss those against adultery or murder.

As host of a Christian radio program in the Northeast US that focuses on caring for GLBT persons and their families inside and outside the evangelical church, I encounter many teenagers and young adults who feel condemned by the voices that represent Christianity.

Adult conversations like this are being read by teens and young adults vulnerable to suicide. Conversations like this tend to leave them feeling condemned - and their needs overlooked.

I am convinced that what they need to hear is an entirely different message than the one we often offer. I know this because they share with me what they need in their own words.

For such young people who may experience same-sex attraction for the remainder of their lives whether they 'act' upon such desires or not, they need our care and support.

They need our care and support because our message requests that they deny their relational and sexual needs in order to maintain celibacy. That, my friends, is not an easy path for the vast majority of humanity: but it is possible.

For such a path to be possible, the core message from Christianity should be one of gentleness, patience, kindness, and long-suffering. Our message - the Gospel of Jesus Christ - should be lived out by laying down our lives to care for GLBT persons and their families.

For such a path to be possible, we need to become "fathers" and "pastors" who love, hug, listen to, care for, serve, invite, and invest in GLBT persons' gifts and talents. We must become Christian pastors and parents who unconditionally love our GLBT children - "just as they are."

For such a path to be possible, we - the wider Christian community - must vulnerably admit to our own broken identities. FACT: Many of us in the evangelical church have broken sexual and gender identities expressed through our high divorce and internet porn rates. We too have a "choice" and yet we seem to struggle to make the right choice to avoid online porn and keep our marriages alive - even though we have Jesus!

In light of this, we do not so much need to win a debate over gay marriage as much as we need to convey humility in recognizing that we ALL struggle with sexual purity issues and other sin struggles. In the words of Paul, we ALL do these "same" things. (Romans 2:1-4)

I am not criticizing Christians defending traditional marriage in this forum. Neither am I here to lob a theological bomb at the authors of this article. Rather, I am simply saying to those who feel condemned by Christianity: Jesus loves you and I love you.

Debate forums like this are often perceived as the church's entire response to GLBT persons. In truth, much work is being done inside the evangelical church to make sure you feel welcomed and invited to work out your salvation along with the rest of us - broken sinners in need of grace.

For those interested, learn more at:

http://fishontheotherside.org

Sincerely,

Bill Henson
Host, Lead Them Hom

The real question is should religious prohibitions be the law of the land. I haven't read a significant portion of the posts here but I really do believe that most people's objections to gay marriage come from intolerance and fear, call it what you will. Calling gays the "new black" makes the leap that blacks have made it past hatred and prejudice. Unfortunately, too many people in America hate too easily anything that is different (and often more successful) than themselves. krw's comment that Gay men and women are free to marry the opposite sex is silly at best.

Isn it funny how Christians are ready to condem someone for not following their religion. Yet fail to condem themselves for failing o follow it. So they enjoy their shrimp dinner while being in a red dress, then refuse to sell their children into slavery all which are required by their own religion...My Gods don't dont want to kill any one as their God does. Yet they fail to live by the one and ONLY rule in their religion. "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" So lets out law ALL marriage as they wont allow gays to marry so their religion says none then should get married. Lets all have sex whit who we want where whe want and when we want. That would be the Christian thing to do you know.
Oldfox bob

Isnt it funny that these so called Christians will quote chapter and verse against homosexuality, ( of which there are only three) yet fail to quote those against hetrosexuality ( of which there are over 300) They all exhort how good that shrimp dinner was while they or their wife wore a red dress. Funny isnt it that they wont sell their children into slavery as the bible says to do. Oh now that would be wrong. Yet they can spout off how their so called God will condem us for being gay. Thank heaven i am not christian, and my God's will not kill them who dont believe in them as they would us...Oh and the only true law of the bible is the golden rule...Do unto others as you would have done unto you. Ist it about time they the christians lived up to their own rules

Authorized KJV version of the Bible...there are countless warnings against ...
And the Authorized by who?
People that think this ultimate power we call god can read and write are the sickest most mindless people in the world.
God doesn't read and write and thos autorised versions are authorised by who? YA Another fat stupid halusinagenic BIGOT smokeing poppies and had a LUCID dream and thought that was god? You people are worse mental cases then Hitler. himself. Wait till ya find out it's a no choice medcal condition, now who's the sinner.

It is lovely that these two fine fellows who make their living in one of the most secure industries in the world (religion) can have a wonderful debate on God's view of homosexual marriage. But, other than addressing the article in question, such a topic should be totally irrelevant. The US is based on separation of church and state. Gay people do not promote sodomy - certainly no more or no less if they are allowed to marry. The strong feelings and laws against gay marriage are simply the product of intolerance and some sort of fear of "conversion". I wish people could live their own lives and let others live as well. The concept that "gay is the new black" is interesting, but in our country we need to get it through our heads that the "old black" still needs some help in the attitude adjustment department among whites. I fear for our new president's life - there are too many idiots out there (most of whom hate gays about as much as they hate blacks).

It reads like some of these posters are so impressed by the Old English used in the King James translation of the bible that they take it as the most aged and wise ancient translation. It is as if they don't know that the so named, King James, was the King of England, not heaven or even a part of the Middle East and that King James even had long lasting male lovers. He riegned in the 17th century, commissioning the bible translation to support the divine right of kings and oppress Catholics.

It reads like some of these posters are so impressed by the Old English used in the King James translation of the bible that they take it as the most aged and wise ancient translation. It is as if they don't know that the so named, King James, was the King of England, not heaven or even a part of the Middle East and that King James even had long lasting male lovers. He riegned in the 17th century, commissioning the bible translation to support the divine right of kings and oppress Catholics.

The following are definitions of marriage and of matrimony from webster's online dictionary.

marriage
1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected ; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3: an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry ??? J. T. Shawcross>

mat·ri·mo·ny
Pronunciation: \??ma-tr??-??m??-n??\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French matrimoignie, from Latin matrimonium, from matr-, mater mother, matron ??? more at mother
Date: 14th century
: the union of man and woman as husband and wife : marriage

My point by posting these two terms and their definitions is I believe its a matter of misinterpretation of terminology. Marriage implies a civil contract between two people, where as matrimony is a term that implies a religious union between a man and a woman. What the homosexual population is asking for is the right to have a civil contract between two people regardless of there sexual orientation or any other kind of orientation that may befall them. Homosexuals are not asking the government to make churches allow them to marry. Homosexuals are asking the government to grant them the same civil rights that are given to heterosexuals. If homosexuals have an issue with the sate of matrimony, then they should take that up with the churches. As for marriage, as a leagal contract between two people, that is a matter of government. Therefore, the government needs to practive separation of Church and State (which they had no problem doing when they took prayer out of public schools), and they government should not practice this separation (remember that part of the constitution, because I don't think our government does) when it is only conveniant for the government, but should practice it at all times where any civil issue are involved.

First, I want to emphasis that I do accept gays but do not accept their actions to be gay. It is not acceptable to God but at the same time he does love all his children and desires the welfare and happiness of each person. In the last days before Christ comes, many will twist the meaning of the scriptures to make wrong actions seem good and good actions seem wrong. This is what is happening right now with this article. God's plan of happiness is centered on families, that is marriage is between man and women who can create or adopt children to bring spirts into the world to be loved, taught righteous principles and raised by a good mother and father in the home weather in this present life or the next life after Christ appears on earth. True joy comes from being obedident to his commandments. Read below the scriptures, and if you really want to know the truth, follow the teachings below and you will know the truth revealed by the Holy Ghost who teaches what is right and wrong. Search and listen to the Holy Ghost which speaks to us with a
quiet small voice into our hearts if we will open them up that brings us peace and the knowledge of what is true. I too have prayed and pondered these things and have recieved a witness thropugh the Holy Ghost that the things that I have mention are true, I testify that Christ teachings on what marriage is about is true. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Moroni 10:3-7

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how amerciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not btrue; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with dreal intent, having faith in Christ, he will fmanifest the gtruth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may aknow the truth of all things.
6 And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is.
7 And ye mayaknow that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, baccording to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever.

Mr. Duke's arguments confirm my belief in the separation of church and state. The bible can clearly be argued both ways, however, for people like Duke there is only one way, and that is THEIR way. The foundations of our government are based on equal rights, and marriage is certainly a government created right. If some churches believe otherwise, it is their right not to perform gay marriages. However, they should stay out of what is the realm of government.