The Good Book and Gay Marriage

Why do so many Gays think that everything always has to be about them ? Just because Obama isn't kissing your butt doesn't mean he's against you. It gets tiresome, you people are not the center of the universe. Are you only Gay or can you be anything else as well ? I work with a couple of Gay guys and every single thing that comes out of their mouth is about being gay. We get it, you are gay,so what ? Be something other than just your sexuality.

Duke showed why the Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. However, Wylie-Kellerman did not show how and where the Bible could possibly say it is okay. Rather, he used unclear passages to say "Let's all love each other." If you say the Bible is God's word, then it clearly says homosexuality is a sin.

I'm honestly stunned at this exchange. It is made to look as though it is one opinion about what the Bible says versus another opinion about what the Bible says. This is such utter nonsense! The Bible clearly states that homosexual activity and bestiality, along with other aberrant sexual behaviors and ritual child sacrifices were the reasons that God annihilated the all of the Gentile Canaanite peoples (Lev 20:23) who were never given the Levitical law. All of these behaviors are abominable TO GOD HIMSELF (Lev 20:23, 1 Cor 6:9), no matter who does them. Regarding food, on the other hand, it clearly states that the Jews specifically are to be separated from other peoples, and in like manner certain foods were separated for them by God as a sign of the separation of the Jews. Jews alone were forbidden from eating certain foods, as a sign of their separation from the other peoples (Gen 9:3, Lev 20:24-26). Those foods that were called unclean were to be considered BY THE JEWS to be abominable (Lev 11:10). One is clearly a universal moral law, the other is clearly a ceremonial sign only for the Jews. Scripture itself makes this as clear as day. Additionally, the two infractions are dealt with in a completely different manner: homosexuals were to be executed (Lev 20:13), whereas a Jew who touched unclean foods was to be considered unclean until sunset (Lev 11:31), and then he was fine. There simply is no equating the two types of regulation -- one universally moral and one limited and ceremonial. This is not a matter of opinion or interpretation either -- any honest reader of the book of Leviticus with a 5th grade education could tell the difference. If any reader doubts what I say, let him read it for himself, as the Bible makes it abundantly clear. It's one thing to claim a personal belief that homosexuality is OK IN SPITE of what the Bible says, but it is another to claim that the Bible supports and endorses it -- that is no more than a blatant lie.

Further, the Bible states that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We have a sin nature, according to scripture. Given that we are ALL predisposed to sin, why should it surprise anyone that some are born desiring evil relationships? This does not mean sin is OK, or that God endorses it because he made us that way. We are all born sinners, and God most definitely endorses none of it, but roundly condemns it and offers an escape from it through His only Son Jesus Christ.

Since we ALL have a sin nature, everyone must repent of the things they naturally seek, not just homosexuals, but yes, homosexuals too.

Lisa Miller missed out the profound relationship between the Jews and the gods that they worshiped and the religious practices of these religions. If these were understood, the biblical understanding is very clear.

http://www.psa91.com/clobber5.htm

My background is fundamentalist Catholicism where, in the forties and fifties, I was taught that only Catholics could go to Heaven. I outgrew that, however, as I took courses in Bible study and joined Bible study groups that included fundamentalists. The absolute interpretations espoused by the latter seemed to require standing on one's head to make all the different books of the Bible agree. I came to see the Bible as a series of faith accounts written in different times by vastly different people. I gradually understood that the most fundamental of biblical interpretations is to understand how the people at the time of the various writings understood them. The Hebrews were a minority religion in ancient times and survival depended greatly on large numbers of descendants. Homosexuals do not reproduce.. Rules against homosexuality as well as rules about diet and social concerns, like stoning women for adultery, fit the beliefs and fears of the times in which they were written. We do not live in those types of societies today. We do not stone adulterous women (or men), nor do we have population concerns as did the ancient Hebrews. To discard the Hebrew laws that are socially or morally unacceptable today, but believing firmly that the one law against homosexuality is an absolute is sheer hypocrisy. Many of us are uncomfortable with the idea of same sex relationships and want/need to have God condemn them to justify our feelings. It boils down to whether one needs to believe in an absolute ANYTHING. Seeing God as moving right along with humankind's growth is downright scary to many people. How much simpler to believe that the Bible is literal and that everything in it is true, except of course, there's still the problem of how many Hebrew laws we discount because they don't fit with what we believe today. It's scary to be open-minded, to give up the absolutes and think for ourselves I'm Paraphrasing a theologian who once commented that doubting is not a sin, but not-doubting surely is. The theory of Biblical inerrancy , I'm sorry to say, reflects the fears of many that there are no absolutes; lack of the latter casts one into a wilderness of free thought that is very frightening, even though liberating.
When I read in this debate that God is the same yesterday, today and forever, I cringe. How dare we limit the Supreme Being?

Lisa Miller made a very good point about following the laws in Letitucs with realizing it. We should not follow the laws about gay relationships because when jesus came back the old testatment laws were abolished becuase he fulfilled the law. But gay marriage is addressed in the new testament. Romans 1 :24-27 IEven their women exchanged natuaral relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and recieved in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. learn it.

The article states that we should no adhere to Leviticus scripture about sexual impurities because most people today do not follow the other ten thousand laws given in Leviticus. That's a good point but Lisa Miller forgot two things: Once Jesus came back people were no longer under the old law. And that gay relationships are addressed in the new testament. Romans 1 :24-27."Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.- learn it.

My comment is in defense of the biblical principles, which are undeniable. Only with a single verse is enough for me because it's giving the lights of how to please God in a certain subject. If we start now to look as it can accommodate so that it is feasible at present, better not read the Bible because we can not interpret our accommodation. God is the same yesterday, today and forever, and wrote the bible not a man but is God, that is our faith. Everyone is free to take the faith you want, but it is believed that the Christian must believe in the word of God, where homosexuality is a deviation that human was able to unleash the wrath necessary to destroy two cities: Sodom and Gomorrah , And even apocalypse is convicted.

you raise a male like a female he will be gay!!! he's not born that way,you force him in that direction by raising a sissy!

"Let's try for a minute and take religious conservatives at their word" This is how Newsweek begins its' cover story? With sarcasm and disparagement? Is this serious journalism? I've read reasonable and balanced articles on this subject, but this is not one of them.
Moses and Paul clearly condemned homosexual activity, and any attempt to say otherwise is dishonest. The honest question is not, "what did Moses and Paul say" but "how does Moses and Paul apply to us today." THAT is an honest question that Newsweek MIGHT try to tackle. But Newsweek would have to adopt a more respectful tone if it serious wanted to engage readers.

Since the bible has never concerned itself with whats real, true or accurate, who cares whats written in it, they dont even know who wrote the damn thing.
Thats why there's civil ceremonies. The church has been nothing but cliques and clubs anyway.

Genesis 19:5-8, Leviticus 18:22-23, 20:13, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 Timothy 1:9-10, Romans 1:26-27 explicitly
I Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; Ephesians 5:3 implicitly

Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." Romans 1:26-27 "Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men..."

could somebody please tell me the scripture you are using to prevent gay marriage, im confused

The article was engaging in that two men of faith who are well studied in Biblical history went back and forth with writings that supported their particular beliefs. Such civil intellectual discussions are often interesting and educational.

The flip side of this is that it is mostly irrelevant to enlightened individuals. A belief in a supreme being that believers would say created us and then abhors some of its creation is absurd. A god that creates gay individuals and says don't follow your god-given deep inclinations is an abomination, to use a gay King James term. Yeah, good ole KJ was a switch hitter. That should send shivers up and down the biblical quoters out there who like the old English sound of authority.

And for all those who are so indoctrinated by parents, clergy and the general religiousity that swirls constantly around us, don't you get it that the Bible is just a bunch of quasi-history written by men with various agendas, few of which really are concerned with exposing reality. Think about it, "You shall have no other gods before me." What kind of a supreme being has to lay down the law that they come first? Sounds just like a man craving power over his subjects. No idols, hmmm, that god is jealous ??? not a godly trait I would venture. Don't take my name in vain. What, as a god you can be insulted? All that stuff sounded important when I was a child, but children grow up and some of them start using their faculties to reason this out. Yes, there are great lessons, parables and stories in the Bible. It's not a worthless tome, but for people and civilizations to build churches, monuments and ritualistic lifestyles around it and try to govern others by how closely they adhere to some fictional system of belief, well, it's incredible that this has gone on so long.

It is especially egregious when people use religion to castigate others for lifestyle choices. Gays are gay because that's the way their genetic makeup turned out, not because they don't believe in your form of magical thinking. Unmarried co-habitators aren't sinning because there is no such thing as sin. Working on the weekend is not a transgression. The world was not created in seven days ??? it took billions of years. Humans evolved from more primitive life forms.

Mutual respect, loving, caring, and giving are all universally practiced forms of humanity that have nothing to do with religion. One could even say that if they are practiced in the absence of religious impetus they are all the more sincere and heartfelt. So while religious scholars debate the Bible's stance on gay living it is basically a moot point to a mind liberated from religion. It's time to stop beating up innocent people with Byzantine and narrow-minded thinking.