EDUCATION

Reform School

An Obama education advisor thinks U.S. schools could take a lesson from Finland and Singapore.

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  • Posted By: dirtydog @ 03/15/2009 10:48:45 PM

    It is time to stop comparing the US system to others in the world. If we wish to have resutls such as Singapore, perhaps we should follow their example - madatory uniforms, fees for books and supplies, requirements for admission to a school - even elementary - which involve - ulp, gasp, OMG! parental participation, caning [yes, that is right, getting you backside whipped] for offenses such as trunacy, tardiness, lying, not to mention the much higher rate of expulsion because they do not tolorate the types of behavior our teachers must put up with, and finally, if at the end of primary school, your scores don't cut it, no high school for you! If we implement these changes, along with the MUCH higher support given to teachers [both in training, and financial rewards] we might in a decade to two approach Singaport in terms of results.

  • Posted By: vince_90745@yahoo.com @ 01/25/2009 8:40:23 PM

    People wake up and smell the stink! We have a country that is filled with second language learners, students who give minimal effort, parents who have to work and don't allot time to nurturing their children, parents who don't fill it's that urgent that the child do well in school at an early age. We have states trying to cut teacher salaries. Why would anyone want to be a teacher? Reforming school is Five prong. First, government must fund to the fullest their expectations; Second, parents must be held accountable for assisting their child; Third, districts must be held accountable for their wasteful spending; Fourth, good teachers need to be paid & bad retrained (if that doesn't work) fired!; and last but not least students are held accountable for their actions and learning! See these countries you mention hold Education as a priority! Parents take it upon themselves to hold their child accountable for their actions in and out of school. I know because I'm one of those parents! Nothing will change unless first admitting that as parents
    we are accountable for our own child!

  • Posted By: futureteacher @ 01/14/2009 6:25:54 PM

    I don't believe the school system is trying to "shut down some of this education of blacks" or of any students for that matter. Funding and money is definetly a big part as well as the quality of education, and ambition of the teacher. In my opinion we, as a nation, are acquiring many teachers that are just "getting by" through college; that really have nothing else going for them so why not teach. Also teachers do not have very good salaries therefore if a highly intelligent individual had the option between teaching and medicine many would pick medicine due to salary.(that is if they really don't have passion for becoming a teacher) Parents are a big part of the problem, however teachers can't "fix" the parents. They must work around it. Bottom line funding has to be present, and teachers have to be determined and stable enough to provide the education that is key for the future of America.

  • Posted By: valark @ 12/18/2008 1:33:14 PM

    You should also mention that children in other countries that achieve highly go to school more days a year. Obviously if someone goes to school sixty more days a year, they will learn more. Although its not the only factor, it does contribute.

    • Posted By: missteacher @ 01/10/2009 12:46:38 AM

      As a teacher, I don't believe it takes all that. I think kids in other countries are more self-motivated and appreciate education more than kids here in the US. Still, I could motivate and teach them more if I didn't have to espend so much time and energy trying to discipline one or two students who admits to coming to school just to socialize and have no intentions to participate in learning. Classrooms need order and structure and all students need a fair opportunity to learn. I could better assess my effectiveness as a teacher if other variables weren't such an influence on the kids- school environment safety, classroom discipline and respect, and enforcing of academic requirements/accountability.

  • Posted By: toledomom @ 12/18/2008 4:47:13 PM

    Valark,

    It isn't "obvious" at all that spending more days per year in the classroom leads to learning more. If one isn't learning to start with, how is spending more time in that environment going to make a difference?! It's just more time spent learning nothing.

    • Posted By: missteacher @ 01/10/2009 12:36:36 AM

      No, see you've got it all wrong. More time in the classroom leads to more MONEY for the school! You can't keep removing the disrupting children from the classroom 'cause it will take away from "seat time" (a certain number of children has to be in school, a certain number of days for the school report card and ultmately, continous FUNDING!). Even at the expense of student learning! :-(

  • Posted By: kat144 @ 01/01/2009 8:59:20 PM

    In my opinion, as a high school teacher, the largest problem in publc education is not undertrained teachers or a lack of tough tests. The largest problem is that I, and my fellow teachers, are charged not only with teaching academic content, but also with teaching social skills, being counselors and consolers, trying to stop violent behavior, and trying to keep our students from conceiving children while under our care. We are glorified babysitters, and have little time to teach math, science, or English.
    Also, students come to my 9th grade English class as functional illiterates. I am asked to teach these students right alongside students who read at an 11th or 12th grade level. Students who once would have been placed in an occupational therapy setting, are now sitting next to students who are at or above grade level, and somehow, inbetween breaking up fist fights, I am asked to teach these students how to read Shakespeare. Yeah right. All students are not created equal. Let's stop trying to teach them all in the same way so that they can pass a test. We are not helping to produce thinkers, experimenters, or inventers. We are helping to produce master test takers.

    • Posted By: missteacher @ 01/10/2009 12:22:08 AM

      As I said before, the only reason they're placing them back into the regular classroom setting even though they know they would do better and be more successful in that occupational therapy setting is FUNDING! They can't get the credit they need for the students in those classes. It's all about how the data reads. They don't have these students' best interests at heart. It's all big business. I wish parents and society would wake up and see what's really going on. Teacher's are not failing the students. Teachers are the best students have going for them. Too many parents are naiive, and the kids don't know better either. The the school system is the problem, and thesse people are very aware of what they're doing. They just hope parents and the rest of the taxpayers don't figure it out!

  • Posted By: LangstonLaura @ 01/04/2009 10:41:34 PM

    Give up your tired argument that teachers are unprepared and ineffective. Students today are disrespectful, lazy cheaters whose parents haven't given them an appreciation for education nor have they taught them to respect other students' rights to an education. Teachers have historically been disrespected and blamed for society's ills. ENOUGH already. Look around - school isn't the only institution in crisis these days. Blame parents for doing a lousy job, principals who don't support their teachers with discipline measures, and students themselves.

    • Posted By: missteacher @ 01/10/2009 12:09:48 AM

      Okay! Finally! Someone is getting closer to the truth! As a school teacher, I am tired of people commenting about the kids, parents or teachers being the problem. Kids are going to be kids. Many (I didn't say all) parents these days, particularly in the schools with the highest percentage of minorities, low socioeconomic status, low academic levels, etc., are very young, single-parents, and/or undereducated themselves, and just don't know much or the best about parenting (and I didn't say they didn't care.). In my experience, most teachers work hard for their students, but this is typically disregarded if six other teachers out of 50 aren't working well. It's not the kids, it's not the parents, and it's definitely not the teachers. The bottom line is "MONEY!: The school system is using these children to keep their funding and individuals use them to advance their careers. I really believe these repeated behaviors of disrespect and noncompliance could be reduced and eliminated if the school system dealt with them in an effective manner. I see two reasons why they don't implement truly effective actions to eliminate the major discipline issues in these types of schools. No. 1---they don't care about these children enough. I actually believe it is a conspiracy to shut down some of this education of blacks. Too many of us have been going to college and achieving too much, which leads to having too much of a voice and power in society. One has even become president of the United States! Okay, so how do they slow this down or stop this? Keep their schools and classrooms full of distractions so that even the few who might want to get an education can't get it well enough to really be competitive academically. But blame it on the poor pitiful teacher by telling her she doesn't have any classroom management skills. We dont want to deal with Johnny (I want be stereotypical by calling him Raheem or Marquis!). We don't want to make him accountable for his actions because we need him in that classroom a certain number of days of the year for "seat time" . We've got to keep our funding! That's reason No. 2 - funding. These kids are just a product to the school system. If we don't want to expel Johnny, that's cool, but remove him from the classroom 'cause no one is getting a fair education with these constant classroom disruptions. Stop adding all of this social work *** and trying to psych teachers into believing and accepting this as a part of educating. Don't get me wrong, I naturally respond to my students concerning their issues outside of academics because it can't be ignored or disregarded when it comes to their learning,. However, all of the extra paperwork, meetings, and outside responsibilities the school system keeps requiring teachers to complete for documentation purposes, should be assigned to some social workers, mental health counselors, and extra secretaries!

    • Posted By: missteacher @ 01/10/2009 12:08:55 AM

      Okay! Finally! Someone is getting closer to the truth! As a school teacher, I am tired of people commenting about the kids, parents or teachers being the problem. Kids are going to be kids. Many (I didn't say all) parents these days, particularly in the schools with the highest percentage of minorities, low socioeconomic status, low academic levels, etc., are very young, single-parents, and/or undereducated themselves, and just don't know much or the best about parenting (and I didn't say they didn't care.). In my experience, most teachers work hard for their students, but this is typically disregarded if six other teachers out of 50 aren't working well. It's not the kids, it's not the parents, and it's definitely not the teachers. The bottom line is "MONEY!: The school system is using these children to keep their funding and individuals use them to advance their careers. I really believe these repeated behaviors of disrespect and noncompliance could be reduced and eliminated if the school system dealt with them in an effective manner. I see two reasons why they don't implement truly effective actions to eliminate the major discipline issues in these types of schools. No. 1---they don't care about these children enough. I actually believe it is a conspiracy to shut down some of this education of blacks. Too many of us have been going to college and achieving too much, which leads to having too much of a voice and power in society. One has even become president of the United States! Okay, so how do they slow this down or stop this? Keep their schools and classrooms full of distractions so that even the few who might want to get an education can't get it well enough to really be competitive academically. But blame it on the poor pitiful teacher by telling her she doesn't have any classroom management skills. We dont want to deal with Johnny (I want be stereotypical by calling him Raheem or Marquis!). We don't want to make him accountable for his actions because we need him in that classroom a certain number of days of the year for "seat time" . We've got to keep our funding! That's reason No. 2 - funding. These kids are just a product to the school system. If we don't want to expel Johnny, that's cool, but remove him from the classroom 'cause no one is getting a fair education with these constant classroom disruptions. Stop adding all of this social work *** and trying to psych teachers into believing and accepting this as a part of educating. Don't get me wrong, I naturally respond to my students concerning their issues outside of academics because it can't be ignored or disregarded when it comes to their learning,. However, all of the extra paperwork, meetings, and outside responsibilities the school system keeps requiring teachers to complete for documentation purposes, should be assigned to some social workers, mental health counselors, and extra secretaries!

  • Posted By: ka5s @ 12/26/2008 4:37:30 PM

    Every school in the country has a handbook of student conduct (or some equivalent). I will bet a cup of bad coffee that in none of them is failure to learn an offense, and that in all of them, the gravest offense is failure to OBEY.

    We humans are born to learn. Why is it so hard to teach us what we need? Parents of bright children -- and most children are frighteningly bright -- sometimes have trouble keeping up. They need not worry; our schools will insure they come out as dull as adults.

    Credentials are not the solution. The best teachers have fire in their souls and love in their hearts. A catechism of political correctness cannot ignite that fire, neither can it inspire that love. We are lucky any young teachers survive the academic gauntlet they must run to become certified with any of that intact. What a joy it was to find that some did!

    College is not the solution. Time was, a High School Senior was already doing what our grandfathers might think college level work and our Grade Schools were teaching science that a century ago was known only by a few.

    A child begins his schooling eager to learn. WHY ARE WE NOT READY TO TEACH?!

    Verse does not survive in this format, but I will do what I can:


    Inside each adult There must hide A child, Who runs away From all the pain remembered, That he sees each day, Who lets another child grow up afraid; Inside each adult hides The price he paid.

    © Cortland Richmond 2002 (part of a longer work)


  • Posted By: Saira Mohammad @ 12/23/2008 3:29:16 PM

    YOu have only talked about teachers and schools. You forgot the most important ingredient the Parents . THis is where America doesn't get it. In all these high achieving countries check these kids out when the enter the school system. Their parents rich or poor have already instilled in them, that their ticket to a good life is thru education. So the parent starts early in teaching the basics of reading, writing, math and good behavior. These schools have parents who have given their children the equalivalent of 2years of what goes in to teaching American kids in their schools. So the bottom line is hold the parent responsible Parents have to do community classes in getting their kids ready for school before their kids come to school almost like community service. Give check list of if your child is ready for school he or she receives a free after school activitie in the community center or YMCA or COmmunity Recreation dept. It will encourage those parents who can't afford those activities and further benefit the kids. That system can be upheld on a reward based system thru out elementary schools. Better disciplined parents will give for better disciplined kids.

    saira mohammad

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 12/19/2008 7:00:11 AM

    It's going to be an uphill battle.
    Parents are stripped bare of power to effectively discipline their children when they get too spoiled rotten. Juvies, and pens substituted the parents' whips.
    Science and math became... geeky subjects. TV, sports, music and videogames became educators. Chidren are predominantly taught to believe the world was created almost...overnight

    • Posted By: Libricrat @ 12/23/2008 12:57:58 PM

      I have to agree with you here. It's more a matter of the culture of our society now has gotten away from discipline. The only people tha can discipline children now is the cops, courts and the penal system.

  • Posted By: gbsanford @ 12/20/2008 12:59:12 AM

    But the US spends three times as much per student and yet the US can't make the top 25 in quality education among developed countries worldwide. Throwing more money at US education is akin to the Wall St. and auto industry bailouts and it is no secret that it is corrupt and incompetent "management" in those industries that is being bailed out, or should I say being "enabled" to continue their incompetent ways. It is no different in schools across America, and when management at all levels is scrutinized and held accountable then US education will get better. It's really time to quit blaming parents, students, and teachers. They will only ever be as good as their so-called leaders.

    • Posted By: Melissa.71 @ 12/22/2008 2:43:52 PM

      As a new teacher, I sadly have to agree with you. There is much research and now pressure to really improve our schools. But in many failing districts: administrators, school board members, and some senior teachers seem to be so much more focused on maintaining the status quo than really accepting and implementing the needed reforms. And they are the people with the power to make real change. I've seen it over and over. After speaking up about needed reform, I was mocked as a "super-teacher wanna-be" and given a pink slip at the end of the year.

  • Posted By: Azbaggie @ 12/18/2008 1:46:10 PM

    Does no-one ask ,how come the richest country in the world has the highest number of children in poverty?

    • Posted By: mollymom24 @ 12/21/2008 3:31:28 PM

      The richest country in the world has more children because of the selfish greed of people like Bernie Maddow, John Thain and the executives at AIG and their enablers: George W, Ben Bernanke and Alan Greenspan. Sadly, most in this country still don't want to see that the cost of "trickle-down economics" (where very little actually trickles down) has been a loss of our status as an economic and intellectual global power.

      Just lower those taxes and make the masses happy because they casually ignore the fact that the children we're failing today will be stuck with the bill down the road.

      • Posted By: mollymom24 @ 12/21/2008 3:36:13 PM

        I meant to say "...the highest number of children in poverty..."

    • Posted By: mollymom24 @ 12/21/2008 3:33:37 PM

      The richest country in the world has more children because of the selfish greed of people like Bernie Maddow, John Thain and the executives at AIG and their enablers: George W, Ben Bernanke and Alan Greenspan. Sadly, most in this country still don't want to see that the cost of "trickle-down economics" (where very little actually trickles down) has been a loss of our status as an economic and intellectual global power.

      Just lower those taxes and make the masses happy because they casually ignore the fact that the children we're failing today will be stuck with the bill down the road.

  • Posted By: Emilli @ 12/20/2008 6:45:55 PM

    Teachers Unions would never allow this. The key is changing the way teachers think not the students.

  • Posted By: Against-Ignorance @ 12/20/2008 4:18:01 AM

    Covering the education of teachers is an idea long overdue. How is it any less ridiculous to make teachers pay for their schooling than it would be to make soldiers pay for Basic Training?

  • Posted By: gbsanford @ 12/20/2008 12:58:26 AM

    But the US spends three times as much per student and yet the US can't make the top 25 in quality education among developed countries worldwide. Throwing more money at US education is akin to the Wall St. and auto industry bailouts and it is no secret that it is corrupt and incompetent "management" in those industries that is being bailed out, or should I say being "enabled" to continue their incompetent ways. It is no different in schools across America, and when management at all levels is scrutinized and held accountable then US education will get better. It's really time to quit blaming parents, students, and teachers. They will only ever be as good as their so-called leaders.

  • Posted By: Reverend Smooth @ 12/19/2008 12:34:19 PM

    Formulae, names and dates are invaluable for someone, say, starting their own business, from plumbing to auto repair to consulting.

  • Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 12/18/2008 10:13:04 PM

    I think the schools must teach our children how to live and survive in this world, more on practical things rather than academic lessons which we don't use much in our daily lives anyway. What is the purpose of learning formulae, rmembering dates, names etc when none of them would be used when the children leave school and some of them can't even write and spell properly! The children should be taught on the everyday things they face in live, legal procedures, their rights, survival skills, self-defense, what to do in any possible event like an accident, crime scene or any possible awkward situations. Teach them how to become like McGyver for instance. Teach them how to become entreprenuers, how to make the first million, what are the alternatives in life. Teach them to understand themselves. Teach them the failures of leaders. Teach them why and how corruption, scandals and other behaviour will lead to disaster, give them the present day examples. Explain to them the failure of the Katrina debacle. Teach them the expenses incurred in stagging wars, starting bush fires in California, damages caused by floods etc so that when they grow up they will be well informe adults. Tell them about the real "democracy" where lobbyists influence is critical so that they can elect better presidents by supporting their own lobby for their cause. Teach them how junk food is prepared, how the chicken and cows were treated before being slaughtered. In short, there are more better things to be taught then the current curriculum.

  • Posted By: mfenwick @ 12/18/2008 6:44:29 PM

    Our cultural values have alot to do with education. A culture in which you get more jail time for robbing a bank than you do for murder and where you can get trampled to death at a Wal-Mart store can't be expected to produce good teachers.

  • Posted By: homeschooler @ 12/18/2008 6:42:20 PM

    Maybe parents need to care more and be more involved and I really think the school systems need to make their information more interesting and digestable to kids, also let the kids pick things they are interested in learning as well. Ever wonder why homeschoolers are averaging 2yrs above grade level? Because they get to do what is interesting to them on top of the other stuff and they don't have to deal with the extra crap and wasting of time.

  • Posted By: davidehenriksen @ 12/18/2008 5:36:39 PM

    One of the other things the other countries do that we don't do is hold the students accountable. All of the accountability standards in the U.S. are aimed at why the teachers, schools, administration, etc are failing. If we don't start getting across to the kids that they have to study, pay attention in class, take their education seriously, etc by holding back the ones who refuse to participate, then the any reforms are irrelevant. Think about how many kids are in school today only because they want to play football or some other sport, or because they want to keep their drivers license, or they want to hang out with their friends. I guarantee that when we stop awarding diplomas to students whose only qualification for graduation is "time served" will achieve results. Of course, my opinion flies completely in the face of all the parents, do-gooders and academics who believe the child is never at fault. If you don't believe me, go into a classroom where the teacher is working their rear ends off doing everything possible and count the number of kids who are zoned out because the material isn't "interesting", "relevant", "worth knowing", "not something they need to know", etc, etc, etc.

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