Twilight of the Capitalist Gods

Democracy turns Demoncrazy!

I try to stay away from tit for tat and fingerpointing as much as possible but, this article is the worst piece of media bias and fiscal conservative bashing that I've seen in a long time. There is very much literature out there to show that Timothy Geithner and Robert Rubin are very much part of the problem rather than part of the solution. I not to mention Paulson. You can do your own research but, rather than separating out the good apples from the bad we're now getting ready to throw out the entire barrel and replace it with Euro-Socialism.
Free markets work and will always be the best economies but, eventually we will figure out the credit is the Achilles Heal of Capitalism. Greed as well needs to be addressed as well. It differs from good honest profit seeking in that Greed (for the purposes of our current credit crisis) is what motivates preople to lie, cheat for financial gain which should clearly be policed and procecuted. If however, we regulate and prevent honest business for profit along with regulating for greed, we will be throwing out the baby with the bath water. Capitalism works as long as you account for greed and credit.

Alcove78 said:
"As contrite as Greenspan seems to be, you don't hear about him being charged with running a ponzi scheme like Madoff, despite that being exactly what he did."

BUt au-contraire. The Derivatives market is just that, a $50Trillion ponzi scheme. Since there are no things of value backing these "bets' up, there is nothing except the PROMISE of a return, ergo a pnzi scheme. And it is all getting kicked downfield to have Obama take care of it.

ARREST, TRY and HANG BUSH AND CHENEY. The only way to get back on track is to HANG the muddafuggas who got us here. And throw Phil Graham in there too since he was the point man on the dergulation fiasco.

Trust but verify, yeah not in Treasonous GOP world.

Alcove78 said:
"As contrite as Greenspan seems to be, you don't hear about him being charged with running a ponzi scheme like Madoff, despite that being exactly what he did."

BUt au-contraire. The Derivatives market is just that, a $50Trillion ponzi scheme. Since there are no things of value backing these "bets' up, there is nothing except the PROMISE of a return, ergo a pnzi scheme. And it is all getting kicked downfield to have Obama take care of it.

ARREST, TRY and HANG BUSH AND CHENEY. The only way to get back on track is to HANG the muddafuggas who got us here. And throw Phil Graham in there too since he was the point man on the dergulation fiasco.

Trust but verify, yeah not in Treasonous GOP world.

How' s the saying go? The most dangerous four words in finance and markets are "It's different this time." Greenspan avoided that thinking for most of his career, but gave in later on, lowering interest rates to the 1% range when 3% would have sufficed. He also seemed to give a tacit endorsement to the Bush tax cuts, which added $4-5 trillion to the debt but produced so little economic benefit for average people that it would have worked better to just drop the money from a plane. Another thing that's not different this time is the tendency for unregulated markets to go in boom-bubble-panic-bust cycles, especially when wealth is concentrated and the few that have it complain that bubble areas are "the only thing getting a decent return right now." (another familiar refrain). That's because the mass market has shriveled up, as a reverse of the process Henry Ford tried to start. Back in the "good old days" before the depression the economy would regularly have bubbles and panics and painful reversals. Thanks to a whole host of characters including Greenspan, that bit of history has unfortunately been repeated.

The end result of the war on labor is the death of even the companies that actually paid over the cost of living as well. The ripping off of labor is the collapse. Ripping off labor produces huge profits but it is not sustainable. The companies that part timed American labor are the cause of this utter catastrophe. Right now, there are over 60% of the work force making less than half the cost of living. The cost of living outside of the big cities is 30 grand a year. But 62% of the labor in America makes $14,500 before taxes. How, exactly, is that sustainable? Bleeding labor may make your company look smart but the move to part American labor means that labor cannot make it through any month without using credit cards. The people did not know how bad off they were until they ran out of credit and wound up trying to pay off the cruel credit debt that the very people like Greenspan pushed on the people.

Neither you, your family or the government can live off credit cards. The companies are blaming everybody under the sun except themselves for the total economic catastrophe out there. They are the blame and the cause is the war on labor. If the Retail and other sectors simply raised the wages they pay to 18 an hour they will find that the first six or seven quarters they may lose money but in the end they will inject enough capital into the system to a cause a full recovery for all. The best long term solution that will ensure the survival of capitalism is giving everyone making less than the cost of living, now 62% of the work force, a pay raise the economy will boom until they forget how disastrous these foolish wage suppression schemes are. America cannot afford the war on labor any more. These companies need to fail and die and we need to demand tying wages to the cost of living.

At the heart of this mess is the notion that ideas are more important than intention. Every ism sounds great in written form. When ideas are implemented by the mind and filtered through the heart, the crucible remains the unknown quantity.
It's not the mind of mankind that needs mending, it's the hearts of men who lead us into the abyss of failure that we can't discern. That's why Christ is unique, he put the interests of others first, that's revolutionary. That's what's been missing regardless of grand ideas and political rhetoric. It all comes down to the intention of the heart. American captains of capitalism have failed miserably. Capitalism without a conscience is no better than communism without God. Same same. It's the pot calling the kettle black. Where shall we find ethics and morals taught ? In our educational system, religious institutions or on our own backs ? Apparently the latter. Not until truth and justice roar like a mighty waterfall will we hear the train a comin. Are you listening people ? Kepha

At the heart of this mess is the notion that ideas are more important than intention. Every ism sounds great in written form. When ideas are implemented by the mind and filtered through the heart, the crucible remains the unknown quantity.
It's not the mind of mankind that needs mending, it's the hearts of men who lead us into the abyss of failure that we can't discern. That's why Christ is unique, he put the interests of others first, that's revolutionary. That's what's been missing regardless of grand ideas and political rhetoric. It all comes down to the intention of the heart. American captains of capitalism have failed miserably. Capitalism without a conscience is no better than communism without God. Same same. It's the pot calling the kettle black. Where shall we find ethics and morals taught ? In our educational system, religious institutions or on our own backs ? Apparently the latter. Not until truth and justice roar like a mighty waterfall will we hear the train a comin. Are you listening people ? Kepha

Enter Your Comment I think greed and arrogance are at the center of all this. The sub-prime lenders knew exactly what they were doing as did the corporate heads that bought their product. Oil companies ride unheard of profits fueled by a combination of Little Bush's enabling of hedge fund investment in oil futures as well as a programmed shortage of refining capacity which was a partial result of the EPA's refusal to enable a new refinery to be built since the 1970s. The people noted here were literally intoxicated by profit. They could never have enough money under any circumstances. Even if we got rid of all of these people their ranks would immediately be filled be thousands of younger people brought up under the exact same values. These people believe they've done nothing wrong as is evidenced by their unrepentant nature in asking for handouts from the government. The big Wall Street firms continue to give lavish treatment to their executives and the banks don't take care of their problems debts they go and acquire other banks. Right now the rest of the world is suffering (along with this country) from all of these shortcomings. All this at a time when American prestige worldwide is probably at an all time low. Yet all of this will matter not. The profit addicts are still in charge and will find a new way to make more money and ultimately cause more damage to what is left of this country.

NOW, let us discuss how the little guys across the globe survive all of this. . .

So the Banks owe well over $200 Trillion dollars and the $4 trillion dollars of subprime mortgages (half of which was for poor credit, but should your car insurance be the same as the guy with 4 DWI's and 50% from the stated, no verification, option arm catagorey) is the cause of all this? If the fed took the money they have paid out so far $7.5 Trillion plus the $5 Trillion they took on when the took over Fannie and Freddie they have in essence spent $12.5 Trillion dollars on a market that was only $10 Trillion Dollars? Wow none of us should have a mortgage now since as taxpayers we all pay for it. Those who never had a mortgage are still paying and than we could take what was are Mortgage payments and buy cars, clothes or basically shop like drunk sailors for the next 5 years until the next financial abyss arises, notice all of the past examples? Asian Capital crisis in 1998 S& L crisis to name just 2.

So lets see...Greenspan promoted policies that pushes loans on folks and businesses that pardon the pun - had no business getting those loans. Then they promoted other policies to break up unions and make the middle class compete with not only non-union US workers but foreign worked they brought in my the millions on-shore and also offshore.

On top of that they bolted up entire factories and gave those jobs to the Chinese. You know - the jobs "American's just won't do" - that somehow we did with a smile for the last couple hundred years. We gave up bilateral fair trade between nations for something called 'free-trade' that didn't live up to the name since it's only free if you are rich while the rest of us get the shaft.

So average wages have been flat or declining for the last 15 years. Net effect - the middle class is being decimated.

The gap between the rich and poor has never been wider and Greenspan didn't understand about greed? What an idiot or great liar...or both.

Lets go back to taxing the cr** out of the ultra wealthy, bring back our factories/industries, STOP ALL IMMIGRATION (legal H/L visa and illegals) and see where we stand 15 years from now. My guess is we'll be a tad better than if we tried to continue as a country that made nothing and only consumed via loans from those we gave our jobs to.

You are right on target, trust but no icons.

I felt that if Greenspan couldn't explain things in an easily understandable manner, he was either lying or he didn't know what was going on on.

Like any other economic system or ideology capitalism has its virtues and vices. Like any other industry, finance and big business needs regulations and limiitations.

Many years ago Schumpeter analyzed the main economic systems in "Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy". He found that each systme had defects, that is , there is no perfect economic system.

Schumpeter wrote several books on economic systems, and they are as fresh and pertinent now as they were when they were first written.

There's more to life than material wealth. And we have to learn to shed selfishness, arrogance, greed, and the like. No amount of gold will make us safe. An amoeba, small as it is, can wipe us out. Fate, unknown to us, can do us in. It doesn't matter how much planning we put into our lives. Karma rules. Do unto others. Or reap what you sow. Simple as that. Intellectuals, pundits, doctors, scientists, researchers, scholars, busy themselves over for generations, trying to decipher the mysteries of life. And all we get is gobbledygook. So far, they are still trying. Meantime, humbleness rules, contrary to popular belief. Conceit and its kin are due for a mighty fall. Ask OJ, Boesky, Milken, the Russian nouveau rich. They'll tell ya. It's cold outside. Meantime, I'm feeding the inner mounting flame, a la John McLaughlin and his friends.

The article gives far too much credit to these "Capitolist's" for having brains Greenspan included, unless of course you consider the fact all have become very wealthy and now have little concern for the economy of the rest of America.
In a consumer driven economy systematically eliminating the middle class; the "consumers" and the resulting failure of that economy was predictable many years ago and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that

The great thing about capitalism is that, by nature, it punishes greed and fraud. The US capitalistic economy will emerge stronger than ever, and it won???t be because of Obama or his cabinet, which Newsweek, despite warning about icons, are drooling over. It will be because of the American people.

http://www.usefulopinions.blogspot.com

The great thing about capitalism is that, by nature, it punishes greed and fraud. The US capitalistic economy will emerge stronger than ever, and it won???t be because of Obama or his cabinet, which Newsweek, despite warning about icons, are drooling over. It will be because of the American people.

http://www,usefulopinions.blogspot.com

Summers is merely a run of the mill Neo-Keynesian. Geithner as the head of the NY Fed was suppose to be watching over CITI. Obama, no one knows what he stands for other than "getting elected" at any cost.

David Smick is more likely the man with the answers.