To Fix Islam, Start From the Inside

aardwolf,i enjoyed the post,very civil and informative

Despite the name calling the economic debate has been interesting, we have went off on a tangent. The topic is about "fixing" islam. I still stand by the argument that the religon is not broken. I find the idea that all the problems in the islamic world could be solved by educating women to be inadequite. most middle eastern states have schools for men and women, the countries with radicalism, have no quality education for anyone, or if they do, in the case of pakistan, they are limited to advantaged areas of the country and do not reach the frontiers.

didnt take you long to get to angry name calling did it. I am guessing by your tone you dont like to be disagreed with. regardless having live in several of these arab countries all I have seen is squalor and privation, so this wealth is either very well hidden or in the hands of a very select few people. as for the value of the US, I will still disagree completely. disneyland alone is worth several billion, add Microsoft and you have close to a trillion dollors in ust 2 corporations. On the other hand, I currently reside in an arab country that does not remove trash from its neighborhoods, and most if not all the housing is run down. I can walk around my block and see how poor this country is. I will concede that the kings palace is quite nice, and his neighborhood is well maintained..but living here amongst the local population. this is foul even compared to West Virginia mountain towns. The gold standard died out years ago and most wealth is effectively virtual anyway. In more eco-friendly countries you will see mass transit and alot more electric cars than even a year ago. Unrest in the arab street is not caused by excessive wealth. these folk are poor. they have few opportunities, they rely on foreign forces to protect them. In the Clinton era the United States had a surplus, 8 years of republican adventurism pretty much ended that. consider hat in gross tonnage for shipping the middle east has none. nor does any country in the middle east have the yards to produce them. without massive western investment in their infrastructure, their oil would continue to sit in the ground,. all around you are still only considering and comparing against the United States, I am guessing that is because either you dont like the US or thats where you have the most data to draw from. fossil fuels are of limited quantity and when they are gonem they are simply gone. China will adapt fairly easily, it is a vast country, but 80% or so of its population lives within 100 miles of the coast and can and does use mass transportation well, just go spend a week in shanghai, it is easy to get anywhere you want without a car. defensless countries never negotiate from a position of strength, there was and could be again a time when strong countries simply took what they wanted. The west may never again muster up that sort of will, but the Chinese have shown in several cases already that they are more than willing to use force to take what they want. Russia is gaining strength as well. the middle east relies on world demand, if the demand where to drop or western society become more sensitive to theri energy needs...the demand could put the value of all that oil down pretty far on the ladder, China also lacks the fleet to come get most of that oil. so lets try to keep the debate civil.

Alternative fuels--Ha Sure keep dreaming punk
Do you realize that China and India are going to have an additional 800 million people hit the middle class in the next decade---Do you really think that they are going to use "alternative fuels" for cars etc? No they are going to burn oil more than you can imagine. Every economist in the world belives oil will hit 200 dollars a barrel within 5 years because of this. I am sorry but Alaska and Texas have no where NEAR the amount of oil that the persian gulf has---Roughly 25 times the amount of reserves of the USA and South America COMBINED.
Get real pal.
Do you realize the largest transfer of wealth in human history has occurred in the past 8 years. From rich western countries to arab counties.
Do some math pal. I told you about the trillions or dollars in cash and gold as well as fossil fuels. Now think about this smart guy. The value of the USA is about 6-7 trillion---that is everything (all buildings and facilities in the USA) smart guy. The debt is nearing 10 trillion. Who has buying that debt? The chinese and arabs. The arabs have ZERO debt and they are flush into the dozens of trillions in CASH and GOLD---Do you get it? Add the EU and still way behind the hard cash the arabs have. Now add the UK's and USA PERSONAL debt numbers and you will see an additional 15 trillion of debt. This excludes the rest of the EU which is floundering as well.
So you can add the debts of all poor muslim countries and thier debt doesn't even get to 400 billion.
It will take the USA and the EU nearly 50 YEARS of aggressive growth and principal debt payments to cut the debt in HALF thats a fact.
While arabs have no debt and can invest from a position of strength.
You need to understand basic economics dude. If you are paying treasury bills with hefty interest charges that takes away your principal to invest in other things. The arabs don't have to do that. The gold and hard currency doesn't require any interest expense and is LIQUID.
They are in much much much better economic condition than we are in.
Add together all the poorest muslim countries and they still blow away the hard cash that the west has (which is by the way about zero right now)
The USA faces much stiffer compation from the likes of China and India and will lose soon. All the while the chinese and indians will buy arab oil---even if the USA doesnt.
Who needs diversity? When you have trillions of barrels of oil that will be needed for the next 75 years at least---with or without the USA---who cares about diversity? When the last barrel is sold decades from now they will have climbed upon the largest ppile of wealth the world will ever see.
Arabs will sell oil for 200 dollars a barrel with a cost of about 9 dollars a barrel one day soon.

I would also challenge that assertation, as I dont think total assets are properly included, particularly in the area of precious metals and minerals, nuclear reactors, military and civil assets, intellectual properties,technologies, real estate and land..infrastructure. Alaska and Texas also have vast oil and gas deposits as well as the national reserve which is in itself immense. the relative value of fossil fuels will begin to drop dramatically as alternate fuels take their place. Remember the situation in Bahrain when the Japanese developed cultured pearls and nearly doomed its economy. diversification in the arab middle east economies is lagging greatly behind the asian economic powers and is far behind the west.

having money and a strong economy are not the same thing...they export little and import near everything, and if you average it out, islamic countries also include bangledesh, poorest country on earth, most of africa, equally poor, afghanistan, dirt poor. cant just count the arabic countries..arabs are a minority in islam

Aardwolf---Islamic countries are the weakest in "economics" .
I disagree completely with that. The Arabs control about 15 trillion dollars worth of cash---2 times the value of the entire USA!!!
If you consider oil and gas in the ground and you factor in Iran, Iraq, and Dubai this value will exceed 40 trillion dolalrs.
5-6 times the value of the USA.
They have no debt like the USA and they have most of thier holdings in Cash or Gold.

There is simply no hope in the muslim world until they take control of their own destinies. There are glaring differences between such islamic countries as Bahrain and the Sudan, and I have a suspicion that religon is not the actual cause of this. poor economic situations are more to blame. There is also a bit of arrogance in the title to assume that islam even needs to be "fixed" that assumes it is broken to begin with. as for the dispute between India and pakistan, well consider that they are more or less similar culturally. Read the works of Jinnah and the fathers of modern pakistan and you will see that the creation of a muslim majority state to seperate it from the Hindu state was not as carefully conceived as once thought..the lack of a concrete decision on Jammu and Kashmir, and the lack of a secure geographical land shows the overall weakness of the split. most of the islamic world operates more or less under a stable set of law. The islamic culture also has influence from specific regional culture, so the "education" of women argument has not much to do with islam. they werent educated pre islam either. radicalism is caused by perceived or real injustice. If the koran really says half what the jihadi groups believe then they are not "radicals" but simply devout following their faith. the islamic empire once brought almost a quarter of the known world under its heel and enjoyed centuries of enlightened dominance over the west and military expansion over the east, even recovering well from its near annhiliation at the hands of Mongol warlords. like all great empires its collapse was slow and painful,. this led to traumatic events that stripped dignity and liberty from a once proud civilization. Correct me if I am wrong but I have heard that once land has been occupied by muslims it must always belong to them. this would explain a large part of the grief in Israel, pakistan, India, the sudan, and the Balkans. basically if a culture or nation is strong enough to subdue their muslim population it is relatively peaceful, provided the islamic minority is given some lattitude in its way of life. China is the one execption as it is strong enough and has the will to completely subdue its muslim population. India has the power, but has the disadvantage of being a democratic republic which forces it to behave as a civilized nation as opposed to simply slaughtering them out of hand, like the Chinese. to sum up..islam is not broken, thus does not require fixing. It should take a long hard look at itself and modify its overt policies to conform with reality, islam is the weakest society globally in economics, military power, and political capital. It cannot behave as though it is a monolithic entity allowing the rest of the world to be free of islam at its sufferance.

So you want True Hindu and other Indians to take the 'high ground' and treat others with respect before judging, when you yourself are acting with prejudice and being disrespectful towards them?

By the way only the gays and the hindu have actually directly responded to me---Why? Of course its because I am spot on, right on the money!!

True Hindu
Treat humsns (ALL HUMANS INCLUDING UNTOUCHABLES) with respect and then judge others. How many people have suffered because of castes? How many people have been beaten or deprived simply because they belong to the wrong caste.
Fix that garbage and then you can judge others
. Let me give you a suggestion Mr. Hindu--- member of the world's largest "democracy"--lol
Treat ALL people the same whether they are muslim, hindu,or "untouchables"
Mr Indian "superpower" feed your millions of destitute people before you speak of being a superpower. Super
power my foot, 80% of indians still believe in a caste system and still kill girl babies everyday---Fix that Hindu then talk.
10 poor muslim men took over a city of 19 million---- India a superpower???

Hi bholenath,
i might have also got irritated to say something like that.
this guy freddiek is a muslim freak.
re is running on this site like a mad dog...chasing a car....
i am sure he will reply me again.
liek a mad dog......

Now i got it:-)
Freddiek,
you must be Manji's lesbian lover in hijab....lol

People are not ready to take even good suggestions. All the reader is saying is provide more freedom to women. More education to Women. Give them choice. Let them decide what is right for them. Whats wrong with that?? There is no need to be vulgar and bad words.

Ratnam
You must be in "never never land"
Great ideas!
Hey maybe you can cure cancer too?

I am shocked and surprised by the amount of racism in the comments section. Educating women is an accepted way of advancing society. Investing in mothers, means that the whole family is raised with values which do not promote knee jerk reactions. Just like George Bush went to war without considering how he was going to end it. The fact that Manji is gay has nothing to do with recommending an investment in women. Clearly Irshad is not talking in this article about how to remove idiots from power in the western world, but how to improve muslim society. Her response is one that focusses on encouraging Muslims to advance their rights and increase respect for children and women. This is not to say that all women have won those rights here in the US but clearly there is a greater chance in a democracy than a society where women have no legal protection.

I think it is time that Muslims living in Western Society not define themselves merely by trying to hold on to the post but recognise that society has evolved and make the sorts of advancements and contributions that they made at other times in history. There are many amazing Muslim thinkers who may be culturally Muslim but not enforcing ideas that take away rights from individuals. Modern muslim society has to make the effort to create this movement especially wealthy muslims who are busy making money.

As for the racists, please help yourselves by refraining from retarded comments. Don't make yourselves look worse.


Ratnam

Is there such a thing as fixing a religion? The article tends to describe women in Islam with prejiduce and relies on extreme examples. The writer fails to separate religion from cultural norms, traditions, political systems, national heritage and geographical locations. Islam covers many lands with diversed cultures. The rights of Muslim women in Afghanistan differs from the rights of Muslim women in the levant area (Lebanon, Syria, Turkey.)- because one must
take into consideration the cultural and political elements. Women in many areas of the world have been imprisioned by prejiduce and cruelty. In India female baby girls are still buried alive because Indian societies has long favored boys who do not require heavy dowry payments that bankrupts poor Indian families- Whose religion should we fix for this barbaric act? let's fix ignorance through educating young girls throughout the under-developed countries. Teach them to think freely, to understand their rights, to be proud of their gender and to fight for their social and political rights. Let's stop blaming religion and instead use it as a tool to empower women- It is one of the many good ways to fight radicalism worlwide.

Barbara.