To Fix Islam, Start From the Inside

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: fightignorance @ 01/03/2009 7:07:20 AM

    Islam does not need fixing. Practicing Muslims know this. It is ignorance that must be handled; be it the ignorance of those living in Muslim lands yet not obeying the laws of Islam, or those in positions of power that continue to intrepret and impose religion to serve their needs, or the western politicians and media who love to involve any episode of a Muslim gone wrong on Islam (though we never have the same tendency to blame Christianity when Christians commit attrocities). I'm afraid articles like this just don't help. Highlight the super-extreme instances and get ratings, yet forego the actual so called effect you are trying to implore-uhmm the article was about winning over the Muslims right? Though the article wondered off without making a point, I shall keep mine simple: Islam does not need fixing. Muslim women don't need Western interference.

    • Posted By: F7711 @ 01/03/2009 4:09:00 PM

      They don't need western influence, I'm sure they prefer to live as second class citizens, slaves to dirty men ?

  • Posted By: rjones @ 01/01/2009 10:30:17 AM

    Islamic men must be the most insecure men on the planet to go to such extreme and violent methods to assure that the only way they can keep their women is by threat of public lashing and death.
    Not to mention how they force the women to cover themselves from head-to-toe so their fellow Muslim brothers won't be tempted to try to steal each others wives.
    To live in such fear and distrust of their women seems to me to be a pretty patheticway to exist.
    No wonder they hate the world.

    • Posted By: sanileo @ 01/03/2009 1:47:49 AM

      what a silly and childish comment. did you actually fathom your points before you laid it down. islam as a system doesnt need fixing. our human endeavours need fixing and definately the democracy that we so much espew

      • Posted By: F7711 @ 01/03/2009 4:04:07 PM

        You fool, Islam is a horrible disease, it needs more than fixing, it needs to die.

    • Posted By: sanileo @ 01/03/2009 1:47:14 AM

      what a silly and childish comment. did you actually fathom your points before you laid it down. islam as a system doesnt need fixing. our human endeavours need fixing and definately the democracy that we so much espew

  • Posted By: Second_Opinion @ 01/02/2009 6:58:17 AM

    .



    The author here is all wet. To suppose that the giving of microcredit to Islamic women will somehow end the terrorism pervasive in the Muslim world is to drown in the Kool-Aid. Women in the Muslim world, from what we in the West can see, are the most downtrodden segment of that population. They are beaten, have acid thrown in their faces, and summarily shot - or, as the author points out - stoned to death.

    Marx had it right when he said that "religion is the opiate of the masses", for that is what it truly is. Islam, in particular, seems bent on resolutely staying in the ninth century with all its accompanying ignorance. Indeed, religion flourishes best in the cesspool of ignorance. For years the spread of Islam in the US was through prisons.

    And it matters not what is written in any book, including the Q'uran and the Bible. They are both works of pure and utter fiction, written by men to persuade, manipulate, and control other - ignorant - men. Are we really to believe that some downtrodden Islamic woman learned to read and, in the reading of a holy passage, was able to instantly stop her husband from beating her - a custom he had previously enjoyed with impunity? I seriously doubt it.

    That is not to say that the Muslim world's natural state is ignorance. On the contrary, Muslim empires of the past have displayed great learning, art, and tolerance. So what happened? They threw it all away and now the shattered remanants of what used to be demand the world's "respect"! Please.

    Nor does Islam speak with a single voice. In fact, the Islamic silence since 9/11 has been defeaning. This is the clearest sign of its true sentiments. No principal Islamic cleric nor congregation has publicly condemned either the acts of 9/11 or the ensuing global terrorism. Why not?

    Islam would not be where it is today were it not for the West's collective dependence on oil. We in the West have the knowledge and talent to free ourselves from this drug but, sadly, we seem to lack the will. Now that oil prices have fallen our determination to free ourselves will be sapped all the more. How fitting that such a black, smelly, sticky, polluting, and explosive substance should be concentrated in the Middle East. If there is a god, he surely has a sense of humor - not to mention irony!

    Finally, we should have seen it coming. We certainly seem to have had some intelligence that a threat using airliners was imminent in 2201. But, beyond that, we should have seen it coming when the Marine baracks were suicide bombed in Beirut. We should have seen it with Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. We should have seen it at the Munich Olympics. Had we acted decisively then, we might not be in the fix we find ourselves in today.

    Unfortunately, we find ourselves dealing with rabid dogs. Like any rabid animal, the best way to deal with it is to put it down.



    .

    • Posted By: F7711 @ 01/03/2009 3:57:44 PM

      I could not agree more, well said.

    • Posted By: Saul522 @ 01/03/2009 2:13:02 PM

      Secon_Opinion, please bother educating yourself about the world.

      In the West, plenty of women are brutalized and abused. Rapes, beatings, physical and emotional abuse, deaths, and more are very common and the rest of the world feels just as sorry for Western women as you feel sorry for Muslim women. In the West, women are still hitting that glass ceiling at work and are paid lower than their male counterparts even though they have the same education, same experience, and same capability. Women in the West are abused when their bodies are used to sell everything from cigarettes to cars to houses. Popular media forces women to try and fit into the "accepted" image of the ideal body proportions, and countless women young and old who cannot achieve those proportions have to live with low self esteem, and many even commit suicide. So please, remember that when you point fingers at others, there are three fingers pointing right back at you.

      You are also oblivious to the many Muslim imams, congregations, and publications in America as well as all over the Muslim world that have condemned the 9/11 attacks and the ideology that spawns such actions.

      And lastly, for you to parrot Manji's assertions about the "problems" with Islam and how to "fix itt" shows your own deep level of ignorance - the problem is ignorance and culture, and not Islam. It was the same Islam that was around when Muslims were at the head of vast empires for hundreds of years. The problem, as Manji failed to identify [as she always fails to do] is culture and ignorance.

      You talk of putting down rabid dogs, and yet you talk like one. Put down that rabid dog inside of you by educating it some more. Try traveling in the Muslim world, and expand your circle of educated Muslim acquaintances. You might learn a thing or tow about having an informed and educated opinion.

      Peace.

  • Posted By: malikrose3 @ 01/02/2009 9:08:34 AM

    First of all let me clarify certian facts about Irshad Manji (the writer). Miss Manji I watched your program "Faith without Fear" on public TV (CHANNEL 13) a while ago and learnd about you. Since then I have been trying to contact you but haven't been successfull.
    Its shame, Disgrace and Tragic that we the Muslims have individuals like Miss. manji, who have no understanding of the teaching of Islam, who have little to no understanding of the fundamentals of Islam and have no understandings about the logic and philosophy behind the strict rules about punishment and rewards. Not only this the same so called new ideologists and liberal Muslims never read the message of islam (Quran) fully and only talk selectively about certian harsh and strict rules laid out about killing others, adultery, steeling and drinking alcohol. The very same unfortunate so called Muslim come with new and self created explanations of Islamic believes and teachings.
    Islam is the religion created for the welfare of mankind and the whole philosophy of Islamic teaching and rules and regulations are meant to create an ideal Human society where no one could hurt anyone, where follower enjoys equal rights, weher women have the rights to make decisions about their future and life, where women are protected from abuse and violence, where men are obligated to fullfill their responsibilities towards women. And above all its ISLAM that hedl DISOBEDIENCE of parents a major sin that Allah will not forgive. Its ISLAM that said a Muslim can't achieve a status of a beloved one to Allah and prophet Mohammad )peace be upon him) untill and unless he/she doesn't obey, respect and scarifice his.her needs for his/her mother's. And its ISLAM that forbids a Muslim even to raise his/her voice before their mother/parents.
    Miss. Manji islamic believes can't be ammended and interpreted based upon personal likes and dislikes. Islam makes five times prayers mendatory and your prayer (thanking god for the day in the morning after waking up, as you mentioned during your faith without fear interview) can't substitue it, Islamic obligation of ZAKAT is to creat a sense of sharing and inclusion of less fortunate in the society and nothing can substitu ite, Sacrifice (slaughtering of animals) on EID UL ADHA has to be carried out and nothing can substitue it. Similarly the concept of killing a killer is to creat a sense of value of human life, death for adultery is to keep human race clean and pure ( we in the US can very well see the significance of this based upon the fact that many social problems of western society are due to freedom of sex) Similarly prohibition of use of alcohol is for the same reasons, as it leads to many social problems due to fact after consuming alcohol an individual loses his judgement and can't differentiate right from wrong and we see lots of problems even traffic deaths due to alcohol consumption.
    Continued in next.

    • Posted By: F7711 @ 01/03/2009 3:56:01 PM

      Take your Islam and keep it back in the dark ages where it belongs. Islam is a CURSE. Mohammad is no more a prophet than my dog. Islam is a cult for the weak minded to be brainwashed. Muslims are the creators of their own problems. Don't blame the West for your ignorant religion and philosophies.

  • Posted By: FATJOEY @ 01/02/2009 7:18:42 AM

    ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN GOD IS NUTS ANYWAY? AT LEAST THE GENTILE'S WERE TOLERABLE,BUT THIS MUSLIM NONSENSE MUST BE STOPPED

  • Posted By: sawdustking @ 01/03/2009 3:19:56 PM

    Micro loans, while noble, will not put 430 million college educated Arabs to work. Even if they could it can only be implemented in countries already under American influence, like Afghanistan and Iraq. It's foolish to think that Iran, Saudi Arabia, or the Hamas leadership would accept or even allow American meddling in their internal affairs, unless of course they were forced to (see Afghanistan and Iraq). It would be better for moderate Muslim countries to try such an undertaking without the help of America as the author pointed out herself, "Even with Indonesia at the helm, some will smear the Alliance of the Interdependent as a handmaiden of U.S. imperialism." Therefore I find the whole premise of this article to be at best naive.

  • Posted By: rpearlston @ 01/03/2009 3:19:51 PM

    Nice try, Ms Manji, but Fatima Mernissi has been writing about this, as part of a broader plan, for more than 20 years now.

    Scheherazade goes west : different cultures, different harems ,

    Women's rebellion & Islamic memory

    Dreams of trespass : tales of a harem girlhood

    The forgotten queens of Islam

    Islam and democracy : fear of the modern world

    Women and Islam : an historical and theological enquiry

    The veil and the male elite : a feminist interpretation of women's rights in Islam

    Doing daily battle : interviews with Moroccan women

    Beyond the veil : male-female dynamics in modern Muslim society

    These are among Ms Mernissi's titles. She's a Moroccdan socialogist, trained in the USm and yes, she takes a broader look at the inequality of Muslim women within the Muslim world than does Ms Manji.

  • Posted By: deMuse @ 01/03/2009 3:16:08 PM

    and still; is there not a Muslim who will say it is a bad thing to rape 13 year olds, bury them up to their necks and stone them to death! This is not only happening in Somalia, but in Iran and anywhere that is ruled by Islamic clergy...Shame on you all...

  • Posted By: ross1972 @ 01/03/2009 2:44:59 PM

    To saul 522.
    I agree that no nation religion or region is exempt from social problems caused by culture and ignorance.I cannot claim to have read the entire quran but i have read parts of it as well as a number of books written about islam and especially mohammed who i think was a remarkable man.The problem however is not entirely culture or ignorance,there are parts of the Quran which if read and interpreted literally can lead to the idea that violence or jihad is sometimes necessary and should be prosecuted until the other side is defeated and made to feel subdued.Another issue as you mention is with the Hadith and sunnah of the prophet which some muslims seem to feel have justified their actions and beliefs about other religions.
    .So the problem that really need to be fixed is how to deal with individuals or groups that single out these passages to justify their actions ,because they are not wrong,they are muslims and they can point to chapter and verse in the quran,hadith and Sunnah where their actions and beliefs can be justified to other muslims.
    Furthermore i know of many muslims and imams who after 9/11 spoke out against those that commited those horrible acts because they felt it was done by zionists not muslims and who took a long time to accept any evidence to the contrary
    .In the end i suspect we do have something in common besides being human and that is that we are fed up with liars and fools.

    • Posted By: Saul522 @ 01/03/2009 3:13:18 PM

      Ross,

      What many of the commenters here fail to realize is that in Muslim eyes, Islam is not just a religion as non-Muslims would define it; i.e. religion being a set of beliefs and rituals. For the vast majority of Muslims, Islam is a way of life, and in their languages [more than just Arabic] the term they use to describe Islam does not translate to the word "religion" in English, but rather it translates to "a way of life" as best I can explain.

      Given all that, Muslims would be equally justified by blaming Christianity, or Judaism, or Democracy, etc. for problems caused by the West - just as many here [including Irshad Manji] are incorrectly blaming Islam for such a wide variety of problems. As I mentioned before, the problem is with ignorance on both sides. Popular western media often lists a litany of grievances with Islam and yet they fail to properly advise their readers about the underlying reasons for various Islamic teachings.

      An example I can think of is the common complaint that in Islam, women are given only half the wealth inheritance of men. This is often held up as proof that Islam discriminates against women. Yet, almost without exception, the authors or plaintiffs often fail to understand or even realize that in Islam, the reason why the man gets 2x the inheritance amount as a woman is because he is tasked with the responsibility of financially supporting his family members and household first, before he spends upon himself. The woman in contrast, has no responsibility to spend her own money on her own family, and in fact Islam allows her to do whatever she wants with her money.
      Many of my male Muslim colleagues have joked that such a situation means that the men actually end up with less inheritance to spend for their own wants and desires than the women, and as such, its viewed as being unfair to men and yet I don't think you or I see any of the Muslim men [or non-Muslims] complaining about this.

      Another example is the issue regarding adultery or fornication. Yes, Islam does have some very harsh and brutal punishments for these deeds, but what many people fail to realize is that in the interests of fairness and justice, Islam deliberately set the bar extremely high. For someone to accuse another couple of fornication or adultery, Islam has stated that there must be four adult and sane witnesses to the actual act of penetration. If there are not four witnesses, then the ones who made the complaint or accusation face severe penalties for disturbing the peace. Now, between you and me - really, how many people are actually going to be in the room when a man and woman are having intimate sexual relations?

      I could go on and on about many other examples of common complaints against Islam, of which many of its detractors have not the slightest clue about. Like I said, the problem is ignorance on both sides, and a stubborn unwillingness to educate oneself.

      Peace.

  • Posted By: deMuse @ 01/03/2009 3:09:51 PM

    and yes by reading history, one can find that so called Arab lands did not belong to Arabs but were the property of the Ottoman Sultan. And that Arabs lived as migratory tribes mostly. Arabs nations were only culturaly sophisticated when their populations were diverse in every meaning of the world.

  • Posted By: deMuse @ 01/03/2009 2:59:12 PM

    to Awaz: The problem is the Muslim men, who think by killing as many people as possible, who do not think like themselves, they will solve the problems and end up in haven with all those Huri"s.(virgins of 13 years old like those the Afgani men can marry)

  • Posted By: ross1972 @ 01/03/2009 2:56:07 PM

    Just a note to the interested,we often look at this situation and largely blame the americans for current affairs in the middle east so i humbly suggest they read a bit about what the British and the other european colonial powers did to this region in the 19th century and for another eye opener they should read the history and effects of world war 1(in which America barely even had a presence) to get a better idea of what caused this territorial firestorm.

  • Posted By: mbsnldjlnv @ 01/03/2009 2:51:41 PM

    This is the right direction as women in Islam are treated lowly by the men in uneducated regions. Someone sitting in the USA cannot comment on this ground reality as he has not been there or seen it. I know this for a fact. In western countries, men are educated, women are educated, and they are sensible, not fundamentalists. They know their purpose of life and the extremists don't. They have no sense at all.
    But the one problem that remains is that for women to get educated, men must first be liberal. Can you believe this - The taliban, in Pakistan non-government controlled areas have not allowed girls to go to school! They have also asked all girls to marry the militants otherwise they will be raped and murdered. This is Islam for you - Misinterpreted and Violent! Can i this be a religion. We need a fix.

  • Posted By: awaz @ 01/03/2009 2:46:11 PM

    The west can help Muslim women by one simple act: stop killing their men! Even as I react to Manji's politically correct, perfectly tailored article(to make it acceptable to NW), Muslim women are getting their lives made miserable by the non-stop killings of their fathers, brothers, husbands, and sons. As a matter of fact, only a while ago, an Iraqi TV female
    worker was shot and left for dead by US soldiers in Baghdad.

  • Posted By: LimeyBloke @ 01/03/2009 12:23:44 AM

    @user82958 said
    "How to fix Islam? The arrogance of the editors at Newsweek is breathtaking."

    I quote from the article: "But as a faithful, feminist Muslim, I..." Unless I am mistaken, Irshad Manji would appear to be the person who wrote the article, not the editors at Newsweek. Her alleged arrogance is not clear to me

    • Posted By: Saul522 @ 01/03/2009 2:41:55 PM

      Why don't you talk to Newsweek and ask if the editors .... actually edited the article?

      The actual authors never get to publish 100% of what they write. The articles and their titles are often edited for clarity, brevity, perception, slant, tone, and much more.

  • Posted By: there wolf @ 01/03/2009 2:38:18 PM

    It's sad to see Americans with absolutely NO idea of the mess that THEY are causing in the modern world. A select few countries decide that Israel gets Arab land after WWII. Now they complain when the original landowners want it back. At least the Arabs stick to their goals, as opposed to America's aimless foreign policy. Maybe they should LEARN a little bit more about the world they want to dominate. Not that it'll ever happen. Israel's all grown up now. Let them stand on their own or at least quit supplying weapons to them. It's a starting point. The U.S. will eventually figure out they can't extinguish a fire by pouring gasoline on it. We're ALL humans on this speck of dirt in the cosmos, folks. Let's try and act like it. Maybe RELIGION should be abolished, seeing how it's caused more conflict than it's really worth......Just a thought.

  • Posted By: saj_alex@yahoo.com @ 01/02/2009 6:20:02 PM

    Unfortunatley Irshad Manji, like other progressive muslims, has almost no clout among the Ummah (communtiy of believers). She would probably be considered a radical, or certainly at least an oddity by the vast majority of muslims. Despite her views being printed in western media, the Islamic world is not listening to her voice. Essentially she is one of those lone voices crying out in the wilderness, that only the West hears and engages with. If the muslim community ever did start to take her seriously, she would likely eventually have a fatwa issued against her. Islam shows no sign of being able to effect significant positive change in the near or medium term ... and that is unfortunate for everyone.

    • Posted By: Saul522 @ 01/03/2009 2:37:49 PM

      Actually, if you talk to many educated Muslims, both in the West as well as in the Muslim world, they will tell you that the reason why Manji and her like are not taken seriously is because she's simply an opportunist who doesn't mind conflating separate and distinct issues in order to generate controversy and sensationalism - all just to get some attention.

      Case in point is the title of this article - the problem is with ignorance amongst Muslim masses and cultural practices, both of which are confused with actual Islamic teachings. The problem is with some Muslims, and not with Islam, otherwise the current status quo in the Muslim world would have been the only status quo since the time of Muhammad. And yet as we can see it was not, because the same Islam that is around now was around since the beginning, and Muslims were leaders in the sciences, arts, philosophy, medicine, and much more, for hundreds of years.

  • Posted By: DrewCAENG @ 01/02/2009 3:36:07 PM

    "fight the infidels until all resistance is destroyed" infidels in the Koran representing all "non believers" -Koran as translated by Gombrich into English. The Koran preaches violence and anyone who says it doesnt isnt being honest with themselves, hats off to the majority non-fundamentalist Islam followers but if countries can still stone women to death, Hezbolla can still hav it in their charter that Isreal does not exist then the majority might need to grow up further and although the old and new bible have through history been interpreted for and in some cases still is for appalling reasons the relative "infancy" of Islam (600ish AD) makes the fundamentalist in our modern society all the more unreasonable, unwaivering and just different.

    • Posted By: Saul522 @ 01/03/2009 2:32:59 PM

      DrewCAENG - please educate yourself on the nuances of those quoted verses before you parrot them so blindly. That specific verse you quote was restricted to a particular time and place, and is not a general command.

      The problem with many of my fellow non-Muslims is that they frequently quote verses out of context; many of these verses are or were about specific incidents or times. In the Quran for example there is a verse that tells the Muslims not to come to prayer when they are drunk, and yet every Jack and Jill knows that Islam forbids the consumption of alcohol. Taking that verse at face value will confuse many ignorant people, and will provide an excuse for others. Educating yourself on any subject matter before talking about it is standard operating procedure in all civilized societies. Take note.

  • Posted By: wildechild66 @ 01/02/2009 1:59:48 PM

    Although I am not a Muslim, I have many Muslims friends, mostly women. Some were raised in the States, others in Pakistan; one still lives in Saudi Arabia. In our discussions about religion, these women have told me time and again that they do not see Islam as being inherently denigrating to women. It is important to note that, in the Qur'an, when God gives commandments, the masculine AND feminine plurals are used--because in Arabic (as in many other languages) the masculine can be used generally. Women are explicitly included as having rights and responsibilities.
    Granted, parts of Islam are harsh, and can be off-putting to Westerners. However, there is a reason that four out of five converts to Islam in the United States are women. I dare say it is because those women, unlike Ixor and Montedoro, understand that true Islam means following the spirit, not just the letter, of the law.

    • Posted By: ziaislam @ 01/02/2009 4:30:47 PM

      So correct. In Koran, the number of times the word Men and Women are mentioned equal number of times. THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT WOMEN IN ISLAM!!!

      • Posted By: F7711 @ 01/03/2009 1:44:32 PM

        What does it matter how many times they are mentioned in a book when the reality of their lives is so brutal.
        Look at this picture and tell me it does not bother you.

        http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/08/16/PH2008081602207.jpg

        • Posted By: Saul522 @ 01/03/2009 2:25:55 PM

          F7711, you are probably the most insistent and most ignorant hate-monger in this entire discussion thread, out of all the dozens or even hundreds of commenters.

          The picture you posted is not what Islam orders, its rather representative of cultural practices in certain Muslim countries. If you go to other Muslim countries you'll find all different kinds of dress for women, and some of them are completely different from what you claim.

          If you really want to promote real solutions, then try being part of the solution by educating yourself, instead of being part of the problem by making such stubbornly ignorant and maliciously hateful remarks.

  • Posted By: Buckwaas @ 01/03/2009 2:24:35 PM

    How to fix Islam - What a title! People with dark glasses will see only darkness. May He guide the author!

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse