"Hunting is evil legitimized." Leo Tolstoy
"Hunting is evil legitimized." Leo Tolstoy
I find it absolutely amazing as to how you could publish such an article that has almost no scientific truth or backing. The hunting industry has helped the world keep many wild animals that would have been wiped out without the support of those who hunt. There are many species that would have little chance of survival without those who love to hunt them. While it is true that it may be more difficult to find what would be described as a trophy in some species it it usually due to the careless encroachment of people who do not care about the wildlife that causes down grading of antlers or horns that hunters prize. Without the efforts of money of hunters many species would already be gone from their habitats. Hunters do not deplete the resource they enhance it with the money they spend and the care they have for the animals they harvest. Jerry Schronce.
In many ways that is true, but there is also the issue of only going for trophies. Like the best gardeners who save the seeds of their best crops, allowing them to fully reproduce, hunters need to preserve the biggest, strongest and healthiest of the species, not kill them - stopping them from reproducing. We need reeducation for hunters, so they don't have their egos attached to the size of their kill.
Exactly right! Thank you.
FYI: I eat very little meat and do not, by any means ,support factory-farmed meat or any other animal abuse. On that we agree. My point is that ANY hunting, for the fun of it, is repulsive. As I stated, there will be many statements here justifying hunting. Seems they have already begun. My father hunted, my husband hunted years ago, then stopped when he evolved. I fail to see the need for a gun in a SPORT, even if it is for food.
Then how are some rural people going to eat? And how would you propose that they get their food without guns. You mean your husband stopped when he realized that he was not the dominate one in the relationship and "evolved" into the submissive that he has become. It easy to condemn something when one does not take in the other point to an activity.
So, you think her husband is so weak that if he doesn't hunt it's not because HE decided he didn't want to. Only manly men that are not whipped hunt, all others are weak, timid and dominated by women, right? The can't decide on their own not to hunt ,for their own reasons.
I'm not against hunting, and that is just a very narrow minded way to think. People have all kinds of reasons for doing or not doing things. One shouldn't assume the reasons.
Silent; Since you don't know my husband, sounds like you might be a little insecure; which is why you NEED to hunt. Actually, his revelation came when he offered to take a friend, who was terminally ill, on a last deer hunt. The friend refused, stating that he now valued all life more and just couldn't bring himself to kill anymore. I know, sounds pretty wussy huh? Why does one partner have to be more dominant than the other anyway? Ever hear of equality?
Actually this is not evolution but selective breeding. Evolution would involve one of the critters evolving a bullet proof hide. That's about as likely as man evolving from pond scum. But then again maybe pigs really will someday sprout wings and fly.
Obviously you don't understand evolution, or you would know that selective breeding IS a form of evolution, human driven.
hee hee hee even the straw man you're arguing against has more brains than you
Those with "the hunting mentality" are being selectively thinned as well. For pete's sake, even cabelas, calls it "harvesting." Trophy hunting is barbaric. Those who say they like to get out and experience nature, as an excuse for hunting, are not bright enought to do it without a gun. Who are they kidding, it's nothing but a macho thing. Real men don't kill defenseless animals. Then there is the "I eat the meat" group. Baloney, you can go to the store and buy meat a lot cheaper than what it costs to buy all the hunting paraphanalia. Hunters, no matter what the facts, are going to come up with all their helping the environment, it's healthy etc. reasons for continuing this caveman, knuckle dragging pursuit. I'm waiting to hear all the justifications to come.
Well be thankful that you live where you can got to a store and purchase food. If you ever have the chance to visit a poor rural area where shooting for food is mandatory and the only thing you can hope for is a handout from a local group or neighbors, you might re-think the angle about the whole macho BS.
I agree that this person doesn't understand hunting, but the hunters need to understand genetics too. I'm thinking that they need to be taught that getting the biggest one is a bad thing, and if they want to hunt for food to go for the ones that aren't so big and healthy, like the animal predators do. They go for the ones that are easier to get, the less large and healthy. The attachment to the "trophies" is the problem, not hunting itself. If for food, then it makes sense. If only for trophies, then it's a problem.
Sounds to me that hunters need to become like the gardeners that save seeds. They don't harvest the ones that are perfect, with the traits they want the most. They let them "go to seed" - in other words, reproduce as much as possible.
How that can be done with hunters is beyond my ability to regulate, but it must be done somehow. Perhaps if people would quit hunting for "trophies" and go for food instead... but that would kill the macho bragging rights, yes?
Sport hunting is an abomination. Hunting for subsistence is unnecessary today. Let the predators keep populations in check.
what predators? They've all been killed off to allow the unchecked suburban sprawl and shopping malls. See the earlier post about the effect of reintroducing wolves to Yellowstone -- the author presents the facts very well.
Predators can be humans, i.e. people hunting for food. Sport hunting is like football as entertainment, vicarious channelling of aggression.
The concerns raised are legitimate, but not as applicable to game bird, rabbit, squirrel and other populations and this should have been recognized in the article. Additionally, it was a major over-sight to not state that habitat destruction is the number one cause of fish and wildlife declines world-wide - not hunting. Non-hunters contribute to habitat loss and degradation in far greater numbers than hunters, for obvious reasons. Conversely, hunting and fishing licenses fund habitat protection and restoration and have allowed the U.S. to establish the National Wildlife Refuge System.
P.S. Who ARE you people trying to comment on this article???!!! Un-fit individuals that persist in the human population at great cost to the common good.
Congratulations Chris S you have successfully figured out how and the first to add Palin???s name into a hunting story. A true lib you are, however I did say intelligent female hunter. Fantasy ? No, I do believe my experience on foreign policy is far more advance because I can see Utah from my front porch.
Yes I do have a P.E.T.A bumper sticker on my Diesel powered Dodge complete with gun rack, but you have to look at the fine print, People Eating Tasty Animals.
I think enough people have pointed out the flaws in the story and its research but you have to look at where it is printed. Newsweek, the leader in scientific reporting. LOL
lib: Now that Utah comment was really funny.
" you end up leaving essentially a bunch of losers doing the breeding." sounds like what has happened to the human race. That's how we got George Bush.
Good one!
Not actually - GHW and Barb were fine gene donors. What happened to W was that he was "edumacated" by the Liberal Elites that taught him it's better to get along, than to WIN. As a result we got a liberal in Republican clothing that doubled the size of government, supported runaway spending on education, and refused to secure our borders.
What are you talking about when that man was in school the neo-conservative and McCarthyism was in. The ideas expressed in schools today would not have been tolerated, you know ideas like segregation. Quite frankly the ideas expressed above are near-sighted, off topic and irrelevant. The lot of you have shown just how to properly insert foot into mouth.
It has long been recognized that humans who hunt for sport want to kill the trophy animals, while predators like wolves primarily take the old, the sick and the weak, because it takes less work. Now we see the unintended consequences of the argument that killing off the natural predators, like wolves, preserves the game species for human hunting. Humans and wolves are not competing for the same animals.
W.T.F. - NewsWEAK makes me ill printing this. Now I remember why I cancelled my subscription.
Then why are still chiming in on the website, are you looking for attention? Guess you got it.
so far off base - hard to belief any editor let such trash appear - tell me, if only weak survive where do all the trophy animals keep comiing from year after year - perhaps reverse evolution is hitting newsWEAK
You're probably right, maybe God will make more. 'Cause you know that whole evolution thing is really just a theory.
The fact is that the definition of a 'loser' is transitory as well. If someone is surviving to reproduce..... guess what? He ain't a loser anymore! In fact, the 'losers' are the people who are getting killed or animals who are getting killed.
Most posters here are making much ado about nothing. I don't believe the author here is against hunting as much as she is against "trophy hunting" which is to narrow in on the bucks with the biggest antlers and horns. Some of the best naturalists out there are those who hunt for food or have been doing it regularly all their lives.
These are people who will take the females (when in season) or the ones with the smaller horns and antlers. They don't skew the gene pool by looking for the peak males with the biggest horns. When jack ass trophy seekers killed off many populations early last century it was your naturlist hunter who through respect of his prey followed a moratorium that allowed the populations to rebound. This is kind of what the author was getting at.
I am a Pro-Hunting LIBERAL who simply believes that we should give a little thought to the population that we hunt. Actually read the article instead of skimming the title and firing off a knee jerk reactionary post that consists of 30 words with 15 of them beiing the word liberal.
Clearly, most readers don't like evolution, and want to hide their heads in the sand. This is just classic evolution at work, and the data shows what it shows. That said, there is an obvious corollary to this, which is what is happening to the human species?
In a few instances this article is correct in the short term. Some game species suffer a decline in trophy class animals at times, but in the long run the vast majority of species that are hunted benefit from that hunting. The general public is no real threat to the "fittest" deer, elk, ect. The average hunter never sees a true trophy class animal, the thousands of animals killed are only average at best, and in most part very young, or very old. The fittest animals are very good at learning to pattern hunters and avoid them.
Trophy hunting of any species costs tens of thousands of dollars and takes place for the most part on private lands not available to the average hunter. This business drives the private game managers to produce more and more trophy class animals, not less. Although there is a real decline in trophy class animals in Africa, the dollars spent on these species will turn this trend around. More and more game restrictions are in place there every year. For the most part, the PH's (professional hunters) that guide big game hunters to these animals will not hunt themselves out of a job. They will eventually lobby their govenments or organizations to restrict both the numbers killed and the size of the trophy taken to allow the genetics to pass on.
In just the last couple of years, the trophy managers in Texas have begun to adopt age limits on the trophies taken, now trending towards a big whitetail not being shot until he reaches the end of his breeding peak, some as late as 7 or 8 years of age. They accompany the hunter and field-age the buck, not allowing a kill unless the animal shows positive signs of being over the set age. As hunting for big game in Africa declines due to lack of real trophies, this aging of animals will become standard practice there also.
Let's face it natural selection is no longer viable, with the disappearance of natural predators and the emergence of hunting as the primary means of controlling herds in America. This is quickly becoming true in Africa as well. To see where this is going, look at the Whitetail Deer in North America. The number of deer in America is larger than when the Mayflower first landed. When I was a child, it was a big deal for my uncle to kill an 8 point buck, now more and more hunters are killing 12 pointers, and pay-as-you-go hunters seeing near record book bucks yearly. It is a routine occurance for a new state records to be set yearly all over the lower 48. Relax and quit over-reacting to short term problems.
Living in Northwest Montana, I am lucky enough to see a wide range of wildlife - Whitetail & Mule deer, Elk, Moose, Bighorn sheep, etc... In all of the bickering among the posters, I have seen no one offer an alternative solution to the big game hunting...Why does it have to be hunt or no hunt? I lived in the eradication zone in Wisconsin the first year after CWD hit the deer population - that was a waste...
My alternative solution is two-fold. First, force more states to inforce an "antlerless hunt" - Wisconsin and Illinois require an antlerless tag be filled before being allowed to take a buck when deer hunting (at least they used to - it's been a few years since I hunted in the midwest). Anyone hunting for food (as we do), will appreciate this, because the meat from a female is generally better tasting than from a male. Second, Moose hunting in montana is done on a lottery. Only a certain number of tags are offered and if your name is drawn, you are not eligible again for seven years. Utilize this same system for elk - offer a certain amount of bull elk tags and have a lottery with a non-refundable entrance fee in order to be considered. This raises additional state revenue because of the entrance fee, less hunters in the woods looking for "trophies" and the population is stabilized without forcing eradication every few years.
There is still a larger majority of hunters that hunt for the meat than for the horns. "Trophy" hunters are the few who (can) give the rest of us a bad rap. I'm sure that any true "fair-chase" hunter wouldn't think twice about shooting an animal with trophy-size antlers or horns, but that isn't what the objective is when he or she heads into the field. It's more about a personal fulfillment, a personal joy to be out in nature. Myself and the hunters I choose to hunt with can say that the trip was well worth it even if we don't bag any game. To go, to do, to see wildlife in it's natural habitat is the greater part of the experience. Taking home meat for the freezer that is lean and natural is less than half of the goal.
All the hunters I know wait for the biggest buck to shoot. And yet they claim to be stewards of the species. So tell me, how does killing off the biggest, strongest, and healthiest help a species as a whole? Maybe the Fish & Game needs to start tagging "exemplary specimens" as off-limits to help preserve the strong genes.
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