This is crazy, this is America the Land of the FREE. Everyone has right to fight for America whoever or whatever you believe. Open closet closed closet be who you are. Express yourself or don't its your right.Everyone has a opinion we progress from them to fact. Fact is survival of the fittest however they maybe. Everyone needs to accept this it will not change. Freedom is are fact in America this is just more political reason to make it an opinion. I could not justify an answer to this question.
MILITARY
Don’t Ask Too Fast
On gays, Obama's Joint Chiefs chair is caught between his boss and a conservative military.
Published Jan 3, 2009
From the magazine issue dated Jan 12, 2009
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Posted By: waywedge @ 05/29/2009 12:30:23 PM
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Posted By: waywedge @ 05/29/2009 12:30:21 PM
This is crazy, this is America the Land of the FREE. Everyone has right to fight for America whoever or whatever you believe. Open closet closed closet be who you are. Express yourself or don't its your right.Everyone has a opinion we progress from them to fact. Fact is survival of the fittest however they maybe. Everyone needs to accept this it will not change. Freedom is are fact in America this is just more political reason to make it an opinion. I could not justify an answer to this question.
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Posted By: waywedge @ 05/29/2009 12:30:10 PM
This is crazy, this is America the Land of the FREE. Everyone has right to fight for America whoever or whatever you believe. Open closet closed closet be who you are. Express yourself or don't its your right.Everyone has a opinion we progress from them to fact. Fact is survival of the fittest however they maybe. Everyone needs to accept this it will not change. Freedom is are fact in America this is just more political reason to make it an opinion. I could not justify an answer to this question.
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Posted By: JohnR22 @ 04/07/2009 5:31:30 PM
An article in this week's Newsweek (6 April) on why Obama must sign an executive order allowing full and open service. I don't know if I'm more offended by the self-righteous tone of the article or by its blatant ignorance. The author smugly dismissed the argument of Unit Cohesion in a single sentence and claims "so much for the vaunted Command structure". The author apparently thinks that in the military, all that is required is an ORDER, and all hands pop to like little robots; nothing could be further from the truth, and any good officer knows you never want to put yourself in a position where you're giving an order that you KNOW will fail. Having served as an officer for 24 yrs and retired in 2005, here's the truth. Unit Cohesion is the glue that holds front line combat tropps together. The injection of romance/sexual attractions (straight or gay) into the unit will have catostrpohic consequences. Ironic how those who dismiss these facts are usually short (read zero) on military experience and long on ideological fervor.
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Posted By: WonderUs @ 01/08/2009 1:08:49 PM
*FOR ADULT EYES ONLY* You know what cracks me up? Is that everyone on here who is for gays serving in the military or homosexual's lifestyles, are putting down the Christians, because of our moral stand (God's stand on homosexuality). When in fact Christians are not the only ones who have this belief. Muslims and Catholics also share in this belief as well. Though people are quicker to embrace those who are Muslim, when Muslims will die for and kill for their beliefs. I would like to see you go to their country and speak of homosexuality...you will be killed. Christians are the only ones who are persecuted for our beliefs because we come in the name of Yeshua (Jesus the Messiah)...and YES, I'm also a Jew and I am a Christian and I do not agree with the sin of homosexuality in or out of the U.S. military. I don't care if a man wants to pump another man in the buttocks or a woman wants to do whatever it is she does with another woman. It is not natural people. IT IS OBVIOUS, JUST BY OUR PHYSICAL BODIES AND THE WAY THEY ARE WONDERFULLY MADE, THAT GOD MADE WOMAN FOR MAN. I know that is was not meant for a man to ejaculated inside another man's behind. History shows how God destroys cities for this abomination, yet history always has a way of repeating itself. Some might think that this is a bit much to post, but I think it's a bit much for those of us who have to put up with this on the internet, on television, and our daily lives. It's pushed in our faces, it's pushed into our kid's schools at young ages, and through the media..and no one thinks about whether or not it is offensive to those of us who are offended by all of that. Just like you might read this post and say "that is not right to post something like that! (because of that little bit of morality still left in your spirit). Homosexuality is also immoral. But I guess that the only things now days that are immoral are those things which you all allow to line up with your own lives. As long as it doesn't interfere with your lifestyles, then it is OK in your heads. Interesting.....
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Posted By: Oh say can you see @ 03/29/2009 12:02:16 AM
There's no proof of religion. The bible also says tho shall not kill , i don't see the military trying to stop that.
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Posted By: sharkyluvsmj @ 01/08/2009 1:12:48 PM
what if you had a gay or lesbian child?
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 01/08/2009 1:22:37 PM
They would never know about it because their would be no room for honesty in the parent child relationship. It would be based on their parent's choice to beliieve in something that has no proof, instead of believing in something that is staring them ion the face lying to them.
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Posted By: sharkyluvsmj @ 01/08/2009 1:29:30 PM
very true those are the children that land up on the streets the children of intolerant ignorant parents
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Posted By: MISS1USAF1990 @ 01/08/2009 12:41:51 PM
I serve in the USAF and would be proud to serve with "ANOTHER HUMAN BEING!" I'm a Christian.... Most individuals serving in the military are GAY or Bi-Sexual.... yet they are unable to conduct themselves openly. I don't expect Gays to kiss and makelove in public, yet they are unable to have a family because they will not be with the person that make them happy! We all LOVE AMERICA... I know I would give me life and that of my family to PROTECT this country from all who don't believe in the rights of the people in this GREAT COUNTRY!!! All I need to know is this GAY member will protect me when the GUNS are going and BOMBS are dropping! Stop fighting over something that we can not be the JUDGE... 'HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN, LET HIM CAST THE FIRST STONE. John 8:7" Too many individual think they know what best for this country just because someone else is different.... We are becoming what we are fighting against.... STOP!!!! Wake-up and be more open or we will always be fighting... FOREIGN & DOMESTIC.... I don't want to kill my neighbor... but ... look overseas to know where we are headed! The Joint Chiefs should look at the people in the military... they would be BLIND to not realize we already have 50% of our military MALE & FEMALE that are GAY....
PEOPLE WAKE UP & STOP JUDGING... YOU ARE NOT BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE GAY OR STRAIGHT...
ARE YOU JESUS? ????????????-
Posted By: jbran134 @ 02/23/2009 2:26:01 AM
if you served in the military, you would know that most or 50%, as you say, are not gay. Most military members are straight. I have served for many years, I know many members in all branches and can say that most members are not gay.
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Posted By: jbran134 @ 02/23/2009 2:03:14 AM
As a mental health expert, let me just say, homosexuality is an illness. The rest is posted by the Vietnam Veteran.
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Posted By: NightStalker50 @ 01/21/2009 10:53:35 PM
It was September of 1993 - I was a young Senior Commander in the Coast Guard with 25 years in, the last 17 of them as an engineer working out of HQ in DC, but stationed wherever my next mission took me - mostly I was the XO for the Lockheed Skunkworks detachment at Carswell AFB in Fortworth TX. When "don't ask-don't tell" came along I wsa offered a new job, head of personnel for the Atlantic Area. A certain promotion and a dood set up for a flag later on - but I refused to take those orders. Like 17,000 other officers in the Armed Forces that month I resigned my commision and rettired. There were many who turned in their letter that had less than enough time to even get separation pay, but had the moral conviction to do the right thing;. Now the latest survey shows the next step would result in 10-15% of the active duty corps resigning at the earliest possible date. That is close to 200,000 men.
If Obama was so for this why did he not campaign on it in the dteel mills of Pennsylvania or the Coal mines of Kentucky...or on the military bases. I'll tell you why, 85% of the military is anti-gay, and he got about 70% of the military vote.
We did not 1n 1993 when I retired, and we do not now, want God cursed sodomites in the service of the,United States - volunteer Army, hell - my Special Forces division had all emlisted men with college degrees and officers with advanced degrees. ...and it was hard to get into. Now, they are paying huge bonuses to ex-felons without high school educations. We (no service) would take a man without a high school diploma in 1993) I objected to that as I had good men with GEDs that would have made it, but the list that had regular diplomas was too long.
God- cursed sodomites, stay home. There will never be gay military bath houses for you to play with you friends after hpous. We need healthy individulas, not AIDS ridden walking corpses to fight our wars.-
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/22/2009 1:00:25 PM
Given that many other top flight military have openly gay servicemembers now and are not overrun with "walking corpses", but have PROVEN that gay servicememebers are just as good and qualified as heterosexual servicemembers, your resignation was good riddance to bad garbage.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 02/02/2009 12:03:31 PM
Given that many other top flight military have openly gay servicemembers now and are not overrun with "walking corpses", but have PROVEN that gay servicememebers are just as good and qualified as heterosexual servicemembers, your resignation was good riddance to bad garbage.
Say What? In order to prove a point you begin to tell big lies. If what you said was true then the Don't Ask , Don't Tell and Don't Pursue policy would go into effect and appropriately get rid of these so called openly gay servicemembers. So quit telling lies in order to try and validate your point.-
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 02/04/2009 6:11:50 PM
"Say What? In order to prove a point you begin to tell big lies. If what you said was true then the Don't Ask , Don't Tell and Don't Pursue policy would go into effect and appropriately get rid of these so called openly gay servicemembers. So quit telling lies in order to try and validate your point. "
What I was saying is that other top flight militaries (the UK & Israel to name two) have openly gay servicememebers and have had no problems with them (and not had Nightstalkers bull abuot walking corpses.) Therefore I have not told any lies.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 02/05/2009 12:04:33 PM
What I was saying is that other top flight militaries (the UK & Israel to name two) have openly gay servicememebers and have had no problems with them (and not had Nightstalkers bull abuot walking corpses.) Therefore I have not told any lies.
It doesn't matter what other countries have done since he didn't serve those countries but served the United States. I agree that the walking corpses statement was out of line and doesn't validate anything in his posting-
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 02/06/2009 9:50:08 AM
"It doesn't matter what other countries have done since he didn't serve those countries but served the United States. I agree that the walking corpses statement was out of line and doesn't validate anything in his posting"
It does matter what other countries have done since his posting implies thta a military (not jsut the US military) will be adversely affected by having gay (and opnely gay) servicememebers. My point is that said calim has been proven false. His post (and his asinine comment about walking corpses) shows that he does not have the integrity or honor to serve in the US military.-
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 02/07/2009 4:41:36 PM
OK, this time without all the typos
It does matter what other countries have done since his posting implies that a military (not juut the US military) will be adversely affected by having gay (and openly gay) servicememebers. My point is that said claim has been proven false byt the experiences of those other militaries. His post (and his asinine comment about walking corpses) shows that he does not have the integrity or honor to serve in the US military.
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/30/2009 9:52:18 AM
Hmmmm... I guess your old corpse like ass could do better? Such a narrowminded fool. *** idiot. biggot biggot biggot. Feel bad for old *** like you.
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Posted By: Mr. Normal @ 01/09/2009 2:39:46 PM
Would the women of the militery agree to showering with the men? I think not. So why would normal men want to be looked at in the same manner? The vast majority of men since the beginning of time are strongly against homosexuality. When I see a homosexual, the first that comes to mind is that this person's playground is the oriface where waste exits the body. Sickening to the vast majority of all men, no matter their religeon, or none at all for that matter. It also sickens me to have the word "GAY", which is supposed to describe innocent little children playing happily, being applied to homosexuals whose deviant lifestyle should never be associated with the latter. And, I doubt that anyone forced a man on man copulation the first time a homosexual did this deviant act. So don't tell me he didn't have a choice. Man, since the beginning of time has never approved of this behavior as a whole. So, anyone who thinks this behavior doesn't cause military problems is just plainly ignorant or stupid. Lastly, there is nothing prejudicial about being sickened by the thought of sickening sexual deviation.
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/09/2009 3:14:57 PM
"Lastly, there is nothing prejudicial about being sickened by the thought of sickening sexual deviation. "
Thou protest too much.
I have a feeling you are compensating for something.-
Posted By: sumtcb @ 01/11/2009 2:37:35 PM
why do gay people go around as if they have a chip on their shoulder? woe is me. woe is me you say. the last time i checked their was no law saying you couldnt be gay. if you want to be gay. be gay. why must you absolutely have to announce it to everyone?? its your choice rite? well its also my choice not to be gay. rite? who cares? let that be the end of it. if you think you were born gay and its normal to be gay why are you so trying to defend yourself if its normal. what are you justifying and who to?? if your already in the military .what exactly more do you want? if gay people have been around since the beginning of time (which they have) why must gays of todays time be so aggresive?equal rights rite? im a christian ok what is so equal rights about having me change my beliefs to accept yours? i dont want my kids growing up in a school where being taught gay is okay. thats not my beliefs.thats yours. wheres my rights here? talking of god has been taken out of schools in some places because the gays and gay activist were disturbed by it. theres something not adding up here. mt rights are being taken away because of your rights. whats so equal rights about that?? like i said before when was there ever a law that said you couldnt be gay?? why must we as christians go astray from what we believe to better suit the rights of the gay and gay activist? have you ever once given any thot to that? this is a free country. but where are my rights here? dont take my rights away from me to better suit yours. thats not equal rights. our rights are dissapearing because you have to defend yours. but against who and what is the question.
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Posted By: Zig Zag @ 01/12/2009 12:13:35 AM
I think the issue is that (1) being gay is not a choice and (2) gay people are denied the same rights as the rest of us. If gay people were treated the same as everyone else, then you probably wouldn't hear that much about it.
As far as your statement that you don't want you kids growing up in a school where being gay is okay - I have news for you, schools do not cater the ignorance of individual parents. What you are really saying is you want the school your children attend to teach that being gay is not okay. I am sure that parents who belong to the KKK would like schools to teach that being black or jewish is not okay either. Thank goodness the schools don't.
And if ensuring others have the right to live their lives with the freedoms this country is suppose to offer everyone results in you losing your right to be discriminatory against others - I can live with that.-
Posted By: sumtcb @ 01/12/2009 8:18:25 AM
okay once again the issue of race has been brought up in this issue. you are bringing the kkk into this??? we have no choosing in our color, shape, eyes and hair color when we are born. HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A RACE OF PEOPLE!!! homosexuality is a label of a human being that is gay. yes i could go on and on to about how the kkk is wrong. of course its wrong. they tortured and killed an innocent race of human beings for no reason at all. thats a crime against race. im sure black people and jewish people would love to here how much harder the homosexuals have it today in comparison to what they had to deal with. would you like fries with your wine?
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/12/2009 8:35:02 AM
"okay once again the issue of race has been brought up in this issue."
Rights are rights. There is no difference between stomping on a Black person's rights, or a Gay person's rights.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/12/2009 3:40:53 PM
There is NO difference! Get Real! Big difference in the color of one's skin being an issue than the sexual behavior of some perverted person!
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 01/14/2009 9:18:03 AM
There is no difference. Rights are rights.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/14/2009 11:44:27 AM
And the rights shouldn't be special for a group of individuals based on their behavior!
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 01/14/2009 12:10:17 PM
What "special rights" are they asking for? Oh, yeah. The same special rights YOU have, that you refuse to extend to anyone who doesn't meet YOUR religious views. So I guess they ARE special rights. You get them, nobody else does.
Stop hating America.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 02/02/2009 11:49:39 AM
What "special rights" are they asking for?
They are asking for the right to redefine marriage, they are asking for the right to restructure the family, they are asking for the right to let this be taught in our schools, they are asking for others to accept their immoral behavior as being normal, they are asking the government to make laws governing peoples behavior and way of thinking, they are asking that we forget over 6,000 years of history regarding the fundamentals of a family structure and say that what they are doing is normal??????etc??????they are asking that we exchange the truth for a lie that this is normal behavior when it is abnormal behavior and a mental disorder???.
Oh, yeah. The same special rights YOU have, that you refuse to extend to anyone who doesn't meet YOUR religious views. So I guess they ARE special rights. You get them, nobody else does.
Everyone has the right to marriage as long as they meet the criteria for marriage now are you suggesting that we have no criteria for marriage? It figures you would want to throw out all criteria to support immorality???.
Stop hating America.
Stop hating God!
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 01/12/2009 10:16:53 AM
"if your already in the military .what exactly more do you want?"
They want to not have to lie about their natural state of being for fear of being dishonorably discharged wehen they have done nothing to deserve it.
" if gay people have been around since the beginning of time (which they have) why must gays of todays time be so aggresive?"
Because they finally reaslized that science is on their side and that they too have a rgith to demand EQUAL rights. They have learned from other minorities that is it NOT OK to be discriminated agaisnt.
"im a christian ok what is so equal rights about having me change my beliefs to accept yours?"
No one is asking yo to change your beliefs. What is being asked it that your beliefs not being used as a justificiation for discrimination.
"I dont want my kids growing up in a school where being taught gay is okay."
Then send them to a paraochial school.
"Wheres my rights here?"
Your righs end when they are used to discriminate agaisnt others.
" talking of god has been taken out of schools in some places because the gays and gay activist were disturbed by it."
That is a pile of garbage. Talking about god has been taken out of (public) schools because it is a violation of the Establishment clause. BTW, it is not talking about god it is talking about the beliefs of specific religions. Prayers (and specific religious viewpoints being pushed on students) were sstopped long before gay rights ever happened.
"like i said before when was there ever a law that said you couldnt be gay??
don ask Don Tell is a prime example. There have been otehr laws that did criminalize beng gay. The fact that there are still some states that do not recognize Estate rigths and meidcal decison rights for gay and lesbian partners. Those are but a few of the laws that effectively say that being gay makes one a second or third class citizen.
"why must we as christians go astray from what we believe to better suit the rights of the gay and gay activist? "
Because you are trying to make yor RELGIOUS belerfis ointo state and federal laws. You do not have the right to do that.
"dont take my rights away from me to better suit yours. thats not equal rights."
That is not happening. You are the ones whoa re tying to deny equal rights solely on your religious beliefs.-
Posted By: sumtcb @ 01/13/2009 9:25:43 AM
ghost, religious viewpoints being pushed on students. ok what is the difference in religious viewpoints and gay viewpoints being pushed on students? so you are saying its ok to push students that being gay is ok but there not allowed to talk of religious viewpoints? thanks you just proved my point even more
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Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/15/2009 1:18:54 PM
"ok what is the difference in religious viewpoints and gay viewpoints being pushed on students?"
Gay viewpoints are not being oushed on students. Homsoexualityis a fact of life. It exists (and has existed for years). And although some people may consider it immoral, those views are purely religous, and have no place in schools. The fact of homosexuallity is aone of science not of opinion. Religion is one of opinion. .
"so you are saying its ok to push students that being gay is ok but there not allowed to talk of religious viewpoints? "
The idea that being gay is not OK is purely a religious one. The idea that homosexuality exists and that there is more and more scientiific evidence that it is biological not choice based is a valid topic for education. Religious induction is not.
BTW, to my kowledge every school that does teach that homosexuality is a biological issue also allows parents to opt their kids out of those lessons. -
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 01/14/2009 9:17:27 AM
"ghost, religious viewpoints being pushed on students."
Where and when? Please be specific.
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/12/2009 12:52:58 PM
"dont take my rights away from me to better suit yours. "
Which of your rights is this taking away? Be specific, please. -
Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/12/2009 8:33:58 AM
"why do gay people go around as if they have a chip on their shoulder?"
I don't know. Ask a Gay person.
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 01/09/2009 5:16:50 PM
"So why would normal men want to be looked at in the same manner? "
Just because you are unable to keep your smaller head in check, you are making the presumption that a gay male is not more disciplined.
"The vast majority of men since the beginning of time are strongly against homosexuality."
Actually most men before the creation of Judeo-Christian religion probbly had few problems with homosexuality.
"It also sickens me to have the word "GAY", which is supposed to describe innocent little children playing happily, being applied to homosexuals whose deviant lifestyle should never be associated with the latter."
That is your problem, not theirs.
"And, I doubt that anyone forced a man on man copulation the first time a homosexual did this deviant act."
That makes no sense whatsoever.
"Man, since the beginning of time has never approved of this behavior as a whole."
Already debunked.
"So, anyone who thinks this behavior doesn't cause military problems is just plainly ignorant or stupid."
The FACT the several other highly regarded militaries allow openly gay and lesbian servicememebers and they have no real problmes proves that assertion wrong.
"Lastly, there is nothing prejudicial about being sickened by the thought of sickening sexual deviation. "
It is only deviation in your little mind.-
Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/13/2009 9:46:06 AM
So now only gay men like asses? Hey..Last time I check... plenty of straight men enjoyed it doggy style as well. But, let's only point it out & use it against gay men.... so that other ignorant pieces of *** like yourself can consume these comments of your without ever stopping to realize that straight people do it too. Did you know men have a g-spot in there ***? Hm... Don't tell me it's wrong because I've meant quite a few gay AND straight men that would tell you otherwise. Who cares anyway? Are you having sex with them? Going to bed with them at night? Having any sort of relationship with them at all? Yeah didn't think so. Maybe if people like you worried more about what was going on IN YOUR OWN home the divorce rate wouldn't be so damn high.... whew.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/13/2009 12:31:53 PM
So are you saying the practices of the homosexual community is not a Health and Welfare issue that the american society should be concerned about? On the contrary I think their behavior should be a cause for alarm not only in the military but also the civilian sector of society. the suicidal rates, the hepatitis B rate, Aids rate.....and so on should be a alarm for the mainstream of society because the crossover in which many homosexuals (or bisexuals) practices are effecting the lives of the heterosexuals as well
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/13/2009 3:22:30 PM
That's exactly what I am saying. I am not going to run around and search of bunch of stats.... It's been proven many times that many of these health issues are linked to homosexuals merely by STEREOTYPES & been shot down by facts.
Here's a fact- If YOU don't have sex with them, you can't possibly get anything anyway! I know... it's a difficult concept to understand. For one who runs at the mouth about facts..... you should look some up. You want to talk about health issues? The white house is surrounded byboarded up tenements full of the poor & starving.... But who cares about that when we could worry about whose having sex with who? It isn't all about sex anyway- but I guess you missed that the first 12 times I said it.
It's hilarious..... I doubt you go ranting on about heterosexuals who have sex when they have stds..... now theres a health concern. But, I guess it's ok..because according to idiots like you straight people pose no concern to the health of society. Who cares if certain straight people have health issues, stds, etc?.... they have a right to have sex & spread it as they wish merely because they are straight!... But let's act like only homosexuals can pass something along... even the uninfected ones!... Lets use our ignorance to our advantage. Who cares if your wrong? You are STRAIGHT so your entitled to be!
Right......-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/13/2009 5:02:17 PM
LOL...you are ignorant!
Here is a link that you need to look at.... for me if they are saying straight men are having sex with men then they are homosexuals and not straight.....
http://www.webmd.com/sex/news/20060918/many-straight-men-have-gay-sex-
Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/14/2009 12:59:16 PM
Im ignorant? No... I have plenty of knowledge of being a lesbian and the homosexual lifestyle. Im surrounded mostly by my close friends who are straight, but have a wide range of friends who are gay as well.
You are trying to say that homosexuals are a health concern. You are more concerned with there label, rather then the facts. You'd probably rather screw a straight girl with an std rather then stop for a second consider that maybe you are wrong? That's what I am saying. There is cause in this country for general health concerns when it comes to sex & std's... using the stereotype that it's mostly related to homosexuals is inaccurate & biast. You are choosing to look at is this way to further try and prove your worthless points.
Im going to go study on how to be a lesbian now. seriously.....-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/15/2009 11:55:26 AM
Im ignorant? No... I have plenty of knowledge of being a lesbian and the homosexual lifestyle.
Ignorant toward the things of God you are???.and I???m ignorant towards the things about homosexuals???as I should be??? Rom.16
1. [19] For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
Im going to go study on how to be a lesbian now. seriously.....
Why study to be something that you and others claim to be born? Now the truth comes out that it is a CHOICE???thanks for admitting this point???.-
Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/15/2009 3:57:05 PM
Again- Its called sarcasm. Im done with you.. Your a *** tool... I choose to put no faith in your god & the bible... I have my own beliefs... and although my family is religious and I was raised that way.. I have grown into my own person.. IMAGINE THAT.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/27/2009 1:16:08 PM
You consider it growth while i consider it degenerative suicide of the worse kind.....
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Posted By: DT155 @ 01/08/2009 12:42:37 PM
I served over 12 years in the Infantry and knew of a few "identifiable" gays that were serving. Frankly, the atmosphere was more tolerant when they were in staff positions than in line units, but I think the reflects the overriding issue behind the objection to gays serving. That issue is simply one of privacy. Members on a staff (or in the State Dept., as referenced in the article) don't often shower together or see each other naked. Infantry soldiers do all of the time, and engage in other intimacies forced by circumstances. For example, more than a few infantry soldiers (me included) have embraced each other while lying in the cold mud just to retain some body heat to make it through the night without shivering. We ask soldiers at the cutting edge to give up extreme degrees of privacy, and the last aspect of privacy that we afford them is the right to shower without wondering if they are being ogled. Imagine the effect on morale and recruiting if the military decided that room assignments, showering, etc., would be conducted without regard to the sex of the soldier? Men and women being required to shower and live together is no different that straights and gays being required to do so. Not every job in the military forces this dilemma, but the most important and dangerous ones do.
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Posted By: tampajunk @ 01/31/2009 3:56:29 PM
Oh my God . . . someone might be looking at me!!!! i can be asked to kill another human and do so bravely, but I just can't stand that someone might be ogling me in the shower!
Seriously, DT, first you reduce us (everyone) to some lurid sex level. Sounds like you have some hang ups. Second, you think our soldiers are such wimps that they are going to pass out at someone looking at them? Have you ever been in a gym? Why can we get by there, but when it comes to military showers we somehow lose our sense of propriety. Why not just say that if someone acts improper in the shower (regardless of who) that is a violation - not the act of being in the shower. You want to deny people the right to serve their county simply because it makes you uncomfortable in the shower. Sounds like you are the one with the problem.
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/13/2009 9:49:17 AM
Wow.. Some of you are absolutely ridiculous. I am a very proud lesbian..... and the one thing that always stopped me from being in the military was "Dont ask, Dont tell". its the most ridiculous concept when you think about it- You think someone should risk their life for their country, but not have the right to speak about their same-sex partners at home? What the hell would they be fighting for, if not the freedom to have those rights? "Don't ask, Don't tell" is just a way of making the head military staffs life easier. What makes it "OK" for homosexuals to fight in our wars, but not be able to reference the things that keep them there fighting? Your right US military, let's keep them hush hush... because the obvious homos will eventually be "outed" anyway- at which point you will dishonorably discharge them if they don't admit to it, and if they do they will get honorable discharge. Either way, they are being kicked out for their sexuality, & that IS DISCRIMINATION.. And before you say it- don't tell me what I just said isn't true. It is true, because it happened to my friend. Additionally, Ive seen several people on here state that 'what you do is your bed is your own business, just don't advertise it... blah blah blah"- go *** yourself. Being GAY isn't all about who we sleep with.... it's a part of our whole life, who we are as people, & our families- .it's a part of who we are. To each of you that said that- I guess you feel like you shouldn't be able to discuss your relationship while serving either? Complete bullshit. Don't act like you wouldn't be talking about you husbands and wives the first conversations you had. What gives you the right to judge what are the right and wrong choices, for people all over the world, who are leading completely different lives and facing completely different issues then you. What gives you the right to assume all these stereotypes are in fact true, and treat us like it's all sexual. YOU KNOW NOTHING.
On another note- I have been told that gays can be drafted in times of war. Ok.... So OPENLY GAY people are good enough to serve when the government says so, but not on their own account? It's good to know our government will send us into was, choosing to risk our lives, but if we choose to risk our own that just isn't good enough.
Many who will fight and defend the armys "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy will say that is is to protect us homosexuals. Is that supposed to be some sort of joke? If we want to go and fight and be proud of who we are- that should be OUR choice. If we want to risk being abused, mistreated, hazed, and sometimes killed, then that is our own personal decision. Gays don't ask the military to protect us.... this is just a nice little excuse people say to make themselves sleep better at night, knowing they are biggot pieces of ***. (to be continued in next post)
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/13/2009 11:12:22 AM
If you came here to debate then debate....your rantings are just that rantings of someone who is not going to convince or let others who have difference of opinions to see your side in a constructive way. Just my opinion...
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/13/2009 11:57:41 AM
I didn't come here to debate. I came here to voice my opinion- and that I did. I responded to several things that other people stated- and said several things that opposed what they say... so if that isn't itself a debate, then please tell me what is? If you didn't find interest in what I had to say- then oh well, don't read it again... and why did your ead it the first time? I respect peoples differences, and that not everyone agrees.... so no I am not going to try to convince anyone to live exactly as I do. If people choose to read that and see a different side, then so be it. if they don't... then they don't. Either way, I will still be me, live life as I am, and be a happy lil *** with my baby girl. Most of the ignorant asses on here who have no respect for others differences will not take the time to read something that goes against their already standing opinions- those are the exact people that should open their minds & read *** like that and actually consider it. But, some people will never change or even consider understanding the concept of something so intense it either offends them, or scares them. I don't have people like that in my life for a reason... and I love my life... Imagine that.
You take care there buddy... tell me not to "rant".... but your on here posting small phrases that neither address the issue, or anything I said. Hey.. Maybe you're one of "those" people. There's a shocker!-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/13/2009 12:25:55 PM
I'am one of those people who do not believe the way that you believe! I did read your post because you seem to have a lot to say on the subject but it was out of hostility and not artful debating. This is what I was trying to convey to you since you wrote so much and yes you did address each charge in your own way. You however did not present any facts or statistics to back up any of your claims.... the one where you said you had a friend who had a experience and you use this experience to say this is why you didn't join the Airforce...this I found to be ludicrious to say the least. Your friend is definately going to tell you her side of the story to make herself look good and make the Airforce look bad. If you are basing the discrimination off of what others have experience and not yourself then you are just going of circumstantial evidence to say the least. This he said, she said doesn't stand up in court or shouldn't be taken serious in debating especially since your first hand knowledge is not your very own but that of others.
I myself served in the Army for 24 years and then retired and have my own experience to validate my beliefs and stances on the subject. You on the other hand have nothing to fall back on except what your friend told you.... I don't mind talking with someone who has passion in what they believe .... but the delivery of what they believe is important in order to maintain a civil debate on a hot or controversial subject such as who should serve in our military or not.
I myself don't want to see his happen and think that ones sexual behavior shouldn't be forced on everyone to accept as normal when they see it otherwise.-
Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/13/2009 1:19:30 PM
I didnt say I didn't join the the airforce because of my friends experience... I said I didn't join ANY SERVICES because I don't agree with the policy. Perhaps you would have know that, had you of actually READ the whole post. My friend was discharged dishonorably.... I went through it all with her & her family... so how you going to tell me? Idiot. Additionally, if you had read the post (as you stated you did) you would have noticed that I never once said people should except a homosexual lifestyle as normal..... Nope. Not once did I say that. What I said, was that people may not agree with it, but they should respect that everyone comes from different walks of life... and it should be respected, even if not agreed with.
Furthermore, I don't need universal statistics to back up my opinion... that's what makes it an opinion. I didn't know I needed national statistics to be a certified homo....hah.
You know what's really funny? I see you have been allllll over this *** posting all kinds of stuff... Do you have a life? Do you have anything else to focus on?...perhaps something to make yourself happy? Mhm. I said what I had to say... If you didn't agree with it... then again, I'd suggest you don't read it again. (I know that was a hard one to figure out). ... not that it seemed you read it the first time.
Better yet...keep coming here.... and getting all pissed off. Seems your getting pretty old there.... so by all means come here & give yourself a heart attack. One less biggot to make the world a better place. Oh no..let me go find some stats on how much a difference that would make in the world, and then Ill get back to you. hah. Thanks for a good laugh OLE PAL!-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/13/2009 4:17:33 PM
I didnt say I didn't join the the airforce because of my friends experience... I said I didn't join ANY SERVICES because I don't agree with the policy. Perhaps you would have know that, had you of actually READ the whole post. My friend was discharged dishonorably.... I went through it all with her & her family... so how you going to tell me? Idiot.
Still the same you didn???t join the Services and then make an opinion based on a policy that does allow you to serve but not openly! I take it by your name calling you are still young and can join even now but your maturity level would cause problems???.
Additionally, if you had read the post (as you stated you did) you would have noticed that I never once said people should except a homosexual lifestyle as normal..... Nope. Not once did I say that. What I said, was that people may not agree with it, but they should respect that everyone comes from different walks of life... and it should be respected, even if not agreed with.
If you are arguing on the point that they should allow homosexuals to serve openly then you are saying others should except (meaning change the Don???t Ask Don???t Tell and Don???t Pursue policy) and be forced to adhere to a revised policy based on a certain groups sexual behavior even if not in agreement with! At least know what you are saying and supporting before you start denying things!
Do you have a life? Do you have anything else to focus on?...perhaps something to make yourself happy? Mhm. I said what I had to say... If you didn't agree with it... then again, I'd suggest you don't read it again. (I know that was a hard one to figure out). ... not that it seemed you read it the first time.
Childish ranting of someone who is doing the same as I???.posting all over the place and obvious you have nothing better to do but blow snot bubbles when someone doesn???t agree with you???.I can read what I want on this post and if you didn???t want people to read it then why did you post it? LOL???.grow up!
Better yet...keep coming here.... and getting all pissed off.
LOL???you are the one who is using profanity to express your thoughts towards others???.. I haven???t posted one word negative against you but I see that you cannot handle a adult conversation questioning your stances and beliefs!-
Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/14/2009 11:56:49 AM
So Im done going back and forth with you. I keep repeating myself to some *** idiot who is obviously having someone translate, because your responses show you lack the knowledge to read, or just don't care too. If you read what I wrote before, you wouldn't be talking all the *** you are... because thats not what I said. If you are to ignorant to comprehend what my statements meant, well then that isn't my problem.
Damn straight if I am going to put my life on the line to defend a country I should be able to talk about my life at home and what I am fighting for. Additionally, it isn't all about sex. That's what idiots like you don't & CAN'T comprehend.
Oh no..You think I'm immature? Well let me just go hang myself. Seriously.... You are fighting a losing battle. I'm done. The policy discrimnates..that's that. You think it's coincidental that the people who oppose gays in the military also oppose the homosexual lifestyle? You think it's coincidental that you people see it only as about sex? No. It isn't a coincidence at all..it's about ignorance & the lack of having any desire at all to understand something that is different to you, or something you don't agree with. I don't know why keep coming here, attacking everyones different views? What's the point? If people like me didn't exsist, then there wouldn't even be a need for this policy to be questioned, because noones taking a stance to it. People like me are why the world keep evolving... People like you are stuck in the same old ways. Do your thing & be unhappy.... but accept that I am happy... and your irrelevent statements won't sway that..or hurt my feelings. We are here and we are proud... Get over it.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/15/2009 11:33:37 AM
Reading comprehension isn???t my problem, but you being able to articulate your thoughts on paper or this blog and un-provoked hostility are the problems I have with you.
Damn straight if I am going to put my life on the line to defend a country I should be able to talk about my life at home and what I am fighting for. Additionally, it isn't all about sex. That's what idiots like you don't & CAN'T comprehend.
Eventually it is about the sex of the person you are involved with and it will always be about the sex of the individual. Something that you want to be considered normal is what I will never accept from the corrupt mindset of such individuals as being normal.
The policy discrimnates..that's that. You think it's coincidental that the people who oppose gays in the military also oppose the homosexual lifestyle? You think it's coincidental that you people see it only as about sex? No. It isn't a coincidence at all..it's about ignorance & the lack of having any desire at all to understand something that is different to you, or something you don't agree with..
It is call having morals something that you cannot and will not comprehend since you want to live an immoral lifestyle.
People like me are why the world keep evolving... People like you are stuck in the same old ways.
Romans 1:[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
If you call having a reprobate mind evolving then I know now that you have lost all common sense???.
Do your thing & be unhappy.... but accept that I am happy... and your irrelevent statements won't sway that..or hurt my feelings.
Self-delusion is never true happiness because one day you will have to deal with reality???
We are here and we are proud... Get over it.
Romans 1:[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful,PROUD, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Yes I did check the list above and being proud is on there!-
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/15/2009 1:11:45 PM
bojack,
"Eventually it is about the sex of the person you are involved with and it will always be about the sex of the individual. Something that you want to be considered normal is what I will never accept from the corrupt mindset of such individuals as being normal. "
But that does not and should not matter. Taht makes the presumption that every homosexual is not capable of reigning in their attraction. I know several hundred gay men. They all know that I am heterosexual. They ALL respect that fact and do not make passes at me. i am confident in my sexuality that I do nto get paranoid about the fact that they may in fact find me attractive. I work with many women. Some of them I find very attractive, but I have the maturity and self control to keep my ideas to mysellf. I trust that the men and women iwho serve in the military are mature enough to understand that just because someone is gay that they are not some sort of threat. If not, then maybe those soldeirs do not deseerve to be in the military as they obviously are lacking in some maturity.
"It is call having morals something that you cannot and will not comprehend since you want to live an immoral lifestyle. "
It is ONLY your opinion that it is "immoral". I would argue that your view is immoral.
You quoted biblical verses. Althoug I do understand that those verse are very imporatnt to you and I respedct that your do your best to live your life by them, you surely understand that, as purely religious ideas, they have no legal stading in US or military law as giving them such would be Establishing Religion and that is not allowed. I someone is not able to reconcile their religious beliefs with their obligations as a member of the US military then they have no business serving in the military. Since the don't ask, don't tell rules is arguably a violationof the Equal Protexction clause it should be reversed. The non-religious arguments for it are similar to to the one's that were sued by those who opposed intergrating the US military, and we all nwo know that yhose arguments were invalid. Also since there are many world-class militaries that allow openly gay and lesbians to serve with no reductrion in operations or esprit de corps, those arguments are also invalid. All it will do is take some training and education for the existing troops to adapt. I did not say accept homsoexuailty as normal, I said aapt. The same as they adapted to serving with blacks an d women and the same as they adapt to serving with peope of other religions that they may have problmes with (as well as atheists.) Our soldiers have the ability to adapt and they should do so.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/15/2009 2:23:14 PM
You quoted biblical verses. Althoug I do understand that those verse are very imporatnt to you and I respedct that your do your best to live your life by them, you surely understand that, as purely religious ideas, they have no legal stading in US or military law as giving them such would be Establishing Religion and that is not allowed.
Obvious you are mistaken once again any law that protects it citizens always have some religious beliefs behind them???don???t believe me then let???s just remove killing someone as a crime???it has religious beliefs behind it as well???your reasoning is invalid and the don???t ask, don???t tell is not in violation of any Equal protection clause since that basically it gives anyone the right to serve their country as long as it adhere to the standards set forth therein. Now you and others are suggesting changing the standards to accommodate those who don???t want to adhere to these standards that have been there for years.
I someone is not able to reconcile their religious beliefs with their obligations as a member of the US military then they have no business serving in the military.
If someone is trying to restructure ones religious beliefs through acceptance of such policies and laws then this is a violation of the Equal Protection Clause..
All it will do is take some training and education for the existing troops to adapt. I did not say accept homsoexuailty as normal, I said aapt.
Adaptation is voluntary and training is not! Quit talking out both sides of your mouth???bottom line is you want to force your will on those who are not in agreement with these sexual deviant practices ???-
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/15/2009 6:31:08 PM
"just remove killing someone as a crime"
Actually it is murder,not just killing. And that viewpoint existed in many cultures before Western religion ever showed up. (Anmd given that western religion has a pretty abysmal track record 0n that issue as well.)
"the don't ask, don't tell is not in violation of any Equal protection clause since that basically it gives anyone the right to serve their country as long as it adhere to the standards set forth therein."
Actually it is. It is the standards that violate the Equal Protection clause. There is no valid non-religious reason for prohibitting openly gay and lesbian servicemenebers since it has been proven that the other reason are not valid ones, given the experiences of other first class militaries.
"Now you and others are suggesting changing the standards to accommodate those who don't want to adhere to these standards that have been there for years."
Sme excuse was given by those who opposed intergrating the military (and allowing women to serve). It was invalid then it is invalid now.
"If someone is trying to restructure ones religious beliefs through acceptance of such policies and laws then this is a violation of the Equal Protection Clause."
Not at all. One is not being required to restructure thier beliefs. they are simply not being allowed ot have those beliefs override their service.
"Adaptation is voluntary and training is not!"
Adapting to an integrated military was not voluntary. Adapting to openly gay service members will not be either.
"bottom line is you want to force your will on those who are not in agreement with these sexual deviant practices"
Since they are only deviant in your imagination that is not a valid statement.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/27/2009 1:58:21 PM
"just remove killing someone as a crime"
Actually it is murder,not just killing. And that viewpoint existed in many cultures before Western religion ever showed up. (Anmd given that western religion has a pretty abysmal track record 0n that issue as well.)
So you are still saying laws should not reflect the morality of religious beliefs???even if it is not Christianity it is still religious beliefs that forbid murder / killing of another human being. So your stance that laws shouldn???t reflect religious beliefs is pick and choose with you now?
"the don't ask, don't tell is not in violation of any Equal protection clause since that basically it gives anyone the right to serve their country as long as it adhere to the standards set forth therein."
Actually it is. It is the standards that violate the Equal Protection clause. There is no valid non-religious reason for prohibitting openly gay and lesbian servicemenebers since it has been proven that the other reason are not valid ones, given the experiences of other first class militaries.
So now you are endorsing that the Armed forces have no standards of behavior! LOL???so personal conduct of any sort no matter how outrageous or offensive it may be should be tolerated because it violates ones Equal Protection under the law???.yet while upholding it will violate the others Equal Protection for decency under the law???..that make no sense whatsoever ???
"Now you and others are suggesting changing the standards to accommodate those who don't want to adhere to these standards that have been there for years."
Same excuse was given by those who opposed intergrating the military (and allowing women to serve). It was invalid then it is invalid now.
This has nothing to do with behavior???.gender versus behavior is totally two different topics so is race???but you have a history of grouping everything together to try to validate your point???.not working here, it just shows that you are confused on the subject of deviant sexual behavior by equating it to gender or race discrimination.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/27/2009 2:07:30 PM
"If someone is trying to restructure ones religious beliefs through acceptance of such policies and laws then this is a violation of the Equal Protection Clause."
Not at all. One is not being required to restructure thier beliefs. they are simply not being allowed ot have those beliefs override their service.
So you admit to denying freedom of speech, thought and beliefs of an individual to accept the beliefs of others who practice sexual deviant behavior. A person???s belief or convictions will always override their service, if a person thinks that something is not worth fighting for then their beliefs will cause them to leave and not stay. Service without being allowed ones beliefs is not a service but a prison sentence.
"Adaptation is voluntary and training is not!"
Adapting to an integrated military was not voluntary. Adapting to openly gay service members will not be either.
Adaptation is voluntary according to ones convictions that such adaptation is necessary for advancement of a good cause. Training one to accept behavior contrary to their convictions is a indoctrination of morality being forced upon the masses to comply with or face expulsion???thus making it forced and not voluntary.
"bottom line is you want to force your will on those who are not in agreement with these sexual deviant practices"
Since they are only deviant in your imagination that is not a valid statement.
LOL???real technical of you to dismiss deviant sexual behavior as imagination???yet you provide no evidence that such behavior is within the norm of accepted behavior??????
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/15/2009 2:22:38 PM
But that does not and should not matter. Taht makes the presumption that every homosexual is not capable of reigning in their attraction. I know several hundred gay men. They all know that I am heterosexual. They ALL respect that fact and do not make passes at me. i am confident in my sexuality that I do nto get paranoid about the fact that they may in fact find me attractive. I work with many women. Some of them I find very attractive, but I have the maturity and self control to keep my ideas to mysellf. I trust that the men and women iwho serve in the military are mature enough to understand that just because someone is gay that they are not some sort of threat. If not, then maybe those soldeirs do not deseerve to be in the military as they obviously are lacking in some maturity.
So you want to kick out those who are serving because you think it is mature behavior to accept deviant sexual practices as being normal? I wouldn???t care how many homosexuals you know it is your stance with them as being normal that counts. So with all of their deviant behavior and practices you would endorse???which includes pedophiles having sex with young children, under the banner of NAMBLA???.you are immoral just as they are???.
"It is call having morals something that you cannot and will not comprehend since you want to live an immoral lifestyle. "
It is ONLY your opinion that it is "immoral". I would argue that your view is immoral.
Since your view is changing with every wind and doctrine that promotes sexual deviant behavior your argument would fall flat???.you have to have a standard of measure to say what is immoral and what is not immoral. Since I go off of what doesn???t change GOD! Then I would stand on His Word than on man???s word which changes according to the times???.-
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/15/2009 6:21:35 PM
"So you want to kick out those who are serving because you think it is mature behavior to accept deviant sexual practices as being normal? "
They are not deviant behaviors. That is your opinion. It is not fact. I want to assure that just that our soldiers are not acting purely on personal opinion and hatred based on religious belief. I have seen many of the most anti-gay sservicemen act like immoral devaints in the way they talk about and treat women. And they say, "hey it is guys being real men". More like real pigs.
"So with all of their deviant behavior and practices you would endorse which includes pedophiles having sex with young children, under the banner of NAMBLA. you are immoral just as they are."
That is garbage. Pedophiles and homosexuals are NOT the same thing. Are there homoseual pedophies? Yes, but so are there heteroseuxal ones. The vast majority of homosexuals are as repulsed by pedophilia as heterosexuals are. You insinsuating otherwise is the height of immorality.
"It is call having morals something that you cannot and will not comprehend since you want to live an immoral lifestyle. "
I am heterosexual, happily married for 15 years to a wonderful woman. I have never even considered straying from the fidelity that I have commited myself to with her. And I would place my morals up against yours any day of the week.
"Since your view is changing with every wind and doctrine that promotes sexual deviant behavior your argument would fall flat???.you have to have a standard of measure to say what is immoral and what is not immoral. Since I go off of what doesn???t change GOD! Then I would stand on His Word than on man???s word which changes according to the times???."
Nice words. No meaning. I do have a core standard of behavior and morality. Treat your fellow human beings, animals and the planet well. Do not presume to understand what other feel or how they live their lives or what is in their hearts. Do not hide behind religion as an excuse for the way you treat others.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/27/2009 12:32:36 PM
They are not deviant behaviors. That is your opinion. It is not fact.
Wrong it is FACT! Your refusal to acknowledge this doesn???t change the point that homosexuality is a deviant sexual behavior from the establish norm of society! If you have missed this point then you are totally lost and have no foundation of what is normal. Look at the history of such behavior and the total rejection of it and then tell me with a straight face that it is not deviant???.or better yet look up the word deviant to get a better understanding???
I want to assure that just that our soldiers are not acting purely on personal opinion and hatred based on religious belief. I have seen many of the most anti-gay sservicemen act like immoral devaints in the way they talk about and treat women. And they say, "hey it is guys being real men". More like real pigs.
LOL???now you are calling anti-gay servicemen immoral deviants???.which is a oxymoron???if you are immoral then you are going against the establish moral law of God???or such establishments you deem to get your morals from???so where does your morals come from since you deny God? And who said that these men are to accept your morality or how you view they should treat women?
That is garbage. Pedophiles and homosexuals are NOT the same thing. Are there homoseual pedophies? Yes, but so are there heteroseuxal ones.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/27/2009 1:08:51 PM
A person who calls himself a heterosexual will conduct himself in heterosexual sexual acts???.and one who deviates away from such practices is not considered a heterosexual but homosexual period. Lets not get this twisted ???.and those who prey on younger same sex victims are the worse offenders of them all and this is a homosexual act period not heterosexual act! Those who engage in opposite sex sexual gratification from younger victims deserve death and are among the scum of the earth???.
The vast majority of homosexuals are as repulsed by pedophilia as heterosexuals are. You insinsuating otherwise is the height of immorality.
Not insinuating anything just posting the fact that homosexuals started a group called NAMBLA which endorses the homosexual acts between men and boys. If you think pointing out the truth is immoral then you definitely have a problem???
I am heterosexual, happily married for 15 years to a wonderful woman. I have never even considered straying from the fidelity that I have commited myself to with her. And I would place my morals up against yours any day of the week.
Well I???m happy that you are normal???.as far as placing your morals up against mine???.don???t make me laugh since you are the endorser of this immoral lifestyle only shows me that you still have no morals that are relevant in God???s sight concerning this matter???but you do want to tell God that His morality is irrelevant when dealing with Constitutional law???.lol???
Nice words. No meaning. I do have a core standard of behavior and morality. Treat your fellow human beings, animals and the planet well. Do not presume to understand what other feel or how they live their lives or what is in their hearts. Do not hide behind religion as an excuse for the way you treat others.
Hmmmm???.so you disregard the Creator and endorse His creation and derive your own set of morality in place of the one who has designed everything? God is the judge of the heart and the contents thereof Jeremiah 17: [9] The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
[10] I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
As far as hiding behind religion as a excuse ???..get real! Just because I will not lie to others and tell them that their behavior is normal doesn???t mean that I hate them but it mean just the opposite???you and others who refuse to tell them the truth are the ones who truly are treating them with contempt
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/16/2009 10:37:48 AM
So now..after talking like we are aniamals- you compare us to pedophiles? You do realize most pedophiles are straight adult men.... such as yourself?....
Yeah...
Pedophiles force themselves on young children who don't know what choices they are making & don't understand their feelings. The majority of these children suffer from long term effects of the abuse, only to grow into pedophiles & rapist themselves many times. How the *** can you relate that to homosexuals? You are a *** idiot.. seriously. We aren't hurting anyone... except maybe you because you are a weak individual who let's something that has absolutely nothing to do with your life effect you. Weak weak weak.
Oh I forgot.. you have your bible... forgot I can't question you lil thumper.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/27/2009 11:59:19 AM
So now..after talking like we are aniamals- you compare us to pedophiles? You do realize most pedophiles are straight adult men.... such as yourself?....
Yeah...
Pedophiles who engage in same sex relations with children are NOT! Heterosexuals but homosexuals???.heterosexuals don???t commit homosexual acts and still think that they are heterosexuals! This is called self-deception and living a lie.
Pedophiles force themselves on young children who don't know what choices they are making & don't understand their feelings. The majority of these children suffer from long term effects of the abuse, only to grow into pedophiles & rapist themselves many times. How the *** can you relate that to homosexuals?
If you would have read what I wrote you would have seen that the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) were the ones I was directing my post to so when you have a homosexual organization going after children then that is how I relate them to Pedophiles because this is what they endorse
You are a *** idiot.. seriously. We aren't hurting anyone... except maybe you because you are a weak individual who let's something that has absolutely nothing to do with your life effect you. Weak weak weak.
Oh I forgot.. you have your bible... forgot I can't question you lil thumper.
You are hurting everyone with your total disregard to the foundation of marriage and decency in relationships. It is the weak individual who lives in denial of their purpose in life and resorts to rebellion against the establishments of what is considered normal behavior???.Selah!
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/15/2009 3:32:51 PM
Thank you. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the homosexual lifestyle.. you are showing respect for people to live their lives as they wish. It is even more refreshing that it comes from someone who has based their opinions on facts and occurences, rather then just accepting stereotypes as "correct". There should be more americans- and more soldiers- like you. Good insight =0)
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Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/15/2009 6:05:46 PM
"Thank you."
You are welcome.
" Regardless of whether or not you agree with the homosexual lifestyle.. you are showing respect for people to live their lives as they wish. "
Personally I would not use the term lifestyle since there is not one "stlye" that the LGBT community engages in jsut as there is not one "style" the heterosexual community engages in. In fact, there is far more alike in the tow communities then there is different. . Also usng the term "lifestyle" plays into the hands of those who would erroneously state that it is choice, versus a biological imperative. As far as I am concerned it is nto different from heterosexuailty. It is attraction not sex and is normal and natural.
"It is even more refreshing that it comes from someone who has based their opinions on facts and occurences, rather then just accepting stereotypes as "correct". There should be more americans- and more soldiers- like you. Good insight =0)"
Thank you. For me the issue is one of logic and law. The prohbition cannot stand up to the Equal Protection clause. The facts and expereiinces of others militaries (including Canda, the UK and Israel) have proven that the claims of damage to unit cohesion/moral/effectiveness are false. I also have talked to many servicemembers, black and white who served before during and after the intergration of the US military and they all recounted the exact same, or strikingly similar comments about why intrgration was a bad idea and how those comments were proven false.
Although I understand the religious discomfort that some posters may have and the veiws that they were raised with, those things are NOT relevant to the military or the laws of the United States. They are also not representative of all believers in God or their religions. Although they may feel that those who feel differntly are not following what thier religons say, their opinions are of no relevance to the law and must never be allowed to affect same. Also, just because the think that thier views are correct does not make them so. As other posters have pointed out, religions are all man-made things and humans can interpret them however they choose. They matter only to those who choose to believe in them. If the governmetn decides to makeits laws based on the interpretation of only one group then said government is guilty of treason for violating the Establishment clause.
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/15/2009 3:17:14 PM
So once you got to the bible spouting I just decided to stop reading..... Its pointless going in circles with you. You say Im immoral, I say you are... so wheres the difference? The difference is that I don't care what you do with your life- as long as you leave people like me alone. I don't care if people don't accept being gay as "normal"... but you should respect people comes from different walks of life and experience different things. You should respect that you have no idea what it means to be gay or lesbian. You obviously weren't born with those feelings... and didn't have to choose between accepting who you were & being happy, or living a lie. It's a good thing you weren't born that way, considering you are weak- and would compromise your own happiness to be "normal" and live "the right way". Maybe you should have been born gay- would have ended up one less biggot who hung themselves a long time ago.
Do you honestly think you serve a purpose here? Do you really truly believe that any gays or lesbians have seen remarks you've made and even for a second doubted their lifestyle? I highly doubt that. We have lived our lives defending our feelings & rights against people like you... We aren't going to stop now because of some biggots on a computer screen.
You sit there and make your judgements on your bible... well guess what little bible thumper? There are many religions... many gods... many forms of "bibles"- what make you so sure you are right? You hide behind your religious convictions & your bible- now I know why you sound like a broken record- you can't think for yourself.
In regards to your statement... Obviously the "Sex" of the person is involved... due to labels & human ignorance- but that isn't what I was saying. What I was saying is that everyone keeps stating that private lives should be kept private.. and that "who you have sex with" should as well. Well, it isn't all about SEX..... you know? Not a persons gender- but *** rather. Theres so much more to being gay or lesbian then that- that's what I was saying. People like you are too narrowminded to even consider comprehending that gays & lesbians have families, careers, hobbies, & so on. Why even waste your time coming here- when you have no intention of opening your mind to the possibility that there's more to life then your bible?
Go on little thumper... preach on. But you have no basis or facts for your opinions-other then the stereotypes and assumptions you have grown accustom to. You know nothing of what it means to accept (or respect) anything other then "your way". So keep going in the direction down that cold narrowminded road your on... and take some of your biggot buddies with you.
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/14/2009 11:58:09 AM
Oh and my cussing.. yeah I cuss all the time. *** *** *** ***. I do it for shits & giggles... Guess I am going to hell for that one too.... well shucks.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/14/2009 1:07:21 PM
Well I wouldn't ever wish for you or anyone to ever go to hell! Even if you use profane words...lol
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/15/2009 2:03:55 PM
Well I said plenty more then that in an additional post... but who knows where it went. Call me a child or whatever... I could care less. You are just a biggot on a computer screen. I have dealt my whole life standing up to idiots like you... and look at me. Still Here & Gay... imagine that. You aren't here questioning my stances and beliefs.. you are one of the biggots here stating that they are flat out wrong. If you aren't even open to the concept of understanding that people are different from one another.. and learning to respect it.. then why continue to be here debating? Atleast I have respect... and facts... considering Im actually a lesbian. What facts are you basing any of this off of?... oh thats right.. whatever ones feed your biggot ways.
And I am def not coming here gettings all pissed off. I don't let you people piss me off.. I am good to go. I am here just scoping out the different views on the issue.... I am not here scrolling through seeking out ever gay basher & attacking them. Guess that makes me supppppper immature.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/26/2009 6:09:20 PM
You are basing facts off of your own confusion of sexuality and I???m suppose to believe you are a clear thinking individual? I see we are tossing around names again???.lol???you call me a bigot and yet you refuse to accept any different view that homosexuality is wrong???.lol..
You are a child and your ranting only validates my statements about you
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Posted By: sumtcb @ 01/14/2009 7:13:40 AM
wwwwwwww
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Posted By: sumtcb @ 01/13/2009 2:30:07 PM
calling people 4 letter words is a really mature way to try and convince people to sway your ways people. if you want us to take you seriously. GROW UP 1ST AND FOREMOST!!! i just dont agree with homosexuality because god said it was wrong. not me. if you want to cuss anyone cuss him. but i really dont recommend that. im kidding. but i dont expect you people to understand that because your not saved. how do i know that? you cant be because homosexuality contradicts gods word. but my point is it is our job as christians to talk to gay people and unbelievers for that matter that they are living in sin which looks great in this life but when you die will have consequences. homosexuality is just another one of that dirty devils schemes to get some people trapped into thinking it is ok. but its not ok. it is a sin.thats not my words. thats gods words. dont get me wrong i sin everyday just like the rest of us. i am no better than a murderer, a liar, a thief, or a homosexual. we are all equal to god yes but does he want us to do these things ?no. but its our duty to at least tell you now. cause when you die its to late. ITS ALL ABOUT FAITH IN GOD. live it. but go on calling me a bigot and cussing me out if you want to. but when you die , i just hope god is more forgiving than me.
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/13/2009 2:38:42 PM
Oh no. Stop... you might hurt my gay little feelings! HAHAHAHA. Cute. Good one. If spending my entire life HAPPY, rather then living a lie, means going to hell... Ill take my chances! But thank for speaking the "words of god" to me. I see the light now...
Im off to find penis and save the world with my heterosexual lifestyle...-
Posted By: sumtcb @ 01/14/2009 7:58:57 AM
my god i feel sorry for you. you keep thrashin out like a caged animal. to be so happy in your life you sure dont act like it. but i hope i have shed some light in your life. someone obviously needs to.
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Posted By: sumtcb @ 01/14/2009 8:24:03 AM
but im glad you found your penis. whatever that means ???
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/14/2009 11:27:51 AM
Hmm.... I said "Im off to find penis".. In nowhere in that statement did I say "My".. perhaps you should read the whole statement before proceeding to show me up. Great.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/15/2009 11:11:03 AM
Hmm.... I said "Im off to find penis".. In nowhere in that statement did I say "My".. perhaps you should read the whole statement before proceeding to show me up. Great.
Doesn't matter since you use the pronoun "I'm" it only implies that it "penis" the noun is what you are searching for thus the verb "find" indicated making it for you to seek for yourself and no one else... perhaps you should know what you are typing before correcting somebody for what you said that is true....you are searching for "penis" for yourself period......-
Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/15/2009 3:52:50 PM
Duh.. dumbass. Did you read the whole thing? No..again..running your mouth and you have no idea what you were talking about. Its called sarcasm- look it up in that dictionary you apparently just learned to use. I was mocking him..saying I was in search of a penis to "save" myself. Stupid ass. Do we have to spell everything out for you here?
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/27/2009 11:34:22 AM
Hmmm resorting to childish name calling once again..seems that you have never grasped the use of the English language to resort to such Ghetto talk...lol....but I feel your pain....just go back to school and get educated and not depend on your lifestyle to teach you nothing that will be useful to you in the future....Selah!
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/14/2009 11:03:05 AM
Me? A Caged animal? Wow..ya'll are just some funny little ***. When someone comes at me, thumpin their bible and telling me how to live my life- what do you think Im going to do... blow you some kisses? Go to a forum for people trying to decide what to do with there lives, and pressure them. I know who I am, I know what makes me happy. Nothing will change that, ever... not even your bible. If you read my post, you would have seen that I stated I will take my chances going to hell, then live a unhappy life.... was I asking for you to save me? No..I think I made my point very clear. If you want to base all the choices in your life on your bible (or the portions of your bible that you chose to acknowledge) then so be it. Not eevryone chooses to live your life, and live by your ways. Not everyone needs to be "saved" to figure out their lives. People have their own forms of "god", their own choices, and their own lives to lead. If you read my article you would have also noted the part about people like You.... narrowminded individuals who have a right to their believes, but discrimnate & try to pressure others into their ways. it'll be quite a hoot for you when you get to heaven for a split second, and find God is actually quite liberal and banishes you straight to hell for the ways in which you are stuck, and the way you treat others who are unlike you. Maybe it's you that needs to be "saved"..
Im awesome, but thanks for the offer.... hah. -
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 01/14/2009 9:15:28 AM
Check it out...now he's a psychologist.
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 01/14/2009 9:57:43 AM
"i just dont agree with homosexuality because god said it was wrong. not me. "
That is what you believe, not a fact.
"but i dont expect you people to understand that because your not saved."
No one needs to be "saved" so that is not a valid answer. Aas if some dead human being could save someone two thousand years after his all too human death.
" how do i know that? you cant be because homosexuality contradicts gods word."
Again you belief. Since there is no god outside of the human imagination that is a moot issue.
"but my point is it is our job as christians to talk to gay people and unbelievers for that matter that they are living in sin which looks great in this life but when you die will have consequences."
Bogus job. There is nothing after this life. Just decay and decomposition. No other consequences. No big deal.
" ITS ALL ABOUT FAITH IN GOD."
No it is ALL about US LAW and adherence to the US Constitution which the ONLY sacred document to the US Government and the country as an entity. So called gods are irrelevant. -
Posted By: Doc Howl @ 01/14/2009 9:14:43 AM
" ITS ALL ABOUT FAITH IN GOD."
Actually, it's all about an executive order. Your side lost, hippie.
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Posted By: Doc Howl @ 01/16/2009 4:53:50 PM
Bojack: Your religion is irrelevant to the issue. On the other hand, YOU are also irrelevant, as your candidates lost the election. You have absolutely no say in how this is going to work out.
Personally, I find that to be hilarious. I hope you enjoy the next 8 years as much as I enjoyed the last eight.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 01/27/2009 11:11:04 AM
True I have no say in how this is going to work out but I do have the right to vote in 2012 and get rid of the Obamanation that is presently occupying the WH
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Posted By: marinemeatball @ 01/26/2009 11:55:21 AM
Constitution Lover, You have made some good and thought out points. I appreciate your help to military members. I guess I don't have the answer. I can only have effect on my little corner of the world at any given moment. Ronald Reagan said: "Some people wonder if they have made a difference in the world, U.S. Marines don't have that problem." I have given my best to be the best. I look at myself every morning in the mirror and see a U.S. Marine and know that I gave 100 percent.
If I ever forget then the scars of war on my body are there to remind me. I carry them with pride. Physically and mentally, they are a badge of honor. I knew that this was just the price that we pay. You have had a glimpse into the mind of a U.S. warrior. Semper Fi means always faithful. I hope that my efforts have made a difference in the preservation of the constitution and the rights and freedom of the American people. Good luck to you my friend.
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Posted By: marinemeatball @ 01/22/2009 5:36:13 PM
To Constitution Lover,
Those are some very well thought out and well proposed points.
I respect that.
Like I said, If someone comes to me in confidence then the matter stays between us.
I don't look through other service members wallets and make snap judgements either.
My fear is that if those of us that use good judgement and genuinely care about our fellow members, who are of course the true leaders, bail out in droves. I fear the results. This is not some corporation we are talking about experimenting with. It is the sheild from tyranny and those who wish to rape and kill our children, siblings, parents and friends. There are those that will read that last statement and laugh because they are nieve. Make no mistake about it, they are out there in numbers and they won't play by our rules and morality. They will execute you and laugh as they revel in it. I have met some of them. It tears at my heart that human beings could be so cruel but, some are. I fear if congress crams this down our throats in the manner they are proposing it may be close to the end of our great nation. We hate war the most because we are the ones who must go to the fight. I must admit that we are losing faith in congress. Yet we follow orders and do what we are told. We serve faithfully. We are under the impression that congress views us as just garbagemen that go overseas and clean up their mess. Now is a bad time to propose this. US Government philosophy, (if it ain't broke, fix it till it is.) I am sorry that this is how things currently are but I have made unimaginable sacrifices and others "gay or not" will have to also. If this is crammed down our throats, it will hurt moral and it is going to hurt gays who are currently serving. Of coarse, they cannot say so in public. They have made a huge sacrifice already and are true heroes to me.-
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/22/2009 10:49:31 PM
One other question.
You made the comment
"My fear is that if those of us that use good judgement and genuinely care about our fellow members, who are of course the true leaders, bail out in droves. I fear the results. "
Why would soldiers that use good judgement and genuinely care about your fellow members bail out in droves? I would imagine that those people would want to remain. Is it not more likely that reprobates like Nightstalker would leave?
Just wondering.-
Posted By: marinemeatball @ 01/23/2009 1:00:54 AM
I am not going to debate the fact that the military was integrated with color at one time is anything like this issue. They are different.
We are tired of putting our lives on the line and being treated like children.
I have also served with foreign forces many times and the Brits for example think that we are crazy. They have gays and women in their military. So do the isrealis. They just don't make a big deal about it. Back to "who cares".
If one of the guys in the british services say's something sexual to one of their women that's not acceptable to her she tells him to bugger off. They don't understand why we make a federal case out of it. I have had so many sexual harrasment briefs that I can recite them in my sleep. The foreign services don't understand why we make such a big deal out of all this stuff. A Sergeant tells a Private to stop it , that should be the end of it, and if he doesn't then that's disobeying an order. That's different. That's how they have made integration of gays into their military succesful. They didn't make it into a political statement. They didn't make a big deal out of it
They didn't use their military as a political bull pulpit.
Accepting gays into the military, no problem.
Cramming acceptance down our throut. problem.
Yes, many prisoners are afforded more rights then we are. You did read the part I wrote about sacrifice right?
Why would we bail out in droves. Because we can, The expression is one of the rights we still have. If many of us decide to seperate, who is going to stop us?
One parting thought, Did The Honorable Mr. Obama ask us what we thought?
A survey, A poll.
A genuinely unbiased one.
It's been done on other issues in the past.
Is he going to let us get used to him before he crams this down our throat just to please some few rich contributors to his campaign, who have never risked their lives?
Has he earned our trust?
Disrespect in the military is not tolerated but, respect is earned.
Yes, Mr. Obama is the President US. He can set any policy he wants. I will obey his orders.
If I don't like it I can seperate......-
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/23/2009 10:20:19 AM
I agree that it should not be crammed down your throat. That is why my slow but sure idea might work. No cramming. Gradual acclimation.
And I also agree that there needs to be a ratcheting down of the vitriol.
I in no way think that it is the military personnel who are doing the vitriol. I talked to several gay people and askled why there seems to be this ramped up invective. Theya ll said the same thing.
Ask the small but verbal Ultra Conservative Chrstains about it. They are the ones who keep the fire and brimstine garbage going on. Using terminoly like Nightstalker did. Putting out false warnings about pedophies and AIDS. Trying to force their religious views on the military and the Government. Every gay I talk to says that they are not demanding that they satop believing what they do, jsut not make gays a traget of attack. It is not the military or mainstream Christins that do that. It is the Ultra-Cons who do it.
From whta I have heard from minastream gays, if there could be civil discourse, they would not be fighting as strongly. They would let the slow but sure work, as it is slowly working for the Afriacan American Community. Also if they saw more forward motion in general society they would not be pushing for suvh rapid chagnes in the Military.
Does that make any sense?
BTW, I emapthize with the stresses that you are under. You are doing an extremely difficult job under very trying circumstances. As I have said, you guys are heroes. Please never think that I do not hold you and your fellow soldiers in the highest regard and that you do not have my undying gratitude and thanks. There are many families of servicemembers in my neighborhood. I always make sure to be there to help them in whatever way I can. I have helped them keep their computers working and have done repairs around the house for them, and help them set up record keeping systems so that that is one less stress point in their lives. My wife and I has also done babysitting/childcare so that they can have some time for themselves (or time wth their spouses when they return). It is my way of honoring both them and you.
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Posted By: marinemeatball @ 01/23/2009 12:57:54 AM
Nightstalker bailed a long time ago. when he left times weren't as trying as they are now. The deployment cycle is more grueling then even during Vietnam. If we are not in Afganistan then we're in Iraq or Africa. If we are home we are supporting other operations. Many have already left. You cannot put someone through school for a month and expect him to be an aircraft guru as an example. Much experience has left. Training the younger guys, keeping them alive and doing the job too is wearing us out. Ever work 18-20 hour days for over a year without a day off? I have and I wasn't staying in any hotel at the time. Ever heard of the straw that broke the camels back? Like I said, I don't have a problem with gays. I do have a problem with getting acceptance cramed down my throat.
As for the closet racists, I met some black guys in the 80's that were very racist. I met some others here and there that were also regardless of color. I don't really see much of it anymore in the Marines, but it exists. There are bad apples in every bunch. The military is made up of a cross section of our society. It is truly a melting pot. Racism is not tolerated on my watch. If you read my prior posts you already know my feelings. There is no time for that nonsense in a combat zone. Yes, times have changed.
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Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/22/2009 10:43:06 PM
You make some good commens but I am concerned that what you say will always be given as a reason to not let gays be who they are and to penalize them if their sexual orientation is exposed
Now if slowly but surely the rules were changed so that:
1. simply going to your commanding officers and saying that you are gay was guaranteed NOt to get you out (which as you say is unlikely to happen anyway).
2. What you do off base (ei going to gay bars) could not adversely effect your status
3. What you say in private to a senior officer could not adversely effect your status
4. Not let a person be adversely effected if it cameout that they were gay.
That first step as well as slow but sure desensitizing the troops to homosexuality so that they can be more open over time. (yes I know that some will never accept it but you and I know that there are a small number closet racists in the military who deal with serving with African Americans)
Do you think that that might work?
I guess that I am trying to figure out a compromise so that some of the truly discriminatory parts of DADT can be gotten rid of while slowly but surely helping the troops not have problems with serving with openly gay people.
Also it might be useful to find out how the other countries solved the problem, since they have done so.
I am just not sure. I personally have serious Constitutional problems with DADT. And as I said, I know a lot of straight past and present servicemembers who have no problem with openly gay troops.
But I respect that you have been and still are in the middle of it and have made some of the most reasonable comments I have heard in years.
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Posted By: marinemeatball @ 01/22/2009 5:48:19 PM
Let me mention this also, I have seen people go to the Commanding Officer and state that they are gay because they were scared and trying to get kicked out. This has happened quite a bit actually and the CO usually says, gay or not, OK so what, "Now get out there and do your damn job!" I think gay persecution and gay bashing occurs in much greater numbers in civilian life than in the military, This is only my opinion I remind you and, not official policy. We are more progressive and open minded than the gay activists groups. Unoffically of course. People who are not serving stereotype us. It's not like the movies. Nothing like the media portrays, and definitely not like all the perceptions. I wish the non-military gay community could see this.
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Posted By: marinemeatball @ 01/22/2009 11:48:37 AM
I will post my comments but not get into an argument about it. I recently returned from Iraq again. I am a Gunnery Sergeant in the United States Marines. I have 3 combat action ribbons and have been decorated numerous times and yes, I have been decorated for valor in combat. Just so you know where I stand. Here is how the majority of the Marines I know feel (men and women). It doesn't matter to us if you are black or white, yellow, red or green. We have no time for prejudice behavior. We don't tolerate it. We all bleed red. What kills me is how people who have never served have such an opinion about something they know nothing about. To those I say, you have no idea and can't even imagine how hard it is to do this. The sacrifices and horrors endured are imaginable. Ok now pay attention so you don't miss the point here. I don't hate gay people. The leaders of today are not "out to get gay people". If I knew you were gay I would not say a word about it, unless you stood in the middle of a platoon pronouncing your sexuality.First of all, NO ONE HERE CARES!What we do care about is someone openly gay making everyone uncomfortable. I may be physically attracted to another military member but I would keep that to myself because it could make them uncomfortable. I may think that someone else in my command talks funny or even has noticeable mannerisms but I would not say anything because 1 It is not important 2 It may distract them from the mission. 3 There is no time for it. The demands placed on todays military are mind staggering. I could care less what your sexual orientation is. What I and most military people do care about is using the military as a platform to proclaim your opinions. It is distracting and it takes everything that we have to keep focused on our mission of today. If you want to join then shut up and grow some guts and join. If you're a pig poinker or a traditional spouse and kids person, or want to live with three women and two guys, or believe in UFO's. Great keep it to yourself. If you are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, agnostic or Satanist, Great, worship but don't push it on me. This is not the platform to cram anyone's beliefs down our throat. Your beliefs are no better than anyone else. That's America at its finest. I have served beside gays. But, the day we are on the battle field and you start telling me about how great it is banging dogs or the same sex or the opposite sex is the day that you will literally wish that you had never met me because you are endangering my life and the life of the others in my charge. You will hate life. If you think you are remotely tough enough to be one of us then join up. If all you want to do is come in and sing the praises of your wonderful opinions then you are in for a rough ride. In case you forgot, we are warriors! Get with program. You won't have time to think about yourself. For those who fight for it, life has a special flavor the protected never know. GySgt G USMC
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Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/22/2009 12:55:04 PM
Gunnery Sergeant,
First of I want to extend my sincere thanks, gratitude and admiration for your honorable service to this country.
I understand what you are saying. I first need to preface my comments with the fact the I myself am heterosexual and married so my comments are not from personal experience but from talking to both straight and gay past and present servicemembers.
What concerns me is that there is this assumption that if DADT was voided that suddenly gay soldiers would suddenly start wearing pink ribbons and dance on the tables. That they would suddenly start getting up on their barracks and start looking at the guy next to them and say ???woo hoo baby you have a cute butt!???. That they would make a big public issue of their sexual orientation. That they would talk about their sexual attractions any more than heterosexual soldiers do (and in all probability they would talk less because, as you said teywould figure out pretty quickly what is and is not appropriate talk in combat.).
The reality is that it is very unlikely that those things would happen. The reality is that most gay soldiers would not make any issue of it at all. But what would happen if DATA was voided is that if they wanted to go to a gay bar after hours that they would not have to fear being punished. That if they wanted to carry around a picture of their partner, just as heterosexual servicemembers often have pictures of their significant others that they would not have to worry about being punished. If they wanted to talk to someone about the stresses that they are experiencing that if they mentioned how they were worried about leaving their partner alone, that that would come back to adversely affect them. Those are the realities of why DADT is wrong. Would there be some gay or lesbian servicemembers who cross the line? Yes. But there are also heterosexual servicemembers who have done, do and will do the same. Remember TailHook. I think that more is being made of the sexual attraction then is valid. What is your opinion on the issues?
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Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 01/08/2009 6:48:34 PM
Let them in, let them have their little gay happy time. Hopefully a bunch of them will die off.
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/21/2009 9:24:40 AM
Just for shits & giggles... go find an out gay person and have the nerve to say that to their face. Something tells me your jaw would be cracked into the pavement. Disrespect us all you want hiding behind your computer.... but I don't see you biggots out doing anything about our "happy little gay life". The ones of you that actually have the balls to go out and do anything usually go to intensely sick extremes that even yourselves (if you were on the outside looking in) would condemn. If we are out & proud, then we've obviously have gone through a lot of trials and tribulations to get where we are. You, and others like you, are obviously weak individuals who have been raised to do what is "normal" & right, regardless of your feelings. Hmm... a homosexual who's used to defending themselves & has faught to stand proud, or a little weak bitch who runs their mouth behind a pc screen- who has a better chance of dieing in the field?
Loser. -
Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/08/2009 10:39:16 PM
I feel sorry for you.
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Posted By: whatisreal? @ 01/08/2009 8:28:15 PM
Freak...
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Posted By: elCidSS11 @ 01/08/2009 3:36:59 PM
Put them on the front line with cap guns! This country has swung so far left it's discusting. Being gay is flat out wrong, whether your bring religion in the picture or not. Lets think logically: if we earthlings were supposed to be that way then 2 men or 2 women could produce an offspring. A world full of gays just makes a world die of STDS and AIDS! It wouldn't be such a problem if all these fruitcakes didn't force their beliefs and ways on everyone and act like they did. There has been gays since the world began, but when did all the parading crap start?? Oh yea, when our society was told to except EVERYTHING under the sun....right, wrong, indifferent. How about all the queers go to CA with all the wacko celeberties and let CA be their own country.
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/19/2009 11:00:23 AM
Every word that comes out of your mouth just further proves how ignorant and living by the sterotypes you are. You know nothing about being gay. You don't know what it's like to be born with feelings towards someone of the same sex, and disgust for the opposite sex. You don't know why we have our parades, and our clubs. You have no idea what it's like to choose between a lifetime of happiness that is subject to hatred & abuse from others, or to be sad & not yourself- but accepted as "normal" by society. You have no experience or knowledge of this yourself, yet you think you know everything. Has anyone ever told you how you should feel- and you look at them like they are insane? Im sure you have- because you know how you feel better then anyone else. So what would you say to that person? Correct them, or back down and submit to Their beliefs? A weak, narrowminded individual such as yourself would back down & hide the truth to make everyone else happy- but that wouldn't change your feelings, because you can't help how you feel. We aren't broke & we don't need fixing, we just know how we feel & won't go through our lifes ignoring it jsut to give people like you some comfort at night.
The gay community pitys pathetic individuals like you. You should be jealous of us. Atleast we do what we need to do to take care of ourselves & what makes US happy. We don't live life by some prewritten rules people told us were "ok" ahead of time. Many of us tried that for many years.... and realized if WE wanted to LIVE FOR OURSELVES & NOT NARROWMINDED BIGGOTS LIKE YOU. There ios nothing wrong with being straight, but many of us are not & people like you would rather pretend otherwise instead of seeing outside the box. We needed to be out and proud... we needed to stand together- that's why we have our parades & our clubs. It hasn't, & may never, be easy for us- but we CHOOSE to be happy.... even if it doesn't suit your needs.
As far as your kids go.. well lets hope for your kids sake they don't turn out gay... with a part as narrowminded as you they would surely shoot themselves. Im sure someone like you would have no problem sleeping at night afterwards... after all... you read something that says it's wrong so OBVIOUSLY your kid would have had to been brainwashed into being gay when you weren't looking.
Weak. very weak. -
Posted By: Chuck_G @ 01/08/2009 3:46:52 PM
Thank you for those enlightening remarks, elestupido.
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Posted By: YinYangEQ @ 01/08/2009 3:52:06 PM
I think the only thing that made sense in that entire post was "wacko celebrities"!
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Posted By: Niles @ 01/08/2009 4:03:27 PM
Homosexuality may be a choice, or it may not. Either way it's irrelevant. As a person who doesn't want to be drafted, claiming to be gay is my ticket out of the military if they ever decide to draft me! I'm not actually gay, but I have a friend who feels the same way I do and if it comes down to it we would vouch for each other.
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Posted By: kinnd @ 01/08/2009 4:07:03 PM
I hope you never have to prove your "gayness"...That is a very cheap way of proving how much of a wimp you really are...
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Posted By: ta2t2o @ 01/08/2009 4:14:37 PM
According to the existing policy - you don't have to prove it - it applies simply if you Tell It. You've just made the entire arguement for why Don't Ask, Don't Tell is a ridiculous policy.
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Posted By: Niles @ 01/08/2009 4:21:46 PM
Yup, it is ridiculous. But as long as it's there, it opens a hole in selective service so wide you can drive a Peterbilt through it. And trust me, if there is ever a real national emergency that's so bad they decide to implement a draft, there will be millions of draft-dodgers out there who will publically proclaim their gayness.
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Posted By: phigrroe @ 01/19/2009 10:46:02 AM
FYI it doesn't apply in times of war. if they want to draft you they will- gay & out or not... Either way, a draft is a draft. They draft you & you put on a pinky frilly tutu.... you are still going to war.
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Posted By: bevanrus99 @ 01/16/2009 6:19:04 PM
I am personally against allowing gays to serve openly in the military for a few reasons. I too could bring up the topic of religion as I am a Christian. Some of you mentioned that it is not relevant to the topic, but it is very relevent considering service members are not required to do anything that violates religious beliefs and for many that would be working alongside homosexuals. Another reason that needs to come to light is that gays should have there own bathroom and showering facilities. Supporters of gays in military have questioned this idea saying that men should be able to use the same facilities no matter what sexuality, but my reply is to ask them if they get the pleasure of showering with the opposite sex? Why should homosexuals be able to use facilities with men they could possibly be attracted to? Then there comes a whole different issue of sexual harrassment. I can guarantee you that sexual harrassment complaints would fly through the roof if gays were openly serving.
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Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 01/19/2009 10:20:47 AM
"Some of you mentioned that it is not relevant to the topic, but it is very relevent considering service members are not required to do anything that violates religious beliefs and for many that would be working alongside homosexuals."
Actually that is not true. The same reasons were given by servicemembers who objected to intergrating the military and they were told that they had not choice. The same was done when women wntered the military. My father related running into that same garbage as it related to serving alongside Jews. It is pure garbage.
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