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  • Posted By: dipper81 @ 01/08/2009 4:44:04 PM

    also you do not have to accept what you tolerate you may not want gay people to be married or in the military but it's our right as americans to be free and I still don't understand how anyone can say they have all the answers this is right or this is wrong you don't really know you are going on faith.....so as AMERICANS we should allow everyone to have their own freedom allow people to pursue what ever makes them happy...that is something the forefathers thought was important also

  • Posted By: sharkyluvsmj @ 01/08/2009 4:43:56 PM

    Matthew 7
    1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

  • Posted By: v0714x @ 01/08/2009 1:40:02 PM

    Gay people are still people, but that is NOT the issue. As of now, gays ARE allowed to serve in the military; however, they are not allowed to be open about it. Why? Because unlike both you and I who do not have a problem with gay people, many men and women in the services either hate or dislike gay men and women. This causes conflict. Many of those men and women that do not like gay people WILL NOT work beside one. The questions then become simple: How many men and women will be lost from the services if gay men and women can be open about their sexuality? Would gay people be segregated in barracks because of straight people???s discomfort around them? What is positive about gays being open? I suggest that there are none. Gay men and women can still enlist in any service and I am glad about that, but most people are uncomfortable rooming with a gay person. Even though it is not wrong to be gay, being open about it in certain scenarios can cause conflict and can put our military at risk. Anyways, please get your facts straight before you ramble on like an ignorant jackass. Know the facts and form an argument.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/08/2009 1:44:55 PM

      If you Yanks had any discipline in your troops, this wouldn't be a problem.

      • Posted By: whatisreal? @ 01/08/2009 4:43:10 PM

        We just need to grow up some,well a lot...

  • Posted By: jvn715 @ 01/08/2009 4:42:57 PM

    This is the MILITARY!! THe MILITARY!! What does it matter in MILITARY if you like this kind of lady, or that kind of a guy. I am not in the military but, if I was in a such position-- I WOULD NOT CARE if you anybody was gay or straight I just here to do the most important job in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. This is just a RIDICULOUS issue, what does it mean to serve openly- does it mean that gays put on an LGBT star. Men go through TRAINING with MEN and Women with WOMEN, seperate barracks because the UNIVERSAL DIFFERENCEs they have. You are still a guy even if you like them but, nobody cares about this DIFFERENCE because we HAVE this JOB to carry out. Nobody cares if YOU ARE black, green, purple or even a MUSLIM oooo, YOU ALL HAVE a job to do there is no TIME TO WORRY ABOUT differences. Who CARES, do gays want all gay units-- believe me with blacks, jews, hispanics, muslims ALL OF their DIFFERENCES are not supposed to EVEN EXIST you are one unit, one person, one mission. You are not BLACK, JEWISH, HISPANICS, MUSLIM just . . . GREEN. Stop trying to CLARIFY the divisions in the army because THE ARMY IS ABOUT UNITY and gays would make that unity that much HARDER to see the ONENESS we all share. It doesn't MATTER how you feel about GAYS but it is something PLAYS A huge role in YOUR IDENTITY (I do NOT THINK IT SHOULD) but every you go someone needs to tell you their gay ( I Don't know why-- they SHOULD JUST BE GAY, none of your business free country and enjoy your freedom brother/sister). Since being GAy is such an important part of one's identity even if it is just an 'Sexual orientation' people that should not matter to anyone-- just that their choice is respected-- It SHOULD NOOTT BE -ACTIVELY- ADDRESSed that somebody is GAY in the military. There are gays right now in the military that do not want this to happen but coming out with their dismay about this would infuriate a lot of gays in this country. IN the army you are not black or jewish anymore just GREEn and in your veins its red white and blue, stop distracting OUR boys, OUR fellow americans from this duty.

  • Posted By: jvn715 @ 01/08/2009 4:41:39 PM

    dipper81 - learn this word "CHRISTIANITY' many teachings come from the old TESTAMENT like the Ten commandments but the old TESTAMENT was about a covenant between Israel and God-- Christ came and it changeD . . .
    Christ said to them to ignore the teaching of AN EYE FOR AN EYE but to love your ENEMIES- love your ENEMIES, pray for them. THE new TESTAMENT is of a NEW COVENANT WITH the entire WORLD 'go forth and spread' Christianity is VEHICLE which the name of GOD has been spread not judaism learn the new testament, learn about what love really IS.
    But why are we talking about this when THE BLOG IS about the place of sexual orientation in the army.
    Maybe being GAY is a genetic condition but WE ALWAYS choose to suppress or excite this GENE (I don't agree with this) and being gay is not alcoholism nobody is hurt by this IT IS A FREEDOM that all men have the RIGHT to EXercise!!

  • Posted By: Leann Bishop @ 01/08/2009 4:40:31 PM

    I agree with the dont ask dont tell policy- i am a big supporter in homosexuality and i am also a military wife but i ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE gays should be able to be openly gay in the military - the world as a whole is changing drastically and i think that permitting this to happen just ruins it further...it has been a certain way for years why change it now?? I think it will just make matters worse!! And besides why should we worry about whether gays can come out openly in the military right now and put more concern in the war we fighting in-
    homosexuals have been open in the military for a while nowwith some descresion i guess when it becomes pulicized and final thats the diffrence...
    Why does everyone refer to the bible when you talk about gays...???? you never here ppl bring up bible verses when someone has been abused or sexually assaulted?? Why is it always the topic of gays that brings out the bible

  • Posted By: dipper81 @ 01/08/2009 4:39:14 PM

    and just to make this clear some of us do not think being gay is wrong or evil so your preaching is falling on def ears

  • Posted By: chefpique @ 01/08/2009 1:51:08 PM

    Hey Horrible Bastard, why do they call you horrible?

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/08/2009 2:01:35 PM

      It's my wife's pet name for me.

      • Posted By: chefpique @ 01/08/2009 2:10:53 PM

        You're f***ing great. I wish all of the posters on here were more like you. I'll see that pint of John Smiths and raise a pint of Pedigree.

        • Posted By: whatisreal? @ 01/08/2009 4:37:19 PM

          Well you know what you are going to get with him, that is for sure:)

  • Posted By: JiSim @ 01/08/2009 4:36:52 PM

    Matthew 5:27-28
    "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."
    In other words, if you think about having sex with another person, even for an instant, you have committed sin equal to having sex with said person. That is why I had my penis removed. My the LORD have mercy on your lecherous souls.

  • Posted By: fuct0713 @ 01/08/2009 1:52:01 PM

    Let the military members vote on it. The issue does not affect anyone else. Civilians should not say how the military should live. They do not have a choice when we are on the front lines? They do not pull the trigger for me! They should not allow any extra stress in our lives as a community. To ensure the different views are met the issue should be visted every 5 to 10 years. But the civilian and the actors with money should stop trying to change issues that do not hender their life. Civilian crying has taken away the 10 commandments! Only 10 percent of the population wanted it removed? because I do not have the money to lobby, or need the votes; I have to pay for it. this country needs to let the people vote on issues thay deal with them. A union does not let another business vote on their contract, why should you?

    • Posted By: whatisreal? @ 01/08/2009 4:35:57 PM

      The military is run by civilians, it serves and protects them. The military will follow the civilian world, adn in this case it will happen. The transition is what we need to put our focus on, to protect the interests and rights of everybody as much as possible...

    • Posted By: Dave789 @ 01/08/2009 2:01:43 PM

      And if the military vote in favor of gays, one can call on the mormons to have it rteversed. Yes?

  • Posted By: Sam79 @ 01/08/2009 4:25:24 PM

    I haven't read or heard such cruel bias in a LONG, LONG time. I am a straight woman who is disgusted with the writings of some of you. As far as whether gays should be "allowed" to serve openly in the military - it's just another example of prejudice and denying basic human rights. The word "allow" shouldn't even be in that question - any more than should gays be "allowed" to marry. Someone's sexual orientation is just one facet of who he or she is as a human being, like having blue eyes, black hair, brown skin, etc. You so-called Christians should practice what Jesus was all about - tolerance, acceptance, and unconditional love, to name a few. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS and just live your own lives - don't try to dictate how others should live their lives and, by the way, homosexuality is NOT a choice.

  • Posted By: dipper81 @ 01/08/2009 4:34:31 PM

    I see more straight couples doind PDA then gay couples ever and whats wrong with explaining to your child that some people live a different lifestyle than you and to be tolerant were others are not it's the children of biggots like yourselves that go gay bashing and do other kinds of intolerant things to try to make someone else seem less significant then you or they are.

  • Posted By: jvn715 @ 01/08/2009 4:34:25 PM

    slow down sam79 Jesus loved all and the two greatest was to 'love your brother as you love yourself and love your God with all your mind, heart, and body'
    He told us not to 'resist evil' and thus to tolerant was a TESTAMENT of faith but It IS COMPLETELY different to say 'ACCEPTANCE' of practices you find deplorable- Gays find that ignoring their equal right to be something they cannot ACCEPT and with their recent acts after prop 8 they showed the nation that some, some, gays could not TOLERATE and had to act their frustration out on the other people . . . Accept God do not accept was is APART from HIM- do not resist with evil but do ACCEPT ways apart from God either. - read this
    This is the MILITARY!! THe MILITARY!! What does it matter in MILITARY if you like this kind of lady, or that kind of a guy. I am not in the military but, if I was in a such position-- I WOULD NOT CARE if you anybody was gay or straight I just here to do the most important job in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. This is just a RIDICULOUS issue, what does it mean to serve openly- does it mean that gays put on an LGBT star. Men go through TRAINING with MEN and Women with WOMEN, seperate barracks because the UNIVERSAL DIFFERENCEs they have. You are still a guy even if you like them but, nobody cares about this DIFFERENCE because we HAVE this JOB to carry out. Nobody cares if YOU ARE black, green, purple or even a MUSLIM oooo, YOU ALL HAVE a job to do there is no TIME TO WORRY ABOUT differences. Who CARES, do gays want all gay units-- believe me with blacks, jews, hispanics, muslims ALL OF their DIFFERENCES are not supposed to EVEN EXIST you are one unit, one person, one mission. You are not BLACK, JEWISH, HISPANICS, MUSLIM just . . . GREEN. Stop trying to CLARIFY the divisions in the army because THE ARMY IS ABOUT UNITY and gays would make that unity that much HARDER to see the ONENESS we all share. It doesn't MATTER how you feel about GAYS but it is something PLAYS A huge role in YOUR IDENTITY (I do NOT THINK IT SHOULD) but every you go someone needs to tell you their gay ( I Don't know why-- they SHOULD JUST BE GAY, none of your business free country and enjoy your freedom brother/sister). Since being GAy is such an important part of one's identity even if it is just an 'Sexual orientation' people that should not matter to anyone-- just that their choice is respected-- It SHOULD NOOTT BE -ACTIVELY- ADDRESSed that somebody is GAY in the military. There are gays right now in the military that do not want this to happen but coming out with their dismay about this would infuriate a lot of gays in this country. IN the army you are not black or jewish anymore just GREEn and in your veins its red white and blue, stop distracting OUR boys, OUR fellow americans from this duty.

  • Posted By: Niles @ 01/08/2009 4:33:22 PM

    ta2t2o:

    Israel has gays in their military.

    Hamas is an Islamist organization, and according to Islamic law gays should be, and generally are, stoned to death.

    Casualty count: Israel: about 5 members of the military Hamas: more than 300 armed fighters.

    Not commenting on who is right or who is wrong, but clearly a military that includes gay members can fight.

    But I still am glad ours does not, so I don't have to fight.

  • Posted By: corradoborg @ 01/08/2009 2:49:29 PM

    I am fully aware that the military is a more conservative group than the general US population. My own brother is a Gunny in the Marines and is VERY conservative. Even so, I am shocked and saddened by the extraordinary levels of bigotry and hatred exhibited in the posts in this thread... some of it disguised as religious opinion, but much of it just left right out in the open.

    Face it people: gays and lesbians are just regular people. Those of you who wish to label homosexuality as an "abomination," or a "sin," or just plain "wrong" are arguing against scientific fact. The incontrovertible truth is that people are either born straight or gay. And while homosexuals are the minority in society, there are far more of them than you know. Current estimates are that the ratio of gays to straights in the general population is somewhere between 1 in 10 and 1 in 20. Therefore, in simple terms, if you know 20 people you know a gay person - whether you're aware of it or not.

    Several recent scientific studies have revealed that the brain structures of men and women are different, and that the brains of gay men resemble those of women and the brains of lesbian women resemble those of men. While some small aspects of brain structure can be slightly influenced by the way a person thinks (nurture), most of the structures found to differ between gays and straights of the same gender are formed in the womb (nature). This means that they were MADE the way they are. There are also countless examples of homosexuality in lower animals, which means that "being gay" evolved long before humans even existed. If homosexuality were a choice, how could animals that mate purely out of instinct and chemical response to pheromones make that choice?

    Those of you who would use Jesus Christ to support your arguments against homosexuality should be ashamed of yourselves. You are NOT Christians. Sure, you can find scripture in the Bible to support anything you want (even rape and murder!), but the Bible is so contradictory that you can always find scripture to debunk the same argument elsewhere in the text. The REAL Christian argument is whether or not Christ himself would have persecuted homosexuals. Keep in mind this is a man who regularly hung out with the castoffs of society: lepers, prostitutes, etc. I submit that homosexuals would have been (and probably were) part of his contemporary following, and that Jesus loved them as much as he loved everyone else. Whether or not he agreed with their sexual orientation, and even if he preached against it, Jesus would not have approved of denying ANY human their basic rights.

    Post continues...

    • Posted By: larapture @ 01/08/2009 4:29:59 PM

      Gays might be here to stay but I hope not openly. This is a sin people. If gays want to serve let them. Parading your sin as though there is nothing wrong with it is an abomination (God's Word). Is anybody reading a Bible (the one about Jesus the Christ)?

  • Posted By: Plaid11 @ 01/08/2009 2:07:47 PM

    No this country was not founded on the christian doctrine, but it was founded under God!

    • Posted By: Godfollower @ 01/08/2009 2:11:52 PM

      Thats a weird response - For the word of God (THE BIBLE) comes from God and from the middle east.....Christians came and settled here.....so get your stuff together....and go read Your History Book.

      • Posted By: whatisreal? @ 01/08/2009 4:29:34 PM

        Ya, that does not mean this is a theocracy. There were a lot more than Christians who settled here. And there are many Christains who have been battling the "evangelical" Christians for years to try and separate themselves from the dogma that you so easily spaout and want to spread. It is an embarassment for thinking Christians to associate themselves with it.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/08/2009 2:21:47 PM

      Your nation was founded in 1953? What?

  • Posted By: ta2t2o @ 01/08/2009 4:24:21 PM

    24 other nations, including Great Britain, Australia, Canada and Israel, already allow open service by gays and lesbians, and none of the 24 report morale or recruitment problems. 9 nations allowing open service have fought alongside American troops in Operation Iraqi Freedom. In addition, 12 nations allowing open service fought alongside U.S. troops in Operation Enduring Freedom.

    • Posted By: Niles @ 01/08/2009 4:29:20 PM

      Well dang, the Israelis have already suffered like 5 casualites (vs. 300 Hamas fighters.) I wonder if Islamists like Hamas let gays fight. Oh yeah, they stone them to death.

      Obviously, militaries with gay members can't fight.

  • Posted By: elCidSS11 @ 01/08/2009 4:28:03 PM

    YinYangEQ: Absolutely right about the parenting. We all try with those things, but you know dang well parents aren't (and shouldn't) be around 24/7. Scans through the channels and sees that crap on MTV (it's always on). But not even that...Go to a local mall in a fairly decent sized city...you can't go without seeing 2 girls or guys holding hands (YUCK). Want me to keep blinders on him (he's almost 10 now, but he was 8 when I had to explain that). Great commet Bowstryker...it's not a race!

  • Posted By: YinYangEQ @ 01/08/2009 3:10:31 PM

    Religion is NOT the issue here. Want to get into religion?...

    <taking off gloves>

    Christians, I am going to poke at you because of you being the most intolerant people I have ever known (even the islamic Koran makes mention of the exsistence of Jesus and the Bible, though I am not Muslim). It is not God who is intolerant of homosexuality...YOU are. Remember a few key things... 1. Man, not God, wrote the Bible. 2. The Bible is a translation of hebrew text (still...written by man AND translated by man). And 3. Man is not perfect. Now when you combine these facts together, what do you get? An imperfectly written and translated book that man (again...man being imperfect and, therefore, not to be completely trusted) SAYS is the word of God. Completely trustworthy? Not in my opinion. My great-great-great grandfather could have written a book and called it "Bible" for all any of you know. Hell, People Magazine could be the Bible. It was written by man, after all. "Oooo, EQ! You're going to hell!" is what many of you will be saying. Perhaps. But it won't be man with the power to do so. Only God can cast that judgement upon me. But with whatever He decides my fate should be, it is still NOT YOUR RIGHT, IN HIS EYES, FOR YOU TO SPEAK FOR HIM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE! No matter how much you think you know Him, you do not... not any more than the next person... not any more than I do. God did not put me on this earth to prosecute and condemn. I believe he put me here in order to give me the opportunity to make it into Heaven. Whether or not I am doing the right things to get in is up to me and will be based on my actions. But no one will make me believe that He would have me live my life intolerant of other people whatever their status may be. Do not forget that if things were not going the way He had planned all along, would He be God?

    • Posted By: Chuck_G @ 01/08/2009 3:17:07 PM

      Amen.

      Let's see what the nutballs have to say now.

      • Posted By: YinYangEQ @ 01/08/2009 4:27:28 PM

        Religion, be it Christianity, Islam, Buhdism, etc., are man-made entities with which man imposes man's belief system. Nowhere, even in the Bible, does it say that you will follow a particular religion. It simply states that man shall not worship man or animal or any entity other than God. No... I don't go to church (yet another creation of man, for the Bible does not state that you must. It DOES state, however, to worship Him wherever you are). But I do believe in God and most of the teachings of the Bible. Chief among these are to treat others as I would have myself treated. Again....ONLY God can judge our actions. It is not on YOU to do so.

      • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/08/2009 3:22:06 PM

        They'll just spout more crap about how Baby Jesus told them to come here and pester us with their religious beliefs.

        Do you have to put up with this everywhere in America, or just on the internet?

        • Posted By: bdick @ 01/08/2009 4:07:45 PM

          o boy, you really took off the gloves there Yin..

        • Posted By: Chuck_G @ 01/08/2009 3:34:41 PM

          Both, sadly.

    • Posted By: larapture @ 01/08/2009 4:08:15 PM

      First off let me reply to your statements without hatred or malice. It is clear to me that you are not a follower of Jesus Christ nor have you done much study in the Word (The Bible). First, God uses man as an instrument to do his will i.e. scripture is God-Breathed (Spirit-Lead). The Scripture is God's Biblical Instruction (to mankind) Before Leaving Earth (B.I.B.L.E,). God has shown his love to mankind by coming in the humanity of Jesus Christ and made Himself a sacrifice for our sins. Christianity is not a religion (per se), it's a relationship with God Almighty. No other religion or attitude can replace it. Christians might quote a verse of scripture, but there are plenty to back up that particular thought to make a point clear, Old Testament of New Testament it's all the Word of God but one has to learn to divide the Word correctly. If you read the NT you will find that there are no unclean animals we can't eat, that was for a different era (BC), God has given us commands & laws as Christians we must follow and as believers Jesus Christ commands all believers "Go into the World and Preach "The Gospel". The God of The Bible has called homosexuality a sin, a detestable thing, and an abomination and there are many passages that echo that. I'm not judging homosexuals, God's already done that. If Christians were tollerable of sin, then we wouldn't be Christians. Read your Bibles people and the Truth will set you free.

  • Posted By: wlfawcett @ 01/08/2009 4:25:10 PM

    There have been gays in the military since time began. One's sexuality has nothing to do with a person's ability to fight for their country, nor their loyalty. I served my country for 0ver 22 years in the USAF and I knew several men and woman who were gay, but didn't advertise their sexuality. One fellow came out of the closet only because he became tired of the military and wanted out, and Uncle Sam in his idiocy obliged him. Being gay is something a person is born with, it is not a learned behavior, nor is it chosen. I have a very good friend who wishes he was straight, but he can't change the way he is. It's something the religious zealots are going to have to learnt to understand.

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