On Second Thought ...

Scientists are supposed to change their minds when evidence undercuts their views. Dream on.

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  • Posted By: colinml @ 01/09/2009 5:14:14 PM

    Sharon Begley (On Science, Jan. 12, 09) laments how scientists have difficulty changing their minds. While I agree that being open to changing one???s mind is a nice ideal, I also think Begley???s angst is a little overwrought and probably misplaced. If individual scientists were expected to be the sole arbiters of the truth of their own ideas, then there would be reason for concern. But they aren???t, so there isn???t.

  • Posted By: M Deigan @ 01/07/2009 11:56:25 PM

    I apologize in advance for the quotation marks appearing as question marks...

  • Posted By: M Deigan @ 01/07/2009 11:55:17 PM

    I thoroughly enjoyed two of the previous books put out by Brockman and the Edge.org contributors (???What Do You Believe But Cannot Prove???? and ???What is Your Dangerous Idea????), and, after recently learning of the most recent book, "What Have You Changed Your Mind About?," I have been quite excited to buy the book at my first opportunity. So, understandably, I was quite surprised to read Sharon Begley's "On Science" article, "On Second Thought..." in which she claims, "few scientists answer the question in the title," in a way that expresses the ideal of changing one's mind based on empirical evidence. Begley states that many contributions simply tell of changes of "opinion" or an "evolution of values." She complains that only rarely did a contributor write of a change of mind in a controversial issue.
    I was beginning to change my mind about buying the book. But I thought perhaps a little independent research would be necessary, surely Begley would agree that one must reserve a change in mind for a situation that has strong evidence from multiple sources. And what better source than the actual text, which I found is posted in its entirety on the Edge website (beginning at http://www.edge.org/q2008/q08_1.html) After reading through many of the contributions, I realized I need not worry, as the contributors and their writing were just as enthralling as they were in the previous publications. However, I felt it unfair that the book should go undefended of an article making such claims.

    So, in order to clear things up for other readers, I will point out a few things.

    1. This is the question in its entirety:
    ???The Edge Annual Question ??? 2008
    When thinking changes your mind, that's philosophy.
    When God changes your mind, that's faith.
    When facts change your mind, that's science.
    WHAT HAVE YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND ABOUT? WHY?
    Science is based on evidence. What happens when the data change? How have scientific findings or arguments changed your mind?"
    It has 165 contributors, and 112,600 words.

    2. Almost all of the contributions (at least that I read) answered the question in a way that expresses the ideal of changing one???s mind based on the presence (or absence) of data. On the first page that I linked, which is one of 17, has, among others, a contributor who has taken the null hypothesis of there being no intelligent extraterrestrial civilizations, as opposed to firmly believing that the probability (nearly) proves that there are many, based on the absence of evidence, a neuroscientist who???s ideas about memory were fundamentally changed based on a colleague???s experiment, a historian who???s view of the Roman Empire changed when examining ???more personal??? historical records, and a former behaviorist who states, the ???data from evolutionary psychology has now convinced me that we evolved a dual set of moral sentiments: within groups we tend to be pro-social and cooperative

  • Posted By: M Deigan @ 01/07/2009 11:54:29 PM

    3. Begley states that there are ???few essays in which scientists do admit they were wrong,??? about something crucial to their reputation, but I think what she meant is there are few scientists who admit they were wrong on an issue she finds particularly important (or maybe that she has written an article on before??? Alzheimer???s not being caused by sticky brain plaque (WSJ April, 2004)(Newsweek Lab Notes July 25, 2008)? Hormone-replacement therapy (Newsweek Jun 30, 1997)? Asteroid not killing dinosaurs (Newsweek Lab Notes Oct 30, 2004)?).
    Anyways, I found plenty that told of an overturned opinions of ???contentious issues??? ???central to their reputation.??? Susan Blackmore went from a PhD testing for ESP and other paranormal phenomena to a skeptic, throwing away her reputation in parapsychology. This a paragraph from Richard Dawkin???s contribution, ???I have changed my mind, as it happens, about a highly paradoxical theory of prestige, in my own field of evolutionary biology. That theory is the Handicap Principle suggested by the Israeli zoologist Amotz Zahavi. I thought it was nonsense and said so in my first book, The Selfish Gene. In the Second Edition I changed my mind, as the result of some brilliant theoretical modelling by my Oxford colleague Alan Grafen.??? (As a side note, his opening statements about ???flip-flopping??? and politicians and ladies and scientists intriguingly resembles Begley???s opening few sentences) Jordan Pollack is a computer scientist now denouncing email. Roger Highfield is the Science Editor for the Daily Telegraph, and he admits that science is often treated by scientists as a religion. Kai Krause, a ???Software and Design Pioneer,??? claims software writing is merely a performance art. Randolph M. Nesse, a psychiatrist at the University of Michigan, now believes that ???truth does not reside with smart university experts.??? And Nassim Taleb, an ???Epistemologist of Randomness and Applied Statistician,??? has realized the ???irrelevance of probability.???

    I still plan on buying the book. And as for Begley, perhaps she should stick to ???dispassionate evaluation of empirical evidence,??? and overlook that the scientists that she was personally involved with proving wrong were not contributors, or at least contribute something along the lines of , ???I ???abandoned my cherished belief??? because Sharon Begley found ???evidence that undercut it.??????

    And, on an ???up note,??? she can still change her mind.

  • Posted By: Smite me @ 01/06/2009 7:53:54 PM

    I am a scientist and the theme of this piece is dead on. Here's the stark reality for those not in the field of science:
    Science isn't about having the right or wrong hypothesis/model/idea etc. It is about convincing others that you are right. Convincing others allows you to publish your work, get grants to do future work... essentially convincing others is what allows you to continue to do science. Failure to convince others that you are right, wether you are actually right or wrong results in the end of your career. That's science in a nutshell, plain and simple.

  • Posted By: sieg6529 @ 01/06/2009 5:20:43 PM

    As a scientist myself, I would say that the author's central thesis lacks enough references for support.

  • Posted By: Cazador1972 @ 01/05/2009 9:27:17 PM


    While science, much like traditional religion, has strong ethics about honesty that are not always adhered by. Human beings have mortgage payments and reputations that sometimes blind them. When my geology professor was a student in college there were still geologists around who didn't believe in plate tectonics theory. Behe, in spite of science pointing differently, still believes in intelligent design and there are scores of others who'd rather be obtuse than wrong. The blessing is that no matter how fashionable a thesis is or how wide its ivory tower support, science itself has the last word.

    Thank you for mentioning Marcelo Gleiser, it does not surprise me in the least that he'd have the guts to admit when he's wrong. He's an awesome author.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/06/2009 12:24:29 PM

      Sentiment and science mix much like grease and water. But then, many a bowl of chili at many a diner proves that some people like to try.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 8:55:26 PM

    I sure have enjoyed this site. My chickens are hopping up onto the roost and I need to go to bed. Thanks for this opportunity to learn from this top notch article. Good night all.

  • Posted By: indygirl800 @ 01/05/2009 8:36:54 PM

    Yes, interesting indeed - the last note that is. So unhappiness can actually bring you happiness if you have no way out of that very thing that bring you unhappiness. So the western world, next time you see a documentary of a women in burkha in Saudi telling you women in Saudi are actually happier than their counterparts in the US - we better believe them!

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 8:46:49 PM

      Help me a little there, indygirl800. I'm not sure that I fully caught that point, though I believe it to be a good one.

      • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 8:52:18 PM

        But I will say this with respect to happiness. We are all capable of it under any circumstances in which we find ourselves. It is an art easy to develop and enjoy for a lifetime. I just can't get over Nelson Mandela being in prison for thirty years and coming out of there with a smile on his face, and then promptly dispensing with apartheid in South Africa after becoming president of the whole deal. What do you think about that, indygirl800. We can all enjoy such an artful existence. Plenty of cells to spare.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 8:10:57 PM

    We just keep adding cells to our body package and get better at a lot of things. The ability to change our minds is sort of parallel to the process of adjusting to rapidly changing circumstances. As our societies developed and we sailed through the sea of change, we realized that we needed some rudders to stabilize our course. The vow has to be one of the best examples of such a rudder. With marriage being seen as necessary to raise children who needed ever increasing time with parentage in order to be able to function in increasingly longer lives under more complex circumstances, something had to dampen the urge to breed with all the pretty things that one saw from time to time, both sexes. The resulting shattered families caused problems which led to the marriage vow. A promise to stay with one mate only until one of them died became the marriage vow and it worked for a long time and tended to steady the course of family life. Now, if the loss of this rudder becomes too big a problem for all of us, we will certainly find some other rudder to correct the course. Who knows what it will be? This valuable information is offered free of charge.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 8:16:46 PM

      I wanted to make sure that old ernest67 knew that I didn't get paid for that idea so he wouldn't hop me with a sin tax for bad grammar.

      • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 8:26:30 PM

        You know, when you get to thinking about it, the vow is no good without the auxiliary discipline of guilt. A promise so strong as to use death as a duration needs some help and nothing would be better than guilt to get some support in a tough situation, like, oh, temptation for example to break the oath in some way. Maybe that. Maybe not. I just can't make up my mind on this.

        • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 8:36:00 PM

          But, you know, guilt is harder to find than it used to be. There is some sort of a change taking place here that we have yet to see. That's really both macro and micro. There are some mighty big guilt gaps in powerful hands besides the every day garden variety that you and I use so well to keep things in order. Small doses, of course. It's only over indulgence in guilt that becomes a problem. It must be understood to be used properly. You already knew that, though.

          • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 8:42:37 PM

            There really are no problems. With all the cells we have to use, it's a breeze to just float on the vast sea of happiness and have cells to spare for come what may. We're making more every day, putting the paramecium and the amoebae to a disgraceful shame for their indolence, condemned to swim in dirty water and just divide over and over again for eternity. You can put that in the bank. No charge, of course.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 8:29:03 PM

    I sure wish more people would comment on this article. It is a tremendous opportunity to learn something. Free of charge.

  • Posted By: ernest67 @ 01/05/2009 7:49:21 PM

    Grammar and syntax make this article nearly unreadable. People get paid to write like this? Does Newsweek hire editors??

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 8:13:04 PM

      Ernest67, I sure missed that. Where are those deals in the article that you are talking about?

  • Posted By: RayG01 @ 01/03/2009 11:38:55 PM

    Nice article.

    No big news to those of us with a scientific education, but just try to explain this to the average believer of the global warming panic.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 3:11:25 PM

      You need us average people, RayG01. Many a smart scientist would lose plenty of prestige if every body was above average. We're sort of proud of helping you in this humble way, so go easy on us, though I will admit that I am not panicked about whether the globe is warming or not. I have, though, kept a great big piece of styrofoam back in the corner of the garage just in case they are right.

      • Posted By: perrin @ 01/05/2009 6:18:28 PM

        older wiser, you are too cool. How eloquent your words. I too have gotten used to being spoon fed. It anit so bad when don't know any better. I just invested in some typewriter company stock Wadda ya think? good idea eh?

        • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 7:33:30 PM

          Buy Gutenburg. Sell scribes.

  • Posted By: perrin @ 01/05/2009 6:57:37 PM

    Sorry Sharon, I was getting bored. No reflection on your article. I always enjoy them.

  • Posted By: perrin @ 01/05/2009 6:53:36 PM

    ""This field holds that we all carry genes that led to reproductive success in the Stone Age, and that as a result men are genetically driven to be promiscuous and women ""

    Well, no S**t sherlock

  • Posted By: perrin @ 01/05/2009 6:50:27 PM

    ""And Steven Pinker, one of evo-psych's most prominent popularizers, now admits that many human genes are changing more quickly than anyone imagined.""

    Isnt that part of the mating and reproducing thing too? I always take mine off first. Well, usually anyway

  • Posted By: perrin @ 01/05/2009 6:41:13 PM

    and that mating and reprodcing stuff, well, I really like that too.

  • Posted By: perrin @ 01/05/2009 6:39:14 PM

    us folk don't mind the spoon fed part, just cook it a little before you serve it, we'll even try your other recipes ya'll

  • Posted By: christopherkidwell1 @ 01/05/2009 3:18:43 PM

    Yes, scientists are supposed to change their minds when the evidence shows that they are wrong.... but a lot of times, they cannot because the preconceptions of the American people keep them from doing so. A lot of psychologists want to declare pedosexuality a normal sexuality..... but everytime they bring it up, they are shouted down by the anti-pedosexual lobbies and have to backtrack.
    That happens in a lot of other arenas as well outside of psychology. Many scientists today don't believe in man-made global warming anymore... but everytime they try to say "Hey, this isn't caused by man!", they are shouted down by other people who think (wrongly and without evidence and with TAINTED evidence) that it is caused by man.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 3:41:13 PM

      Where is this place where psychologists shout at each other to establish what is normal conduct? I visited a place like that on one occasion, but they wouldn't unlock the door so that the people could walk out amongst the public.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 3:04:26 PM

    Heck yes, scientists change their minds when they find out that they are wrong. One of the earliest of those to do this was Copernicus. He fiddled with his telescope and thought that the earth revolved around the sun. When he realized that he was dead wrong, he turned turtle and said, heck no, the sun revolves around the earth. Sometimes science mixes with bread and butter and other groceries, along with one's personal safety, and the mind follows. They're just ordinary folks like you and me.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 01/05/2009 3:16:38 PM

      You know, though, I am going to have to except Albert Einstein from this. He really was not ordinary folk like us. I think that he cheated, though. He found some secret way to get in touch with the guy who made the universe and stuff and got the inside skinny on how things work out there, copied the formulae and passed it off as his own. Nobody could come up with all that stuff on his own.

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