The Case for Walking Away

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  • Posted By: bucky99 @ 01/04/2009 9:54:44 PM

    uncrudy, don't kid yourself. The profile you depict is not your typical bankrupt debtor. I am a lawyer that has personally filed several hundred petitions in BR court. I stopped in Oct. 2005. The typical debtor, in my experience, incurred the majority of his/her debt with irresponsible credit card activity and automobile purchases. There were, of course, the debtors who incurred vast amounts of medical debt, but they were few and far between. I sympathize with those that suffer medical trauma and lack the ability to pay after insurance is exhausted, but personal responsibility requires insuring against foreseeable risks. BTW, I am far from being a Republican.

    • Posted By: allseeingeyeball @ 01/04/2009 10:15:55 PM

      Back in 2005 what was health insurance cost per month? What about losing a job? The Wall Street Gangsters used their assumptions and made decisions. These decisions proved ruinious, yet they get a pass. I have asked this question here in SE Michigan, did anyone expect ALL Big Three Automakers to go insolvent. Invartiably the answer is no, and there was no way to predict it either. It has effected everyone. Dry cleaaners, grocers and just about evey other bsuiness is closing in a deflationary spiral. So how is assuming you will continue to have income irresponsible. I guess it is just a double standard, and "little people" should accept their role and place in the scheme of things.

      I suggest that you get back into the BK fight, good hardworking people need you now. You can turn down the deadbeats, but help the good people swept away by this economic tidal wave.

  • Posted By: re-industrialize the united states @ 01/04/2009 10:12:57 PM

    hey guys. there is only one answer to fix this problem with our economy and everyone needs to start talking about it... we need to reindustrialize the US and open the flood gates holding back the production of natural gas and coal. now is not the time to worry about what the rest of the world is doing. we can see that they are joining together against us.

  • Posted By: ort123 @ 01/04/2009 5:56:24 PM

    Wow...

    • Posted By: freedomfirst @ 01/04/2009 10:12:27 PM

      thats 5 trillion dollars assuming 100 million families.Everyone with any understanding of economics knows that supply creats demand,this is why it is better to give corporations tax breaks to creat jobs making things (creating supply) while those working these new jobs earn money to purchase new supply. If individuals percieve the income as temporary, history shows us that they will not increase spending ,wheras permanant income from employment immediatly increases spending. Tell Obama and chris dodd and barney frank ect.to cut the corporate and capitol gains tax rate (one of the highest corporate taxe rates in the world) as well as personal taxes and if history is our guide ,problem solved. Big three file chapter 11 get costs down tell gov. to stick there maternal brow beating about corporate jets where the sun don't shine .Seems like a no brainer ,wonder what their not telling us?Otherwise ,pay your bills ,don't borrow what you can't pay . You make choices concerning your debt, not the gov. read and carfully make decisions.

  • Posted By: reality check161 @ 01/04/2009 10:09:26 PM

    carde98...God bless you!

  • Posted By: cardee98 @ 01/04/2009 10:05:01 PM

    This article makes me angry - after all the wasteful spending by people living above their means, now they can choose the easy way out by bankrupcy? And why does it seem that everyone blames it on "medical expenses" or "losing their job"? I'm starting to doubt that that many people are blameless for going into absorbant debt. Yes, I know, there are some that had such circumstances - but medical bills are the only instance I can see where it isn't someone's fault (although you can blame them for not having insurance). It's very simple - don't spend more than you have. If you lose your job, you obviously need to spend less. I'm kind of sick of the mentality that some people have, that they can charge all they want and spend as much as they want, and then declare bankrupcy to wipe it all clean so they can start over. I wish this author had written more about what to do to help yourself, rather than just telling people to choose bankrupcy.

  • Posted By: jenijohn @ 01/04/2009 9:53:17 PM

    why does this discussion always have to turn into liberal or conservative...we are ALL BROKE. And if you say that you are not,..you are a liar. Credit Card companies have made darn sure that Bancruptcies are NOT a first resort--thanks to the last 8 years administration-thank you. But look who gets bailed out...Not the poor single mom who works 2 jobs...it these giant super companies that put so much money in their pockets that of course they don't have enough to make ends meet. And why is that okay? So the American Dream is life, liberty, freedom to pursue our dreams...but how is that possible when you have forces pushing against you. Sure, you might have been getting along just fine...then comes summer and gas shoots up to nearly 5 dollars a gallon, or at least it did where I live. Did the gas companies lose money. NO of course not, in fact they made RECORD profits. We all swim up hill except for a small 1% in this country and I think it is bull crap. Wake up and realize this is not about party lines, it is about dishonesty and the tolerance of it. And it just so happens that the biggest crock has been told under this last adminstration. What is the solution? I don't know. What I do know is what I see when I open my check book. NOTHING.

    • Posted By: allseeingeyeball @ 01/04/2009 10:01:31 PM

      You read this the way I do. I am a Republican Precinct Delegate, but I can't go along with this intellectual dishonety BY BOTH PARTIES. I am going to try to help my neighbors irrespective of political party. We are in Michigan and things are very bad here. The devil has the people by the throat. All we can do is help one another and use this internet to talk about what to do next.

  • Posted By: ladym1966 @ 01/04/2009 9:55:49 PM

    Amen 7thinline......If you are in a bad situation, talk with a lawyer. Like I said most will speak to you for free the first time. There is no shame in filing. You do what you have to do to keep yourself and your family off the streets. That is your number one priority. For those on here telling everyone to "suck it up", wait until your neighborhood is full of foreclosures and boarded up houses(if it is not already). Watch your house values go down. As people become more and more unemployed there are less taxes to pay for your cities services. While you live in your white picket fence house, make sure you close your drapes to the people suffering in your neighborhood. Call the banks and the mortgage companies they will tell you how to do it. I live by the rule of do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You are naive to think this will never happen to you. I pray it never does, but the odds are against you.

  • Posted By: Vegas777 @ 01/04/2009 9:50:16 PM

    I agree with many of the previous comments: this post should not have been made. Encouraging America to submit to bankruptcy is a terrible notion in the efforts to fix the economy. However I do believe with many of the points in that bankruptcy should be chosen as a shameless option when all else has failed.
    <br><br>
    The blame for the current situation weighs in the hands of many and not just the end consumer. Being given the ability to own a house on a $10 an hour wage is utter rediculous. But how can a young family, who has just started and is trying to become something in this aggressive world, say no to a new house when the realtor reassures them they can easily afford it. They are told by supposed professionals that all they have to do is get a raise within the next two years before their ARM hits to keep affording that nice home.
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    Yes, those people were ignorant for buying the home on such terms. But what if there were no speed limits on the roads? Do you think everyone would go 65, or even 80, on the freeway? People try to get what they can how they can because that is what American media leads them to believe they need to do. Laws are made to keep most people from doing stupid things. Many in my family are in the mortgage and real estate business and I blame this mess just as much on them as I do the customers they were tending to whom bought homes they could otherwise never afford.
    <br><br>
    check161: Beautiful answer there bud. That's your fix-all solution eh?: health insurance. I love how obsurdly stupid your remarks are. Are you saying that not everyone in America, no matter how hard they are 'trying,' can have a child? Just go get a job that has health insurance? Did it occur that they are simply not enough jobs that have health insurance to cover those with children? You said you own your business. So do many other very respectable people who's businesses have failed because there is simply no clientele to support them in this economy. If your business failed, how easily will you find a job with decent pay and insurance? There was a story here locally a few days ago pointing out that half the applicants for a new In-N-Out were previous business owners, executives, or union workers. Are those people stupid too? They probably have kids. Maybe one will find out their child has diabetes and will have to fork out 600 a month in insulin and needles so their kid can lead a halfway normal life. But hell they shouldn't have had that stupid kid because they should have known in the future their business would suddenly fall.
    <br><br>
    Maybe yours will so you can have a dose of what others are going through. Many stupid decisions were made for us to get down this far, but it doesn't mean everyone that is having trouble is stupid. And it doesn't make every bankruptcy a selfish one.
    <br><br>
    Jackass

  • Posted By: reality check161 @ 01/04/2009 9:47:20 PM

    seti....no i am not suggesting that you send your children back or that you should choose homosexuality...But children and credit are alot alike....Just because you found someone togive it/them to you does not mean that you are deserving...I am 47 and have one child because that is the number I can comfortably support. I have not reproduced again but I did not have to become homosexual or celebit....If you dont know what causes them and the ways around that then PLEASE!!!!!!!! even if you can afford them, PLEASE!!!!!! dont

  • Posted By: 7thinline @ 01/04/2009 9:45:19 PM

    shakin34 - don't let the ignorance of posters like "reality check 161" deter you. You need to meet with a qualified attorney, many will give you a free consultation. You can make a fresh start, which is what bankruptcy is for people in your situation. You will have to go through credit counseling (and it's not a six month course, bucky99) but it can only help you for the future. The new laws that were passed a few years ago were designed to help legitimate people, it's the difference between chapter 7 and 13.

    and reality check161 - I would like to congratulate you on working, you must be the only person that does by the sound of your posts. Maybe you're too busy working to buy groceries, or gas for a car, because if you did, you'd know how insanely expensive everything has gotten.

    Us regular people, who clearly don't work as hard or as much as you, are having a hard time making ends meet.

  • Posted By: ladym1966 @ 01/04/2009 9:44:55 PM

    While I understand the comments before me, I also understand what she is stating. I have worked hard all my life. My mother became ill approximately 20 years ago. She had a transplant and other surgeries over the years. I spent a decade robbing Peter to pay Paul. She was unable to work and at the time I was unable to keep a job to the high demands of her illness. I had a 75,000 debt at the age of 30. I worked with one of those companies that help you make payments and stayed on it for 7 years. The debt went down to 35,000. I could not make the payments any longer. The credit card companies would accept the deal and then be bought by another and not accept the deal and raise my rates over 25%. I did everything I was supposed to do. We did not own a home. The only thing I had was the insurance we took out for my mother in order to bury her when the time came. I filed for bankruptcy on Christmas Eve in 2005. It was the worst day of my life. Now I am out of work again due to my mothers illness. FMLA only covers so much time and I had to take a leave from my job. I am not in debt. I have paid everything on time. I have 2 credit cards now. I pay them off each month. I did not use one for 6 months and they sent me a letter that I have been removed for inactivity. ???? The credit cards I have and my mother have have raised their rates contrary to our zero balances and ontime payments. It seems you are punished by these creditors. My opinion today is don't spend your 401K on your house payments. Go in now and talk to a lawyer that can help with these proceedings. It may save the one thing you have your home. There is no shame in it. I won't tell you it is not degrading, but you will get through it. For people working in this economy, I suggest going to a lawyer and having them negotiate with your creditors if you are having a problem with your payments. Bankruptcy is not always the option. For people that are about to lose everything or close to it, go see a lawyer. Most are free for the first visit. Since no one on main street got a bailout from the banks or even a renegotiation on the loans they have given to these people, it is your only way out right now. The mortgage companies and banking industries preyed on the stupidity of the American people. Granted the buyer should be informed so there is some blame there. I have to say that there are so many people that have lost their homes, jobs, retirement money it is not fair to tell them that bankruptcy is not a way out. I say make the banks, credit companies, mortgage companies, and other institutions pick up the slack. It is their greed that got us here. Nothing more. Nothing less.

  • Posted By: stevenllarson @ 01/04/2009 9:44:20 PM

    I think the same bankrupcy policy should be followed by our Country as well. We are now delibertly putting all tax payers deeper and deeper in debt to preserve banks and shareholders. Let's declare bankrupcy as a nation before we loose our soveriegnty to the World Bank/China, etc. Or have we already done that? I know, we the people , will be the last to know.

  • Posted By: Benthereman @ 01/04/2009 9:43:54 PM

    I completed the courses required and It took about 6 hours total. The cost was about $100 and I completed it online. 6 months seems like a whole different course indeed!

  • Posted By: uncruby @ 01/04/2009 9:43:03 PM

    Ms Quinn's advice is obviously geared towards the people who have no other options, who are "going broke". She's not telling people to file bankruptcy so that they can continue their expensive habits. But Quinn understands, like few who've posted on here, that many Americans are in bad situations becasue they've lost their jobs, have high medical bills, etc., and don't know what to do or where to turn. It's not the Republicans who have no sympathy either, nor is it the "republicans" fault that people are in this mess, who simply "don't want to pay for anything". Try having a brother who suffered a traumatic brain injury, who got cut off by insurance, had tens of thousands of medical bills afterwards, had several job losses in the family, etc,. Then tell me that it is my fault for being irresponsible that I've had trouble paying bills nad staying on top, because of job losses and a desire to not stand by and watch family members die? It's not Republicans who lack sympathy. It's many on here. And also, many people, like myself, can't get health insurance because of pre-existing conditions, that insurers tell me I'm simply not insurable, so assuming that anyone without insurance is irresponsible is also very offensive! This economic mess we're in is not the fault of one person or one group, it is the fault of many people and many groups, and until we realize that and start working together to get out of it and fix the problems, we won't progress.

  • Posted By: seti2008 @ 01/04/2009 9:22:18 PM

    Some of these comments are again a failure of the part of republicans to consider human frailty. God is more humane than many of you are. Gog knows that only God is perfect. Telling people that they shouldn't have had their children doesn't eliminate debt. I'm not for irresponsibility, but sometimes people have legitimate reasons for the bad shape they are in. Many republicans assume that choices are always between good and bad. Sometimes choice are between bad and worse. I owe no money that I can't repay, but I did go to money counseling years ago, only to have the counselor tell me that my problem is too little money--not irresponsibility. I'm on disability, so making more isn't even an option.

    • Posted By: imrightyourwrong1 @ 01/04/2009 9:42:44 PM

      spoken like a true liberal! We live in the most free democratic nation in the world with much opportunity. Stop telling me I have to pay for others poor choices. If I want ot give money or time to a charitable organization or help a disabled person, it should be my choice and not the government forcing me to help the people they choose. I am sure glad you said Republicans and not Conservatives.

  • Posted By: nunyabizziness @ 01/04/2009 9:37:18 PM

    bucky99 I couldn't agree more. People just want the easy way out. Times are tough lets let everyone else take care of our responsiblities. Don't want this spouse let's get divorced. Don't want a kid just get an abortion. It's sad the direction this country is going. The libs are destroying America!!

  • Posted By: uncruby @ 01/04/2009 9:36:37 PM

    Obviously people aren't paying attentnion to what she clearly starts with "normally I'd say suck it up, and repay your debt, but not if you're going broke" the writer is clearly simply expressing her opinion and informing people who are in over their heads and can't make do that they have the option of filing bankruptcy. Yes, I'm sure that some people are in a situation becasue they were irresponsible. But how about the people who couldn't keep up payments because they lost their jobs, as in my situation, or had a family member suffer a traumatic injury/illness that wiped out all of the families savings, also as in my situation. And then what happens, is when you already have this debt, and the savings have tried to pay as much as the medical bills that weren't covered by insurance as possible, and interest rates skyrocket, people have to make decisions that go far beyond simply "cutting back", because sometimes "cutting back" simply isn't enough.

  • Posted By: suniskye @ 01/04/2009 9:34:40 PM

    It has nothing to do with the needs of a child ...... a serious illness is unplanned and trust me when I say that. I have had cancer twice. I had insurance, thank God! However, I met many people who didn't ... it's devastation I cannot describe and apparently you can't begin to understand.

    I'm not accustomed to talk to walls so I'm done here now.

  • Posted By: reality check161 @ 01/04/2009 9:30:14 PM

    suniske....at the risk of reating myself...If you cannot afford to provide for the needs of a child....

    • Posted By: seti2008 @ 01/04/2009 9:34:13 PM

      ...What are you saying, Send them back? Choose homosexuality--the only foolproof birth control?

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