israel is occupying force and not based on peace with arab or palastinian, resistance ask for land, home, peaceand safe lfe, with israel nothing will continue and history for 60 years prove this.
With Gaza in flames, the prospects for a Middle East deal seem minuscule. But there is a way out, and both sides know what they must do.
israel is occupying force and not based on peace with arab or palastinian, resistance ask for land, home, peaceand safe lfe, with israel nothing will continue and history for 60 years prove this.
What land? The whole Israel?
Thats funny... on the older maps made by Europeans, the territory is called "Palestine". For example, US New& World Report has released a special edition on the Bible...in it you can find a 15th Century Italian map of the region, clearly labled "Palestina". It was called "Palestine" after World War I, when the League of Nations gave Britain the Mandate to see that its native people were afforded the right of self-determination on their own land...and was STILL called Palestine decades later when the United Nations bestowed that same trust on Britain (a trust Britain had already violated in the interim, overseeing or negligently permitting a mass immigration of European Jews into the territory, against the clear wishes of the inhabitants of that territory). "Israel" was established by the conquest of Palestine, by well-armed and organized Jewish militias, like the Hagannah and Irgun (training and organization abetted by the British, while the Arab inhabitants of Palestine were not PERMITTED such militias after the Arab revolt of the 1930s). It is "Israel" that was never on any modern map, since that kingdom was destroyed by the Assyrians, in antiquity, until the ethnic cleansing campaign of 1947-48 established the modern, allegedly secular State of Israel. This Zionist nonsense about "there never was a Palestine" is all a dodge anyway... the people whose lands were taken between 1947 and 1967 were PEOPLE. Their rights were violated. Whether they ever previously had a nation-state or not is entirely irrelevant.
Why not ot look at 200years old map? What the name was then? Still it is irrelevant, the land was given to Israel in 1948 by UN. Probably afer that htey got a little bit more, which they entitled to for their countless suffering of Aram terrorists and as results of wars started by Arabs (if you started barbaric unprovoked war and lost - you have to pay). Besides, Barac proposed to return to 1967 borders in return to peace - Palestinian dogs disagreed because they want the whole Israel. Fortunately Allah did not give them strenth and courage, these cowards are good only against defenseless civilians, so they must die, the more the better.
The UN didn't own the land to "give" it to anyone. The UN purported to hold the land in trust FOR ITS INHABITANTS. The UN partition plan was never enacted...instead, just as I say, the Zionist militias began a campaign of conquest and ethnic cleansing in late 1947. You are also wrong about who initiated the wars between Israel and its neighbors... the Arabs attacked only once (in 1973)....the Israelis were the aggressors in 1956, 1967, and in repeated smaller attacks into Syria, into Iraq, into Lebanon, in the years since.
Hamas did not become a terrorist organization after the elections. The ALWAYS WERE a terrorist organization, the elections did not change that fact. With this in mind, the Palestinians in Gaza elected a terrorist organization and it has only brought them terror in return. I believe that Hamas will never be a part of an actual peace process. They will only want to re-arm and recruit more terrorists. The PA may be corrupt and may not be a viable option for a Palestinian state, but Hamas may be the doom of any possible Palestinian state.
It is not true to believe that Hamas can be excluded from the peace process and expect success. Lest we forget, Hamas was voted freely in a free and fair elections but what followed was an ochestrated campaign of blockades, targetted killings and a declaration of Hamas as terrorist organisation. Having been excvluded from the fruits of their elections, they turned to the weapon of the weak - TERROR. Sure this achieved very little in the face of a US led coalition under Mr. Bush expect further alienation and suffering on the Palestinians; Obama must avoidn this.
For real peace, Israel must stop the settlements and occupation of Ppalestinian territory while Hamas must accept the right of Israel to exist. This need not be mutually exclusive but the Palestiniansa should have the right to elect thier rulers! The present situation where the elections are rejected out of hand cannot bring any lasting peace. The PA under Abbas is known for corruption and inefficiency yet the US and Isreal insist thaty they must prepresent the Palestiniabs. Egypt and the so-called moderate Arab governmentas are certainly not democratic by any measure of true democract.
The Obama administration should bring abourt an even keel for peace between the Palestinians and Israel, any attempt to force a representative will surely end like many other efforts before now. Iran should be dealt with as a seperate issue not be twined into the Israel Palestinian cinflict.
That is why no one can pursue diplomacy with Hamas. The West Bank and Fatah are options. I think this was Israel's gambit. They knew they needed to cripple Hamas for peace to have a chance.
President Clinton came up with a just, rational, reasonable and honorable plan for peace. It gave the arabs everything they asked for short of the destruction of Israel, and gave the israelis nothing but peace. Arafat turned it down flat and launched the first intifada. When will all the rational, reasonable people of good will finally take the Palestinian arabs at their word. The Hamas charter doesn't even mention a Palestinian state; it talks about a world wide Caliphate starting with the destruction of Israel. That is what they seek not some silly western notion of a nation.
plavanway is very flattering to Obama when he suggests it is his doing that will bring economic downfall to America. Open your eyes and realize that it is only mankinds' own action of self destruction that is controlling this result of economic ruin. Obviously, it is not mankind but the control of the evil one which is clearly stated in the scriptures and exemplified consistently even as we read these words. More accurately, we should be looking in the mirror and ask ourselves what we can do to make this world a better place to live. Please don't try blaming other people for the result of Your own mediocrity and self loathing. Use your own personal power and be someone who chooses to make a change or difference for the better. ie: pick up some garbage, take food or supplies to a shelter etc etc etc... think about it allright
Daphne Kenward suggests getting real facts from edited news reports by television stations with their own agenda which may or may not be consistent with the truth. This lady also suggests a tie with racist nazis by people who are not true aryans, fool. I have had some experience with nazis or wanna be nazis that show their hate and contempt for africans, indians, japanese, orientals etc. and there have been documented actions by the very government or people that Daphne is accusing of being racist nazis that have outlawed propoganda that is recognized as being racist or hate material. No one is all knowledgeable and completely aware of all the facts so please don't try to paint yourself as someone who has some enlightened knowledge that no one else does. Most all reports make light of the fact that Israel, legitimate country or not is making a just action to protect itself from attacks. Because, Hamas, the attacker is hiding behid innocent civilians is the only reason there is unneccessary killing. Please encourage Hamas to be honorable and fight their own battle without using women and children as sheilds
Peace-Justice should be aware that if Hamas wasn't so cowardly as to hide behind or amongst innocent women and children then there wouldn't be much concern about two grown men settling their dispute with honor. Obviously, the missile strikes into Israel were low blows and desrved immediate reprisal but for the Hamas to then hide themselves amongst the civilians is shameful and any other form of cowardice. Someone has a beef with you then it is honorable to go outside and settle the matter away from innocent bystanders. So until Hamas learns to fight like real men then they will continue to be a threat against the people they claim to represent.
WHEN WILL HAMAS SHOW SOME BALLS AND QUIT USING CIVILIANS AS THEIR SHEILD? Couldn't they go out and face their enemy like real people? Where is their sense of dignity, pride and self respect? Most importantly, WHERE IS THEIR SENSE OF DECENCY AND MORALITY? Stop being cowards by endangering the lives of innocent civilians and fight your own battle like you really have a legitimate cause.
WHY DOES HAMAS HIDE BEHIND INNOCENT CHILDREN?
obama its not realy president will be, cause acatauly he is only the face on goverment, who is will be the real goverment in america, american zionist?lf palestinian have no right on their land what kinda justice seems like holocaust like that, there is not justice, thereis massacre, for makes the zionist land is larged, to found their hell of promissed land. there is veryly primitiveness at last for zionism attck.
I strongly think the only way forward, is to punish America economically, and it would affect all associated abusers of the Palestinian people. A weaker America will not have the money to fund these crimes, around the world. Why they talk abour war on terror while supporting crimes against humanity, is a true twist of the facts. These people are RACIST NAZIS, who are ceceiving the world, and the facts are covered over.
Condi Rice, has no power she is just an arm of the crimes much like Hitler supported during the 2nd world war, the SS officers. And Collin Powell was used in the same way as Condi Rice, when he used the photograph of the Coca cola factory on TV across the world and told them it was a Chemical Plant for WMD. That made a fool of a good man.
The only advice I can offer anybody is tell them to watch Press TV to get the facts on what is really going on in the world. If anyone is lestening to the ZIONIST NEWS MEDIA I am not surprise they are confused.
Yes, Daphne, President Obama himself will punish ALL Americans finacially & socially. His Facist agenda will destroy this country. All you have to do now is sitback and wait !!! Palestinians have NO rights. The only right they have is to die. Israel has been trying to hold on to their little piece of dirt for thousands of years! If you Hamas lovers don't like Israel, then go over there & join the fight! What I see happening is this: The near-sighted Palestinians are going to blow-up Israel's Nuclear Plant and all the fallout is going to kill every idiot in the middle east - ITS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME !!!
Suppose that you achieved this purpose (even it is silly assume that bums can punish working people ECONOMICALLY) - who will send you then so-named humanitarian aid? Most of it comes from US charities (directly or indirectly through UN)? It is well known fact that Palestinians can not sustain themselves even without any war (how can they if two generations never were tought how to work?). So you better pray for USA well-being.
We are not Nazis and no thank you we do not wish to be punished economically. Another tip: Jews do not control all media. Press TV would be a good place to get your news if you like propaganda from radical Islamists and hate Israel and the Jewish people in general. You were right about General Powell though.
Anyway, It seems not Chris Gunnes (United Nations Relief and Works Agency) nor the whole international community can stop Israel's "crimes". it's an outlaw state since 1948 with no regards to hundreds of voted UN and security council resolutions asking to withdraw to 1967 borders and giving the right to those expelled from their homes to return. (that???s only what escaped the US Veto because of the embarrassment to support such acts). Here are again some few:
Palestinian Refugees have the right to return to their homes in Israel.
General Assembly Resolution 194, Dec. 11, 1948
"Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible."
Israel's occupation of Palestine is Illegal.
Security Council Resolution 242, Nov. 22, 1967
???Calls for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the war that year and "the acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."
Israel's settlements in Palestine are Illegal.
Security Council Resolution 446, March 22, 1979
"Determines that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East."
Palestinian have the right to Self-Determination.
General Assembly Resolution 3236, November 22, 1974
Affirms "the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine...to self-determination without external interference" and "to national independence and sovereignty."
Reaffirmation of a Palestinian State
Security Council Resolution 1397, March 12, 2002
Affirms "a vision of a region where two states, Israel and Palestine, live side by side within secure and recognized borders."
Here is my re-post from 2 weeks ago: Quoting Daniel Klaidman - "Abbas's more moderate Fatah government and radical Hamas leaders who encourage violence and believe Israel itself should not exist." This can only be interpreted one way: ISRAEL ITSELF SHOULD NOT EXIST. Should you really talk that way to someone who is ALOT bigger than you? Let me quote the post by 'Poggle' ="I think they are very racist in trying to form a country based on their religion and race instead of being open like us Americans to everyone. Inclusion, not exception is the way to any peace, but at least us Americans need to stop giving Israel money and support if they are going to continue in the vein they have been. As i recall over the past few weeks, it was the Israelis who refused a continued cease fire while Hamas and the Palestinians did not fire rockets until after cease fire discussions were broken up by the Israelis." In yiddish, we have a word for this Poogle; FREIER. He doesn't sound like an American, he sounds PALESTINIAN. When you speak about a palestinian as a FREIER it is actually a compliment. In Yiddish it means SUCKER and in Israel it means EASILY FOOLED RETARD ! (this is not how I feel). That is an ungodly thing to say. That's like using the F word! I was raised better than that. I think MR. Barak said it right: Elud Barak said "We do not seek war but we will not abandon our citizens to the ongoing Hamas attacks." And the Prophet Ezekiel said,"And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, before their eyes. And it shall come to pass at the same time when GOG shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY fury shall come up in MY face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify MYSELF, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.&
Nobody don't give a damn amymore what UN said. It reduced itself to Animals Peotection Agency.
Atavistic is the key word in this article.
The goal of stopping rockets seems unrealistic, at best. Will the current course kill or drive out all Hamas, terrorists?
The goal of enabling return of Fatah seems misguided and more unlikely. It seems more likely to inflame ethnic resentments and historical, atavistic, hatred, and create more.
How many Americans would not 'patriotically' side with those who provide essentially all the support and assistance Palestinians receive if roles were reversed? How many Americans now hate all Arabs because a few killed 3000 innocent Americans on 9/11?
Are the average citizens who just want to live life expected to adjudge Hamas 'more wrong' when people, many children, are killed just to kill fewer Hamas? Do most of the populace even know who the Hamas,terrorists are? Who would they tell? How would they defend themselves from those who consider loss of innocent life to be useful propaganda? What percentage of Newark NJ residents would confront a Mafia member?
Impoverished and subjugated people cannot be expected to be philosophical about how to attain peace and welfare, and decide that Fatah will now do that for them.
Many Arabs considered Americans killed in 9/11 as culpable because they voted in a government the Arabs consider objectionable and worse . We should blame the populace, women and children with the same 'logic'?
An army can be defeated in a battlefield. A rational government that cares about the populace can be forced to capitulate. Terrorists devoted to the elimination of another state and willing to die are not going to be deterred by loss of innocent life, nor would they capitulate.
Killing millions of innocent Viet Namese served no strategic purpose. It steeled the resolve of the populace. Burning the villages did not save them.
The killings that the Israelis are perpetrating are completely out of proportion to their own losses, damages and risks to which they have been subjected. Their stated goals are not like dropping atom bombs on two Japanese cities to avoid 250,000 U.S. casualties in an invasion; the Japanese leadership cared about its people and wanted that society to survive. That was fundamentally different from the circumstances in Gaza.
Hamas is in power because they give the populace essentially all the aid they receive. This is the lesson that is being ignored.
The only way I can see that the Palestinian people could stop perceiving Israel as a mortal enemy and agree to a cooperative arrangement, would be for Israel to stop killing large numbers of innocents, stop destroying the little shelter they have, provide humanitarian aid (how much are they spending on this war now?) they cannot get elsewhere, show the Palestinians that cooperation will give them more peace and prosperity than they have now, and give them reasons to believe that prosperity and better lives are possible if there is cooperation and resolution.
Americans forever will not forget who danced in the streets after 9/11, and it was not "a few".
Yes. They had the distorted view that American hegemony had injured them. When asked the question why the lives of innocent victims were justified, some gave the rationalization that those 'victims' elected the governments they had greivances against, and they therefore were equally culpable.
Part of my post above was meant to address the similarities between that faulty rationalization versus the arguments here about how the women, children and men of Gaza are not innocent victims because Hamas was elected.
I think both arguements are equally wrong.
It seems they invited you to dance - and you accepted.
My post made a point, bighappy, what was yours?
Exactly what I said, 40 years, that you are a terrorists simpatizer who pretended to be neutral, like Fattah negotiators. You repeat their exact arguments, indirectly defend every message of Demented Parrot. When I or anybody else said that all terrorists and their supporters must die - you pretend that iyou heard "all Palestinians", It is time to admit who you are - start talking about new Zionist Nazis, citing Koran and similar nonsense, be honest finally.
Reread my post about some rationalizations are similar, and I think both wrong. You post that I've bought into their dance and I'm dancing. Having relentlessly repeated your point of view, you are newly calling me names. None of them justified. I got bored with you last night and left. I'm less interested in your rants now. goodbye
Good buy, priecher man, I also don't care of your dances any more. Let's ignore each other from this point.
This article, without saying so, clearly lays the blame with Israel. It mentions the Arab refugees, but says nothing of the Jewish refugees who where kicked out of the Arab nations after 1948. Why don't you hear about them; because Israel already has resettled them into its society, therefore the blame for the Arab refugees, lies with the Arab states who haven't done anything. The issue of Jerusalem? We have seen that when Arabs are in control of other religions holy sites, they desecrate and destroy them, therefore Jerusalem must remain in Jewish hands, only they have shown that they can be fair to all sides.
This is a late reply, but you have illustrated an important part of the history of Israelis and Palestinians that most people are ignorant of, or selectively forget.
The situation in Palestine is very similar to standing next to someone throwing gasoline on a fire; or playing with a cobra. You either move away from the insanity or control the situation. Who is at fault here? The fire, the cobra, or the people who could have controlled the situation before it exploded; by stopping the mayhem of Hamas internally before Israel was forced to do so. How many lives have been lost and undocumented by international television simply because they are Jewish? This is like someone protecting themselves from murderers in their own home by retaliating against an assailant and then being blamed because they defended themselves instead of standing defenseless to be shot and killed by the intruders. Media coverage needs to improve and show every bit of the damage incited by the Hamas terrorists, instead of painting a one-sided picture against Israel.
In order to improve media coverage Israel bombed UN media center. Well done.
They shell whatever they get fire from. They follow rules of engagement very similar to USA.
That one is swell. Since, say ten, of my fellow citizens are killed, I should kill 1000...
How many Israelis have died because of these 3000, perhaps more, rockets?
How many Palestinians?
How do their respective property damages compare?
Where did you here that victims have obligations to risk their lives for murderers families? You fired without provocation one shell from across the border and killed my child - I have rights to fire 1000 in response to the point of origine, and the hell with your family.
Framing this or the zillion prior events, or the same number that may come in the future, as right or wrong, justification, cause for retribution, is nonproductive. It is symptomatic of the causes for the historical and ongoing waste of lives, and It will yeild more similar products of such thinking so long as such prevails.
Origin and identity of the so-called Israelis:
Israel is the newest of all the so-called nations on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in 1948. Why? At the end of WWll the Western Powers felt guilty listening to the sad tales of the Jews, so they decided to be magnificent and create a Israel. However, their feelings of guilt were tempered with the fact that the last thing they wanted was to have all those Jews coming to their countries. So they decided the best resolution was to give these people land they did not themselves own. The answer was the Palestinian Territories. It did not matter that the area was already populated and that less than 3% of that population were Jews. The main thing was that the indigenous people could not defend themselves from the encroachment of armed Jews. So the result was Al-Akbar, the tragic day when the Zionist started their murderous onslaught of the people the Palestinian Territories.
It has to be noted, the people who began to inhabit this area were not ???Israelis,??? they were Russian, Estonian, Latvian, Poles, etc, from all over Europe. They came there because they were offered free land. The word they put out was that any one was a Jew would become an Israeli citizen. Of course this did not apply to one of the oldest groups on Jews on earth, the Falashas of Ethiopia because they are black. Even today, after years of persecution by the Zionists government, the Falashas have been condemned to the slums of Israels. They have difficulty finding work and are often denied health care.
Amost immediately they began to steal the land of the Palestinians with their illegal ???settlements. Murder and slaughter the of the Palestinian became a way of life for these ???so-called??? Israelis. There was the massacres at Sabra and Shatila, the atrocities committed in Lebanon, and the current inhuman slaughter. Space does not permit me to recount all of the atrocities committed by these people. Suffice it to say to call them monsters would be a compliment.
"There was the massacres at Sabra and Shatila": don't you remember that it were trigger-happy Arab brothers who killed 5000 Palestinians in Sabra and Shatilla? Israelis only faultt was that they did not try hard to prevent it.
The Israelis have no sense of shame; they are savages. There is no justification for using those horrible incendiary weapons on anyone. The Israelis have killed over 849 civilians, of these, 342 were children. The results of their monstrous behaviour will be remembered for decades. The evil they are sowing will bear a fruit that will blossom into an intense loathing that will grow and perpetuate itself throughout time. If the Jews wanted to insure perpetual hatred from the civilised world, they have just guaranteed it.
Even by Hamas account, only 500 civilians were killed.As usual, you have to divide this number at least by 2 and multiply the number of dead Hamas terrorists by 3. It reduces civilians/dogs ration to at least to 1:6.
Persistent eyewitness reports and photographs tell of Hamas's leaders hiding in the basement of the Shifa Hospital of Gaza, using the civilians in this medical facility as human shields, a form of war crimes.
Also, similar reports, based on photo documentation, accuse Hamas's armed forces of producing weapons and explosives and stockpiling them in mosques, in UN managed schools and in people's homes and firing them from kindergarten yards and the yards of medical facilities, which also amount to war crimes and crimes against humanity.
And of course, Hamas's exclusive targets for many years have been population canters in Israel ??? the blue colour towns of S'derot, Ashqelon, the universities of Beer Sheba and Sapir, and the collective and cooperative farming communities and their residents, of southern Israel - also considered war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Israel has been seeking an accommodation of peaceful co-existence with its Arab neighbors, in Gaza and elsewhere. But Israel, as any other country, can not allow for its citizens to be targeted day in and day out for years by those whose declared goal is the erasing of Israel ??? a UN member state ??? off the face of the earth and with it the Jewish civilization in this national homeland of the Jewish people (read Hamas's Charter!!!).
The above, sadly and obviously, explains the loss of life by so many civilians, which is all the more reason why Hamas must be the entity addressed by people of good will worldwide.
When Hamas looses its will and motivation to fire at Israeli children in their kindergartens ??? some of which have been hit while the toddlers have been sheltered, thus survived - and most of the means with which it conducts its war machine against Israel's civilian population is eliminated; when all illicit weapons cease to make their ways into Gaza; and when Gilad Shalit is home, only then this conflict will come to an end.
On a longer term, the demand of the UN, EU, US, Russia as well as Arab states' and the Palestinian Authority presidency's of Hamas must stand, if this Islamist organization ever wishes to be part of any peace process: Cease all acts of terror and violence, adhere to previously signed agreements with Israel, and recognize Israel's right ??? a UN member state ??? to exist.
Jews, Israelis and otherwise, have never sought anything beyond an accommodation of peaceful co-existence between Arab and Jew, between Israel and its Arab neighbors.
Can Israel's neighbors and their supporters abroad rise to the occasion and seek the same goal??
Still 2 of 5 top dogs have already been killed, the others are in line. Because these cowards can not be considered true martirs - Allah will make them serve as virgins for those idiots who they sent to die.
I remember photo documents of WMD found in Iraq. Is it the same source of information?
To the one who bleives in Jehovah God
According to your logic, the allied should have left Hitler to exterminate Jews in Europe because at that time "Jehovah God" let it happen
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