A Plan of Attack For Peace

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  • Posted By: Peace-Justice @ 01/15/2009 4:40:23 PM

    It seems that you do not follow the news, didn't you see all the protest against this coward war from all religions. It seems that you are confounding between Zionism & Judaism, but thanks god there are still some sane people who make distinction & they will be the ones capable of fixing the issue by returning back their land to the Palestinians
    Today more than 100 Palestinians died, Israel has attacked, a mosques, a hospital, journalists & even UNRWA warehouse, they become crazy because they are unable to achieve their dark objectives, and it seems that God is helping the ones defending their land as they are still fighting despite the horrors committed by a coward army. You believe in a myth & even Jewish recognize that God is against what Zionists are doing in Palestine.

  • Posted By: Hello... @ 01/15/2009 3:53:37 PM

    Who cares what the anti-Semite U.N. says. Too bad their building got bombed. Israel was given the right to the land they reside in. Jehovah God ordained it. He brought His people Israel back to their homeland and will now fight for them and protect them. The Arabs/Muslims/liberals of the world are on the losing side of history.

  • Posted By: JusticeOnEarth @ 01/15/2009 2:41:31 PM

    Another proof that Israel is targeting civilians:

    6th Jan 2009: Over 40 Palestinians were killed and over 50 injured following shelling of an UNRWA school in Jebalya Camp on the afternoon of Tuesday 6th January 2009. Israel maintains that it was responding to rocket fire from Palestinian militants who were hiding inside the school compound.

    Chris Gunness, UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency) Spokesperson

    8th Jan 2009: "I have been authorised to say that in private briefings with diplomats, the Israeli army has admitted that the rockets from Jabalya (two days ago) came from outside the UNRWA school compound, not from inside it. Therefore the allegations against a neutral UN human development organization were entirely baseless. This increases pressure for an independent investigation. ". Statements by Chris Gunness

  • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/14/2009 8:02:47 PM

    Can anyone inform me on the novel Exodus by Leon Uris. What is the plot? Thank you.

    • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 8:28:45 PM

      Great novel. Read long ago. As best I recall, it was about the first ship of European Jewish refugees who wanted to go the the Holy Land, then called Palestine, I think. They were afraid of Europe. Took a long time to get admitted; big political issue. They stayed and suffered in refugee camps until the U.N. established the state of Israel.

      • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/15/2009 2:28:11 PM

        Thank you, 40. I hear the story is very long. I don't have time to read it now.

  • Posted By: drock @ 01/15/2009 9:54:48 AM

    Klaidman's article made me think outside the box -- what about a 3 state solution? Gaza could be given to Abbas & Fatah and the West Bank to Hamas (or the other way around). That would concentrate Hamas, give some Palestinians a more normal life, and eliminate the need for a corridor between the two.

  • Posted By: the injured @ 01/14/2009 11:07:33 AM

    you are right Mead the called israel is not the only responsible for the palestinian grievence britain, US, france al helped to give birth to this country that's why they must now show their tough love to their spoiled child. don't bother your mind with possible solution for the middle east. israel will never live in peace she threw herself in the hell when she chose this land. she is surronded by arabs. maybe she is more powerfull as far as military is conserned but she seems to be as afish struggling to live in the ocean. we try to foret that it exist but every few years it reminds us killing a number of palestinians. we don't have weapons but we have people. each one of us is a bomb directed to isreal. how can we make peace with the killer of children, women, families at once. so don't try to clean the hand of isreal from our blood. you blame hama of throwing tese stony rockets to justify the massacres israel did and now she wants peace. shall we shake hands and kiss them? believe me i am not against the jewish or against the two states but israel has gone too far in this war and if the arab governors will try to forget we the people will not and will transfer this hate to our children. everyday i made my children watch the horrible pictures of the war and teach them to hat isreal

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 9:17:30 PM

      All Arab countries hate Paslestinians, it is the fact thet they killed for 60 uears about 1million of them - usual treatment of their 'brothers".
      Israelis did not "help" much, hardly killing 10000 (1%). Ruthless bastards.

      • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 10:14:54 PM

        What happen? Not for the first time I provide this well-known fact, and even Demented Parrot did not respond?

        • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 10:31:41 PM

          Maybe only Demented could relate; don't know that one, and your characterization is suspect. For myself, I declined to comment on 'substance', what I might have ultimately gleaned after really, really trying to get what you were trying to say with that eloquent post, when I got to the 'Ruthless Bastards' part.

          • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 10:44:59 PM

            Is not it clear what I said? Why Arabs killed 100 times more Palestinians than Israelis? Why they still are keepimg Palestinians (third generation!) in cages named "Refugee Camps"? Who really commited genocide?

            • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/15/2009 12:51:25 AM

              Why is your only interest that Palestinians are 'bad ones'?

  • Posted By: sonnyx @ 01/14/2009 9:13:11 AM

    Listen to yourselves!I am ashamed that I live in a country of such uneducated fools! This Arab-Jew-Christian conflict has been going on for thousands of years and will continue to do so.It is a classic good against evil.I'll let you decide which is which. On one side you have a group who wants to live in peace,one who allows freedom of religion,womens rights,freedom of speech and prospers greatly.On the other side,well they still ride camels,live in the middle ages in poverty,treat women like dogs,and want every one on the planet dead who opposes their false religion and refuses to live by their rules. You tell me which one serves a real God and lives in reality! am deeply concerned over the plight of the innocents being shelled in Gaza. Civilian casualties are always upsetting in any war.
    However I find it equally upsetting and difficult to justify the continued relentless violent political positions and military aggressions that Hamas inflicts on Israel. This has been going on for way too many years. I am frustrated. Please do not confuse Hamas' indiscriminant launching of munitions on unspecified non-military targets as an act to defend a country. Thess are aggressive, disruptive, offensive military attacks, pure and simple.
    First I ask this; what would your government do if 50-60 rocket/ mortor rounds a day flew in from the border of a country ruled by a hostile organization like Hamas? Let's not forget the public Hamas position; that Israel should cease to exist.
    Next I ask.... How do you weed out the Hamas fighters that do not wear uniforms and fight from positions in heavily populated civilian areas? Further no one except Israel is attempting to arrest them for their violent militant activity? Hamas has done little control let alone stop this crap.
    In my opinion Hamas has very poor leadership. They need to face the facts. They are facing an overwhelming dominant enemy who used its vastly superior army to establish a nation. Israel is not going anywhere soon and Hamas does not possess the military ability to do anything about it. Hamas' rockets are like shooting bullets at a battleship. That is why their army does not fight out in the open. Hamas can't win.
    They need to face reality. Try thinking for a change. Negotiate....Hello!!! Israel has what you say you want. They have officered most of it too you. Make a deal. You can get your own country. Why don't you try showing the world how good you are by developing a strong successful nation without the aggressive militant stuff?
    Smart leaders who are facing defeat or significant losses negotiate. Dumb bloodthirsty headstrong radicals put their own populations in harms way in order to fight to the bitter end.
    Fatah will get their piece of the pie through smart negotiation.
    Hamas???..It???s time to wake up!
    Palestinians???.don???t forget to vote for true leaders

    • Posted By: abbreviate @ 01/14/2009 9:39:12 AM

      So you think that if you have a car you are better than than person riding a donkey? Shame on you. You are stupid, low educated creature ready to kill, or at least approve killing of innocent people. Did you hear something about moral values? Probably not. Educate yourself before trying to judge.

      • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 9:28:27 PM

        Not a dunky, a camel. And not only riiding.

        • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 10:12:38 PM

          Here speaks a true man of wisdom, insight, and love thy neighbor.

          • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 10:35:40 PM

            I would never answer this way to you, but those who try to insult - they understan only such language. Don't assume I am so bad.

            • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 11:08:40 PM

              P.S. I do not mean to insult you. Some of your posts seemed insulting in terms of your anxiousness to justify substantial injuries, and extermination of a group of people. If I come across as judgmental about your views, that is because you are so judgmental of the Palestinians.

              • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/15/2009 12:07:12 AM

                Where did I suggest exterminate group of people? Group of dogs, yes, and these are not all Palestinians. But look at yourself, how with all your "humanism" you are trying to protect murderers from their victims, and in the same time "forget" to judge those (Arab countries and Iran) who indeed murdered hundred thousands of Palestinians and still are using them as lap dogs in fight with tiny Israel.
                I understand your thinkeng (if indeed you are a humanist): "How can we blame barbarians, they used to live this way, but if these are Jews with their 5000 years history - they must let exterminate themselves, otherwise they are not better than Hitler".

  • Posted By: Iconoblaster @ 01/14/2009 6:05:35 PM

    Its a mistake to pretend that "both sides" are equally responsible for the failure of diplomacy. If Israel wanted peace more than it wants the Palestinians land, it would not have STARTED the so-called "settlement activity" in the first place... this "activity" from the inception was intended to make it impossible to return of any of the lWest Bank and seized by Israel's military invasion of 1967 to the Palestinians, and of course, it has accomplished that purpose. If Israel ever came to want peace more than the land since then, it would have at LEAST stopped FURTHER settlement activity...it SHOULD dismantle the settlements entirely, and withdraw its own citizens to its own territories... but it has never done either of these things, or declared any willingness to even consider doing so.

    There has been one consistent aggressor in this conflict over land since 1947: Israel, which seized MOST of Palestine in 1947-48, and the rest in 1967, driving most of the indigenous inhabitants into refugee camps or exile (or both), based on ethnicity... what we came to call "ethnic cleansing" when it happened in the Balkans. So long as all violent resistance to this aggressor is dismissed as "terrorism", while the aggressor's own violence is falsely called "self-defense", there will be no justice in Israel/Palestine. No justice, no peace.

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 8:37:24 PM

      What do you suggest, give this land after 1967 back to the animals who for years sent rockets and gangs of terrorists from this land? And even after Israel proposed to return them the land or exchange it - they refused to get less than the whole Israel. 40 years after the lesson - and the same animals...

      • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 9:28:07 PM

        bighappy, I'm no Middle East history buff, but wasn't Gaza excluded from Israel at inception? Then the Israelis took it and other areas in response to the '67 (?) war? I can understand the desire to take territory in response to having had war waged on Israel. But it's not working so well, is it?

        • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 9:48:12 PM

          Did not they give back Gaza? By the way, Gaza was part of Egypt before 1967, but Egypt categorically refused to take it back, even cealed the border. Now they are going to build much bigger wall. Palestinian dogs are not pets, huh?

          • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 10:09:43 PM

            "Did not they give back Gaza?"

            My vague 'understanding' is that they finally tried and that bufoon who thought he could get more, Arafat, refused. There may have been other 'strings' that might have complicated the matter, but yes they did try to do that.

            Yes, Egypt has closed its border and Israel has too. The people who were given that land by UN edict are hemmed in on all sides and are suffering.

            What will Israel profit from practising apartheid?

            Will only killing all those 'dogs' satisfy you? Is that the only solution?

            I subscribe to the approach of John Lennon in the movie Yellow Submarine when reaching out to the Blue Meanies who sought their utter 'Oblueteration':

            Won't you join us?

            • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 10:31:10 PM

              Israelis have full right not to see Gazans, they do not occupy any land in Gaza, and still are not left alone.. Israelis are not happy to exterminatre even Hamas dogs, but they don't have other choice. It is not "apartheid," it is simple protection from unlawful lowlives ("lowlives" because they elected to be such by themselves, not because of some "racism").

              • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 10:53:04 PM

                To sum up, Palestinians are dogs, who also put their own kind in concentration camps. It therefore necessarily follows that we should go in there, shoot the place up, and teach those curs a lesson. That is, until we can finish the job.....

                • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 11:49:19 PM

                  Did I say it? No, you said it, but I tend to agree with you, except change "Palestinians" to "Hamas and their supporters".

    • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 9:24:25 PM

      Excellent post. Well worth reading and thinking about. Thank you.

    • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/14/2009 7:50:29 PM

      Outstanding and informative comment, thank you! I wish every American could read your post.

  • Posted By: Peace-Justice @ 01/14/2009 2:27:07 PM

    It is incredible how you are deforming the reality, the truth is that this is not a religious issue, it is the story of a people whose land has been stolen by Israel with the benediction the so called free world. Hamas members & all Palestinians have the right to fight for their land, even though you persist to call them terrorists. This right is granted by all international laws & conventions.
    The worse is that Israel did not respect the peace treaty with Hamas who respected it, they have killed several Palestinians, & also imposed an inhuman blockus on Gaza strip, and now they are killing children & women, still with the benediction of the so called free world.
    Palestinians were given two alternative to die slowly or to under a coward war.
    With your lies, you are participating to Gaza genocide & history will never forgive you, because it is written with the blood of innocents.

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 9:05:53 PM

      Did Hamas build a single shelter for their supporting civilians? No, instead they built thousands of undeground weapom warehouses. What sortr of dogs they are, not taking care of their beaches and puppies?

      • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 10:37:29 PM

        I think we should just drop the Big One on them now, and solve the problem for good.

        • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 11:05:12 PM

          As I said before, Hamas do not deserve a Big One, something simplier, rat poison for example (I am talking only about Hamas and its true supporters, to be clearer for you).

  • Posted By: hqsmail @ 01/14/2009 4:34:35 AM

    The Zionists rely on the Bible, the Torah, for their imaginary right to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian people and to subjugate them. This is a pathetic joke! The Zionists have always been heretics and rejected all the fundamental tenets of our faith, and yet they have the nerve, the arrogance, the audacity, the chutzpa, to pretend to base their behavior on our holy Torah ( by Rabbi Y D Weiss) Throw away your zionist cuvinism that make your eyes blind, STOP Israel Attrocities at Gaza NOW

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 9:39:09 PM

      Keep talking your talk.

      • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 10:22:21 PM

        When that poster refers to "our faith", maybe s/er "talk" has more validity and relevance to "your talk".

        Or have you decided you ought to be 'the decider'?

        • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 10:59:00 PM

          It is typical hateful religious chatter, which seems to be you support. Before you pretended to be "newtral".

  • Posted By: n83nbu @ 01/14/2009 5:46:06 AM

    Dropping leaflets over Gaza to warn people that they should escape and keep away from Hamas, while killing civilians anyway, is a WAR CRIME! When do we stop supporting the Israeli suppression and genocide of the Palestinian people?

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 9:37:48 PM

      Great logic. According it, they shold have encourage Gazans to stay closer to Hamas. it would be a lesser "crime".

      • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 10:18:18 PM

        Wonder how many Palestinians died not knowing whether they were close or near to a terrrorist?

        • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 10:56:14 PM

          Most of them new. Besides, those leaflets directed where to go to minimize the danger.

  • Posted By: riza @ 01/14/2009 9:12:59 AM

    Why can't all of you see that what happened in Gaza is not a war, it is in fact a genocide. And why most Americans support this uncivilized act by Israel? women and children are dying there, for god's shake!!

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 9:31:32 PM

      It happens because brave Hamas "warriors" hide in the holes and force their women and children in open. Hamas is killing them, not Israel. Becies, after 9/11 dances americans do not care of Palestinians at all.

      • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 10:16:04 PM

        Is it Hamas that is pulling the triggers on those innocents? Oh, that's right, we lost, what up to ten of our people, so what the heck, it is Hamas is who is killing the (what?) ten civilians for every Hamas killed. Yeah, that's the ticket!

        • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 10:51:34 PM

          Israelis agree on 0:0. But if willingly killed one - do not complain on 100 in return, stop your criminal activity and nobody will be harmed.

  • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/14/2009 2:38:01 PM

    Peace-Justice-Excellent!

    • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 9:37:28 PM

      Do you know where I could borrow a cup of that?

  • Posted By: bmunk @ 01/05/2009 3:00:47 PM

    Does anyone in here know the definition of irony? This article is attempting to discuss (quite poorly I might add since it seems to be based on opinions stated as fact) a resolution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that could be acceptable to both sides. Yet even in the discussion portion of the article, where I'm guessing not many people are weighting in from Israel or Palestine, no one can agree or let alone admit what the problem is. Not to mention the fact that half the people in here are calling other people stupid when it's readily apparent that most of those people are barely literate. I'd like to leave you all with a scenerio regardless of what side you're on. What do you think the U.S. response would be if a radical arm of the Canadian military lined up on our northern border and started firing rockets into U.S. cities? I know exactly what our response would be and so do all of you. And for that matter, the idiots on the UN Security council know what they're response would be if someone did that to their country. This whole thing is stupid and has been for the last 1000 years.

    • Posted By: wilywascal @ 01/14/2009 9:28:57 PM

      Forget the Canadians. bmunk, you're deliberately picking the wrong point in history to start from. Let's use Mexicans as an example, instead. Let's say they came illegally into this country, upsetting the population balance to the point where they formed the majority, or at least had achieved parity. Now, these illegal immigrants (which is what the vast majority of Jews in Palestine were) decline to interface with the indigineous population; trading, hiring, and dealing exclusively amongst themselves to create a separate society (which is what Jews in Palestine did). These illegal immigrants make plain their desire to create their own new state out of your homeland (the Zionists didn't keep their plans for Palestine secret). Given this scenario, outgunned, outfinanced, with no reliable, powerful ally to protect you, wouldn't Americans resort to the same guerilla tactics the Palestinians have adopted? Would we go quietly? You know and I know we'd be no different if put in the same situation, even if we don't want to admit it.

      Perhaps now you can see that America has stood on the wrong side of this injustice for far too long. Injustices done to the Jews did not justify creating a injustices upon another blameless people, and there is nothing that currently justifies perpetrating this same continuous injustice against the Palestinians. Ultimately, I believe that answer isn't going to be a two-state solution, but a one-state proposition, where Jews may no longer enjoy the majority. In order to work, such a nation must be a true democracy, with rights and protections for all. Although that won't quite make up for the injustices done to Palestinians, it appears the only just solution for all concerned, and the only one that has a real chance of provide lasting peace.

  • Posted By: nlkatz @ 01/14/2009 10:09:15 AM

    "What if Israel defended its citizens the way the British, the French, the Americans and the Russians did? When German rockets hit British cities during the World War II, Prime Minister Winston Churchill retaliated by bombing German cities, killing thousands of German civilians, and promised to continue until Germany's unconditional surrender.

    "The United States did the same following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. The French did much worse in Algeria and the Russians showed no concern for civilian life in Chechnya or Georgia.

    "The IDF, on the other hand, has gone to extraordinary lengths to minimize civilian casualties, despite the reality that Hamas deliberately fires its rockets from densely populated civilian areas and hides its rocket launchers in schools, hospitals and mosques".

    So writes Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz:

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1170359815127&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    • Posted By: abbreviate @ 01/14/2009 10:19:22 AM

      Only one "small" difference. British, the French, the Americans and the Russians were under the siege. Nazi Germany, as Israel now, was an aggressor.

      • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 9:26:10 PM

        British and americans were under siege?? With their fleet and territory??? Are you nuts?

  • Posted By: reysr @ 01/14/2009 12:54:08 PM

    the creation of the state of israel is the biggest political mistake of the 20th century. jews are a religion not a nation. The mistake must be reversed. Israel must be hand over to the UN so the religious sites can be used freely by all religions and the jews, arabs and cristians of the region forced to live in peace under the UN umbrella. Untill we reverse the mistake it will be a never ending war that threatens to engulf the whole world in it...

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 9:11:17 PM

      This is your real purpose - whatever Israelis do - they must die. No, then better tou die.

  • Posted By: darincoveyjc@cox.net @ 01/14/2009 9:00:33 PM

    Some like to go back in history just far enough to make Palestinians look like the victims. check this link out to see the history of the land hundreds of years ago. http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

    • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 9:10:08 PM

      Haven't gone to your link. Wasn't Masada a heroic group suicide by Jews who did that rather than be overrun by the Romans after a long seige on the Massada hilltop fortress? Is there a relationship to this problem that I am missing?

  • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/14/2009 9:00:15 PM

    wily, A most interesting and provacative post. Can't find yours, so posting here. Wily said:

    "***
    That said, I'm sure that most of us who deplore the excesses of Israel and the injustice done to Palestinians by disturbing the ethnic make-up and subsequent loss of most of their lands in what had been Palestine equally argue for democracy and human rights in Arab countries, as well. Let's start with the U.S. getting serious with Saudi Arabia and Israel--if we can't or won't influence our supposed allies, we only stand as self-serving hypocrites, and you can forget about creating meaninful change anywhere else. Even where we are able to do good, our image remains tarnished. That's a major obstacle we now have to cope with--not just with the disastrous illegal and unnecessary war in Iraq, but also our long history of being incapable of being an impartial broker in this conflict--a potentially devastating loss of credibility around the world."

    I agree with most of this and consider dealing with Saudi Arabia and Israel. Those are big loads at a difficult time domestically. If only idealistically, I start with the preference that Israel continue as the U.N. Don't know that much about the 'politics' of the creation, but I start there at least. There is change now in the approach of the next administration in the functioning and general receptivity to all points of view. That is likely to continue regarding the Middle East too. I see Obama as a pragmatist and he will have to be. I'll start with completely returning to the U.N. mandate borders notwithstanding 1967, and commit to showing all the neighbors they want to be neighbors.

    Also interested in addressing the other parts of your post that I did not paste here.

  • Posted By: JusticeOnEarth @ 01/14/2009 3:42:13 PM

    Israel accused of Gaza 'genocide'


    The president of the UN General Assembly has condemned Israel's killings of Palestinians in its Gaza offensive as "genocide".

    Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann said he had never believed that the UN Security Council would be able to stop the violence in Gaza and that Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, had practically told the UN to "mind their own business" by continuing the offensive.

    "The number of victims in Gaza is increasing by the day... The situation is untenable. It's genocide," d'Escoto said at the UN in New York.


    • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 8:57:31 PM

      Nobody respects UN, it never resolved a single problem, and I heard that terrorists states are now in majority in Human Right commission (??).

  • Posted By: Opinionated1 @ 01/14/2009 4:08:07 PM

    Trie Israel is the real terrorists. I have been stating forever that this whole conflict is over Israel taking over Palestinian land. They would not be confined to Gaza if their land had not been confiscated and turned into illegal settlements. These settlements are being set up and are in total violation of international law. Some Americans as well as groups aimed at the Israeli goal support this kind of underhandedness. As I see it, regardless to Olmert's claim of what he is trying to achieve as far as Abbas and Fatah, it's just Israel's way of tring to take over the Gaza strip and further push Palestinians to the brink..

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/14/2009 8:49:35 PM

      From when did your Arab brothers started respecting international law? They always felt free to grab each other's and especially Israel land. If you want to judge youselves by your own barbaric laws - Israelis also have right to interfere with you by this laws.
      I anticipate your respomse - something like "IIf Israel pretends to be a civilized country - they have to behave in accordance with international law, but we don't pretend (because we are barbarians) and can do whatever we wish", You will be right.

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