A Plan of Attack For Peace

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  • Posted By: windrider @ 01/05/2009 10:25:08 AM

    Whatever the Israelis arguments ;the shamefull action of the U.S.A and europe;shows how far their civilisation could be inacceptable to human history civilisation march.So genocides are the hobby of the super armies then where were we from the stone age ; Not far my friend . it has been so.

  • Posted By: Sultan Ahmed @ 01/05/2009 10:23:58 AM

    Stop it, just stop it,
    heared no such voice,
    from any quarter/

  • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/05/2009 12:26:35 AM

    "aschreibert1" says:You seem like a reasonable person. I like your responses and your willingness to admit that blame should be shared by both sides. However, what I don't understand is how people like yourself (who appears to be a rational person) could ignore the fact that Hamas is responsible for the deaths of these innocent women and children."

    The "rational person" she is referring to is the person who realizes that 'blame' and 'responsibility' are defined by perspectives that go back milienia. This perspective has perpetuated the strife.

    So, her proposition is that there are babies involved, and there ought to be a way to end that.

    Laying blame has never and could never work.

    They use them as human shields. Israel dropped leaflets and sent text messages to cellphones telling EVERYONE in Gaza what was coming. They even gave them the ability to report where rockets were being launched from by providing an anonymous tip line. Israel has made mistakes. The separation barrier was built but again that was in response to daily suicide bombings. Should the Israelis have avoided a "land grab" scenario. Yes. I agree. That's gonna piss people off. However you can't blame them for the deaths of "innocent" Palestinians when it was Hamas that fired first (and often) and did not have the human decency to not only request but DEMAND that their "loved" ones hide in a totally separate area where no fighting would take place. If this would have been done, many innocent lives would have been spared. Instead, Hamas (with the agreement of thousands of civilians) felt it was better to be killed by Israelis in order to gain international support. What does it say about a people that would stoop that low? The top Hamas leader that was killed on Saturday sent his own son out on a suicide mission several years ago! How sick is that???

    • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/05/2009 12:35:12 AM

      Oops. I presume that I neglected to delete everything past the blame part.

      • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 01/05/2009 12:47:13 AM

        kinda hard hiding someone in a 1,555,55 person concentration camp with a 2,600,000 population....

        • Posted By: aschreiber1 @ 01/05/2009 1:12:56 AM

          Look, let's just say for a minute that I throw all of my feelings towards the Palestinians and Israelis out the window. I'll be more sensitive about the hardships that the Palestinians are going through -which I never denied that they existed in the first place, I just questioned the source (i.e. Hamas). All I ask is for people to stop using the world Holocaust to describe the situation. Calling ANYTHING a Holocaust other than THE HOLOCAUST is demeaning and insensitive.

          I ask you (and everyone else that is out there -regardless of "whose side you're on") as one human being to another. Please don't just throw around the world Holocaust like a wet rag. It's not right.

          Give it your own name. Make up some horrible condition that describes a group of people sufferring under inhumane circumstances.

          Thank you.

          • Posted By: 40YearR @ 01/05/2009 10:06:38 AM

            I will if you promise to stop acting as if focusing on blame laying can do anything other than further encourage more strife.

    • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/05/2009 8:59:52 AM

      40-You know I'm the rational person aschriber1 was referring to. Thank you for this.

  • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/04/2009 8:01:40 PM

    Americana-have you retreated? Was it something I said? Now who is giving in.

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 01/04/2009 9:15:05 PM

      His Gaza bunker was hot few minutes ago. But don't worry, in the worst case scenarion (for him, of course) he is enjoying his 70 virgin camels.

      • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/05/2009 10:10:18 AM

        I think Americana roots for the other side.

  • Posted By: eumu1 @ 01/05/2009 10:05:20 AM


    Even our President and Secretary of State Rice blame the other, but this blame is necessarily to conform to the Israeli invasion; give me a break. But why do you accept the deceptive headline of the article, ???Israel Rejects Proposed Truce???? How about right one? You all heard them saying it: about the operation of the Israeli army, its intention is as Israeli Interior Minister Sheetrit said, in ???breaking the will of the Palestinians, of Hamas, to continue to fire at Israel," while Israeli military spokesman Maj. Lerner said ???a cease-fire is unnecessary because Israel is already allowing enough aid into the strip.
    The question is how is the military going to Break the will of Palestinians without invoking the same old genocide policy? The genocide implication is not my fault; it???s the inner logic, especially when combined together Maj. Lerner???s horrifying statement and Sheetrit???s. Thereof the right headline: Israel confirms the old genocide policy by rejecting proposed truce.
    So listen carefully to the following advice about the self-importance of men: the statue of their consciousness is very near the bankruptcy, encroaching the freedom of technology, which has been brought about as a narrowing process of choosing that tends to slide down to the violence on freedoms and the fixation of instincts needed by domination; and so stop babbling about "Intelligence" of Jews whatever you meant to be, because what we see here is no longer the issue of human intellect, but that of the progress of animal power, which in fact began in the 60s with the Palestinian Slingshot vs. Israeli missile, comparable to the implausible hope of the North Vietnam vs. the modern monstrosity of the US war machine.
    And so if you are serious about your own intelligence, don???t make it sound like a neurotic wary of war, who keeps trying to wake up from an unpleasant delirium: back and forth from a neurotic to a paranoiac. However, if you are so inclined, with your impeccable points of intelligence, you are able to beat a hard naivete; given all the good qualities of men such as the reasoning for the advancing power of human progress against the progress of power, as long as men decide to kill other men, men are not intelligent animals; their self-righteousness would exhaust themselves with that reasoning which, given its momentum unfettered or promoted by the privilege of self-preservation, would result in the helpless self-liquidation in a self-unconscious scheme of things.
    Here is the problem for you: how to make these men aware of that scheme: an apparent antireason used to be a thin cover-up of the fallacy of bourgeois subjectivity; in a permanent warfare, the stronger is always right, and he who said this is the essence of the self-righteousness of archaic Zionism! And yet it is a pity to think this is the ultimate ground that we still must trust in man, for whom alone intelligence is a moral category. So change the world from the bottom u

  • Posted By: Sultan Ahmed @ 01/05/2009 10:03:57 AM

    War has entered its tenth,
    but there are no chances of its end,
    world people are seeking around,
    espacially the United Nation,which looks failed ,
    in its action.

    Frech president's efforts still also fruitless,
    his arrival is significance.

    What would be happen in the coming days?
    more casualties,more deaths,
    including the phillosopher of the term''endgame''

    What should be done,in such circumstances,
    United States must moved forward,
    because as a single super power it is his duty ,
    to end the war.

  • Posted By: shadow315 @ 01/05/2009 9:45:28 AM

    Clinton didnt just run out of time he was dealing with someone who was incapable of letting go of power. Bush did the right thing in 2001 by maginializing Arafat while the rest of the world scorned him for not dealing with the "elected" leader of the Palestinians. Arafat helped give rise to Hamas thru his in effecient govenrining policies and out right theft of $100's of millions meant for the Palestinan people. The president elect has something Clinton didnt, Abbas, someone who seems willing to negotiate in good faith and modorate Arab states that fear Irans growing influence in the region. Just read some of the govenment run newspapers, they put some of the blame on Hamas, something unthinkable just a few years ago.Maybe the people of Gaza can look to the West Bank to see what is possible if you have leaders willing to talk to Israel. While certainly far from ideal the West Bank enjoys a better lifestyle and gets financial support from most of the governments that wont touch Hamas with a ten foot pole. A sloution to this problem might be one of the most elesuive since it deals with not just the Palestinians but with so many other regional players who have thier own agenda. Mr. President Elect you are going to need a lot of patience a lot of help and some good luck!!

  • Posted By: jamaal @ 01/05/2009 9:36:57 AM

    Sounds fairly easy if the Palestinians were reasonable and the Jews weren't so totally obnoxious. There is not going to be peace anytime soon an dou rbest option is to let them fight it out until they are exhausted. One or the other may control the entire area for a time. This has been going on nearly 1400 years and it will not stop soon. You (we) are fools to think it will.

  • Posted By: SEON @ 01/05/2009 9:08:52 AM

    DO YOU THINK FOR ONE MINUTE YOUARE DEALING WITH RATIONAL THINKING PEOPLE? I THINK NOT.RELIGIOUS ZEAL IS UTOPIANISM,THAT LEADS TO RADICALISM.PEACE THERE AS WE ENVISION IT IN OUR RATIONAL WAY OF THINKING IS IMPOSSIBLE.HOWEVER WE CANNOT GIVE UP TRYING.CONTAINMENT SHOULD BE OUR FIRST GOAL.LIKE CRIME DONT LET IT GET OUT OF CONTROL.

  • Posted By: vanabavi @ 01/05/2009 9:06:50 AM

    I believe that the only solution is change in policies of US. The whole world is suffering economic and other consequences of US policies. We should change our basic policy of supporting wars all over the world. We can reestablish our strategy and become the good superpower of the world again with support of nations all over this world.
    Please read the interesting discussion of Time with Avrum Burg, the scion of one of Israel's founding families (His father was the deputy speaker of the first Knesset, and Burg himself later became speaker of the legislature, and a member of Israel's cabinet) :
    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1869325,00.html

  • Posted By: vanabavi @ 01/05/2009 9:06:07 AM

    I believe that the only solution is change in policies of US. The whole world is suffering economic and other consequences of US policies. We should change our basic policy of supporting wars all over the world. We can reestablish our strategy and become the good superpower of the world again with support of nations all over this world.
    Please read the interesting discussion of Time with Avrum Burg, the scion of one of Israel's founding families (His father was the deputy speaker of the first Knesset, and Burg himself later became speaker of the legislature, and a member of Israel's cabinet) :
    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1869325,00.html

  • Posted By: Schigolch @ 01/05/2009 8:59:29 AM

    Just one problem: The power of the right wing in Israel has increased since the Clinton years. As of now, a division of Jerusalem might very well bring about a civil war in Israel.

  • Posted By: shadow315 @ 01/05/2009 8:58:56 AM

    You seem to think if Clinton had more time things would have gotten resooved, not as long as Arafat was the final word. Bush did the right thing by marginalizing Arafat while the rest of the world said he was the elected leader of the Palestinins and you must deal with him. Arafat gave rise to Hamas through his mismanagment and outright theft of $100of millions meant for the Paestinians. Obama now has what Clinton didnt, Abbas, a man who seems willing to negotiate in good faith. Let the people of Gaza look at the West Bank for what could be. This is still one of the most complex issues to solve because the final solution affects the whole of the Middle East.. Good Luck Mr. President.
    SMH
    SMH

  • Posted By: aschreiber1 @ 01/04/2009 7:04:13 PM

    @Omar: I am so tired of responding to brainwashed morons like you! Wake up! If you REALLY loved your family why would you keep them near you when firing rockets at your sworn enemy? Wouldn't you fire your rockets and build your weapons to "destroy the Zionist enemy" in places other than your home, Mosque or day care center??? The reason why there are so few casualties on the Israeli side is because they VALUE HUMAN LIFE. Regardless of whether an idiot like you wants to keep posting your ignorant comments to the contrary, Israel does care about the lives of both Israeli AND Palestinian civilians a hell of a lot more than the Palestinians care about their own! Why don't you try reading newspapers other that the "Jew Hater's Journal" and educate yourself? Reuters (along with every other major international news source) even reported that the Israeli military sent text messages, dropped leaflets and fired warning shots before it attacked any area and the fact that civilians stuck around is their own damn fault!!! It doesn't help Israel's cause to kill civilians because look at the world reaction? They know that every time another Palestinian civilian gets killed another idiot like you is going to start calling the Israeli military a bunch of Nazis! As far as Hamas is concerned a dead Palestinian civilian is just as good as a dead Israeli -if not better!

    Whether you are pro-Israel or anti-Israel, the logic I presented is just common sense! You can replace the characters involved and use Athens and Sparta or the US and Russia. It doesn't matter. If you think that Israel isn't doing everything possible to avoid civilian casualties on both sides then you're a lost cause and are too infected by extremist propaganda to even both holding a conversation with.

    • Posted By: Omaar @ 01/04/2009 7:28:20 PM

      You are the Epitome of an Idiot and Moron !!!

      Bombs have EYES that can Differeniate between Hamas Members and Civilians....Moron

      4 israeli's Killed ....

      Over 450 Palestinians Killed and Over 1,700 Palestinians Injured and Counting.

      Do the Math...Moron

      All Your Pro-Israeli Propoganda is falling On Deaf Ears.

      All of Western Europe are Finally Speaking Out and Standing Up to this barbaric Behavior.

      4 Israeli's Killed Equals Over 450 Palestinians being Killed and Over 1,700 being Injured.....

      That's Logical and Mathematical as well..Huh

      Moron !!

      Civilian Women, Children, The Elderly, Babies, Men and Women have been Killed and that's OK with You...

      Not with Me and Certainly Not with the Industrialized World.

      You are indeed a Moron and Completely Brainwashed Idiot..

      Ignorance is Bliss I Guess ...

      Continue Your Ignorance

      • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 01/04/2009 9:42:51 PM

        right again.. all the palisteins have is people. no tanks,planes troops,no 21st century weapons and no food or water as Isreal limits what they get,, but all they are is people...with no weapons,, what would any of thses people do to protect there HOME????

        • Posted By: Forty4 @ 01/04/2009 9:55:38 PM

          Maybe the Palestinians shouldn't have turned over their lives and government to a terrorist group like Hamas. These maniacal bastards have one obsession: Israel's destruction.

          They have no problem in fighting to the last drop of Palestinian blood to achieve this purpose.

          • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/05/2009 8:56:07 AM

            These innocent people are being used by Hamas.

      • Posted By: aschreiber1 @ 01/04/2009 9:02:03 PM

        Clearly Omar you are allowing your passion and beliefs to interfere with rational thought. Look I don't know you or which of your friends and/or relatives may be involved in this whole mess but just based on your reaction I can easily see that you aren't taking an objective view at the situation AT ALL.

        It is TOTALLY NOT IN ISRAEL'S BEST INTEREST TO HAVE HIGH CIVILIAN CASUALTIES ON EITHER THE ISRAELI OR PALESTINIAN SIDE. As for Hamas, it is just the opposite. The more civilian deaths on the Palestinian side, the moe sympathy they get from the rest of the world and the more Israel gets blamed for it. So it should not surprise anyone if Hamas were actually gunning down it's own people just to get the numbers higher.

        Regardless of whether or not who started this war (both now and from the begining of time) if you can't at least retract your statement regarding Israel using excessive force and being responsible for the death of Palestinian "civilians" and admit that this CURRENT situation is 100% Hamas's fault then there's really no point in continuing a conversation with you. Just like the Israelis I can't have a "partner in peace" if the other side is unwilling to be reasonable and accept certain facts.

        • Posted By: Omaar @ 01/04/2009 10:41:19 PM

          Dumb A!1

          It's Palestinians that have a HIGH Casualty Rate in this Barbaric Attack.

          5 Israeli's are Dead and Over 450 Palestinians are Dead and Over 1,700 Palestinians Injured and Counting...

          Evade the facts and Numbers all you want...

          The Math is Crystal Clear, Live with it.

          Palestine cannot Fight Israel and Israel knows it too.

          Thats called being a Bully, no Different than Bush's take over of Iraq...No Different

    • Posted By: Froggie76 @ 01/04/2009 10:18:37 PM

      Don't think that war justify anything or that because Tsahal has access to more modern equipment than the guerilla-style Hamas, means they can get a free-ticket to sainthood, by claiming "oops, i didn't do it on purpose" ....
      facts on the ground are that Israel has been trying to starve out the Palestinians in Gaza to put pressure on Hamas to accept an Israeli's Diktat (what you would called "negotiations" in american medias), while at the same time empowering the corrupt and inefficient Fatah in the west bank (aka "hte moderate" or the Israeli's puppet government), ever since Hamas WON an election, that Hamas had to throw out Fatah out of Gaza for it be recognized !!
      and now, because of this blockade and incessant struggle between israel and Hamas, israel finds itself "forced" to invade a besieged and heavily populated area to protect itself from home-made rockets ? and you would us to believe that killing or maiming 2000+ Palestinians because of the fear and property damages 10-20 israelis had is justified or fair or proportionate ?
      ... please, oh please !! you seem to be smart and sensitive enough to see it's not about proportionality or even-handedness, it's just about the right of the strong to do whatever they believe necessary to protect one's way of life (and no other ethics or morality are taken into account) ... except that in this case you have on one side a over-militarized juggernauth defending a religious Club-Med imposing their decisions by bombs and sniper on a desesperate and traumatized populations over 60 YEARS !!! it's no more bullying, it's persecution !!

      .... I mean, how can one not believe you would do ANYTHING to get out of Gaza by ANY MEANS necessary when you are THAT POWERLESS !! ... The Hamas military wing might be among the most radical of the Palestinian factions, but both their tactics or their motivations, are nothing else but the reflections of their deseperation and powerlessness.

      Now, please tell me : how can trying to take away what little the poor have is going to make them any more willing to cooperate with their rich and aggressive neighbour ? Once you have solved that equation, I'm sure we can talk at length about the Israelis sense of insecurity and how
      But the khave-nots should not have to make the sacrifices for the haves if you want to create sustainability in any peace process ....

      Best regards,

      • Posted By: aschreiber1 @ 01/05/2009 12:41:00 AM

        Your responses don't seem like the typical ones I get. You also called the Israeli military Tsahal which tells me that you know alot more than many of the other people on this board. I would actually like to have a more in depth conversation with you outside this board. How can I contact you without either one of us having to reveal our private email addresses? Any ideas?

        • Posted By: Froggie76 @ 01/05/2009 8:46:33 AM

          I don't know how, except by creating temporary email adresses ...

    • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/04/2009 7:20:54 PM

      Sorry to interfere, but I must- Omaar feels very passionate over his views and beliefs.

  • Posted By: Schigolch @ 01/05/2009 8:51:28 AM

    The Iran-Syria alliance is the weak link in Iran's position. Syria can be weaned away from Iran with suitable offers. Or, Iran can be induced by suitable offers to throw Syria under the bus.

  • Posted By: SEON @ 01/05/2009 8:46:59 AM

    IT IS RELIGIOUS ZEAL THAT MAKES PEACE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE PALESTIANS VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE.ONLY THING WE CAN DO IS LIKE WE HAVE IN THE PAST.THAT IS A POLICY OF CONTAINMENT WHICH KEEPS THINGS FROM GETTING OUT OF CONTROL.REMEMBER MR RABIN WAS ASSASSINATED BY ONE OF HIS OWN PEOPLE.BE REAL TALK IS CHEAP,IT IS THE IMPLEMENTATION OF AGREEMENTS THAT ARE EFFECTIVE.

  • Posted By: dari @ 01/04/2009 10:49:26 PM

    I have read every comment posted. LONG LIVE ISRAEL! Omaar, if you don't live in the middle east you should move there and take Pia with you. I was born in the US as a Catholic but believe the Palestinians are Islamic Extremists, they want the destruction of Israel and to force their beliefs on the rest of the world. I do not believe in giving in to them. Let them stop the rockets, agree to monitored peace, make the holy city an international city and live in PEACE.

    • Posted By: joe_mama @ 01/05/2009 12:35:19 AM

      "I was born in the US as a Catholic but believe the Palestinians are Islamic Extremists, they want the destruction of Israel and to force their beliefs on the rest of the world. I do not believe in giving in to them"

      Even the ones who don't support Hamas?

      Ouch.

      JM

      • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/05/2009 8:42:36 AM

        Good answer JM! Thank you.

    • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/04/2009 11:05:19 PM

      Dari-I don't want to live there, especially with daily bombings. First, I'm neither an Arab nor a Jew. I'm an American...an American who wants peace for both sides. Second-If giving these people what they want..the land they want back, is the only way to peace, then that is what should be considered. What value does this land have if people die over it, year after year anyway?

      • Posted By: Pia1981 @ 01/04/2009 11:13:12 PM

        PS Dari- It's unfair to label every Palestinian an Islamic Extremist or even a terrorist. These people have suffered just like the Jews have. Btw, I'm a Catholic too.

    • Posted By: fishoutofwater @ 01/04/2009 10:58:27 PM

      Well, now! Aren't we the spunky one tonight. Clear and concise...way to go!

  • Posted By: eumu1 @ 01/05/2009 8:34:17 AM



    Even our President and Secretary of State Rice blame the other, but this blame is necessarily to conform to the Israeli invasion; give me a break. But why do you accept the deceptive headline of the article, ???Israel Rejects Proposed Truce???? How about right one? All of you heard them saying it: about the operation of the Israeli army, its intention is as Israeli Interior Minister said, in ???breaking the will of the Palestinians, of Hamas, to continue to fire at Israel," while Israeli military spokesman Maj. Lerner, said a cease-fire is unnecessary because Israel is already allowing enough aid into the strip.
    The question is how are the military going to Break the will of Palestinians without invoking the same old genocide policy? The genocide implication is not my fault; it???s the inner logic, especially when combined together Maj. Lerner???s horrifying statement and Sheetrit???s one. Thereof the right headline: Israel confirms the old genocide policy by rejecting proposed truce.
    So listen carefully to the following advice about the self-importance of men: the statue of their consciousness is very near the bankruptcy, encroaching the freedom of technology which has been brought about as a narrowing process of choosing that has always slid down to the violence on freedoms and the fixation of instincts needed by domination; and so stop babbling about "Intelligence" of Jews whatever you meant to be, because what we see here is no longer the issue of human intellect, but that comparable to the progress of animal power, which in fact began in the 60s with the Palestinian Slingshot vs. Israeli missile, comparable to the implausible hope of the North Vietnam vs. the modern monstrosity of the US war machine.
    And so if you are serious about your own intelligence, don???t make it sound like a neurotic wary of war, who keeps trying to wake up from an unpleasant delirium: back and forth from a neurotic to a paranoiac. However, if you are so inclined, with your own impeccable points of intelligence, you would be able to beat it; given all the good qualities of men such as the reasoning for the advancing power of human progress against the progress of power, as long as men decide to kill other men, men are not intelligent animals; their self-righteousness would exhaust themselves with that reasoning which, given its momentum unfettered or promoted by the privilege of self-preservation, would result in the helpless self-liquidation in a self-unconscious scheme of things.
    Here is the problem for you: how to make these men aware of that scheme: an apparent antireason used to be cover-up of the fallacy of bourgeois subjectivity; in a permanent warfare, the stronger is always right, and he who said this is the essence of the self-righteousness of archaic Zionism! And yet it is a pity to think this is the ultimate ground that we still must trust in man, for whom alone intelligence is a moral category. So change the world from the bottom u

  • Posted By: hungarianpsychrn @ 01/05/2009 8:32:31 AM

    There has been fighting in the middle east for 3,000 years but it will now suddenly end. Ridiculous. Ask China what they think as they sit and watch the U.S. destroy itself over the middle east.

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