Ballots, Bullets And Suicide Bombers

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  • Posted By: Soldier & Patriot @ 01/06/2009 8:14:04 PM

    Americans are the most uninformed people in the world. We do not read anymore, except the Internet, we watch television that put out the same information and this information filtered. You can go to any third world nation and find the people to be more savvy about politics and how it affects their economic and social life than in our country.
    Why do i say that the news is filtered? Check then this information by yourselves.
    Check who owns or runs, Fox, The Wall Street Journal, NY Times, NY daily news, Washington Post, ABC, CBS, CNN, etc. If they were all Mexicans Americans advocating policies beneficial to Mexico and not US interests, I am sure most of you would be against that type of information control, and you should be!
    You want to get diverse opinions to be able to intelligently make you own mind, read foreign press and newspapers. I wonder if my comments will be censored?

    • Posted By: newtral @ 01/08/2009 2:27:08 AM

      You are correct. Americans are beimg deprived of the truth by the media to manipulate their opinion to their advantage.

  • Posted By: Elementary @ 01/06/2009 8:36:30 PM

    well said ClearThinking. we share some of the same views. honestly, as cliche as this may sound, "no pain, no gain." we should honestly drop massive bombs on gaza, tehran, damascus, and any other place and aids and abets terrorists and radical fundamentalists and really get a hold on the problem. these people are puppeteers using the innocent people living in refugee camps as shields and bait to fuel their quests of political success. if these people resort to tricking normal people into blowing themselves up amongst 50+ civilians to prove a point, f--- it!, drop a nuke, blow everyone up and then we have peace because the people who are weak enough to be manipulated will be gone and so will the the people devious enough to manipulate the innocent. in the end, we waste all this money and more human life just stringing it along and never really yielding a positive result, just prolonged war and terror. the worst thing is that these terror organizations have developed political parties to "legitimately" promote their campaign. they are the wolves dressed in sheep's clothing.

    given that most of the people involved in these organizations, aside from the top leaders, are very poorly educated, there is one simple question they need to ask themselves(cause i really dont think they are asking the right question), how do we stop the bloodshed? by blowing up 100+ people and yourself? why not blow up the guy who is telling you to blow yourself up? then you alone could possibly be saving 100's of lives alone, being a saint rather than a martyr. id rather be a saint and alive than a martyr and be... these people lack logic and for that simple fact, i believe we should bomb the heck out of everyone. in my eyes, it truly is that simple. we'll blow them up and later say sorry to whoever asks and it was done for the greater good of the world, not just the middle east and we'll be done with it. life goes on. and so does death. so why dont we all just bask in the gift that is life, regardless of how yours is being lived. be lucky that you are able to live it.

    also, to make a note on blowing all those people up, it really wouldnt be a bad idea. it wouldnt be genocide and it wouldnt create a possible extinction of the human race. we're spending billions a month trying to facilitate these idiots preaching idiocracy. why not spend $50 million worth of nuclear bombs and drop them on these uneducated war mongers holding onto the only thing they know how to do. getting nuclear bombs poured on them can be their new lesson. and while we're at it, lets drop a couple more on china to fix their population problem. they might thank us with a fruit basket instead of a nuclear casket ;-)

    p.s the china thing was a joke. they make great toys that keep my kids entertained for hours.

    • Posted By: newtral @ 01/08/2009 2:21:31 AM

      Very shallow mentality. Do you think killing all muslims will not have repurcussions? Muslims around the world is more than one billion. Pakistan is a muslim country with a nuke. Do you think they will sit down and wait for them to be killed. Its a nonesense argument. Even the most extreme jew knows that.

    • Posted By: MBrando @ 01/06/2009 9:44:56 PM

      You can wipe out your opponents. But if you do it unjustly you become eligible for being wiped out yourself.

      ~Ernest Hemingway

  • Posted By: gmacarol @ 01/06/2009 9:46:26 PM

    if the Palestinians had accepted the plans for their own homeland, there would be no problem. However, Gaza is a great example of just what the Palestinians are all about. When the Israelis left Gaza, they left a wonderful infrastructure of a baseline economy for the Palestinians to take over. Israelis even threw in millions of dollars to help the Palestinians maintain and improve those businesses. What did the Palestinians do? Destroyed the businesses and then began to lob iranian missiles over to Israel all the while renewing their constant vow to wipe Israel off the map. So it's the same ol' same ol' trade peace and prosperity for death and violence. It's all about the choices they make. It's tiime to grow up and accept Israel, work intelligently and purposefully for a homeland ALONGSIDE Israel and tell their Muslim brothers who gleefully let the Palestinians die at the tip of their islamic spear to pack sand.

    • Posted By: sanctuaryvb @ 01/06/2009 9:55:33 PM

      I really don't think you know anything about what you are commeting on. Maybe you don't realize that Israeli removed approximately 7000 Jews from Gaza, and these Jews had totally segregated towns from the 1.5 million Palestinians. There was no 'wonderful infracture. I certainly do not recall ever hearing that Israel gave the Palestinians millions of dollars, this is the very first I ever heard this claim, out of many bizzare cliams this is one of the most wild. And AFTER removing the illegal settlers, Israel kept control of all ingress and egress points, even non-shared borders. There is a reason that Gaza is often referred to as an open-air prison camp, because the people cannot leave unless given permission from the Israelis. Gaza is approximately 7 miles across by 25 miles wide, jam packed with 1.5 million people.

      • Posted By: jhawke @ 01/06/2009 10:45:05 PM

        Hey Santuary: Would you admit at all the unprovoked rockets fired into Israel from Gaza by Hamas, or are you going to ignore that little inconvenient fact too?

        • Posted By: sanctuaryvb @ 01/06/2009 11:13:55 PM

          One other point I should make here. Are you aware that there are many Arab Israelis that live in within the 25 mile zone these rockets can reach? Every Jewish Israeli community has been given bomb shelters and protections from these rockets except for the Arab Israelis. These people have been left to fend for themselves by their own Israeli government and in fact several have been killed by these rockets. Israel treats non-Jewish citizens very differently than it does it's Jewish citizens. Sadly Israeli Moslems and Christians simply do not have equal rights with their Jewish Israeli counterparts :(

          • Posted By: newtral @ 01/08/2009 2:12:34 AM

            You are right. Israeli jews cannot be equal to any type whether christian, muslims or converts whatsoever. There will always be a discrimination. Much more for the palestinians.

        • Posted By: sanctuaryvb @ 01/06/2009 10:53:25 PM

          I''ve ignored nothing. I would say that the rockets, ineffective as they generally are, must be dealt with by the Israeli government but this excessive force with 100s of Palestinians being killed is just making the problem worse. Are YOU willing to admit the underlying issue here is really the subjugation of the Palestinian people by the Israelis? Any government would have to respond to protect it's citizens. To call them unprovoked is a bit over the top, whenu have a brutal occupation for decades, and your statment leaves Israel blameless for it's own actions. You surely don't have to agree with me, but do not make assumptions about my stance, I clearly have an agenda and have no hidden it and will argue my case on facts, not innuendo or assumptions.

  • Posted By: ClearThinking @ 01/06/2009 9:55:17 PM

    "Posted By: sanctuaryvb @ 01/06/2009 9:35:38 PM

    You are not really very 'clear thinking' at all, what you a saying is might makes right and that we should ignore human suffering when there is something we can do about it. I simply cannot accept your premise."

    Actually, you have no idea how much I sympathize and want this to end quickly without more innocent victims.
    I am just saying that some people are blaming the wrong side for this. It seems to me that the IDF tried the tit for tat kinds of responses and that was not effective. What is left and how do you negotiate with a pathological liar, as is most of the radical leadership (from the president of Iran on down)?
    How many American lives would you deem "acceptable" before a strong military response?
    I do believe the timing of the attack was both political and logistical. The IDF knew Hamas was building up for increased attacks, but in reality, one suicide bomber in Tel Aviv kills more than a months of rocket attacks.

    • Posted By: sanctuaryvb @ 01/06/2009 10:11:02 PM

      If what you say is true, then please explain to me why the Palestinians should accept the occupation of the West Bank and what should be done with the 200,000 Israeli 'settlers' that have illegally moved into occupied land? How is putting the blame on Israeli illegal activity 'blaming the wrong side?' In fact I dont HAVE A SIDE, I'm not Jewish, Israeli, Palestinian, Moslem or Christian. I just want a fair and just solution for all parties involved. Israel is FIVE TIMES the size of the West Bank and Gaza combined. The Israelis control all the high points all throughout the West Bank with outposts. They have built "Jewish only' roads throughout the West Bank that the native population is not permitted to use. Bottom line is this: It is the continuing occupation of the West Bank and the continuing sealing of Gaza that is the root issue here. The Palesetinians face daily humiliation by being searc at every checkpoint. By not putting the onus on the Israelis for this we are in fact enabling, PARTICIPATING, in the brutalization of a whole population, by proxy. We give Israel billions of dollars a year and the Palestinians a pittance. We give Israel munitions, airplanes and all kinds of military equipment. Israel is a nuclear power with absolutely no oversight like is demanded of every other nation. The double-standard here is astounding. Our bias is astounding. I want a fair policy that takes into the dreams and aspirations of both parties, I want a just solution, not one that is imposed via an Israeli agenda. Israel is a foreign country, not a state of our union. I want American interests kept at the forefront of our policies, not subverted to an Israeli agenda.

      • Posted By: ClearThinking @ 01/06/2009 10:15:17 PM

        if the Palestinians weren't blowing themselves up in Jewish market places, there would be no need for checkpoints and searches. And so the argument goes on and on....;o)

        • Posted By: newtral @ 01/08/2009 2:03:23 AM

          Absolutely not. If no occupation and constant humiliation of the palestinians then there is no need for them to blow themselves.

        • Posted By: ClearThinking @ 01/06/2009 10:36:48 PM

          oh, and the reason we might be inclined to give more to Israel than the "governing" Hamas Palestinians might be that one of them is a friend and the other wantst death to all Americans. hmmmm ya think?
          I am not saying there aren't other domestic reasons, like who controls the mainstream media and much of the money in America.

          • Posted By: sanctuaryvb @ 01/06/2009 10:46:39 PM

            That is simply not true. The Palestinians are not our enemy, nor, truly, is Hamas although I'm certianly no Hamas supporter, but I do know this much. We NEVER even gave Hamas a chance to govern even though they were the democratically elected government. Even before any Hamas officials took office the Americans and Israeli's already termed them enemies and took hostile positions and acitons. Another thing people might want to consider is that Hamas, Fatah, etc, et all, take the Palestinian side, not the US nor Israeli side, as is befitting for any represesentative government. How revolting is it to think that any government elected by the Palestinians should back Bush or Israeli policies. Also, you never really commented on the many other points I made in my post, simply picked out what u felt you were comfortable dealing with.

            • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/07/2009 9:12:13 AM

              "We NEVER even gave Hamas a chance to govern even though they were the democratically elected government."

              Read Hamas' charter. Israel would have been mad to deal with them.

            • Posted By: ClearThinking @ 01/06/2009 11:06:44 PM

              ow can you expect Israel to accept Hamas when their own charter calls for the destruction of Israel and forbids any discussion of peace or arbitration?


              Article Thirteen:

              Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

              Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?

              "But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).

              There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

              "The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."

              • Posted By: sanctuaryvb @ 01/06/2009 11:16:44 PM

                All people, including the Israelis and Palestinians want the same thing: To live their lives with some modicum of freedom, to feel safe in their homes, to have a modicum of self-determination, and to raise and educate their children. That is a lot of common ground. Please don't spout propaganda at me, let's deal with the facts, there is certainly enough material here....

                • Posted By: Greg the Third @ 01/07/2009 12:45:16 AM

                  All things are subject to change or alteration or even disregard. Habeous Corpus has been suspended in the U.S. on several occasions. The constitution has and can be ignored such as FDR's 3rd and 4th terms as President. Given the right cicumstances, I think Hamas can and will moderate itself if it is in the best interests of its people. Look at how Arafat moderated over time from an extremist in the beginning. If they do no then they are indeed doomed, but I think it's unfortunate that they never got a chance to mature and the failed western backed Fatah coup and subsequent blockade provoked them as it did and escalated this crisis. I don't think history will look kindly upon the Bush administration failed policies (pushing for elections, then staging a coup when they did not go the way they wanted) there over the last few years that led up to this conflict.

  • Posted By: 580hawk @ 01/07/2009 5:05:23 PM

    The key to any peaceful muslim democracy in the middeast is to get shiites and sunnis, and any other form of islam for that matter, to cooperate. The problem between the two goes back to the dispute of who should succeed Mohammed as supreme ruler of Islam. For more info on the subject please read Vali Naser's book: Shia Revival.

  • Posted By: eyupcivelek @ 01/07/2009 4:49:41 PM

    do you really think that both Hizbullah and Hamas created/formed7supported by Iranians? or have you ever had a perspective that includes Israel and United States, even Russians have been encouraged the "terrorisim" in order to create a chaotic situation in the region? i think that you are really suppressed with only one basic and mispercepted idea, unfortunately.. martin luther king had been saying that "he had a dream"... then i also have a dream..but it is this "real" world.. at least it would be....

  • Posted By: eyupcivelek @ 01/07/2009 4:49:11 PM

    do you really think that both Hizbullah and Hamas created/formed7supported by Iranians? or have you ever had a perspective that includes Israel and United States, even Russians have been encouraged the "terrorisim" in order to create a chaotic situation in the region? i think that you are really suppressed with only one basic and mispercepted idea, unfortunately.. martin luther king had been saying that "he had a dream"... then i also have a dream..but it is this "real" world.. at least it would be....

  • Posted By: ross1972 @ 01/07/2009 4:31:03 PM

    Shiites are apostates,ask any sunni.Al qaeda and other sunni extremist groups murder them in the thousands and the Arab street could care less.

  • Posted By: MiamiMike @ 01/07/2009 3:36:05 PM

    Face the facts. Israel stole the land and the native inhabitants are understandably angry. Until Israel compensates them for the stolen land and gives them the territory they need to have a viable state there will be no peace.

    • Posted By: FATJOEY @ 01/07/2009 4:01:32 PM

      MIAMI MIKE,YOU SOUND LIKE A SELF LOATHING JEW? BEING IN MIAMI AND ALL,SO YOU'RE EITHER CUBAN OR A JEW! YOU DON'T SOUND CUBAN?

      • Posted By: MiamiMike @ 01/07/2009 4:08:26 PM

        YOU SOUND LIKE AN IDIOT

  • Posted By: ross1972 @ 01/07/2009 4:08:23 PM

    Hezballah and its leader Nastyrallah have been sucking on the lifeblood of the Lebanese people for too long,it is time for the Lebanese people to drive a stake through the heart of this iranian spawned vampire.

  • Posted By: ross1972 @ 01/07/2009 3:58:00 PM

    Shiite Iran now holds sway over not only its own territory but also wields enormous influence in Iraq,Syria and Lebanon.In the future,a nuclear capable iranian military will be able to send tank battalions and troops unhindered and unopposed right to the border of israel itself.Its fighters and bombers will fly from bases all across this wide region with no need to ask for airspace permission and they may very well be able to drive the Jewish people into the sea.A decade ago that would have been an Iranian mullahs pipe dream.Now it is coming true.

    • Posted By: FATJOEY @ 01/07/2009 4:03:07 PM

      ALL IRANS WEAPONS ARE RUSSIAN,ALL ISREALS WEAPONS ARE AMERICAN,IRAN WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TAKE ON THE JEWS...EVER!!!

  • Posted By: FATJOEY @ 01/07/2009 3:58:49 PM

    ANOTHER CEASE FIRE? WHATS THAT MAKE OVER THE LAST 60 YEARS,300? CEASE FIRES ARE WHY IT WILL CONTINUE ON FOR ANOTHER 60 YEARS!! WHAT A JOKE?

  • Posted By: jjmax @ 01/07/2009 2:55:47 PM

    Dip their bones in pig fat and they will never attack us again.

    In the event someone in power reads this..THE ARABS ARE DEATHLY AFRAID OF PIG FAT/BLOOD AS THEY WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO BE BURIED IN A MUSLIM CEMETERY.

    dONT BELIEVE IT, JUST LEAK IT AS A POSSIBLE TACTIC.

    pigs SCARE THE TERRORISTS TO DEATH.

    they cannot be martyred if this happens.

    peace

    • Posted By: MiamiMike @ 01/07/2009 3:20:55 PM

      Typical dumb American

  • Posted By: mr. red @ 01/07/2009 1:37:14 PM

    I won't label my type of thinking for the sake of avoiding arguments; in my opinion, this battle is not our nation's place to be in. we should not be supplying either side with any weapons; we're basically committing assisted genocide. the gaza strip is fenced off with barbed wire, and the israelis are HUNTING the palestinians. no one can get in or out. a humanitarian act was attempted, but the ship that carried the supplies for help was shot down by the israeli army in international waters. it's a modern day nazi germany.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/07/2009 2:38:17 PM

      Because the Jews spent the 30s shooting rockets at Berlin, right?

      Wanker.

      • Posted By: MiamiMike @ 01/07/2009 3:17:45 PM

        They seem to have learned a lot from the Germans

  • Posted By: mr. red @ 01/07/2009 2:44:10 PM

    so do you think that retribution is the answer?

  • Posted By: mr. red @ 01/07/2009 2:39:06 PM

    is it really necessary to be so hostile? I APOLOGIZED FOR OFFENDING I ADRESS THE FACT THAT I WAS WRONG i don't need to be told more than once that i'm wrong i'm not a todler these are literally my first comments on this site and so far everyone is treating me like i'm stupid and as far as Godwin's Law goes, with all due respect don't use "debate laws" as a crutch or as an excuse to make someone sound wrong and you sound right it's a comment page if you really rely on those rules then some people won't be able to get their point across because it's "against the rules"

  • Posted By: mr. red @ 01/07/2009 2:27:48 PM

    my apologies. i didn't mean to insult anyone. i heard from a good friend who is better with internet research than i am that a ship had been fired on in international waters and the attempt was made by some "low level" political figure. and again i'm sorry for insulting that was not my intent

  • Posted By: mr. red @ 01/07/2009 2:23:06 PM

    i agree with you (bwseattle). I just don't think that wiping them out is the right thing to do. i thought i heard something about a cease fire between them. is this true? they should definatley take that route

  • Posted By: DrewCAENG @ 01/07/2009 2:21:50 PM

    Mr Red please dont insult everyone here by calling Isreal Nazi Germany. I dont remember the Jews in Nazi Germany blowing themselves up in public or launching rockets, or for that matter calling for the destruction of the German state. What Helicopter was shot down? Where do you get your news from? Hunting Palestinians, c'mon! Hamas has been linning up their civilians hoping for them to get blown away because it is good PR for them. Why do you think witnesses saw Hamas fighters rounding up civilians to "dig a bunker" next to the UN school right before Isreal bombed it? Think about it every gaza civilian that dies does more damage to Isreal then Hamas, why would they go after civilians it doesnt help their objective but ask yourself who's objective is achieved when Gaza civilians die? Could it be radical Isalm maybe. hmmmmm use your brain look at the big picture here

  • Posted By: bwseattle @ 01/07/2009 2:05:53 PM

    "palestinians" are bloodthirsty animals, strapping bombs to their children and women. There is no excuse for this, especially the phoney claims of "occupation" by dim witted arab sympathisers.

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