The Lost Shepherd

QIDISRUPT:

The NT denounces unredemptive false teachers who are unrepentant and purposefully lead followers astray, but embraces and calls to repentance those--leaders, but who are held to a higher standard, and others--who need help. See Saul of Taursus, the Apostle Paul, and others.

Ted Haggard's little trist was actually a three year ordeal...as he was downing the meth. He kept this from his wife and family and the millions of followers that looked to him for godly guidance...am I the only one who sees Haggard as a danger to the body of Christ? For starters, he only confessed to the drugging and sexing when others caught him...I have to think critically and note that there is a strong possibilty that Haggard was more sorry that he got caught instead of being sorry enough to turn from the sexing and drugging (repenting). Waiting three years to finally confess is suspect. When I have sinned, I haven't tried to hide it and openly confessed it and turned from these sins that I committed. Another thing that is troubling is that Haggard blames the church for expelling him from the church...the church was being obedient according to Scripture..."expel the immoral brother from among you." Another thing, don't deny that this is what we as a body of Christ are supposed to do when something like this happens in the body of believers...Ted Haggard was only sorry when he got caught three years later...doesn't appear as being truly repetant.

You can't judge a philosophy by it's abuse.

Conversely and for example, terrorism is not an abuse of fundamental Islam--thankfully though the vast majority of Muslims don't practice those fundamentals, whether they've read or know the Quran or not; in Secular Humanism anything goes; and so on.

PECRAIG:

The church was indeed wrong in the beginning, and I'm sorry for your unfortunate/painful experience, in addition to the well known historical abuses, primarily by the Catholic church. With all due respect though to your experience and opinion, just some proper and necessary factual perspective and context:

Your and Ted's experience is actually the exception to the rule in Christianity and obviously abuse of it, and examples of the opposite are the rule and abound, and are what make Christ's and the NT's teachings unprecedentedly unique in the world. Stories like Ted's are the ones that get the publilcity and press in a secular and liberal culture and media, however.

You also generally as a rule never hear in the media of the documented and overwhelming persecution and multiple thousands of deaths of Christians at the hands of non-Christians over the last few decades alone--not to mention the multiple millions of martyrs and victims throughout history. Christianity is the only faith that has grown and spread out of persecution--wherever persecuted the most, it has prospered more; China and areas of the Middle East are prime examples, along with the first and second century church.

In fact, outside of orthodox Christianity--JW's, Mormons, and the cults, Islam, Secular Humanism, atheist governments/regimes, areas of the homosexual community, and so on--falling away from their groups' and belief and/or taking on contrary lifestyles/behavior will result in extreme rejection and/or reprisal, and in certain Muslim and communist countries, imprisonment, torture, or death. The Quran, for instance, specifically teaches and calls for forced conversion and "death to infidels." As Nietzche (sp?) correctly predicted in the late 1800's that the 20th century would be the bloodiest in human history as a result of his and others' philosophies, which included Darwinism, communist, Nazi, Imperialist, Fascist, and other atheist regimes in the last century were responsible for the cumulative deaths of at least 100 and as many as 200 million people, which only partially includes the wars they caused.

Doc Howl:

"Way to go, Haggard! Thanks for proving the rule about puritan conservatives all being closet perverts."

All of them...in the whole world? Wow, I must be the only non-pervert "puritan conservative" in the world! I feel privileged, but I'll be kinda lonely in Heaven.

Oh, by the way, I'm curious to see your statistics and sources, and even more curious to hear how you became so omniscient to know the minds, hearts, and lives of all "puritan conservatives."

Wow, and Christians who speak out in simply sharing their supported opinions while discussing/debating issues are called bigoted, hateful, and intolerant?

Whoops. You're quite entertaining.

HORRIBLE BASTARD:

Can't have it both ways and double standards in "genetics." Homosexuals want to falsely genetically and legally compare to blacks, yet not to those that have sexual lifestyles they disapprove of and/or are illegal.

Tough pill to swallow?

HORRIBLE BASTARD:

You also conveniently-out-of-context forgot to mention the rest of my comparison:

pedophilia, incest, beastiality, adultery, BRAVERY, HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGE, CELIBACY, RELIGION, etc

OOPS, CUT OFF THE LAST SENTENCE OF MY LAST PARAGRAPH:

"My "ilk" are those that confidently believe in reality, comfortable/agreeable or not, as opposed to cultural myth, superstition, and fantasy. I have benevolent intentions, and while I don't know and can't properly judge yours, MWALIMU'S and others, they appear malevolently intolerant in their ignorance."

HORRIBLE BASTARD:

Exactlly, legal or illegal it's a lifestyle, behavior, desire, and compulsion that has to be genetic if homosexuality, alcoholism, etc., are. Oh, and where're those bravery, love, celibacy, religion/belief--which OLDDOGNEWTRICKS says is based on "location, location, location..."--genes?

Again, name calling is always a mask for insecure ignorance. Simply scientifically/socially prove me wrong, as I've previously asked.

His church did exactly what he taught them to do. Hate & shun those that don't fit in their mold.

Another foaming at the mouth evangelist gets caught doing the very things he condemned.

I am shocked. No, really.

As the prostitute was brought before Christm He asked" If you haven't done thesame, cast the first stone"? Guess what, nobody did? God is so gracious that He is willing to forgive and transform lives. David was a great adulterer and a killer but God still called him a man after his own heart. Pastir Ted will definitely rise up to the challenges and fulfill his purpoes in life.

I was walking down the street at lunchtime one day and there were two people getting paid to hold up a sign that said SHAME, SHAME. SHAME. They didn't know anything about it other than the fact that they were getting paid to hold it up. they handed me a flyer that condemed trade unions or something to that effect. The point is they didn't rally care what it said, they just wanted the cash.
Then I ran across an article on the web about Dr.Charles Roselli, a genetic research scientist from The Oregon Health and Science University studying the mating habits of sheep, and a light bulb went off in my head. Ok, now stop laughing, I'm trying to be serious here.
P.E.T.A. as we all know by now as People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals is objecting to the research. Why? well, it seems that Roselli's research has uncovered some interesting facts about the rams in the herd. About 8 percent of the rams aren't interested in mating with the opposite sex sheep, the rams are gay, and P.E.T.A. was really quick to pounce on the fact that Roselli was euthanizing sheep and looking at their brain tissue to understand why. Not exactly catch and release kind of research. Roselli uses about 18 sheep a year in his research, a far cry from the 4 million or so cultivated wordwide for food and wool.

Why would P.E.T.A. zero in on Roselli?. Maybe this will explain it better. P.E.T.A. asked its membership to write this letter to the university president. "I find it appalling that experimenters are cutting open and killing gay sheep in an attempt to 'cure' homosexual tendencies in animals. These experiments also carry the insidious implication that homosexuality in humans needs to be cured."

Roselli's research is really more about understanding animal populations and saving endangered animals from extinction rather that trying to stir up the gay rights pot as P.E.T.A. apparently is. The Image of a fuzzy, helpless animal getting ripped apart by a mad scientist is a powerful one, and I guess P.E.T.A. needs more sheep stories to feed to its own sheep like followers.

The Honorable R. Albert Mohler Jr, President of the Southern Baptist Seminary enters the room about this time, throws his card on the game table and spews out his version of the now infamous Roselli research.The plot thickens. Mr Mohler supports Rosseli"s research because he thinks it could lead to the ground breaking discovery that being gay could somehow be reversed before birth. And I thought the people holding the banner were weird. This guy has a whole flock of potential banner wielding sheep at his disposal if he can drum up a good enough argument and then "bang" before you know it we could have designer babies popping out all over the place. Just choose your colors and a sexual preference and its on its way in only nine short months.

I guess I'm in the wrong business or something, sitting here at the computer while these brainiacs are pulling in boatloads of cash.

7DOLLARS and others:

"they still love haggard down in that bush loving, christian south. land of war, hate, arrogance and phony christian creeps.":

Points well taken about Christian--or in name only--hypocrites; been around for 2,000 years. But that doesn't change the truth. Just like the intolerant hatred and attempted intimidation to silence disagreement of many atheists in these blogs and all cultural/social forums doesn't mean all atheists are intolerant and closed to the truth of reality--truth is that which corresponds to reality.

And, to speak the truth is not arrogant; the arrogance is in it's style of expression and/or the expression of lies and everything else I've just described.

And "bush loving, christian south"? Revealing your bias a little here? I thought it was all about the "midwestern, gun-toting, Bible-belt bigots." Or maybe it's the 100 million plus, underground and illegal Chinese Christian "hypocrites;" or the millions of persecuted Middle Eastern or Eurasian "Bible thumpers;" or the millions of South American Christian "fanatics" among the intellectual, elite, and poor; or the millions of poor Christian "creeps" in Africa, or in the remote tribes and villages all over the world. Or what about the unconstitutional suppression and prohibition of Christian expression and "free exercise thereof" in our own society and among the academic and scientific elite, or the same in Canada and Europe?

Before you all marginalize, stereotype, and call people childish playground names, look in the mirror and open your minds.

TAXPAYER22:

Christ would honestly and compassionately embrace the liberal/homosexual community and tell them to "believe in Me, and go and sin no more."