Trial Of The ‘Deep State’

Prosecutors in Turkey's Ergenekon trial are rounding up top military leaders.

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  • Posted By: edmit @ 03/02/2009 1:27:32 AM

    Turkey is a wild asian state. The election in Turkey is a fake. However, Turkey is the member of NATO. That's why Americans want to convinced themselves that Turkey is a democratic state, while it is not.

  • Posted By: computtr @ 01/27/2009 1:33:42 PM

    If a state is protecting deep state, it is a terrorist state. Turkey is at corner of a miles stone. we should care when living in Turkey. anybody cannot know tomorrow.

  • Posted By: computtr @ 01/27/2009 1:05:27 PM

    there is no any clean deep state. Deep state means like a bandit.May be there are many deep structure which committing crime in the Turkish State.

  • Posted By: computtr @ 01/26/2009 5:24:07 PM

    During AKP goverment, Hrant Dink and a priest were killed, a publishing house which belongs to some Christians was invaded and some people were killed. Before AKP , some people who are not fasting were beating by them. Perhaps some sides may realize difference.

  • Posted By: computtr @ 01/21/2009 4:33:21 PM

    Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan scolded the member of a European parliament about Cyprus who was from Greek side of Cyprus . Everything seems like a comedy.

  • Posted By: computtr @ 01/13/2009 10:33:16 AM

    There is noway out fascism

  • Posted By: computtr @ 01/13/2009 10:32:26 AM

    I do not believe in what happening in Turkey according to media of Turkey. Everything depends on what directions The Turkish army wants. Yo should not forget that The Turkish army prevent from shutting down the ruling party in the Constitutional Court.There is no any logical way to explain what happening.

  • Posted By: erenkoy @ 01/11/2009 1:55:07 AM

    donotbesilly --There is nothing blunt about my reaction. I will' try to explain what was wrong with the author's statement ("Even if the prosecution is holding some innocents, though, it doesn't mean there is no fire beneath the smoke") in two different ways -one within the context, one without the context.

    Since this is about prosecution (context) the rule of thumb should be "innocent until proven guilty." The following statement would be much more consistent with Newsweek's political stance: "Even though there is a fire beneath the smoke it does not mean that the prosecution can innocent people for months without any charges."

    Let's assume this is not about prosecution and focus on the statement only. Smoke and fire example is one of the most used fallacies in politics. "An attempted justification of this fallacy may be based on the idea that the prevalence of such rumours demands an explanation, and the most likely explanation is that some of them are true. "

    If you want to see more example of this fallacy see McCarthyism or Iraq War pretext -or simply watch any of the Bill O'Reilly shows.

    Besides mentioning the opposition party's reaction and then claiming such actions does not raise seems contradictory.


    " Ergenekon probe is a government attempt to silence opposition. That can hardly be true because in Turkey, prosecutors are not supervised by the government." In the US, the Republicans was pressuring district attorneys to prosecute Democrats before the elections. Knowing that can happen in the US and then saying "that can hardly be true" is not sincere. When it comes to the connection between the government and the prosecution there is no smoke but pure fire: The prime minister had been proudly claiming to be the main prosecutor for this case up until a couple of months ago.

  • Posted By: nyoped @ 01/10/2009 1:13:56 AM

    Ergenekon probe is 20% cleaning the deep state and 80% silencing the opposition. By mixing up the usual suspects with the prominent secularists, AKP is trying to undermine the secularism in Turkey. It seems like the usual suspects who were convicted before under the former (and secular ) administrations' watch will be convicted again. No more than 20% of the suspects have any kinds of relationship with the found evidence). The rest of the suspects has been arrested to shock and awe the secular Turks. They have even tried to connect the Ergenokon case with the secular protests to which millions of people attended. They have arrested the editor of the oldest newspaper, a harsh critic of AKP policies; the dean of the oldest and biggest university; the leader of a political party along with other academics and intellectuals who happened to be secular in the wrong country at the wrong place. The message they try to convey is very clear: Do not even dare to protest/criticize or oppose AKP government because we are above the law.

    Also they do not follow the legal procedures, which, I believe, a deliberate effort to terrorize the political opposition. When people know that people can be arrested and kept in prison more than 14 months without any charges they will think twice before challenging the mighty AKP.

    They have even arrested the (secular) persecutor who has fought against the deep state and convicted many deep state members several years ago. It was not a surprise for me since AKP has tried to disbar all prosecutors who dared to challenge any of its members. Now all prosecutors know not to bring up any case against AKP (or else!)

    The author says "Even if the prosecution is holding some innocents, though, it doesn't mean there is no fire beneath the smoke." I would expect this from a neocon or a deep state member but not from a liberal journalist. Since when holding innocent people for months (technical infractions?!?) become an OK think for American liberals? "That some of those arrested have been held for six months without charge is not a scandal in Turkey as it would be in the United States" it is ok as long as it is those Turks who suffer. Have the Chicago Boys infiltrated to Newsweek? I am asking because approaching a country as a pet project and its citizens as ants is something I associate with the Chicago Boys. Our treasury secretary being a neoliberal (former Merrill Lynch employee), IMF now being in Turkey to negotiate another deal and reading apologist articles for governments illegal/oppressive actions on American newspapers I feel like I am living a new chapter of the future edition of the Shock Doctrine.

    Criticizing AKP has always been costly. Erdogan has sued so many citizens for criticizing (he takes it as an insult) himself -a method very similar to one used by corporations to silence the opposition (SLAP suit: strategic lawsuits against public participation).

    • Posted By: dontbesilly @ 01/10/2009 8:49:06 PM

      nyoped -- he did not say that holding innocents is ok, he only said "there is fire beneath the smoke." These are not connected statements. Your reaction is blunt: one wrong (holding innocents) does not mean that should be the whole focus (there is still fire there). We should not be confused because each side is not innocent. Further, he did not say holding innocents was ok, he only said that such actions do not raise eyebrows *in Turkey*.

      One thing we do require is for Americans to think clearly.

    • Posted By: dontbesilly @ 01/10/2009 8:47:44 PM

      nyoped -- he did not say that holding innocents is ok, he only said "there is fire beneath the smoke." These are not connected statements. Your reaction is blunt: one wrong (holding innocents) does not mean that should be the whole focus (there is still fire there). We should not be confused because each side is not innocent. Further, he did not say holding innocents was ok, he only said that such actions do not raise eyebrows *in Turkey*.

      One thing we do require is for Americans to think clearly.

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