Obama’s Cheney Dilemma

Here might be something all of us can agree on: Although Barack Obama may not have been our candidate of choice, he will most certainly be our President. As such, we should all hope that he is successful and indeed want him to be. His failure as President would not be good for any of us or the USA as a whole. And, though I did not vote for him, I am proud that as Americans we elected our first African-American to this office. After living through the 60's and having seen the prejudice that occured against many perhaps we can now heal that wrong in our history. President-Elect Obama was not my candidate, but he will be my President and I wish him success and wisdom to guide our country for all of us. Can we all at least agree on that?

Up here in the Deep Freeze, I would be THRILLED to be instead in Guantánamo Bay.

It's beautiful, warm, what's not to like ?

Very interesting point of view!

Can one imagine say, Messers. Taylor Jr's. and Thomas's sons going together on a vacation and meeting a "native" in a cafe and exchanging telephone numbers with her, since the "native" was a good coversationalist, seemed to be a wholesome person and could get them a few bargains - then being subject to extraordinary rendition ( to, say, Syria or Egypt ) because, unknown to them, she was the girlfriend or sister of a suspected terrorist? They might be charged with providing "material support" to a terrorist / terrorist organization; and of course, the evidence could be their telephone #'s on her phone and hers on theirs. They might even have left her a few messages that they could not find "the items she promised to leave at the front desk" - their recollection would be that she should have left some scarves for them to make their selections for mother / girlfriends and that the transaction would be completed when they met again at the cafe.

I wonder how these good gentlemen would respond to their sons being waterboarded, kept in solitary confinement, deprived of sleep, subject to extremes of cold and heat, beaten, sexually humiliated and kept in stress positions over a period of years, to extract whatever "intelligence" they may have? Because after all, simply being "suspected" is enough to engender this kind of treatment.

Would either of these gentlemen care to respond, revealing to the world (as they did their article), how enthusiastically they would support the waterboarding, solitary confinement, sleep deprivation, subjection to extremes of cold and heat, beating, sexually humiliation and subjection to extended periods in stress positions their sons would endure? After all, it would be in the interest of "National Security" and in keeping with the strategy (however flawed) of their hero, Mr. Chenney!

In the event they do not respond or could not support such actions being taken against their sons, under the circumstances, we can only conclude that their article reflects their positions if the situation does not affect themselves or those of their innercircles; - or perhaps, they could only support such actions if the targets do not look like they do!

To danwalter1: Hey hypocritical idiot! If you don't like the fact that we can say what we want to idiots like you--you should get the hell out of here and go play with the religiously conservative lemmings in the rest of these countries you've mentioned. There, you can tell everyone, or even kill, who doesn't agree with your narrow-minded and thickheaded view of things and you will NEVER have to think for yourself and question things around you. You can shout from the rooftops to support your leader OR ELSE as loud and as much as you want. You can condemn and silence people for using their brains to find what the best reasonnings are simply because you don't want to see the writing on the wall. There you can love your leader no matter what they do, and bend over for them whenever they ask. Sounds like a paradise for an ignorant F*** like yourself. See you later and don't come back okay?

OK, I've read the vast masjority of the comments left here, and I just want to throw my two cents in.

Wire Tapping without evidence or warrants: I'm strongly against this. Not because of having anything to hide, but because of the fact that it's an invasion of privacy. I am against it just as much as I am against the idea of the government taking away the people's rights to state militias and the right to bear arms. It's unconstitutional.

Waterboarding: We pushed for the entire world to obey the international agreements against torture. We claimed the moral high ground and authority to police the world. By torturing our detainees (especially without following our own laws on the matter, or giving them due process) we have shown the world an ugly two-faced side of America. We have gone from one of the world's most beloved nations, to the world's most hated one. If we claim the morals and values the we do, we must show the world that we represent them. Actions speak much louder than words.

9/11: I won't lay blaim to the Bush administration, nor to the Clinton (That would be horribly silly in my point of view). However, I will suggest everyone that keeps bringing 9/11 up to actually go back through the news articles and research the events and people surrounding the attacks. Don't believe everything that you see on T.V., research some of this stuff yourself. Especially the flash point of jet fuel and the melting point of steel.

Conjectures on the safety of America: OK. Wow. Really? I would again suggest that people do some research. Don't make statements as if they were fact without having evidence to back you up. It'll only make others want to stop listening.

Conjectures on the doom of America: Obama hasn't even taken office yet. Give the man a chance, The fanatics that claim that America is going to be destroyed because of a man that proposes talking and negotiating over the 'shoot first, ask later' mentallity are just that: fanatics. Warmongering and hateful, racist statements are a large part of our current problems on the world stage. Maybe a new approach is what's needed.

Socialism: I ask everyone that makes a comment on the evils of socialism to actually look up the differences between socialism and communism. I also ask those same people to look up FDR and the great depression. Furthermore, look up the tenents of our economic system and the phrase "Greed is good." For all religous Americans, I'd like to remind you that greed is a sin. Just something to think about.

My last comment:

Statements like: "Stay away from the malls, they'll all be blowing up", really doesn't do anyone any good. All it does is help spread negative emotions, sentements of hate, and make you sound ignorant.

Kabs

If the "senior spooks" were giving each other high fives, it's not because America hasn't been attacked. It's because they got away with 911.

Our civil liberties never left us defenseless. Indeed, the abuse of power by Bush and Cheney has rendered more damage to America than any past foe ever really imagined. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are Americans worst enemies, causing more deaths, costs and damage physical, social, emotional and international than bin Ladin could reasonably ever hoped for.

There is absolutely no indications that the harsh actions of the Bush regime was to our advantage. Indeed, every indication is that it was a definite disadvantage in every way. Not once has it been shown that the torture actually gained America anything except disgust and damage to America's reputation. This is the most damaging era of our history and ALL of it was because of Bush, who refused to take terrorism seriously, then made America into the worlds greatest murderer and terrorists, far worse than bin Ladin or any other group. We've murdered a couple hundred thousand innocents in our cowardly zeal to protect ourselves from potential attack. It si time Bush and his ilk were tried for terrorism and crimes against humanity. Shame on us if we refuse to do what is right!

Can someone please explain second paragraph, second sentence????????

Hey TCKennedy: The Dems held the Congress (both houses) for two years so the "stranglehold was over in 2006. Get that straight. In those two years they never even attempted to pass any significant legislation and accomplished absolutely zero. Those Dems saw fit to allow this country to wallow and drift for two years for political gain. The president, be it Bush, Obama or whoever replaces Obama at the end of his run has NO AUTHORITY TO PASS LAWS. that is the perview of the Congress. Laws are only signed into law by the president or on rare ocassion vetoed by the president. As for the financial crisis over subprime loans, they were a purely Democratic creation that the Republican congress was loath to tackle lest the Dems cry "racism".

The Republicans are far from blameless as they expanded government spending to obscene levels without regard to the tax paying public or their children and children's chlldren. Unfortunately I don't see, based upon party policy and history, the Dems doing anything to curb spending either.

Your diatribe against President Bush underscores the malevalent and insanely obsessive hatred of the man held by many libs. You fail to discuss policy in favor of personal attacks.

As for our new President I truly hope he can exercise some leadership over the Congress and that they work with him to pass necessary legislation without spending us furher into debt and taxing us into a deeper longer lasting recession. People have placed an inordinate amount of hope and faith in him and he is doomed to not be able to live up to people's expectations. Every president enjoys about a six month honeymoon before the press takes out the knives and starts to hac away. I hope that they understand that the problems we face as a nation will take far longer and involve longer and greater pain by the citizens of this country.

One point that I need to make: The greatest threat that the American people face today is the PATRIOT ACT. It has stripped americans of certain basic freedoms from government intrusion and invasions of our most basic right to privacy and is pernicious and continues to eat away at the very fiber of this republic disguised as a democracy. If our country is to survive as we knew it this law must be overturned.

I'll close with this: I love my country but I fear my government.

It doesn't really matter what happens with these issues. One side or the other will find something to complain about. Or find something wrong with the way things are handled. The bottom line is that there are horrible people in this world. Within the United States and in foreign countries. As a result our government has to do some not-so-nice things to keep our freedoms, and to keep our children safe from those people in this world that have a strong enough feeling of hate for us to commit acts of terrorism or war. It's been happening for thousands of years, and it's not stopping because of Obama or anyone.