God and the Oath of Office

If there is a book one should never take an oath on it is the Bible/NT/Quran. It has never brought happiness. They are books with glorified horror stories never proven to be true. Question: Why has Mankind never QUESTIONED the books it takes an oath on?

Obama should simply make a vow of honor without a book: as in.. My word is my bond. Remember those old days when a word had meaning and substance?

Only stupid people take an oath on the most horrific books of history, full of deceit and lies while the great, jealous, vengeful murderous deity approves. No wonder these religions forbid you to question... if you did question, these gods would tumble down like cheap card houses.

The story of how the use of "God" by Washington is no being considered myth is a total scam, I am a historian and there is actual physical evidence of this happening. A staff member of James Madison (you know the guy who wrote the Consitution) was standing behind Washington as he took oath and wrote down what he said in a journal, and this is not the only source out there. Why is it important that we follow the traditions laid out for us by past leaders? it is not only important to perserve the morals and values that this country was built on but it allows us to reflect on where we came from. Taking "God" out of the oath of office is not just destroying our countrys moral foundations but our history. I am so sick of these people who think that thier rights to freedom of religion are under attack all the time, well what about the right to believe in God...is that so bad to blieve in God? I have my rights to believe whatever I want and so do you but that is not what this is about, it is about tradition and history and the only thing holding this country together is that belief in our past, we shouldn't take that away from the next generation.
When do we stop? Do we take the hint of religion or belief in something bigger out of everything in our past just in case someone might get offended if they don't believe the same way? Everyone has the right to believe whatever they would like to and that goes for our leaders, past, present and future.

How else to proceed except one issue at a time? How else except through the courts? That is the forum provided by the Founding Fathers. I thinik it is pretty good. You can't expect much from the legislative branch since its members' first priority is always re-election. The courts are really the only place to pursue unpopular but necessary outcomes. And we have to expect defeats. Look at the Dred Scott decision and contrast that with the upcoming inauguration.

I don't pay much attention to people who spout off about no atheists in a foxhole and no atheists on their deathbeds. Fear and truth are not the same thing. Neither are fond hopes and reality. We'd all better live our lives as though that's all there is because that is all we can ever know. I get really tired of the "I know my Redeemer liveth" mentality. No, you don't. You merely believe it.

I wonder what Newdow and his supporters aims are. They've made it clear that they are concerned about the Constitution, the Christian right, "religious" intolerance, etc. and accordingly want religion completely out of the public square. But it seems that this complaint about "so help me God" is a lot of effort over something itself minor. What is their overall strategy and what outcome do they expect? Do they hope to chip away at religion in public a little at a time or is their a larger strategy? Maybe this case is purely symbolic. How does this ultimately promote or perhaps hinder their concerns about the Constitution, the Religious Right, intolerance, etc.? Note that while I question their methods, I share many of their concerns. Also, each supporter of Newdow may only share some of these concerns.

How will Newdow's case affect the public perception of atheist like myself? It seems that what the public mostly sees of open atheism, esp in the religious southern states, are the cases of Newdow and possibly the literature of Dawkins, Hutchins, etc. which are to varying degrees anti-theist. Does this mean that people will view atheist as radical anti-theist (not all of us are) and lead to more intolerance of atheism?

This is not a question of their principles or concerns but to question what the outcomes of their actions are (I fear the outcome could be negative for atheist) and how thoroughly they have thought this through.

Finally, I'd like to make the following curious point: what if Obama on his own decided not to say "so help me God"? It seems that this tradition is deeply ingrained and diverting from it would lead to a controversy. I suppose many would be upset and thus for political reasons Obama has say "so help me God".

Whether we "invoke" God or not, God will be there. I hope and pray that we as a nation return to our foundations and acknowledge that fact. Our forefathers acknowledged this in many ways and God provided abundantly for them.

The first President to end his oath with "So help me God"? George Washington.

"It would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe - who presides in the council of nations - and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States, a government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes." George Washington, inaugural address, 1789.

Frank Aldridge, Ridley Park, PA

"What to pin one's hopes on is something that we non-believers have to grapple with"

sms29s66, that's a deep statement right there and one that relates to my earlier point. bkrummel, you state that your reward is getting to experience life, etc. I guess my point is, once your life is over, then what? The moment your life ends, you will not remember whether or not you helped to make the world a better place or not. So I ask again, where does one place their hope then? What about a child who dies before getting the opportunity to experience life or help change the world. Is that just "it" for them? Do they have nothing else to hope for other than a truncated life. There just has to be more than just Birth-->Life-->Death.

How strange to live your life believing that buildings and trees will exist longer than you will. Far from being any kind of "religious fanatic", I get great comfort from knowing that there is a supreme being. One with many names, but still an awesome god. I can't imagine having the arrogance to think that the universe and all its complexities are there, just because. Its called faith and I truly am sad for those who think everything exists only because of scientific reasoning . As they say sir, there are no atheists in a foxhole.

I think that if there are enough people out there who think it should be changed, it is definitely a discussion worth having, the outcome of which could lead to potential changes in future pledges. However, I don't think it is something the current administration should be swayed by...if Obama is the first one to change that particular trapping of tradition, then it may feed some of the more xenophobic notions and paranoias that still lurk amongst those who are in the far right of the political spectrum. However ridiculous those notions may be, such a move, however, innocuous, would convince those people that they were "right all along." Look at all the controversy that surrounded the flag pin issue, which, if you listened to Obama's reasoned stance on it from the start really wasn't the issue people made it out to be, but which was brought up time and time again to try to prove many nonpoints. There are more important things to worry about and change than the stated language of the pledge...leave that for later when some more crucial issues are solved.

Forcing atheism on government officials is just as bad as forcing religion. The one difference is christians are a majority, and by popular Left wing thinking the normal people with common sense who make up the majority are evil. Athiests are only kidding themselves anyway. There are no athiests on their death bed.

bkrummel, I respect your response and your views. Being a believer in God, it bothers me when other "believers" bash and berate those with opposing viewpoints. It actually goes against the love that God represents.

Back to the subject at hand, I just got back from lunch and was discussing this topic with a co-worker and an interesting question came up. If an individual does not believe in God, then where does ones hope lie? Why put up with the troubles and worries of the world if the grave is your only reward? Why not end it now and save yourself the stress and trouble? God reveals himself to me daily through little things. Just watching my children grow is a blessing from God. Knowing that the sun is perfectly positioned to provide just the correct amount of heat to allow us to survive is a blessing from God. Knowing that my brain didn't grow where my kneecaps are and my stomach isn't positioned where my shoulder is, is a blessing from God. It may sound silly, but these are things we take for granted and pass off as just happenstance. Outside of the behavior of man, there is an order about the Earth, its contents, and how it operates. I believe it is God that created and maintains this order and personally, I would rather live my life with the sincere hope that something greater awaits me, than to live knowing that once I die, that's it.

The President does not have freedom of speech and religiion? It is nit picking to try to sue him for saying " so help me God" He is not to mention God in public while he is president, because of people who don't believe in God is offended? The exercise their right to protest in public, they can ignore the statement, if they don't like it. It is personally, and should be none of this person 's busniness. I pray Obama will always put God first, if he does he will always do right. I would be worried if he put himself or another human first. The fact that this person is suing because he doesn't like it , speaks to where his focus is, on himself and his needs. He dosen't care about the majority of people. Maybe he should live i a country that the majority of people does not believe in God or the goverment dictates iwhat you believe.

One thing I'm not understanding about everybody, you were afraid he was a Muslim, and your upset he is going to be saying "SO HELP ME GOD". Maybe we, all need to take three steps back and relook at ourselves before we judge anybody else.

This country was founded by religious people and declared A nation that believes in GOD. It is in our CONSTITUTION and that means it IS proper and legal. Atheist can go to HELL. We'll go to HEAVEN. GOD IS !!!