Less Shouting, More Talking

Yes, I voted for Prop 8. Yes, I oppose gay marriage. But that doesn't make me a religious fundamentalist.

Published Jan 31, 2009

From the magazine issue dated Feb 9, 2009

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On the morning of Nov. 4, I saw an angry confrontation between two groups at an intersection in my California town. Both sides were carrying signs: one set supporting Proposition 8—the ban on same-sex marriage—and the other opposing it. The two groups were angrily shouting and gesturing at each other as I passed by. That's when the tears welled up.

I voted for the ban. As an evangelical, I subscribe to the "traditional" definition of a marriage, and I do not want to see the definition changed.

Does that mean I want to impose my personal convictions on the broader population? No. I celebrate the fact that we live in a pluralistic society, with many different worldviews and lifestyles. I support the democratic process and believe that civil society is at its best when people with different perspectives engage in a mutually respectful dialogue. And that's why the tears welled up on Election Day morning. The angry sign wavers on opposite corners symbolized the way this whole disagreement over same-sex marriage has gone. Angry shouts. Shaking fists. It makes me sad.

This is something that happens on occasion in an intimate relationship. People who care deeply about each other start arguing about some touchy issue. As temperatures rise, so does the rhetoric. Mean-spirited things get said. The situation seems hopeless.

That is why I want to issue this plea to my fellow citizens on both sides of this divide over sexuality: Can we talk?

I ask this as someone who has been one of the angry ones—angry about things that have been said about people like me. I've been on talk shows where people phone in to call me a fascist or equate me with those who burned accused witches at the stake. One remark that hit especially close to home was made by the editor of this magazine. He wrote that anyone—anyone!—who tries to make a scriptural case against same-sex marriage is guilty of "the worst kind of fundamentalism."

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Posted By: stevewh @ 08/19/2009 12:04:39 PM

What I hear you saying is that you're afraid of living in a world where being gay is o.k., where gay people get married, raise kids, and aren't bullied in school for being different. Because gay marriage would do a lot to "normalize" being gay in society, you oppose it.

This is a fair way to phrase your opposition, correct?

So you can see why people think you're hate-mongering. You're opposition to gay marriage rests on your opposition to being gay. You don't want your kids to think it's ok to be gay and decade (as if it were a choice) to be gay.

I think when you take a long look in the mirror you'll realize that what you believe comes down to an opposition to being black. You don't like black people so you want to punish them and deter future black behavior. I replace where gay should go with black to get something across--if you understand why those beliefs are offensive to black people you should see why gay people are equally angry with that being your motivation (and the beliefs you want to impose on them)?
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Posted By: PurplePeopleEater @ 08/19/2009 11:17:04 AM

I agree with Mr. Mouw on one thing and one thing only: we can discuss this in a civilized way. That being said, if I must shout to be heard, then I will shout.
Mr. Mouw mentioned a "slippery slope" of what people could be asked to tolerate. In my view, that argument works both ways. Now that the voting public has asserted its power to strip the rights of a minority, what other rights can be stripped from what other minorities when citizens cast their ballots. As a gay man, what other rights can I expect to be denied by my fellow citizens? That, my friend, is a slippery slope we ought to avoid but it is the slipper slope we find ourselves on as more and more evangelical groups push for a federal ban on gay marriage or for states to prohibit adoption by gay couples. .

Mr. Mouw also suggests that the children of evangelical families may suffer from the media's liberal bias against them. I ask Mr. Mouw to consider how traumatic it might be for a gay youth to grow up in a society that frequently, through popular votes, tells him that he is less valuable and less deserving of fundamental rights because he is gay. That is extremely frightening and disheartening.

While I respect Mr. Mouw's right to speak freely and openly about his religious beliefs, I also ask him to remember his history of the United States of America. Before this country had even been born, the people who emigrated from Europe were in search of freedom from religious persecution. For Mr. Mouw to suggest that, by voting yes on Proposition 8 he is not imposing his religious views on the rest of society, is blatantly and obviously false because that is exactly what has happened. This great nation has thrived on religious freedom, and, again, we would venture down a very slippery slope to allow laws to be passed based on the religious views of some, even if they are the views of the majority. Make no mistake, it is not infringing on anybody's religious freedom to allow gay marriage. Nobody would be forced to practice it or to see it in the aisles and pews of their own church if the law is interpreted correctly. We can all enjoy our full rights as citizens and still live side by side.
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Posted By: burkie1376000 @ 05/26/2009 7:08:19 PM

The establishment clause was written into the constitution to prevent the government from establishing a national religion. Why should we base policy on one religious group's values? Those aren't my values, they aren't the values of many people. If you really believe that same sex marriage is a danger to "the children", I'd like to see one valid secular reason. Why are "the children" so important anyway? They don't deserve any more or less consideration than an adult does on any matter; they're just the adults of the future. Teaching them to be accepting of other people is probably the best thing that a parent can do to make their lives easier, because this is a diverse country we find ourselves in. And what of the children who begin to realize they're gay? Religious banter directed at them will certainly cause severe psychological damage. Do you really care about them? Or are you trying to recruit more foot soldiers for your cause?