The Pope’s Denial Problem

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  • Posted By: sms29s66 @ 02/06/2009 6:51:48 PM

    I don't put all Christians in the same bucket, but the Catholic Church prides itself on the "same bucket." There are certain doctrines you must accept to be a Catholic in good standing. The Church does not permit its members to formulate their own dogma. Baptists, on the other hand, theoretically hold that each member must interpret the Bible for himself. I can't comment on any other denominations.

    • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/09/2009 10:52:04 AM

      OK now I understand, I speak of my Grandma, and my best friend.

  • Posted By: sms29s66 @ 02/08/2009 6:36:18 PM

    It was a comment. Go through and read the longest of these posts and think about the content: The point could have been made in far fewer words. NotsoAtall seems to be saying that ever since the Enlightenment, men have been more likely to rely on their own reasoning. While I don't think that is very true, it could have been said more clearly.

  • Posted By: Notso Atall @ 02/08/2009 12:51:36 PM

    Unity, in a word, is the objective that the Pope as head of the Roman Catholic Church was serving by his action. There is a lot of misunderstanding that is demonstrated by the posts below. Fajalou, in particular, as do some others, goes a long way toward clearing up some of these misunderstandings. The Church as instituted by Jesus Christ accepts God as creator of all things, and seeks to unite us as one "body" in God. In a pluralistic culture the search for unity creates many a paradox. If anyone has done even a bit of reading on what Benedict the XVI has written over many years they would quickly realize he understands well the plurality in religious belief and secularism that has been developing for at least the last 500 years. One of the results of the "Enlightenment" is a flattening of hierarcichal authority (such as the Pope's) and the endowment of every being with the power of reason and will to authority. For many of us we start from the truth of the propostion that reason and will are from our creator and we choose to use them to seek unity with our creator.

  • Posted By: Notso Atall @ 02/08/2009 12:50:09 PM

    Unity, in a word, is the objective that the Pope as head of the Roman Catholic Church was serving by his action. There is a lot of misunderstanding that is demonstrated by the posts below. Fajalou, in particular, as do some others, goes a long way toward clearing up some of these misunderstandings. The Church as instituted by Jesus Christ accepts God as creator of all things, and seeks to unite us as one "body" in God. In a pluralistic culture the search for unity creates many a paradox. If anyone has done even a bit of reading on what Benedict the XVI has written over many years they would quickly realize he understands well the plurality in religious belief and secularism that has been developing for at least the last 500 years. One of the results of the "Enlightenment" is a flattening of hierarcichal authority (such as the Pope's) and the endowment of every being with the power of reason and will to authority. For many of us we start from the truth of the propostion that reason and will are from our creator and we choose to use them to seek unity with our creator.

  • Posted By: mrmagoo661 @ 02/06/2009 12:24:15 AM

    Spoken like a true Anti-Theist. Almost like having Lenny Bruce write an article on the benefits of manners.

  • Posted By: sms29s66 @ 02/05/2009 9:16:21 PM

    How smug. Let's just recall the witch trials in Salem and the inhumane treatment of Catholics in Ireland before you start patting your conscience on the back.

  • Posted By: Scinewswatcher @ 02/05/2009 8:26:32 PM

    Well, I'm Glad I'm Protestant.

  • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/04/2009 11:38:36 AM

    JIMGREEN, WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF, YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTION BELOW!?

    • Posted By: jimgreen @ 02/05/2009 1:13:50 PM

      Uh, do you still have indigestion? "The One" speaking to your heart may simply be heartburn. You do appear to have an anxiety problem.

      I've simply been too busy at work to read this page, but thought I'll take one final stab at it.

      • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/05/2009 1:30:23 PM

        This is the second page I've asked this question, HAVE YOU WALKED WITH THE DEAD? or are you to afraid to answer?

  • Posted By: sms29s66 @ 02/05/2009 12:21:21 PM

    It isn't organized religion...it's our inability to deal with the reality that we are in charge. There is no higher power to which we can appeal. I believe that the Papacy as an institution consciously and cynically plays on the fears of those among us who are "not exactly plagued by ideas." They want to be led because it's easier than facing up to the ultimate responsibility. And it isn't just the Catholic Church. It's all religions. Just as politics is Hollywood for the ugly, religion is politics for the gullible. At least policians don't claim to control your soul.

  • Posted By: Celtia @ 02/05/2009 8:57:34 AM

    This debacle is yet another reason why letting one person control the beliefs and actions of millions is ridiculous. Catholicism is nothing but a sham, a way for a male-dominiated few to run roughshod over many people who sincerely want to believe in the dictates of a higher power.By reaching out to these anti-Semite bishops, the Pope has clearly demonstrated that his goosestepping days are not that far behind him. My sincere hope is that this gesture will wake people up to the fact that organized religion is indeed the opiate of the masses, with Catholicism simply being one of the worst, ost mind-numbing drugs.

  • Posted By: Will 45 @ 02/05/2009 2:39:04 AM


    It's like the movie Pulp Fiction when Tim Roth tries to rob Samuel Jackson in the restaurant. You have the Weak and the Bad. You are the Weak.

    Hitchens what is the following quote saying?

    This belief in the truth is approaching its final conclusion within us - you know what that is: that if there is anything at all to worship, it is the 'illusion' that must be worshiped; that the lie - and not the truth - is divine.

    What were the forces that gave birth to Nazism and Zionism soon after?
    Where do you see faith, hope, and charity? Isn't your article just jabbing at a ghost. What are you going to do this time?

  • Posted By: kathygirl831959 @ 02/04/2009 7:14:37 PM

    Please don't equate man made churches with God and his son. I don't believe Jesus taught us to hate anyone or accuse anyone of his death.

  • Posted By: Mwalimu @ 02/03/2009 11:39:21 AM

    Memo to the Pope: Read Candide by Voltaire.
    In Candide, Lisobon was shaken by a violent earthquake. Catholic theologians from the University of Coimbra concluded that an auto-da-fe would prevent earthquakes. As the church was conducting an auto-da-fe, another earthquake (that we Angelenos would recognize as an aftershock) occurred. The attempt of the Catholic church to blame gays for Katrina, shows how little the church has changed since 18th century Spain and Portugal where the Church was still conducting witch trials and Inquisitions. Does the Pope intend to revive the auto-da-fe?

    • Posted By: jimgreen @ 02/03/2009 3:54:55 PM

      Not only in Europe. The Spanish Catholics conducted the Inquisition in South America, and the Portugese Catholics in India. I think Pope Pius II ordered this - he divided the world between Spain and Portugal to be Christianised.

      • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 02/04/2009 5:06:35 PM

        Cue the Python Music

        Ximinez: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

        Ximinez: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms

  • Posted By: YashBudini @ 02/04/2009 5:02:22 PM

    None of this makes any difference. If it's not one group religious zealots it's another. We're all doomed by thinking like this. It's no longer a question of if, only a matter of when. The thing about having totally blind faith is it makes one the perfect sheeple, steerable to whereever and whatever the leader desires. Of all the methods man has tried to gain power one wonders if this method isn't the most effective of them all.

    "So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. "
    Bertrand Russell
    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/bertrandru123107.html



  • Posted By: dr large @ 02/04/2009 2:21:25 PM

    Jenntags is right -- the problem with Hitchens (and this is clear proof that he thinks just like Mel and his Gibsonites) is that he doesn't begin with what some of us call "facts" or "evidence." What exactly is Pope Benedict doing vis-a-vis the SSPX extremists? He doesn't say.

    And his connection of softening Catholic-Jewish relations to Mass in the vulgate cannot be taken seriously by the critically-minded. Granted, there probably are some connections, but most of them only chronological in nature. To make it sound as if a tenuous connection between those two trends drives the whole thing forward at this point is laughable. But that's Hitchens. He just throws that out there & hopes you don't notice.

    As Mel & the Gibsonites might tell you, "you and your supposed church are evil because you take communion in the hand!!!" Hitchens is no different. Probably spends just as much time getting drunk & hating people too.

    • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/04/2009 2:36:24 PM

      I'm going to dumb here and ask what SSPX stands for.

      • Posted By: dr large @ 02/04/2009 2:50:47 PM

        the Society of St. Piux X. And that's another thing Hitchens doesn't get right. There are a number of very small, localized splinter parishes who consider themselves the "true church," but most of them aren't affiliated with each other. It's true that SSPX is probably the biggest of the lot, but they're not all unified under that banner.

        If you live in a town of any size, I guarantee you there is at least one such parish somewhere nearby. These people walk amongst us!

  • Posted By: TX_Cari @ 02/04/2009 12:27:02 PM

    So what happened to all the people who lived before Jesus, they're just screwed and will float around in limbo or something forever because they never "got saved by the power of JEE-SUS". What about some poor little african kid who lives in the desert and has never seen a bible or gotten the divine priviledge of meeting a Christian. What will JEE-SUS do for him?

    The meek will inherit the Earth, how meek is it really to think that you and ones who share your views-a small percentage out of all the people who have already lived, are living now, or will live in the future-are the ONLY ones who get to go to heaven? Don't include all Christians as those who share your views, the beliefs of different denominations are so radically different from one another they really shouldn't even be considered all the same religion.

    • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/04/2009 12:37:28 PM

      That's way there are so many different religions asking us all to do the same thing. There is more then just one path to The One. Jesus is just one, it's just those who believe in him, (not all, can't put them all in the same bucket) have got the idea from the written word of man, that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Which is just is not so.

      • Posted By: RoseThistleArtworks @ 02/04/2009 12:46:44 PM

        I'll just say what I said below: I've checked out many paths. I didn't find true peace of mind until I studied God's Word. Follow all the paths you would like. You have free will. Hopefully, checking out God's promises and plan is one of your paths. I trust God to guide you.

        • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/04/2009 12:54:27 PM

          See my reply down below

    • Posted By: RoseThistleArtworks @ 02/04/2009 12:31:55 PM

      Jesus went to them during the 3 days He was in the tomb and many were saved at that time. Although some are on the other side of the gulf from God right now, Final Judgment does not happen until after a thousand years of teaching God's truth to everyone in spirit bodies, so everyone will not make decisions in all the deception of this time. At the end of that time, those who want to follow the only one who has been judged to perish, satan, are welcome to do so based on full knowledge. God is fair, God loves His children. God gives free will though. No one is forced to love Him. He doesn't force His way into a life unless asked either.

  • Posted By: dror ben ami @ 02/04/2009 12:31:29 PM

    Time Magazine: Anti Israel or Anti Semitic

    Turkey's Prime Minister Erdogan recently said: just because someone criticizes Israel does not mean they are anti semitic. Does this then mean that Time Magazine's Tim McGirk is not an anti-semite? I don't think so.... Tim has come to Israel from Iraq, a place where Sunnis and Shiites slaughter each other in the tens of thousands, where acid is thrown into the faces of children, where so many Palestinians have been threatened and attacked by Arabs that they call it: The Second Negba (catastrophe). Tim knows all this, yet he implies Israelis are: "devils" because they use phosphorus flares in their night operations. Rape is so common among Middle Eastern armies that it is almost considered "a tradition" (for example: the Turks raped Lawrence of Arabia), yet, while no Israeli has ever even been accused of rape in the last 60 years, Tim McGirk is horrified because a soldier wrote on some wall in Gaza: "you have nice underwear". Hamas has repeatedly declared 1) It wants to destroy Israel and will not give up terrorism 2) It will never recognize the Jewish State 3) It will not abide by previous agreements, yet, in the title of his article on George Mitchell, Tim asks: "Will Israel listen?". Egyptian border guards regularly shoot Sudanese refugees in the back only 100 meters from the freedom provided by the Israeli border, yet Tim McGirk doesn't even mention these events. Likewise, one week ago, Hamas shot over 150 Gazan men and women in the legs "to set an example to the P.L.O.", yet Tim does not feel the need to comment (obviously, these things aren't as news worthy as a woman's underwear). Time Magazine is anti Israel, Tim McGirk is an anti semite. The "time" has come to make a change: transfer Tim to Mecca or Rome.

  • Posted By: hoosierbrad @ 01/31/2009 7:45:30 PM

    By reconciling with these bishops, the Pope is acting like a Christian, not an atheistic commentator.

    • Posted By: newtral @ 02/01/2009 7:44:45 AM

      You are correct. As always, the jews will react very strong when the truth is being revealed about them. They always want their version to prevail & be heard by the world. I salute those christians that are telling a spade a spade.

      • Posted By: Artfully @ 02/01/2009 12:34:46 PM

        fool

        • Posted By: JoanR @ 02/04/2009 12:21:07 PM

          The phrase is "calling a spade a spade" . Genius. That's what happens when you are semi-literate as well as bigoted I guess

    • Posted By: jimgreen @ 02/03/2009 4:51:27 PM

      Jews say You may become Jewish.
      Christians say You should become Christian.
      Muslims say You will become Muslim.

      What a wonderful world it would be without them! But we would lose a lot of art that i enjoy. Or maybe equally-good secular artists would have painted. But religious art does move. One reason I think the Protestants are nuts is becuase of the priceless Catholic art they destroyed in Europe during the reformation.

      • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 02/03/2009 7:46:54 PM

        "Jews say You may become Jewish."

        One little point. Jews do not believe that only Jews are good people or can understand and follow their god. They do not believe in hell or eternal damnation is so there is no punishment (the only "punishment" is what they call distance from "god's light" which would cause distress but is not permanent, lasting at most 7 years at which point basically everyone [except those who actively tried to destroy the Jewish people such a Hitler] gets a free pass to "heaven"). They also plae more valuein the way humans treat their fellow human being than in whether they follow any religious values (which is why on Yom Kippur the law is that if a person has not FIRST and FOREMOST, honestly asked forgiveness from those they have wronged in the pat year, that god will NOT forgive them any wrongs they have done against god. huamns come first.)


        Of course it is all man-made stuff anyway.

  • Posted By: Mr.Bag @ 02/01/2009 12:28:42 PM

    How does an athiest claim to be so knowwledgeable about the Catholic Church? The Church that has over a billion faithful. Mr. Hitchens can seem to narrow it all down to Mr Gibson. Does Mr Hitchens seems to have a problem with the Gibsons more than the Church? He has a very narrow view of what the Church is all about. Maybe the whole one body thing or where the Church moves tward reconcilliation with all Christians is not easily understood. I am surprised that Newswek would allow such a claim against the Church by a person who is against the Church to begin with. It almost seems like a no brainer for the person writing the article. There was nothing of value in it, and it seems as though Newsweek got the shocking headline and hard hitting article they were looking for.

    • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 02/03/2009 10:18:04 PM

      "How does an athiest claim to be so knowwledgeable about the Catholic Church?"

      Although I willake no comment on Hitchen's actual knowledge about the Catholic Church or whether he has a valid point in this views on same, the idea that an atheist could not have extensive knowledge about the Catholic Church or any religious instiution is invalid. All it takes is research into the Church's history, access to which is not limited to Catholics or those who believe in the Abrahamic deity.

      • Posted By: Hangar#7 @ 02/04/2009 12:53:22 AM

        I used to be a Catholic, I abandonned the Church when I started thinking for myself and questioning the Church's dogmas. Most people who stay with that church have been brainwashed and can't think for themselves. No wonder people like Hitchens know way more about religions that most religious people who have surrendered to their pastords their right to think. They are like sheep, there to be fleeced.

        • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/04/2009 12:11:14 PM

          How do you feel about religion now in your heart?

  • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/03/2009 2:12:06 PM

    People never think, the only person who put Jesus on the cross, is Jesus himself. Without the cruxification, Jesus would never have become The Christ.

    • Posted By: jimgreen @ 02/03/2009 3:45:41 PM

      How the *** do you put yourself on the cross! It's pretty high. Pole vault onto it? Probably 2 or 3 men were needed to hang Jesus up to dry.

      • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/03/2009 4:01:22 PM

        Your heart is closed, you will never hear what The One truly is.

        • Posted By: jimgreen @ 02/03/2009 4:54:13 PM

          Jesus died for you. Repent and convert. Else you will go to hell!

          • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/03/2009 5:47:44 PM

            We are in Hell!

            • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 02/04/2009 10:41:18 AM

              You may be in SouthEast Michigan but I am not. (There is a city in Michigan call Hell http://www.hell2u.com/)

              They have a store and a chapel.

              Unless there is another city or town called Hell that is the only real place called Hell there is.


              • Posted By: catspaw @ 02/04/2009 11:11:36 AM

                I'm in Colorado, But where else would you find the warmonglers, killers, rapists, & thefts, but Hell. Of course, personal opinion and that is worth a hill of beans. Heaven is a state of mind. Which I try to stay in.

                • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 02/04/2009 11:21:59 AM

                  "But where else would you find the warmonglers, killers, rapists, & thefts, but Hell.""
                  One hopes in Ihe condemnation and judgement of humanity and history, where both current and future generation learn not only not to emulate them but to fight against them and those like them.

                  "Of course, personal opinion and that is worth a hill of beans."
                  It is worth something to you and if your belief in taht inspires you to avoid doing what they did then it serves both you and society a beneficial purpose.

                  " Heaven is a state of mind. Which I try to stay in."
                  Nice idea.

          • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 02/03/2009 7:26:19 PM

            What a joke. That is a common empty threat. Just wishes from those who have an S&M view of religion.
            As there is no heaven and no hell.

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