THE MILITARY

17,000 … and Counting

Why Obama is sending more troops to Afghanistan now, and a look at the possible end game.

By John Barry | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Feb 19, 2009 | Updated: 9:38  a.m. ET Feb 19, 2009

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 08/18/2009 7:33:26 PM

    Uhh,Barry.

    It would appear that the Taliban have not been ''pushed out'' after all. The first sacking of a four-star general since Korea [ five stars for MacArthur] has created a leadership vaccum where nothing appears to be going right. Instead of pushing the Taliban out of Swat, they have invested this region and then some up to and including regions that hold Pak nuclear weapons. Instead of keeping the Taliban out of the Afghan north, they are moving in. Confused sets of political priorities that include the backing off of air strike and other tactical ground operations that could kill large numbers of civilians have created a piecemeal scenario no differant than the pre-Surge Iraq, where we were fighting on the insurgents terms and not our own. Indeed, the Kabul attacks come on the heels of the largest US operation since Iraqs 2004 Fallujah to date, yet more Taliban have been popping up like opium flowers all over Afghanistan. Barrys article is a reminder of how often the media gets things wrong and can be used as an instructive lesson.

  • Posted By: Nath @ 08/17/2009 4:11:36 AM

    There is a global awareness now on the need to fix the world & how to fix Islam - but darkness prevails on the best method - a solution that is simple and sure will evolve from here. Sounds far fetched & too optimistic ? Consider the peculiar case of 1 million deaths in the Iran Iraq war- this was technically not a Jihad with Kafir and hence all those dead went to HELL for no fault of theirs except that they had Saddam as "boss" - bad leadership brought ruin to followers!

    Every one agrees that nuclear attack on entire middle east from either US or Israel canoot be ruled out at all - but not many know that it appears to be very central to planners of Islamic life. As all muslims prey 5 times a day for death in jihad and seat in heaven to bump 72 goats - this is the most practical way for a benevoilent & merciful kafir like our Mr Bush to deliver a heavenly martyrdom in jihad to all muslims on equal footing.... so that at the Allah's brothel - stock of 72 goats/ martyr can be enjoyed equally by each muslim not just a few selected Talibans & Wahabbis..a case of good leadership solving every problem on earth and in heaven!!

  • Posted By: oengus @ 03/27/2009 10:40:04 AM

    These men and woman in the military, they really need to see the results of their efforts. Many of them will not be able to handle the effort made with no results. The life???s lost the causalities, they are human.

    I do not like war, but nation building that I do, and doing that correctly is that, correct. Much like describing and ideal it is inherently ideal, universally correct. It is not matters of subjectivity it about doing it correctly.

    The end goals are and have been lost in rhetoric, the media does that for sport. Then the government losses sight afraid to do what is correct for fear it might be misinterpreted.

    It requires very little to destroy and much more to rebuild, the takeover happens within months, the rebuilding is generational. To be successful you have to be respectful, are we good at that? Being respectful, logic says that the probability of everyone being an idiot and you not unlikely.

  • Posted By: oengus @ 03/27/2009 10:02:07 AM

    Then you realize what the man meant when he said we could be their for 100 years, if you do not create something you hate to leave behind you did nothing. If you cannot stay and you cannot return then you did nothing, you accomplished nothing.

    Hiring multibillion dollar contractors, you know they create these enclaves of wealth in countries that many resent. How many well could be dug for a billion dollars?

    We more than likely will not do any good in Afghanistan, it take serious time and efforts we really do not have, it trickle down and then the backlash of resentment. It the poor turning to drugs to earn a living. Then the drug lords arming to defend it. Then aligning with the radicals to keep it going and the ruthless killing that comes with all that.

  • Posted By: oengus @ 03/27/2009 10:01:41 AM

    We as American want to send food, rather than give them plantings and help them grow crops. We send bags of grain, to feed them, rather than livestock. Want to make friend have the military drive around with a truck full of goats, sheep and chickens. And bags of seeds, have engineers designing irrigation wells and pumps, provide them with propane and generators to power them? Maybe wind mills or solar panels?

    What you do not do is leave now, the military moving around and fighting is disruptive. They should be everywhere and based on protecting areas and initiative within those areas. You teach English and study Pastun and Persian, you live there and learn to care about them. Learn to respect them.

  • Posted By: oengus @ 03/27/2009 10:01:13 AM

    Converting the poppy crop to cash crops, rebuilding the base economy the rural economies. The market for food exists and has to be done with basics efforts to boost production. That in itself can take 5-10 years, then you can build in secondary industry education, healthcare.

    In Iraq they built legislative bodies that talk, they argue debate and talk, sound familiar?

  • Posted By: oengus @ 03/27/2009 10:00:48 AM

    They have said it before but none want s accept it, occupation requires more personnel than a war does.
    A permanent base may eventually be turned over to the exiting government, but not until there is no issue of security problems.

    Set for the long hall, not the short run, the forces are and have to be much larger and with the purpose to secure economic initiatives, mostly at this stage that should be agricultural. Moving from one level to the next has to occur through agriculture. If you grow poppies you get arrested, if you grow other crops you should be rewarded and protected. You build around that and train and recruit to do it as well, you cross train locals with the occupation forces.

  • Posted By: Firefoxgs @ 02/23/2009 10:20:20 PM

    The truth is that Americans love war, especially a knock-down, drag-out war. In high school, we admired the best athlete. Who admired the puny kid who was beaten up and laughed it off? We admire big league ball players, provided that they're not hooked on steroids. War brings out our heroes, and distracts us from the monotony of our day to day lives; makes us feel like there's some higher purpose to what we're doing. If it's over in a few days against a feeble opponent, like Granada in '82 under Reagan, it's hardly worth having. We like to lord it over backward people, the savages, and say that we're doing it for their own good. We're bringing them democracy, whether they appreciate it at the moment or not; or we're doing it for our own protection - to protect OUR way of life. Nevermind that the missiles from our Predator drones more often than not hit civilians. The only Americans who don't for some reason fully appreciate war tend to be the actual combatants (the grunts), who are often down on their luck, having grown up on the wrong side of the railroad tracks. Often they get twisted. They come back with post traumatic stress syndrodrome, our new word for battle fatigue, and may end up on the streets. But that's OK. We've got the VA to look after them. We're not that much different from the Romans, who enjoyed their own blood sports in the Coliseum, except instead of Christians and other barbarians we've got Afghans.

    • Posted By: AVelez1987 @ 02/26/2009 7:18:06 PM

      You're opinion doesn't represent America at all. We don't have wars just because we are bored or because we are poor, forced to join the U.S. military to make a living. I think American life is very interesting and nowhere near monotonous. We have our own lives to manage with our own fair share of stress & tragedies. I don't think we target Afghans purposely for our own entertainment or to preserve our way of living (we live thousands and thousands of miles away from Afghanistan, its safe to say our way of life isnt threatened by Afghans). I don't think we've purposely picked out Afghans for old fashioned bloodsports. That's what the Taliban do, to their own people.

  • Posted By: IndianDP @ 02/24/2009 7:05:34 PM

    The saying might is right applies perfectly in situations we are dealing with. Americans who never lived in these countries will have insurmountable difficulty to understand the culture there.Beheadings, abductions, rape are common in Afghan/ Pakistan. Recently, agreeing for Sharia law in a small part of Pakistan by the elected government speaks volumes of ruthless operators in the area. Currently some Minnesota Somalians are going back to get brainwashed back in Somalia and it???s only a question of time when a few will return here with US passports to carryout work entrusted by their bosses in Middle east.

    The world is lot smaller now than 30 yrs ago, thanks to fast travel, internet, sat TV etc. There are forces emboldening their global agenda; large amounts are transferred from oil rich nations in the name of upliftment of poor in these nations, a good part of which is diverted to implement the caliphate agenda. Saudi is pumping its petrodollars into even former Yugoslavia building all the mosques and slowly implementing its agenda of transformation. Israel, if defeated, will provide fuel to their global agenda. The separatist violence in Philippines, Thailand, India, and Chechenya are just some more eruptions of the global volcano. No easy solutions here as in case of volcanoes. Stone Age religion is to blame.

  • Posted By: Daniel Shaw @ 02/19/2009 3:27:36 PM

    Just like a Democrat, the commanders on the ground ask for 30,000 troops and they get 17,000. The Democrats don,t want to win. Sounds just like their stance on Iraq. God help us.

    • Posted By: janeyre @ 02/20/2009 11:11:33 PM

      I keep wondering what the prize is... Win what? This country has no business there. How long did Russia fight these people and for what? The money spent on these wars, could help this country... Leave those people alone. It isn't going to be winnable... Just like Vietnam... Loss of lives and money... Unwinnable stupid war... Men are idiots...

      • Posted By: WTL=JC @ 02/21/2009 1:10:18 PM

        men are idiots? ok wonderwoman what do you suggest we do about al qaeda bake em cookies and throw a tupperware party??

        • Posted By: christopherkidwell1 @ 02/22/2009 4:09:51 AM

          Al Qaida is mainly being created by the actions of the United States killing the friends and family of people who were supportive of us or, at worst, neutral towards us. We need to STOP intervening in the Middle East, and stop supporting Israel's genocide against the Palestinian people, which is the source of most of the hatred against the United States.

          • Posted By: Shanshayla @ 02/22/2009 11:37:24 AM

            So the insane actions of 20 maniacs that flew jets into the NY WTC killing 3000 innocent people was all our fault... and we hadn't even gone to Afghanistan or Iraq.

            Nice little apologist you are. I'm sure the terrorists like you very, very much.

            • Posted By: Firefoxgs @ 02/22/2009 1:55:23 PM

              Shanshayla, read the book. By 2001, the U.S. had a well established, 50 year track record of automatic support for Israel. We had in 1991, conducted the first Gulf War against Iraq and had substantial troops on the ground in Saudi Arabia. Do you think al Qaeda gives two hoots about our way of life or our freedoms? Do they object to some portions of the Constitution? We were attacked because we were over there. I can remember back three or four decades when we didn't even have Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. The whole area was recognized by the West and the Soviets as basically a demilitarized zone. But unfortunately that changed, to our detriment and that of the world.

              • Posted By: Shanshayla @ 02/22/2009 3:31:12 PM

                And your point? We we're attacked by terrorists, not a government. These few (relatively speaking) mindless cowards want us "infidels" dead regardless of our presence. And frankly, I don't care if they feel that way about our presence or not. Killing 3000 innocent people by flying jets into buildings wasn't the answer. You can try and negotiate with terrorists all day long and it won't matter... the only thing these brain dead dust devils understand is overwhelming force. Again, they're not part of any legitimate government, so ask me if I give a damn about these murdering bastards.

                • Posted By: Firefoxgs @ 02/23/2009 6:11:17 PM

                  I wouldn't try and negotiate. I would have never have gotten involved in the colonization of that part of the world in the first place. Now, the best thing to do is to get out of their living room. To George III, the American revolutionaries were terrorists. The Afghans are just fighting for that country, as they have done - successfully - for centuries. We're not there to protect our freedoms, democracy, or our way of life. We're there for our usual mercenary / imperialistic reasons. In the 60s, I listened to our government saying that Vietnam was absolute essential to American security. Nevertheless, when we lost the war, nothing happened. There was no line of dominoes that fell afterward. Most of our imperialism can be traced to our "defense" industry and the military. Together, they comprise the military security complex and basically run U.S. foreign policy. Right now, the U.S. faces no security threats from abroad. Even the Soviets had weapons systems that were one or two generations behind ours. We spend more on our war machine than all of the other countries in the world combined. Our only security threat is from within - the collapsing U.S. economy. Bring the troops home, save the money; divert dollars to domestic needs; or better yet, don't spend them at all.

                  • Posted By: WTL=JC @ 02/24/2009 7:38:48 AM

                    well reading your comment it sounds like your a democrat. just for the record george w. bush has nothing to do with this war . so you dems cant blame him. blame yourself and obama. you voted for him

                • Posted By: Fortunate Fox @ 02/22/2009 5:21:09 PM

                  Excellent reply, you keep telling it like it is...

              • Posted By: Fortunate Fox @ 02/22/2009 5:51:36 PM

                Since you consider America at fault for 9/11, I suggest you take a moment and listen to this actual tape of an innocent victim. Melissa Doi, who is about to die on 9/11.

                http://www.danno.net/My_Video_911_Actual_Call_To_911_Melisa_Doi.htm

                People like you, christophekid and janeyre make me to think you're Americans. I aliing myself with Shanshayla... I could give a rat's ass about these murdering bastards. But you go ahead and kiss 'em if you want.

                • Posted By: Fortunate Fox @ 02/22/2009 5:56:14 PM

                  Once more, corrected:: People like you, christophekid and janeyre make me sick to think you're Americans. I'm aligning myself with Shanshayla... I could give a rat's ass about these murdering bastards. But you go ahead and kiss 'em if you want.

          • Posted By: Firefoxgs @ 02/22/2009 1:31:26 PM

            I agree with you completely. In the pre-9/11 book "Blowback," the author states that al-Qaeda largely developed as a result of automatic U.S. support of Israel and the presence of U.S. troops on the ground in Saudi Arabia, which is recognized as sacred soil by Muslims. After World War II, the U.S. replaced Britain as the chief colonizer of the Middle East. In 1953, the CIA even put our own stooge - the Shah - in power in Iran. The U.S. basically became the elephant in the living room that was no longer possible to ignore.

      • Posted By: Fortunate Fox @ 02/22/2009 5:53:36 PM

        Jane, please take a listen here:

        http://www.danno.net/My_Video_911_Actual_Call_To_911_Melisa_Doi.htm

        The terror expressed of a woman just moments before her death just might change your so-called mind.

      • Posted By: Vypurr @ 02/21/2009 9:49:33 AM

        During the Clinton administration, Al Qaeda hit us at will and planned 9/11. Al Qaeda was well financed, safely hidden and protected by the Taliban in Afghanistan. Whatever Clinton tried didn't work. Had we not gone in and disrupted the Taliban and Al Qaeda, more 9/11's were imminent. Would you prefer that to our presence in Afghanistan?

    • Posted By: leprechaun1230 @ 02/19/2009 3:59:53 PM

      Actually, Danny Boy.... King George II and Big Dick Cheney with their lies and exaggerations got us into this war. So, dont sit there and in any way blame Democrats for this debacle. What a ***.

      • Posted By: rocude @ 02/20/2009 10:50:06 AM

        actually dude, this has been going on since way before W and Cheney, do your homework, Clinton lost many a soldiers life in Afghanistan and had to make similar hard choices in response to US embassies being attacked. you can probably quit blaming Bush for everything around about..........now.

        • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 02/23/2009 10:42:55 AM

          "Clinton lost many a soldiers life in Afghanistan "

          Link?

    • Posted By: joe_mama @ 02/23/2009 9:20:54 AM

      "Just like a Democrat, the commanders on the ground ask for 30,000 troops and they get 17,000."

      Excuse me???

      Who left Afghanistan before the job was completed then over-extended our military so we CAN'T produce the 30,000 troops requested by our generals?

      My how soon we forget the recent past.

      Love,

      JM

    • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 02/20/2009 3:25:53 PM

      The generals wanted 350,000 for Iraq in 2003, and Rumsfeld gave them 175,000.

      Just like a republican.

  • Posted By: _chase_ @ 02/21/2009 6:18:48 AM

    As much as I don't approve of the war, America can't actually just leave the country after brutally ravaging it. This should have never happened in the first place.

    • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 02/23/2009 10:46:56 AM

      "America can't actually just leave the country after brutally ravaging it."

      Betcha America can.

  • Posted By: davie divergent @ 02/20/2009 12:43:08 AM

    ...and now it's time to straighten out another of dubya's mess ups. Thank the lord the man is finally out of office: I've never seen such a walking disaster.

    ...and he envies the troops for the glory he'll miss out on. Heck: send him to afganistan! I don't know if he'll find glory but a dose of reality can't but help the man.

    • Posted By: rocude @ 02/20/2009 10:44:00 AM

      How many more months are people going to blame Bush? You could just as easily make an argument that Clinton didn't do enough. Clinton attacks Afghanistan back in the 90's in retalliation for attacks on U.S. embassies and somehow this Afghanistan is W's fault? W ruined the world!!!! boooo hoooo

      • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 02/20/2009 3:27:57 PM

        "How many more months are people going to blame Bush? "

        Until 8 years after people quit blaming Clinton.

        • Posted By: Vypurr @ 02/21/2009 9:55:52 AM

          Clinton did nothing substantial in response to Al Qaeda attacks. It took years to impliment 9/11, which was planned durning his administration. By his own admission, Clinton had OBL handed to him more than once and didin't take him. He says this was the biggest mistake of his presidency.

          And you're telling us he has no blame?

          • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 02/23/2009 10:46:20 AM

            "Clinton did nothing substantial in response to Al Qaeda attacks. "

            Okay, that 8 years just re-started.

    • Posted By: Vypurr @ 02/21/2009 10:10:13 AM

      Well davie diver, what would you have done in response to 9/11? It sounds like you would have done what Clinton did, which was one step up from nothing. Bush took the fight to them, and since kicking their asses and disrupting them, we haven't had an attack in almost eight years.

      And please, omit the usual liberal "Al Qaeda hasn't wanted to attack us" comment.

  • Posted By: Firefoxgs @ 02/22/2009 1:23:24 PM

    The Taliban could take over Afghanistan completely tomorrow and it would not harm U.S. security one iota. The Taliban are just the national resistance. We had ours during the Revolution. They'll fight against any invader, as the Afghans demonstrated during the British and Soviet invasions. Granted, they don't respect the rights of women, they're lousey zookeepers, aren't big on education, don't recognize the touristic value of Buddhist statues, and have a 100 other faults. But it's their country; not ours. As for al Queda, it should have handled from the beginning as a police action, not a military action. Don't use a meat axe when a scalpel will do the job better. All of our missile attacks by drone aircraft largely against civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan are only inflaming the situation. Obama should concentrate on curing the ills of the economy rather than spending money on a military solution in the Middle East.

    As for the Israelis, although the Israelis I have met are individually nice people, it is unfortunate that they learned their warmaking skills only too well from the Nazis. The action in Gaza, the blockade against over a million people, is little short of genocide. The missiles that Hamas used against the Israeli blockade were so small and so wildly inaccurate that it was only sheer random chance that they hit anybody or any structure. Does anybody realize that the Israelis were prohibiting even the most basic of pharmaceuticals to enter Gaza?

    • Posted By: Vypurr @ 02/22/2009 3:44:47 PM

      Quote: "They'll fight against any invader." Maybe the Taliban shouldn't have sponsored, financed and then protected Al Qaeda after the attack on 9/11. That's a sure way to get your ass invaded! Lol!

      And maybe the Palestinians should not have elected a terrorist organization as their government. Hamas wants to destroy Israel... it's in their charter. You probably agree with Hamas in that when they start a fight, they expect their opponent to play by their rules. War doesn't quite seem to work out that way. The Palestinians have brought this on to themselves. They placed themselves in the hands of a terrorist organization that is using them to accomplish their ultimate goal, which is Israel's destruction.

      • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 02/23/2009 10:43:52 AM

        Why should we care about Israel and Gaza? Not our problem. Let them sort it out amongst themselves.

  • Posted By: Getitout @ 02/21/2009 7:54:05 PM

    Obama need to concentrate his war effort in the middle east. Now that Natanyahu is almost the prime minister, a conflict in the middle east is inevitable. The United States is arming Israel enough not to worry about it. But this time it will be nuclear. Missile going to be flying on Israel from north to south, and from the east. So those 17.000 troops needs to be somewhere between those two lovebirds Israelis, and the Palestinians.

    • Posted By: WTL=JC @ 02/21/2009 8:22:19 PM

      what happend to the reagans of the world? ( if anyone uses nuclear weapons against israel. the united states will retaliate with its entire nuclear arsenal ) once we turn our backs on israel were as good as dead

      • Posted By: christopherkidwell1 @ 02/22/2009 4:11:58 AM

        No, we are not 'as good as dead'. The fact is that Israel is genocidal towards the Palestinian people and inciting them AT EVERY TURN to fight against Israel so that they can do their disproportionate actions against the Palestinians.
        Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Israel are the ones shooting off some of the rockets from the Gaza Strip and NOT the Palestinians, in order to give a justification to attack the Palestinians

        • Posted By: Forty4 @ 02/22/2009 11:04:02 AM

          Quote: "The fact is that Israel is genocidal towards the Palestinian people and inciting them AT EVERY TURN to fight against Israel so that they can do their disproportionate actions against the Palestinians."

          Maybe the Palestinian people should not have elected the terrorist group Hamas, who has the ultimate goal of Israel's destruction, to their government. Yes, that goal is in the Hamas charter, and they are using the Palestinian people to achieve that goal. If the Israelis lay down their arms, there would be peace. If Israel lay down theirs, they will die.

          And your wild, idiotic assertion that Israel is firing rockets at itself from Gaza reveals you as certifiably ignorant.

          • Posted By: Forty4 @ 02/22/2009 11:41:31 AM

            Correction: If Hamas lay down their arms, there would be peace. If the Israelis lay down theirs, they will die.

  • Posted By: Evoluted1 @ 02/20/2009 3:11:05 PM

    I would like to hear our mission in Afghanistan defined. What is it that Americans hope to gain for our efforts? Do we really care enough about the Afghani people to expend our money and lives to provide them safety from theocratic oppression? Is there oil/natural gas? Opium money to launder? What are the real reasons we are involved, and what is the time-line for "success"?

    • Posted By: WTL=JC @ 02/21/2009 10:53:43 AM

      why are we in afghanistan? are you serious??? where were you when 9/11 happend? do they have to personally fly a plane into your house to answer that question. ( yes not likely to happend) but wake up people these idiots are unpredictable. wouldnt you rather fight them there than fight them here?

  • Posted By: marcos333 @ 02/21/2009 6:50:41 AM

    i think because this situation be brasilian i m italy i couldnt to jail in my city because mr carlos lancelloti do you liks to do it i dont give interview until solve this question

  • Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 02/20/2009 4:51:43 PM

    Boy oh Boy. One will not find the word ''Surge''in Berrys report due to the fact that he disdained the Iraq Surge [Obama as well] despite the precise reasons laid out in Berrys final paragraph which were also embraced by Petraeus back in his time. What a differance a year-plus makes. Yet a Surge,is a surge,is a surge. [Berry deftly ignores also,the fact that many of these ''far more troops'',will come from Iraq]. Depend upon this.

  • Posted By: NAPOLEON @ 02/20/2009 4:28:03 PM

    FOOLS! GRAVEYARD FOR OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN. WAKE UP AMERICA!

  • Posted By: ndrock @ 02/19/2009 1:38:03 PM

    SICK, SICK, SICK! All the people who are making money off this war, and that is the real reason WHY Obama is sending more troops. If he really wanted to do something truly noble for us his people he would say, Tomorrow we are out there and then do it!
    The trouble being he owes to many people that are making money of the dead soldiers of this country to have the balls and stand up and do the right thing. He should have power, but we all know that is just one big lie.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 02/19/2009 2:21:46 PM

      Looking at the human anatomy again, just to make sure, I found that it's the legs that we stand up on. The others would hurt something awful if you stand on them. Don't do it. Trust me. It would hurt.

      • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 02/20/2009 3:30:18 PM

        hahahaha!

        *coffee/monitor*

  • Posted By: tired and old @ 02/19/2009 1:44:42 PM

    17,000 troops ? 17,000 troops ?

    WHAT IS THE ACTUAL NUMBER ?

    GOVERNMENT LIES.

    OLLIE NORTH TODAY SAID THE ACTUAL NUMBER IS FAR LESS; SO, WHO IS THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT FOOLING ?

    • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 02/20/2009 3:29:28 PM

      Ollie North is a traitor and a fool.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 02/19/2009 2:19:58 PM

      Or, who is Ollie North fooling?

      • Posted By: Combat Goldfish @ 02/19/2009 4:47:33 PM

        Could be a round up. They do that quite often.

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse