THE CONSERVATIVES

You Can’t Go Home Again

Reagan called it the place where good Republicans go to die. But has the very idea of Orange County expired?

By Jonathan Darman | NEWSWEEK
Published Mar 7, 2009
From the magazine issue dated Mar 16, 2009

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  • Posted By: smithyj @ 03/28/2009 6:28:44 PM

    Its like a big liberal wet dream. Thank god this article was posted in opinion. That does lower the requirement for facts.. right? For instance, the mockery of orange county in fictional TV programs created in... Hollywood? Wow. Hard evidence. Then the claim Hispanics are changing the outlook of Orange County? With all undue respect Mr. Darman, you are an idiot. I was raised in a coastal community in Orange County 40 years ago and half of my secondary and primary school classes were, you guessed it, Hispanic.

    It seems that many liberals, like the author of this article, have gotten high on their own cool aide because of a landslide victory. I got news for you. Even those in America who are left of Fidel Castro re for widening the deficit by a trillion dollars so we can have socialized health care, If you really believe that conservative places like Orange County have suddenly socially shifted and are now in favor of such ideas, it might be a good time to but down the bong (or crack pipe) and get a grip on this thing most of us call reality.

  • Posted By: delilah001 @ 03/28/2009 2:48:01 AM

    I am a highschool student taking Governmnet/ Politics class at this time. Some of the things this artical said were related to an interesting class-discussion we had in class this week. The artical said that Republicans regain power every 16 years, countary to the conclusions of our discussioin. After about an hour of an engrossing discussion, my class came to a decision that a different political partie gains power every (about) 35 years. We had plenty of historic evidence to prove this. From 1897 to 1933 was a 36 years period of republican presidents, interrupted with only one democratic president. Then, it was time for the democrats to dominate. They dominated from 1933-1969, a 36 year period. From 1969 to about 2008 has been under republican dominance. We agreed that the high voter turnouts for Obama was a clue that the cycle will continue and democrats will retain power for the next about 35 years. At the end of the hour, we also concluded that the cycle is every 35 years because that is about how long it takes for social change to require governmental change. The releationship between social change and governmnetal change is interesting. If seen on a graph, social change would be a straight line going up from left to right, while governmental change is a steady horizontal line. A different political partie gains control every 35 years because as social change continues, governmental change is also necessairy.

  • Posted By: oclady @ 03/23/2009 11:32:39 AM

    Whoa! It was obvious from reading the article that Mr. Darman had a ax to grind with Orange County. Sure enough,
    his bio states he lived in Los Angeles at one time. You can just bet he had an unpleasant experience down here!
    We have lived here for 35 years, living in Fullerton, Newport Beach, Costa Mesa and Huntington Beach. It has its'
    problems like every other place in the U.S., but most people are hard working people who abide by the rules. Mr.
    Darman, is it so wrong to want to have as little crime as possible and not be rediculed for going to church every
    Sunday? AND shows like "The O.C.," Laguna Beach," and "Real Housewives" were created in HOLLYWOOD,
    not Orange County.

  • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 03/09/2009 6:05:06 AM

    Here's a related story Newsweek could run...How about looking at the pending insolvency of the State of California...held tightly in power by the Democrat party for decades (despite an occasional moderate-liberal Republican). Why not take a look at how a State hell-bent on public spending "for the children" has run itself into a corner that it can't get out of? It's government payroll and related benefits, along with every other arm of government spends beyond what even what their ridiculously high sales, property, and income tax structure can keep up with. Oh, writing such an article could cloud the glasses of Obama Vision...guess that wouldn't work. Hmmm....what to do, what to do....

    • Posted By: McLovinB @ 03/21/2009 12:32:42 PM

      But the governor is a Republican, right?
      And the unmarried octuplets lady, who lives in Fullerton, she is pro-life, right?
      I think if Newsweek really wanted to do a good story on hypocrisy and greed, they would not have to go all the way to Washington to do it.

    • Posted By: sickpuppy @ 03/09/2009 7:03:42 AM

  • Posted By: kshortSD @ 03/09/2009 5:46:42 PM

    Ironically, the OC does represent some of the worst traits the modern era. I lived there for five years, and was suprised at how much everyone strives to be like everyone else. People buy identical homes (which they can barely afford), drive cars that are way out of their budget, and wear labels made to impress...all to keep up appearances that they are just as good as everyone else. I knew I had to move when I started seeing more high school students getting implants for their birthdays...

    • Posted By: McLovinB @ 03/21/2009 12:27:27 PM

      Welcome to Irvine!
      I can only imagine that the various television shows about Southern California made it all so much worse.

  • Posted By: Dropmeoff @ 03/09/2009 12:49:48 AM

    Orange County is the Rhodesia of California. It is a White Supremacist haven that is getting whittled away by the Brown faces that it originally displaced. And just like Rhodesia, the OC is aging, White, and nostalgic for "the good ol' days" of California Apartheid. Those days are forever gone. The future of The OC is Mexican. Those who don't like it can move back to Europe.

    • Posted By: McLovinB @ 03/21/2009 12:22:26 PM

      Yes. This is a troll. Just to shed some light, the county seat of Orange County is Santa Ana. The area has always had a large number of hispanic families. Forty years ago it was probably half white and half hispanic. Asians have come in mostly since the 1970s. I suppose there have been conservative white people there, but I never ever questioned that someday, it would be browner than it was in say.. 1980.
      I think that there is an OKTOBERFEST kind of thing in Orange City every year, but it is not all about white people.
      Maybe racial and ethnic tensions have gotten worse there, but it always seemed to be relatively integrated, with different proportions in different cities within OC.
      Not Rhodesia. More like Denver.

    • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 03/10/2009 1:38:07 PM

      The future of the OC is Mexican? Is that the ethnic make-up or the political system? Hopefully, just the ethnic make-up. Are you then assuming that this will mean that they will all vote Democratic ticket? No Conservative Mexicans, huh?

    • Posted By: stronghorse @ 03/09/2009 1:47:04 AM

      See how well things are now that they got rid most of those pesky "white poeple" in Rhodesia?

      • Posted By: Dropmeoff @ 03/09/2009 3:01:05 AM

        The removal of a cancerous tumor is not without its side effects. But it is necessary for the long-term survival of the body.

        • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 03/10/2009 12:54:57 PM

          Brilliant trolling, sir. Top marks.

        • Posted By: dmb12345 @ 03/09/2009 8:32:41 PM

          That may be true, however the patient usually dies in the end aka Mexico

  • Posted By: McLovinB @ 03/21/2009 12:13:07 PM

    Ahh OC. I was there when everyone was celebrating the passage of proposition 13. Yeah!! Cut taxes!! It was the mantra that swept Ronald Reagan into power, and it really seemed like a good idea at the time. I was there to enjoy the great growth of investment and the economy in general in later years. Then I left.
    Visiting it again later, I have been shocked to see that all manner of public services have just been gutted, most notably the schools. They are just fighting to stay open, it seems. I do not think that the ethnic makeup has really changed all that much. The county seat is Santa Ana, after all, not Disneyland. Chapman College is now Chapman University? Big whoop. The OC register is produced in India these days, didn't you know?

    I would say it is a microcosm of what has gone wrong with the promise of conservatism. Take resources away from government and social infrastructure long enough, and you wind up with well intentioned people trying to provide basic public services on a shoestring. Sooner or later, it all falls to pieces. The increases in home values were an opiate that allowed people to adapt somehow. With that salve gone, living there must chafe badly these days.

  • Posted By: Tricia S. Wilhelm @ 03/12/2009 5:48:47 PM

    So sorry Mr. Darman -- Orange County, in spite of our changing demographics is still Led by the Red

    How ironic that 2 days before your article appeared the Orange County Board of Supervisors unanimously voted to suspend funds in support of health education and reproductive health care from Planned Parenthood. Each of the supervisors cited moral and ideological objections and seemingly ignored the legality of their decisions and most certainly ignored research and common sense. Tobacco Settlement Revenues and not taxes are the funds in question. In Orange County STIs and teen age pregnancy rates are actually increasing. We believe this may be due to the emphasis on abstinence only education.

    In this same Newsweek issue, an essay written by Anna Quindlen ???Let's Talk About Sex,??? provides the evidence that comprehensive sex education is THE KEY to preventing unintended pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases.

    We are fighting the good fight here in Orange County and hope that you could take a moment out of your day to send us your thoughts on this situation. The local blogospheres are loaded with discussion of this debate and lending your voice can only be helpful.

    Local coverage of the story can be found at.

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/county-planned-parenthood-2330970-funding-supervisors


  • Posted By: drewand @ 03/10/2009 5:32:58 PM

    Overreach? Are you mental? Fact of the matter is at least Obama is trying to help the middle class and poor.Talk about overreaching, how about Bush and the neocon movement. Started two wars, that in retrospect, were a complete fiasco and repressed every inovation that threatened our hallowed institutions like the oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, you get the idea. It's like all progress stopped and went into reverse when the Bush republicans came into power. No energy policy, advances in medicine and , oh boy, how about the geneva convention and torturing prisoners not to mention the near collaose of our financial system. I grew up in OC and I have fond memories of living there but I never had any problem finding liberal attitudes at any time. Please don't tell me about Republican values because they clearly do not follow those lofty and selfish, that's right, selfish values. These same "conservatives" are wrecking havok by hoarding their money. Go ahead, bankrupt the country, you selfish so and sos, then your precious money will be worth squat!!

    • Posted By: dmb12345 @ 03/11/2009 8:53:09 AM

      Sir/MAdam- GO help yourself Either party is not there to help you. If you believe that , I have this piece of land in Arkansa that is going dirt cheap , maybe some loser can get off my hands.

  • Posted By: skeetchamp @ 03/10/2009 2:44:06 AM

    Weird that Republicans were so supportive of Bush's DOUBLING of the natioanl deficit, and Bush's TRIPLING of the size of government, but now they CLAIM to be against that kind of thing. One of the major reasons that people like me, who were BORN into the GOP, had to vote for President Obama is the blatant hypocrisy of Republican politicians.
    GOP politicians USE us like tampons, throwing away stuff that makes them uncomfortable.

    • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 03/10/2009 5:48:37 AM

      Two wrongs don't make a right. And don't forget that the deficit budgets under Bush were actually smaller than originally wanted by the Dems -- Bush was still skewered for not spending enough at the time. But that said, bad spending is bad spending...and Congress, regardless of which side of aisle loves to spend. Dems just do it more freely in order to buy more votes of the "working class" who apparently also want their slice of the pie.

      • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 03/10/2009 10:32:41 AM

        and why shouldnt the "working class" (aka the back bone of american civilization) get a slice of the american dream eh? while we continue to outsource work to other countries, while we continue to bailout companies because they are "too big to fail" while at the same time laying off the average joe because the market tanked and we arent producing enough goods or services to keep blue collar/average families afloat in a time of financial crisis. while we spend over 10 billion a month on a "vietnam" style war, while the first bailouts and stimulus did nothing for the economy but maybe put a few more flatscreens in living rooms (doing nothing for our economy because most of our goods are made in other countries due to the reasons afformentioned).... why shouldnt we be getting a little boost? or "slice of the pie"? the middle/lower class is hurting more than the upper classes of society. not to seem naive, but i also realize that the rich are "hurting" too, but in uncomparable and completely different ways. when i hear about a guy that "had to sell his $25,000 painting to make ends meet" it begs the question, "why the hell do you own a $25,000 painting hanging in a house you visit 3-4 times a year in the hamptons?" or when i hear about a "wealthy" person that had to sell ONE of they're houses, or "doesnt feel right about buying that $50,000 peice of jewelry" or "shouldnt buy that brand new mercedes benz because they are afraid of looking pompous".

        im not urging interclass socioeconomic warfare, but the playing feild is becoming a little more level. i dont wish to punish the "rich" with higher taxes either, im sure most worked long and hard to get where they are, the means of arrival to said position for many "upper class" is questionable at times as weve seen, and how many tax loop holes have most of these people jumped through and end up paying less anyways along with "wealthy" tax cuts/breaks?

        basically, its high time for the middle class to get back to work, and get the american economy engine humming again. and at this point, if "we" and that means the average joe, the blue collar worker, the "american dream seeking US citizen" doesnt get a boost or a "stimulus" you can say good bye to everything that is american. good bye to the people that make the rich rich, good bye to the foundations of society, and to the politicians...you can say good bye to your voter base.

        after all that, it wont take long for the deterioration of the foundation of america to be complete. then we will be left with nothing but rich, and poor.

        • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 03/10/2009 10:47:18 AM

          I understand the sentiments regarding the "middle class" but government can't make it better by somehow re-distributing the wealth. There is not some finite pie out there that by taking from one guy, another guy does better. And would we really want that kind of system anyway? The GAO recently reported that even if we tax the top 90% of wage earners at a 100% -- a hypothetical -- we would still not come close in paying for the level of spending being pushed down our throats at this time. But besides that, Conservatives do believe in the power of the free market to lift MORE people up, economically by growing the pie...not by slicing it up. Growing government does not create wealth because it draws capital and resources away from businesses that actually hire people. Unless we really want the Middle Class to be literally hired by the federal government then more government is not the answer. And, in case, someone says we can spend more now but NOT grow government, what will we do when all those programs and new government employees want continued financing next year, and the year after that? Under Obama's plan, the GAO estimates that government will make up 40-41% of the GDP! Are folks really ok with that? Though far from perfect, the free markets of capitalism do offer the best opportunity for creativity, hard work and ingenuity to be rewarded. Its no guarantee, of course. But life ain't fair no matter. But to argue for government to level the playing field is like using a rocket engine to light a candle...its dangerous overkill.

          • Posted By: thinkTwice @ 03/10/2009 7:12:25 PM

            I am sick of the term "redistributing wealth".
            Higher incomes attract higher taxes. Lower income attracts lower taxes. This is something not unique to this country. This system is followed by all democracies of the world. Please stop being a moron and regurgitate sound bytes.

            One citizen takes care of the other for a nation to prosper. We have become a nation of whiners and selfish pricks.

          • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 03/10/2009 11:48:53 AM

            im with you on much of those points.... i didnt mean to make myself out to be a supporter of big government, i should have my opinion clear that i ddidnt support either bailouts or stimulus because we reward failure, and thats a**-backwards.

            as far as your comment on the "level playing field" in regards to my comment of a "level playing field" i didnt mean that i wish for the government to intervene and MAKE the playing field level. time will do that on its own if the current trends continue. apologies for any misconceptions, i had a late night last night.

      • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 03/10/2009 9:58:27 AM

        the credibility of the Republican is lost. If you were to say George Bush failedto control our foriiegn and Domestic policies, that would be one thing. Instead you try to mitigate his role in the financial distaster created by 6 years of the GOP's control over both Houses of Congress and the Supreme Court. Even now, the republicans plot to damage our Country further by obstructing President Obama's attempt to improve the economy. At the same time the GOP supplies the minimum amount of republicans votes in the Senate to assure the money will still flow to their states. The GOP have more than 4 thousand of the 9 thousand earmarks and loudmouth Richard Shelby, Sen. Ala., who rails against the spending bill has over 100 million of his own earmarks in the bill. In 2010 the Democrats will gain 3 to 5 new seats and the GOP will slide further into isolation. soon the Southern states will be the only Red States. The phony Abortion issue and the encouragement of Racism will allow them to keep a stranglehold on the South for many years to come.

        • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 03/10/2009 10:22:33 AM

          Are you writing a movie plot or discussing reality? Republicans plotting to destroy the US? And "encourag(ing) Racism?" Okay... Where is that based in? If Conservative values of Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness without Government constraint equates to racism, then we must live in two entirely different worlds. Are not racial quotas racist? Is not squashing school vouchers for poor minority children in crap-hole public schools...is that not racist? Is not a system the encourages welfare recipients to stay on the government hook bigoted towards the poor? Is not Biden's quip regarding a typical 7-11 employee racist? Isn't calling Colin Powell and Former Secretary of State Condi Rice "tolkens" and "uncle Toms" racist? Isn't it racist to run a Presidential campaign based primarily on the color of the candidate's skin? If you answered yes to any those questions, then you need to take another hard look at your Democratic Party...the Party of Hope & Change and All Things Good.

          But regarding earmarks... Do Conservatives believe that Republican earmarks are as bad as Democrat ones? Yes. And I am railing against all of them, just as many, many Conservatives do each time the government proposes to solve another social problem by throwing tens of billions of dollars at it. IF THAT WORKED, then we should have the finest education system in the world and not one single poor person.

          • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 03/10/2009 10:39:22 AM

            where's the racism in the Southern Republican party? You're joking, right? When LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act all of the Southern Politition with the exception of Klan mamber Robert Byrd, W VA., changed their affiliation to Dixiecrat and shortly there after to Republican. Do you think that move was spurred by something besides racism. Listen, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you just don't know the mentality of the Southern republican. I've lived in the south most of my life, mostly in Ga. and now in Fla. The hope that the South will rise again is still burning in many throughout the Red states. In a little town near savannah, they fly the Confederate Flag over the courthouse and the Post Office. My son in Law, who i love dearly has a rebel flag in his garage window. Now don't get me wrong, the violence is not there anymore but the separation of Black from White is at the top of their agenda. Please don't confuse my remarks as relating Conservatism to racism. You should read what i said. I said the Republicans will continue to rule in the southern Red States because of the phony Abortion issue. It's phony because the Dems. are actualy doing something to reduce abortion, while the GOP does nothing. I said the Republicans will also continue to rule because they encorage the racists. You either don't know of can't bring yourself to admit it. It really doesn't matter, the republican is hardly relevant any more.

            • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 03/10/2009 10:56:31 AM

              And the political system down South is one created soly by Republicans? My point is that calling one Party racist versus the other is childish and just flat out wrong. People can be racist. You bet. But there are as many racist Democrats and Republicans. I personally would rather subscribe to a Party that at least encourages self determination rather than victim-hood. And as far as Abortion....how in the hell are Dems doing anything to reduce the rate? Give us some examples, please. The issue is extremely divisive, no doubt...but today, the issue whether you use federal money to kill what half the population view as a human being.

              • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 03/10/2009 11:28:46 AM

                Maybe you're having trouble reading. Ididn't i say the Southern politicain were Dems. and went from there to dixiecrats and now are Republicans? You premise that the Democrats and the Republicans have the same number of racists is baloney. Of course you know that already. One the one hand the republicans claim to be the party of white males and on the other hand they don't have the most racists? That's laughable! now before you say i said all white males are racist, forget it. Most people in the country including white men are not racists. The racist thrives however in the southern States. why do thing the Klan and the Neo-nazis are headquartered there? Do think it's because the rent is cheaper/ You can have the last twisted word. It won't change the facts. 1. the GOP is sliding and soon will only have the southern Red States providing support. 2. The elected republicans in theose red states relies on and covets the votes of the racist. without it they would be gone altogether. 3. The elected Souther Republican uses the phony Abortion issue to get support. Without that they would cease to be, period. End of Story. The fact that you support a party that covets the racist vote is beyond me. why do you do it?

                • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 03/10/2009 1:12:22 PM

                  gotta go, but two things. The Democrats do support abstinence and Birth Contol. they support sex education in the classroom. the Republicans do not support any prevention methods. not condoms and not birth contol. Not even the day after sex pill. Secondly, i didn't say the Southern democrat isn't racist , many are but have no meaningful vote for senate Races or for President, so racist or not no imput into government policy. I agree with you on the Racist issue completely. I experienced this first hand while working for hillary's campaign in florida. Many, many of president obama's supporters nearly made a fatal mistake in labeling us as racist. At first i wasn't going to support him but those issues that are vital to me would be lost if I didn't help elect a democratis president. I will never support a party that is led by the Republican Soputh. Make no mistake they have the power to make republican policy. Look past the strawman, richard steele and you will see that virtually all of the power is concentrated in the hand of the Republican senators and governors. that it you've really got the last word now. i like to predict so i'll predict that you will not be comfortable for long with the GOP. You have way too much horse sense for that.

                • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 03/10/2009 12:02:19 PM

                  You've simply lost me on the racist thing...no, I just don't get the logic of equating the GOP as somehow more racist down South than the Democrats. And the fact that the GOP has lost political ground makes not a hill of difference to me since I don't subscribe to the notion of party loyalty. Nor do I believe that in the long run, such an ebb & flow in Red States vs. Blue states amount to much. Don't forget that just a decade ago, the media were hyping the demise of the Democrat party and how it was in total disarray and without a message. Things change, but ideas that have sound principals and are backed by how people actually behave will last.
                  As far a me "coveting the racist vote"...not sure where to go with that one. I vote on the issues, but because I tend to take a strong conservative-libertarian viewpoint on things, I do find myself more frequently in agreement with a Republican than a Democrat. But, exceptions exist. I personally find most of today's "dialogue" on race a pile of crap kept up for political reasons by too many... And I cannot see how claiming "the man is keeping me down" will ever get anyone ahead.

              • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 03/10/2009 11:43:15 AM

                I'm sorry, i didn't pick up on the Abortion question.
                here's what i base my opinion that the Dems. do more to curb abortion than the GOP. The Republicans held majorities in the House and Senate from 2001 through 2006. The President was a Republican from 3001 through 2008. the Republicans had and still have the majority on the Supreme Court.

                During that time of Republican dominance, not one bill came to the floor to make a law outlawing abortion. during that time not one court case was filed to overturn Roe/Wade. The only policy the Republicans have put forth is abstinence, just don't have sex.

                The democrats support using condoms, sex education and birth contro pills.

                Tell the truth, if you've got it in you. which method do you think produces more unwanted pregnancy, the just say no method or the preventive policies. The republicans have been hung up on birth contro, just as the Vatican has for year. they have painted themselves into a corner because they've said the promoting birth control was promoting sex or in the Pope's case it was sinful.

                Did you know that 65% of junior high school students have sex? Do think that worries about promoting sex are really relevant.

                Truth is, the GOP uses the Abortion issue for election purposes only. Breaking it out during election cycles and using it as a club to encourage religeos voters to vote for them. After the election they put it back on the shelf.

                • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 03/10/2009 12:35:46 PM

                  By the way, Roe v Wade settled the issue regarding right to have an abortion. The GOP did put forth efforts to restrict when a person could have an abortion...the partial birth abortion ban. And they did try to maintain a pro-life Supreme Court whenever a seat came up. But again. its kind of a moot point. Both Parties use it as a divisive "scare the base" issue come every election and who isn't sick of that?

                • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 03/10/2009 12:18:49 PM

                  Regarding the red-herring issue of abortion... teen sex will occur regardless of what is being taught or not taught in school. My answer to your question regarding what to do about it? How about both abstinence and prevention? I don't think that's too shocking of a statement. Is it a mistake for the GOP to make sex education and abortion a platform iissue? Probably....but the Dems certainly play that fiddle as well. The Abortion card never did any good for the Republicans at election time. It most certainly takes them off message and bogged down in a philosophical quandry...pitting individual rights against State Rights etc...
                  But am I comfortable with a teacher putting a condom on a cucumber in a class of 4th graders? No, but I'm also not for a entirely ignoring the issue either. I think that to most American's, these issues are about degree, timing, and....whose money is being spent.

                  So that all said, my point is that it ain't all Black & White (excuse the pun) and despite the All For Obama message being rammed down our throats at this time, things change...and will. May even happen sooner that you all think given that we're headed for complete financial breakdown shortly unless cooler heads and tighter wallets prevail.

  • Posted By: Riteadibob @ 03/09/2009 9:05:03 AM

    Liberals would love it if they could get the entire nation "hooked" on BIG government. Thanks libs...remember it's all about you first and the country second.

    • Posted By: nimodahooligan @ 03/10/2009 12:24:25 PM

      i wish people would stop perpetuating that kind of crap....

      are we all not just searching for answers? do we all not have the same goals to be able to continue our pursuits of liberty and happiness? do we all wish for this crisis to end? are we not all feeling the pinch of the economy on our wallets?

      both political parties and the electorate are at fault for this mess and for the future messes that will arise. that is how its always been. we vote these people into office, none of them have done a stellar job over the last 40 years or so and now your seeing the product of so much political expediency at the expense of the taxpaying electorate that supports both politcal parties.

      • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 03/10/2009 4:47:34 PM

        the GOP wants this crisis to end but they want it to be on their watch. in the meantime they are rooting for failure and praying that it helps them.

    • Posted By: kshortSD @ 03/09/2009 5:58:20 PM

      Republicans want to stifle diversity, push their religious beliefs on everyone else, and not pay a dime of taxes for the greater good...talk about "me first"...

      • Posted By: rationa1ty @ 03/09/2009 9:05:51 PM

        Your points have merit, but unfortunately they don't do much to move the debate. It is more important to concentrate on debunking the myth of the modern GOP -- that they are the defenders of small government and fiscal responsibility. It may have been true at one point, but not for a long time now.

        This article touches on that fact when it mentions the "contradictions inherent in modern conservatism" -- you can't have small government and big defense spending at the same time. Bush-Cheney civilian wiretaps and CIA activity brought us as close as we have ever been to George Orwell's prediction of "Big Brother" -- you can't have small government and big National Security at the same time.

        Most hypocritical of all, modern conservatives are never slow to grab Federal handouts, but have the nerve to complain about liberal "socialism" while they are taking them. Gail Collins hit this hard in the NY Times:

        http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/opinion/26collins.html

        "How is it that the stars of the Republican austerity movement come from the states
        that suck up the most federal money? Taxpayers in New York send way more to
        Washington than they get back so more can go to places like Alaska and Louisiana.
        Which is fine, as long as we don???t have to hear their governors bragging about how
        the folks who elected them want to keep their tax money to themselves.
        Of course they do! That???s because they???re living off ours."


        Many debates can have two legitimate perspectives. But when simultaneous, contradictory positions are taken - as has been the case within the Republican platform in recent years - they must be flawed.

        • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 03/10/2009 4:38:51 PM

          no duh!

        • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 03/10/2009 1:25:40 PM

          So how does large defense spending (not that I am advocating that) negate smaller government when such spending is done in private sector with public monies? The feds buying the stuff doesn't necessarily equate to having more government employees, programs, and bureaucracies to support forever more. Programs never go away.

          As far as not being slow to grab federal handouts...well, that is another smoke and mirror game of the federal system holding highway monies hostage unless States take other money. Everyone is stuck in that boat.

          But the bigger point is which would you rather endorse, a platform that openly calls for the creation and funding of more and more government programs and calling any reduction in the rate of their spending a cut that will hurt little Johnny? OR a platform that at least makes some attempt at reigning in the expansiveness of spending at the federal level. Neither are too successful...given the culture in Washington, but I'll at least take the guy who goes in trying to cut.

          But less you think I'm a Republican robot -- I see no problem with that Party taking its licks for going against its own principles these past several years. The Dems are large and in charge. I just think that given their propensity to see a governmental role in nearly every aspect of our lives (a long, long track record to prove that one) -- time will tell just how long Americans will sit back and think that Obama Vision is the way to go. I personally think...not long. 3 months in and the cracks are already showing.

          • Posted By: rationa1ty @ 03/10/2009 3:19:31 PM

            I'm sorry, with all due respect, your first paragraph doesn't hold together. Large defense spending means lots of money which means HIGHER TAXES -- or bury the country with huge deficits. And when federal money is spent on national infrastructure, what do you think happens? The government "buys stuff" from contractors just like when it buys from military contractors. The big difference is the stuff we buy isn't there only long enough to shoot or blow up.

            As for what you say about party platforms, Obama is the first president I know to seriously take on farm subsidies (see [1]). Now it will be the Republicans who fight him. What does that say about who stands for "programs."

            And lest you think I'm a Democrat robot -- I'd like nothing more than to have the Republican party make a *reasoned* comeback in order to be sure that extremist Democrats are kept in check. But that can't happen as long as its dominant thinkers want to have their cake and eat it too. To be fair, the "propensity" you are concerned about is exaggerated a lot. The Democratic party of today is not the same as it was in the 1960s and 1970s, partly because moderate Republicans pushed out by extremists have had to find a new home. Please read [2].


            [1] http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=3954&u_sid=10574242

            [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/06/opinion/06brooks.html

      • Posted By: happygrnfrog @ 03/10/2009 12:06:51 AM

        kshortSD.....lets see if I have this correct....Repubs don't want to pay a dime of taxes for the greater good huh, Well let me tell you something friend. Both my wife and I spent almost six months laid off this past year b/c both of our companies thought it would be a good idea to send our jobs over to India to save a few bucks. In the short term that may seem like a good idea, but in the long term they are only pissing off and losing customers. I claimed zero on my W2 and always have which means the gov't takes out the max that they can on my taxes. I paid out the ass in taxes in '08 and saw my severence check brutally raped by the fed gov't. To compensate for loss of wages we cashed in two seperate 401k accounts to use as strictly income so we could pay our bills, keep our house, and have food on our table for our kids. Then after all of that at the end of the year after doing taxes, the federal gov't says you still on me money.....That is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard.

        • Posted By: kshortSD @ 03/10/2009 11:29:49 AM

          Don't call me "Friend", John McCain. And don't take your anger out on me...I'm not the one that caused your troubles...And I truly believe my grief with the Republican party is well justified.

    • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 03/10/2009 4:00:59 PM

      You probably know already the 22 of the 23 Red Republican states recieve more money back from the federal government than they pay in taxes. 7 of 27 blue states recieve more. when you don't really know the facts it makes you look unprepared at the very least.

    • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 03/10/2009 12:51:56 PM

      DITTO, RUSH!

      Hurrrrr...

  • Posted By: memo2 @ 03/10/2009 1:25:17 PM

    The only thing I'm impress, is how this Goverment is been success, it turns as planned step by step, by the book how the, feeling begins on control !...
    Just the begin I will talk about this see you later....

  • Posted By: gvillagran3 @ 03/10/2009 10:27:57 AM

    Memo 2

    About your comment.

    Yeah Right pal. I am sure that your Obama voting friends are now clamoring for the return of Bush's "good old days" when Republicans could spend our money in idiotic wars, expand government to a level that would make a Liberal blush with enbarrassment, preside over the collapse of the world's economy, inherit trillions to Obama in budget deficits, not to mention a long list of problems that can make a grown man cry......... And Obama has exactly one month to solve them , or else you'll loose confidence in him.

    Republicans, I do like the incredible trust you put now on Obama, a man you did not vote for. Apparently after giving President Bush every possible brake for 8 YEARS, you expect Obama to solve all the problems he inherited from you guys in one month. Now that's a confidence , we Democrats can frankly be envious off.

    But it still does not explain why then you voted for McCain.... Unless you actually believed that McCain was ready to resolve our problems in a week, or two..... Come to think of it, and in the light of your demands for Obama, That was probably your plan. Give McCain two weeks, and then start unloading on the man if he does not have us on our way to recovery.

    But then again some how I don't think so... Right Republicans? You are tough with the Democrats, with your party you become a bunch of Pussycats.

  • Posted By: memo2 @ 03/10/2009 10:04:59 AM

    I only can said good luck to all, better is keep trying our selfs, just don't spect anything good coming, Republicans, or Democrats, we all on this don't give-up, don't let all this situation change your mind, this is just a mental warfare game this people play with us, for me I document daily all good things and bad things, tree more years kind of pain full situation but we can make it we are smart and strong mainds, all this will go away like a bad dream !.... Take care of your selfs...

  • Posted By: memo2 @ 03/10/2009 9:46:33 AM

    How things Change, just acuple of months some of my friends they was bery proud !, talking about the President Obama, and all the new proyects and plans for the new future, now in present day is complete diferent stories, and they look sad, they no talking any more about the President Obama, one of them just loose his second job, all this are bery chaotic for one of them, just loose the sence of good friend, I only suggest him to keep trying and focus on his family and keep searching for another job!...

  • Posted By: Rich Monk @ 03/10/2009 9:21:57 AM

    So called conservatism has been hijacked by religious nuts living in the Dark Ages trying unsuccessfully to stop modern science. These same religious morons have keep women in the Stone Ages using a fictional God to proclaim that a menstrul cycle is such a dirty word. Shame on you jackasses! Unfettered greed at all costs in business proves to be a failing road to the future for everyone including the greedy! Going to war because God told the president to go doesn't hold water ever, as we can plainly see with two failed wars going on at the same time now costing some $13 Billion taxpayer every month. Bush had 8 years to secure the Border, and nothing but half ass measures have been taken. Bush the uneducated and arrogant, bumbling fool allowed the outsourcing of all American jobs to overseas Global Corporations that have no interests in America other than flooding it with cheap products using $.30 a hour labor forces. Republicanism turns out to be nothing more than to be intolerant, greedy, arrogant, racist, and bigoted using the Christian religion as it's justification. You failed people, selfishness is not what Jesus had in mind!

  • Posted By: gvillagran3 @ 03/10/2009 12:09:48 AM

    Happygrnfrog.

    About your remarks that the rich, and the middle class wil pay for Obama's spending.

    Friend, I don't know from where you get your information, but I most say you are incorrect. First of all the middle class is getting tax credits, and tax cuts. Second of all the Rich are not getting a tax hicke at all, but simplythe return to their old tax braket, and indexing AS AGREED BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION when they cut taxes for the top earners of our country. The deal was the expiration of the tax cut after ten years.... So my friend that is not called a tax increase but letting the tax cut lapse as it was originaly intended.
    About your remark of "Obama's spending", again are you that missinformed? Do you understand that Obama inherited a Trillion + deficit from the Bush administration? , plus an off the budget trillion + for the war in Iraq? plus the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression? Plus the collapse of the entire financial system that now needs to be bailed out to the tune of trillions of Dollars just for us not to end up back in the stone age?

    Hell do you even remember that Bush was aided and abated by Republicans in his defict spending, Government explosion ways ?

    And now you, and your fellow Republicans want to lecture us about spending, and financial responsibility?

    Give me a brake !!!

  • Posted By: gvillagran3 @ 03/09/2009 11:54:53 PM

    As I recall the Republicans promoted for years the idea of privatizing Social Security to make it "more efficient" . Republicans mocked Democrats for years calling them the party of Big Government. How ironic is now to see them run and hide from the idea now that Wall Street looks like a tornado has hit them.

    No party has a monopoly on bad ideas, but as bad ideas go the privatization of Social Security sponsored by Republicans was almost bordering on the criminal. So if there is one pice of good news that we can take out off the current Wall Street induced economic collapse, is that at least Republicans did not get their wish.... Or we could have been facing the collapse of our social fabric to boot.

    Now I hear echoes of the old discredited Social Security privatization argument on the current Health care crisis debate, and the way the Republicans want to "solve it" . Not surprisingly with again, the privatization of health care, because again "Government is bad" . Some people simply never learn.

  • Posted By: ciscoj74 @ 03/09/2009 10:03:54 AM

    The fact that Obama won the presidency in November should tell republicans everywhere something......and that is your party is nothing but a bunch of screw-ups. Now, of course obama didn't have the mandate that Clinton had....especially in 96. but, he still won.......and he's black....some may have heartburn with that but, an african-american....still wet behind the ears green senator....crooked as the day is long....beat the republican party's puppet. And that's exactly what McCain is....a republican puppet. And i have no doubt whatsoever that he'd be 10 times worse than Bush could have dreamed of being.

    Face it repubs.....you have lost touch with true conservatism. Your greedy fat-cat method of government......tax cuts for the rich and bailouts for failed businesses just so your cronies can get rich........is not what the people want. And, as far as for the people knockin' Rush Limbaugh, yes I'd say they're well within their rights for that one. The Republican Party needs a new image......or an image overhaul....they need a frontline speaker....and i'm sure former house speaker newt gingrich would be 10 times better than Lush......and they need to stop with corporate welfare and tax cuts for the rich.

    If the Republicans want to be in power again, they will have to show the american people they're trustworthy. And they definitely have a long way to go for that!

    • Posted By: happygrnfrog @ 03/09/2009 11:46:47 PM

      ciscoj74....I would agree with you on some points, but I think you and I know, and many other people know how and why Obama was elected. He received the black vote and the hispanic vote. I guarantee over 75% of african-american voters had no clue who Obama was before the election and could not name one thing he actually accomplished while in the Senate. They said look, here's a black guy, we're gonna vote for him. Especially when the other choice was McCain. I do think it was an historic event when Obama was elected but I am not a Dem. I'm a Repub but surely didn't vote for McCain either b/c he actually would have been worse than Bush. Just b/c I'm a repub doesn't mean I'm going to vote for our candidate.
      I just don't believe that the middle to upper-middle class and the wealthy should have to pick up the tab for all of the dem's welfare programs and to support all of the illegal aliens and pay for their healthcare. Why should someone that went out on their own and started a small business, busted their ass and made some money for themselves be punished?? I do understand that there are many people that just came into money, trust fund babies etc...but there are a lot more people that took a chance and started a business and did something for themselves.

  • Posted By: pompeiipat @ 03/09/2009 9:50:24 PM

    Of course they want less government intervention so they can go on ripping people off. Well let me rephrase that because they are the people and they don't rip each other off (if they did they would want government action right now) they rip off others! Now we all know that because they ware the right kind of clothes and have the right kind of money they will be the only ones going to heaven! What a bunch of clueless money hungry yuppies and trust fund babies! They along with their big business snake oil companies have trashed the economy of this nation and expect somebody else to fix in a few weeks what they had the freedom to destroy for the last eight years! I'm sure next we will hear of a new GOP campaign with all the correct words, pretty pictures and religious phrases how you are regrouping. Then of course looking the other way when ripping others off! The world now knows what you really stand for, greed, stupidity and greed! So go on talking aimlessly on your pretty little cell phones, weave back and forth while you drive down the sidewalk, the world will guide you right back to the road, and into cesspool you crawled out of.... for good!

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