The answer to Richard Mouw's questions can be found in the "Church" exclusively defined as the full divinity of Christ in his least known, perfect and diacritical death on the cross for the universal worship of the one true God, as he really is, i.e., in Spirit and truth and transcending all labels in history without exception (John 4: 21-26; 8: 21-28; 10: 17-18, 37-39; 14: 15-21; 16: 5-15; 17: 1-5; 19: 30-37; Matt. 16: 13-28; 26: 62-68). AMEN!
A Christian by Any Other Name
On Facebook, more than 900 groups use a variation of 'follower of Jesus.' It doesn't carry baggage.
Published Mar 7, 2009
From the magazine issue dated Mar 16, 2009
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Posted By: A Disciple @ 11/07/2009 2:18:32 AM
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Posted By: noel670 @ 09/23/2009 3:22:54 PM
i prefer Christian
it should mean i am agreeing that Jesus is the Christo/ the Christ/ the Anointed One/ the Son of The Living God
even though i found myself using follower of Jesus but with this affirmation and clarity
lithsite.com
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Posted By: noel670 @ 09/23/2009 3:18:17 PM
i prefer Christian
it should mean i am agreeing that Jesus is the Christo/ the Christ/ the Anointed One/ the Son of The Living God
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Posted By: levelheaded12 @ 09/09/2009 6:13:40 PM
This is true. However, couldn't a humanist who thinks that Jesus was a good moral teacher say he follows Jesus...
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Posted By: Wanderer65 @ 06/09/2009 7:20:47 PM
Ms. Miller. A good article. Thank you for bringing to the forefront an issue that is increasingly important. As you are well aware, "Christian" has taken on more than just religious nuances--also political, social, etc. I am one of those who is increasingly comfortable with the label--"follower of Jesus." It IS less divisive and keeps the focus on the Person rather than a tradition. Thank you.
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Posted By: Bernard Zaleha @ 03/11/2009 10:56:05 AM
I was interested in Lisa Miller???s story (???A Christian by Any Other Name???) about the new popularity of the ???follower of Jesus??? label. But to those who use this label, I would have to ask, Followers of which Jesus? Are you a follower of the Jesus on display in John???s gospel, who thought he was God, liked rich people, and defined his followers as those who ???believe??? in him, or the Jesus on display in Matthew and Luke, who understood himself as a Jewish prophet, was harshly critical of the rich, and defined his followers as those who served the weak and oppressed? If you tell me you are a follower of Jesus, you???ve told me very little.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/11/2009 4:59:15 PM
Are you a follower of the Jesus on display in John???s gospel, who thought he was God, liked rich people, and defined his followers as those who ???believe??? in him, or the Jesus on display in Matthew and Luke, who understood himself as a Jewish prophet, was harshly critical of the rich, and defined his followers as those who served the weak and oppressed? If you tell me you are a follower of Jesus, you???ve told me very little.
You are supposing that these are two different Christ being presented here. God has no respect of persons meaning that he loves all the same. When the rich oppress the poor then Jesus is irate but even the rich need salvation. Scripture teaches the Whosoever (meaning anyone) rich, poor, prostitute, murderer, thief, politician, soldier.....etc wants to come to God he will not cast away. It is the same Jesus in different scenarios/circumstances.....
John.12
[32] And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
If you tell me that you have read and understood the things that you have questioned. I would say study to the scriptures and don't take things out of context but read what is going on in the passage. or better yet post them online and show me what differences you are talking about instead of generalizing the whole books of John, Matthew and Luke.....point out the scriptures and verses....-
Posted By: Bernard Zaleha @ 04/25/2009 6:19:32 PM
Hi bojack27.
The Christianity embodied in John 3:16 declares that those who ???believe??? in the atoning death of Jesus, referred to this verse as God???s ???only begotten son,??? will receive ???everlasting life.??? The formula is pretty simple: believe in Jesus and you will live forever. The act of ???believing??? is the only act required of you.
In contrast, Matthew 25: 31-40 (which was written than John) reserves heavenly reward for those who fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited those in prison, those who in general tended to the needs of the oppressed and downtrodden of society. There is absolutely nothing in this verse to suggest that ???belief??? in Jesus is required. Indeed, those rewarded appear surprised to learn of the favor they have in the eyes of God, probably having never even heard of Jesus, let alone having ???believed??? in him.
The four canonical gospels and the Gospel of Thomas (which was only discovered in sands of Egypt in 1945) all paint different portraits of Jesus. But the contrast between John 3:16 and Matthew 25 is very stark and cannot be reconciled.
I have indeed studied the New Testament in depth. I have M.A. in Religion from the University of Florida. My initial remark were based on a thorough study of the Christian New Testament and the Hebrew Bible.
Cheers,
Bernard Zaleha
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Posted By: frharry @ 04/11/2009 6:01:36 PM
I think your article misses a major point here. As a follower of Jesus, my focus is on praxis, the way I live the Way of Jesus, NOT on my own comfort re: culture wars or historical baggage. The Way of Jesus was originally one of many ways of living out one's Judiasm, a religion that has historically been much more about praxis than belief systems. At some level, when I say I am a follower of Jesus, I point toward a rather implicit agnosticism about the concerns that seem to exorcise people like Richard Mouw. Intellectual honesty - not to mention humility - requires that we profess some degree of tenativeness about any post-crucifixion construction of Jesus, particularly theological constructions that have historically divided those who would follow him. The reality is, none of us know if there is a life after death and whether buying a certain set of theological propositions guarantees it. But we do know what "love your neighbor as yourself" looks like. And what know what "When you do it unto the least of these, you do it unto me" means. For those who feel the need to argue over christology and seek to exorcise their demons of existential anxiety about death through theological propositions, I say "Go for it." But don't be surprised when more and more of people like me end up replying "none of the above" on the surveys while we simply seek to follow Jesus.
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Posted By: jlfarmer_2809 @ 03/29/2009 10:09:31 PM
IT should not matter what church you go to, or what your neighbor church is, as long as you believe that Christ is your Savior and Jesus died on the cross for your sins, you pray, raise your children to follow the Bible, be good people and respect othhers what does it all matter, Church shouldnt be about whos who or pollitics, it should be about your personal relationship with GOD.
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Posted By: truebeauty30 @ 03/24/2009 6:22:45 PM
This article is good! Its a shame how Christians cant even call themselves Christians ;-/ So I would say I am a borned again follower of Jesus Christ-yes my home boy JC!The one who was crusified + and was risen!
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Posted By: Won2one @ 03/28/2009 12:54:20 AM
What if Jesus came for the purpose of abolishing ALL religions - including Christianity? What if his purpose was to restore a lost relationship the creator had to his creation? What if it is ALL about that restored relationship and not all of our denominations, churches and tribal feuding? What if we spent the last 1700 years building faith based social clubs to attract people to when we were instructed to go to them? What if it is about relationship and not religion?
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Posted By: Thomas Hymer @ 03/27/2009 9:14:37 PM
The general decline in mainline churches is due to the failure of pastors talking directly to their congregations about topics such as sin, redemption, judgment, the type of topics that might make people think about the destinies of their eternal souls. Conversely pastors have succeeded in talking about love, sensitivity, caring, inclusion, and other such warm-fuzzy topics. Thus mainline churches have morphed their services into entertainment attractions in the hope that will draw the people in. However the opposite is true, continued decline in the number of their congregants to which they seem oblivious.
On the other hand the so-called evangelistic churches grow by leaps and bounds. Their pastors teach the Word, actually use the Bible, and preach to the spiritual lives of their congregants.
The sad story is mainline churches have weak and ineffective leadership. They so want to appeal to everybody that they appeal to no one. Is this not the definition of ???lukewarm???? Rev 3:16
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Posted By: seathanaich @ 03/27/2009 5:07:44 PM
Funny how many thousands of different groups all claim to worship One True God. You'd think that if there were only one god, he/she/it would actually come up with One True Message.
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Posted By: truebeauty30 @ 03/24/2009 6:22:26 PM
This article is good! Its a shame how Christians cant even call themselves Christians ;-/ So I would say I am a borned again follower of Jesus Christ-yes my home boy JC!The one who was crusified + and was risen!
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Posted By: michaelwwww @ 03/19/2009 5:22:21 PM
Christian, Evangelical, Protestant, born again believer: all of these labels get defined and redefined by the society and media and other voices in the public square that shape meaning. "Follower of Jesus" may not have baggage now, but it will be assigned baggage over the next decade and a new label will have to be invented.
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Posted By: wildgator @ 03/22/2009 11:19:45 AM
Yes, If you use it as a label then it will definitely become just like them, ie if you say I am a "Follower of Jesus" then it is a label, but if you say I am a follower of Jesus then that is who you are with no label attached. And that is what I see here, not some people trying to be identified differently but people folloing him regardless of what they are called.
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Posted By: emmarcee @ 03/09/2009 9:09:07 AM
I am just not sure why calling oneself "Christian" be "offensive" to Jews or Budhist? Do I smell a bigotic stink?
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Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 03/09/2009 10:00:45 AM
"I am just not sure why calling oneself "Christian" be "offensive" to Jews or Budhist? Do I smell a bigotic stink? "
Generically, as a term, It isn't. But given that, as the author pointed out, that term has become co-opted by social conservatives to define a repressive viewpoint and one that tries to force its ways onto the rest of society, there is some valid concern whe someone first and foremsot defines themselves by that term. That is a shame since the word actually should mean what it originally meant, one who accepts Jesus as their personal saviour without having to force it on others. Hopefully, over time those humane followers will recapture the term and wrest it from the likes of Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Fred Phelps, and the like, who have sullied it.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/09/2009 12:03:57 PM
No one can sull the name of Christ...Those who aren't advid readers or seekers of God sull the perception of what it is to be a Christian. It was a form of mockery when use in the first century. Even in Rome they all called themselve Christians in order to nullify the effect Christianity was having in that region.
No one forces Christianity on others we just have a higher standard of morality to adhere to than those who do not follow Christ. Even some who claim to follow Christ demonstrate by their actions that they do not know him or respect His teachings....such as Obama.
Who by the way is talking about lifting the ban on stem cell research..that is another debate we have had before. But for one (Obama) who readily admitted that it was above his pay grade to determine when life began. He has clearly demonstrated that he really is not a follower of Christ with this decision and other decisions that he has made in the past.-
Posted By: HDavidsonNeverDies @ 03/09/2009 5:43:47 PM
" But for one (Obama) who readily admitted that it was above his pay grade to determine when life began. He has clearly demonstrated that he really is not a follower of Christ with this decision and other decisions that he has made in the past."...some dumb a$$
It's funny how some people here think THEY are GOD...like they know when life begins....who really knows but God? How dare any of you "christians" dare think you know that which only the good lord can know.
Obama's answer at Saddle Back was once of the most humble, sincere, intelligent, and REAL Christian answers I've ever heard on the subject, unlike bush/mccain who simply thought they were god and could know the answer...LMAO!-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/13/2009 5:19:13 PM
" But for one (Obama) who readily admitted that it was above his pay grade to determine when life began. He has clearly demonstrated that he really is not a follower of Christ with this decision and other decisions that he has made in the past."..
.some dumb a$$
Real Mature of you Harley???..
It's funny how some people here think THEY are GOD...like they know when life begins....who really knows but God? How dare any of you "christians" dare think you know that which only the good lord can know.
Do I need to quote scriptures to you who mocks the good Lord every chance he gets?.... We Christian dare because Jesus is Lord and command us to speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves???.at least read the bible before sprouting off at the mouth about the Lord!
Obama's answer at Saddle Back was once of the most humble, sincere, intelligent, and REAL Christian answers I've ever heard on the subject, unlike bush/mccain who simply thought they were god and could know the answer...LMAO!
Obama???s answered showed how arrogant to go into a church setting to portray himself as a Christian and then sidestep the teachings of Christ, Insincere in knowing he supports abortion and angled his response to this question to those who supported his murderous ways, Ignorant in saying that no one knows that answer and saying it was above his pay grade to respond???..science can answer this question easily???. SEE OTHER POST!
Being a PSEUDO Christian like Obamination who denies that Jesus is the only way to the father shows me that you don???t know what you are talking about! McCain knew the answers and had the voting record to go along with it his answers.-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/16/2009 12:24:41 PM
bojack, if a woman or a girl is despirate for an abort, she will have one. Would you rether have her go to a back alley with a straight hanger and she would probably bleed to death, or would you rather have her go to a clinic with a medical professional who will give her the proper care afterwords, and if something happens, that medical professional would have to answer to the proper channels and autherities of the profession.
Choice is better then restriction.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/16/2009 6:18:10 PM
bojack, if a woman or a girl is despirate for an abort, she will have one.
True! If anyone is desperate for anything they are subject to do anything???.but desperation doesn???t make their actions right!
Would you rether have her go to a back alley with a straight hanger and she would probably bleed to death, or would you rather have her go to a clinic with a medical professional who will give her the proper care afterwords, and if something happens, that medical professional would have to answer to the proper channels and autherities of the profession.
I would rather have her not get pregnant, take care of her future, and respect herself and her body for marriage. But you know what they say???.we can???t have everything we want! ???.so the point is that we humans aren???t perfect and when we make mistakes we should not compound that mistake by even making a greater mistake with abortion.
Choice is better then restriction.
Deut.30
[19] I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live:
God has always given us choice, but it is His decision that will count when he alone judges us for the choices we made against His written word that we will be judged on???most abortion occur because of selfish reasons and not life threatening ones???-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/17/2009 1:48:21 PM
You could never even understand what we, girls and women go through. The angush if the decision. Again you spout scripture, but you know nothing of life and truly how to live it.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/17/2009 5:35:23 PM
You could never even understand what we, girls and women go through. The angush if the decision. Again you spout scripture, but you know nothing of life and truly how to live it.
Cat I know more than I care to share with you about this subject....and the anguish of the decision is one reason why you should choose life.....because the anguish after the decision is that one that haunts a girl or a woman until death......Selah!-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/20/2009 10:07:31 AM
You are a man, you can never understand.
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Posted By: Abots22 @ 03/13/2009 4:34:24 PM
Harley - you hit the nail on the head. Since we don't know when life begins then why are we destroynig human embryos and allowing abortions? One might say you are playing with (eternal) fire.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/13/2009 5:20:42 PM
Check out my other post.....
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Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 03/09/2009 7:27:04 PM
Of course they can sully the name of your saviour when they act the way they do in his name.
"No one forces Christianity on others we just have a higher standard of morality to adhere to than those who do not follow Christ."
Bull. I have seen the exact opposite by some followers. Christianity does not have a "higher moral standard".
"Even some who claim to follow Christ demonstrate by their actions that they do not know him or respect His teachings....such as Obama."
He seems to know and respect him far more than many others do.
"Who by the way is talking about lifting the ban on stem cell research..that is another debate we have had before. But for one (Obama) who readily admitted that it was above his pay grade to determine when life began.He has clearly demonstrated that he really is not a follower of Christ with this decision and other decisions that he has made in the past."
But when life may or may not begin has no relevance to stem cell research. Viability does. Embryos are not viabile. And there is no doctor or scientist of any repute who would say that they are.
And it is only your opinion that he is not a follower of Jesus. There are many knowledgable theologians/clerics who would disagree. It is all matter of opinion and of no relevance to his ability or qualifications to be President and to do his job well. In fact in order for him to do his job well he must put the Christian bible (or any religious text) and his religion second to the US Constitution.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 11:38:35 AM
Of course they can sully the name of your saviour when they act the way they do in his name.
Read what I said ConLuv ???Those who aren't advid readers or seekers of God sull the perception of what it is to be a Christian.??? The name of Jesus stands alone and is based on His own teachings and reputation. His merit alone is what people should judge and not what others say about him. This is that problem with people they try to get to know Christ through what others say about him and not have a personal relationship with him themselves. That is why in the end He says, Depart from me, I never knew you!
"No one forces Christianity on others we just have a higher standard of morality to adhere to than those who do not follow Christ."
Bull. I have seen the exact opposite by some followers. Christianity does not have a "higher moral standard".
I say again.. quit answering on emotions Con! I said we have a higher standard of morality to ADHERE to than those who do not follow Christ. Judge the content of the scriptures and not the individual himself. I do agree that some followers fall short???SIN???in there behavior???meaning that they are NOT ADHERING to the teachings of Christ.
"Even some who claim to follow Christ demonstrate by their actions that they do not know him or respect His teachings....such as Obama."
He seems to know and respect him far more than many others do.
When Obama called Jesus a liar! This shows me and should show others that he doesn???t know Him or respect Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior!
"Who by the way is talking about lifting the ban on stem cell research..that is another debate we have had before. But for one (Obama) who readily admitted that it was above his pay grade to determine when life began.He has clearly demonstrated that he really is not a follower of Christ with this decision and other decisions that he has made in the past."-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 11:44:25 AM
But when life may or may not begin has no relevance to stem cell research. Viability does. Embryos are not viabile. And there is no doctor or scientist of any repute who would say that they are.
It has a relevance on being a Christian! I posted a scientist who said that life began at conception and you had nothing to say on this matter. You fall back on something that is not backed by scientific proof that it is not a life. Your only response is that it cannot live outside the womb under 20 weeks thus disqualifying it from being a life???.this manner of thinking has lead to the destruction of many whose lives where deem not viable by Hitler. Murder prevents anyone from surviving outside or inside of the womb. Is Partial-birth abortion is another form of scientific viability statement?
And it is only your opinion that he is not a follower of Jesus. There are many knowledgable theologians/clerics who would disagree.
Quote the theologians/clerics and then support his actions with scriptures pointing out that he is following Christ Jesus. Then I will show you why he is not following Christ by the fruit he is bearing and the denial of Christ Jesus being the only way to the Father.
It is all matter of opinion and of no relevance to his ability or qualifications to be President and to do his job well. In fact in order for him to do his job well he must put the Christian bible (or any religious text) and his religion second to the US Constitution.
I didn???t talk about him being President, I talked about his claim to be a Christian. In order for anyone to do a good job he would not deny who he claims to be and whom he claims to serve and then make something else their god. But since you don???t believe in God it is probably hard for you to understand this way of thinking. But your god is science and if I was to tell you that you have to forget what science says about the viability of the fetus/embryo and look to God you would have a fit. Are you saying that a person has to forget about who he is in order to interpret or apply the constitution?
You still didn't answer the question if the Declaration of Indepence talked about those who were not born! You just side step the issue and try to divert its intent into something used negatively or applied by negative people.-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 12:36:20 PM
Do not judge, or you shall be judged.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 1:14:41 PM
Catspaw....read verse 5 in matthew 7 and then read John 7:24 and get back with me then...you are like others who hear things but don't have a understanding of them....
Matt.7
[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
John.7
[24] Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Now tell me are we suppose to judge? Harley has the same problem as you do when quoting something he doesn't understand. Both are talking about judging righteously, verse 5 tells you to remove them beam out of your own eye and then you are abel to judge (remove) the mote out of the eye of your brother. It is talking about righteous judgment and what you need to do in order to accomplish this...
Luke.7
[43] Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 1:23:10 PM
Notice verse 15 below
1Cor.2
[10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
[12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1Cor.5
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
1Cor.6
[1] Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
[2] Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
[3] Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
[4] If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
[5] I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
Ok I think you might get the hint on judgement....we Christians are suppose to point out what is right nad what is wrong (judge) but we don't have any authority to condemn anyone for there sin, especially since we cannot forgive our own sins. God holds this right all by himself....Selah!-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 1:37:04 PM
The word is THEIR as in to belong to a person.
You spout the words written of man, said to be God, which are unfit for the spoken work of The One. Do you feel this words, can you feel the light well up within your soul. Until then, you are unfit to be the judge of me and judge others on how they believe.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/12/2009 6:25:57 PM
Okay i finally see what Their you was talking about....lol...
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 3:21:07 PM
The word is THEIR as in to belong to a person.
What are you referencing this to?
You spout the words written of man, said to be God, which are unfit for the spoken work of The One.
Wasn???t you just using the words written of men and are of God to try to get me to see a point? Ok inform me of the spoken work of The One.
Do you feel this words, can you feel the light well up within your soul. Until then, you are unfit to be the judge of me and judge others on how they believe.
Are you therefore judging me? LOL???Catspaw when you turn around and do the same things you are accusing me of doing shows your hypocrisy in telling me not to do this! t I???m not telling someone how they should believe. I say if they do believe then the bible should be the final arbitrator and not their feelings or personal interpretations thereof.-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 3:43:06 PM
"Ok I think you might get the hint on judgement....we Christians are suppose to point out what is right nad what is wrong (judge) but we don't have any authority to condemn anyone ""for there sin,"" especially since we cannot forgive our own sins. God holds this right all by himself....Selah!"
The One is The One, evidently you do not know The One as you say you do.
By your own actions, by not accepting my view point and spouting scripture at me, you have judge me unfit for you, because I do NOT believe in the same way you do. You have decided I will go to hell, have you not? I can tell just by your words towards me.
You can not accept I can feel the spirits of the dead around me, have you? By your own words you have not felt the spirits, you have never felt the pain of dead. You have never felt the pain of a spirit that is trapped in a never ending loop of their last moment of life. I HAVE!
I through your post to others you judge them because the do not fit you way of belief. There are more ways then just Christ, Older ways, explore and understand. You will be surprise what a stronger Christian you will become. I learned this from a Methodist woman who had me bapisted. This woman was my Grandmother, she taught me what it truly means to be Christian by her life. Not spouting scripture at me.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 5:59:32 PM
The One is The One, evidently you do not know The One as you say you do.
By your own actions, by not accepting my view point and spouting scripture at me, you have judge me unfit for you, because I do NOT believe in the same way you do. You have decided I will go to hell, have you not? I can tell just by your words towards me.
Hmmm I know Jesus as Lord and Saviour and his teachings in the Bible???I don???t call Him the One and never did I claim to know the One???.. By my own actions or is it by your own presumptions? I could give you scriptures???. I think I will??? look below??? most people are familiar with verse 16 and 17 but not verses 18-21. I don???t have a heaven or hell to put you in and don???t have a say as who is going to go anywhere that belongs to God! What I do have a say in is to teach what I have been commanded to teach and not compromise the Word of God for anyone! If I tell/teach/post/say/anything contrary to what scripture says then I would be misleading you.
John.3
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 6:02:46 PM
deeds should be reproved.
[21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
You can not accept I can feel the spirits of the dead around me, have you? By your own words you have not felt the spirits, you have never felt the pain of dead. You have never felt the pain of a spirit that is trapped in a never ending loop of their last moment of life. I HAVE!
I accept that you and I are talking about two different spiritualities and we are bound to have differences in our discussion and belief of them. My spirituality teaches me that we have nothing to do with the dead or their spirits. My faith also teaches that those who die in Christ are at peace and in His presence. If you are experiencing or have experience those spirits you have talked about then what am I to say that you are wrong! You have your experience and I have mine, our paths are not the same and neither is our destination!
I through your post to others you judge them because the do not fit you way of belief. There are more ways then just Christ, Older ways, explore and understand. You will be surprise what a stronger Christian you will become. I learned this from a Methodist woman who had me bapisted. This woman was my Grandmother, she taught me what it truly means to be Christian by her life. Not spouting scripture at me.
Do people feel judge by what I say or by what they reject? I just quote what Jesus himself said in John 14: [6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Either people accept or reject this saying/teaching of Christ Jesus and as mention in the scriptures above John 3:18-21. As far as exploring and understanding ways of other people ???I study other religions and could quote many that you haven???t even heard of. I know I???m stronger for studying and knowing the truth and having a answer readily available for those who want to know the reason why I believe that Christ Jesus is the only way toward salvation.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 5:50:07 PM
The One is The One, evidently you do not know The One as you say you do.
By your own actions, by not accepting my view point and spouting scripture at me, you have judge me unfit for you, because I do NOT believe in the same way you do. You have decided I will go to hell, have you not? I can tell just by your words towards me.
Hmmm I know Jesus as Lord and Saviour and his teachings in the Bible???I don???t call Him the One and never did I claim to know the One???.. By my own actions or is it by your own presumptions? I could give you scriptures???. I think I will??? look below??? most people are familiar with verse 16 and 17 but not verses 18-21. I don???t have a heaven or hell to put you in and don???t have a say as who is going to go anywhere that belongs to God! What I do have a say in is to teach what I have been commanded to teach and not compromise the Word of God for anyone! If I tell/teach/post/say/anything contrary to what scripture says then I would be misleading you.
John.3
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
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Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 1:23:32 PM
Read what you wrote, Live what you read. If you can understand.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 3:26:41 PM
CatsPaw...am I living for your purpose and glory? If you have a problem with what I write and you think it is not in keeping with Christianity then point it out. Are you trying to tell me to live a Christian life? LOL....and here I thought you accused me of being the one who goes around telling people what their belief should be and how to live.....
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Posted By: paproudmom @ 03/12/2009 2:52:41 PM
Actually it talks about make a ''right" judgement.
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Posted By: catspaw @ 03/12/2009 6:05:17 PM
Thank you
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Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 10:42:33 AM
I think Buddhist have a higher moral standards the "Christians", bojack for one, could ever have. (I do not speak about all who are Christian, because I do know there are people who respect the true teachings of Jesus and live by them)
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 11:53:46 AM
HI Catspaw,
Thanks for the slam! ....LOL....the debate here is not if I or others have higher morals but it is about what we have to ADHERE to a higher standard. If you think I don't adhere to this standard then point out where I'm falling short and back it up with scriptures.
If you think that I'm trusting on my own merit or righteousness to get into heaven then you truly don't know me or what scripture teaches. I cannot be disqualified on my own merit since I don't go by this myself but by the righteousness of Christ Jesus and my acceptance for what he has done for me shall I stand on and nothing else.
If you are going to compare Christianity with Buddism then quote the scriptures from both books and debate them openly. Your opinion is just that an opinion....here is one of many scriptures that cause me to post the higher standard statement.....
Matt.5
[48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Now quote me a saying from Buddism that requires you to be like the Creator of the Universe.... and then we can compare the standards in a relevant way....Selah!-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 12:26:15 PM
"Do on to others as you wish to be done onto you."
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 1:24:47 PM
That is a Christian Standard Cat...now quote me something from Buddism and let us compare the standards.....
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Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 03/10/2009 2:18:50 PM
Actually Bojack, that concept has shown up in many different belief structures, and it has done so indpendently of any Christian or Jewish influence, (since the reality is that Christianty got the "golden rule" from Judaism). It is not just a "Christian Standard:"
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 3:38:56 PM
Hi Con,
Yes I know but what I was trying to get is for her to quote a standard from Buddism that is higher than what I quoted from Matt 5:48
Commonsensism: A version of the golden rule put into modern, non-religious terms that some people live by is, "Treat people the way you'd like to be treated".
Buddhism: 560 BC, From the Udanavarga 5:18- "Hurt not others with that which pains yourself."
Judaism: 1300 BC, from the Old Testament, Leviticus 19:18- "Thou shalt Love thy neighbor as thyself."
Hinduism: 3200 BC, From the Hitopadesa- "One should always treat others as they themselves wish to be treated."
Zoroastrianism: 600 BC, From the Shast-na-shayast 13:29- "Whatever is disagreeable to yourself, do not do unto others."
Confucianism: 557 BC, From the Analects 15:23- "What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others."
Christianity: 30 AD, From the King James Version , 7:12- "Whatsoever ye would that others should do to you, do ye even so to them."-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 3:54:01 PM
You have not looked, I have posted the FIRST teachings of the Buddha on its own thread.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 4:20:21 PM
I found it and comment on it already
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Posted By: Nosmanic @ 03/11/2009 12:05:02 AM
I don't think repubs respect Jesus teachings. They don't respect life with war, other people's rights that disputes that God gave Man free will, or is it that God did but that shouldn't stop other people from taking that away their free will and the corruption of capitalism Jesus threw out merchants for defiling God's temple.
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Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 10:19:04 AM
Hey bojack, you still have not answered my question, to you feel the spirits of your family around you.
Oh ya, Hi Constitution Lover, long time no hear, how are you doing!!!-
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 03/10/2009 11:26:55 AM
Doing fine. How about you (and your husband?)
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Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 12:21:50 PM
We're doing great, you and your wife?
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Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 03/10/2009 2:13:37 PM
Pretty good.
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Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 2:34:45 PM
I think I got bojack a little upset, what do you think?
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 3:40:53 PM
No I just went to lunch...I'm not easily upset catspaw...neither am I easily offended.....I actually like debating with you and others who disagree with me....
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Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 3:49:15 PM
If you like debating so much, then way turn it into such an agrument.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 4:32:13 PM
If you like debating so much, then way turn it into such an agrument.
Never turn it into arguments ...just express myself with passion....lol.... to me I don't argue in the sense of getting angry..... I debate the facts and challenge others to either prove me wrong or provide evidence that they are correct in what they post....
sometimes things on these blogs get very opinionated and facts are not presented....this is typical in all blogs...-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 5:05:44 PM
True
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Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 3:48:20 PM
I was talking to Consitution Lover
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 4:32:43 PM
But I like talking to you too... ;-(
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 11:57:01 AM
Hey bojack, you still have not answered my question, to you feel the spirits of your family around you.
I thought I did answer your question before. But a simple and short answer is NO! So does this mean that I'm not that spiritual or what? I will now ask you a question, Do you know the Spirit of Christ Jesus?-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 12:23:47 PM
Yes, I feel my family, I feel my friends and more, I feel Mother Earth, I feel Father Sky, I feel The One the lights me from within. Can you accept? Can you understand?
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 1:27:15 PM
Thanks for avoiding the question! I simply asked about the Spirit of Christ Jesus in which you did not mention. So I assumed you do not know Him......but you seem to know every other spirit....but are they of God?
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Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 2:31:15 PM
That is way I asked if you can understand and accept.
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 03/10/2009 3:44:18 PM
Cat,
I can understand a lot of things and accept people for having diffent opinions. What I like to do is see if people are basing their beliefs, opinions on knowledge or lack thereof ot the subject that they are talking about....-
Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 5:04:38 PM
But knowledge is only a part, words are only part, it's also what is felt inside a person. How the words can effect a person, but also being able to feel more the just words, to see beyond. To separate from the physical body, to see what others cannot. To travel where only a few can. (I'm sharing more then should)
I guess being partly Native American as well as Europeon and other things, I feel so much that it can be hard to truly express where it all comes from.
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Posted By: HDavidsonNeverDies @ 03/09/2009 5:37:59 PM
There are NO bigger "biggots" than "chriatians"...(bush) those who pretend to love god and claim to be prolife and then support the death penalty and war (bush/mccain/repigs). those who judge others for not believing in fairytales written by MEN who thought the earth was FLAT...(all of the above). Those who claim to have a "higher moral standard" when there are about 25 or thirty OLDER "religious" stories that have virgin births, great floods, resurrections, healings, etc, I dont think you can find any "civilized" pre-christian society that does not say the same old things...don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, etc...the problem is christians think only their "GOD" is the right one, once again missing the message and focusing on the "messenger". Typical, pathetic, sad, repiglickin radical pseudo christains...who try to use "god's love" to judge, control, abuse, and dominate....there is a special place in your HELL for your type ;)
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Posted By: catspaw @ 03/10/2009 3:55:16 PM
Hi Harley
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Posted By: Shoholanana @ 03/09/2009 9:10:38 PM
you smell yourself.
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Posted By: michaelwwww @ 03/19/2009 5:25:56 PM
Christian, Protestant, Evangeleical, Born-again believer: all of these labels have been defined and redefined by the society and the media. "Follower of Jesus" may not have any baggage now, but it will as it is also redefined. In ten years followers of Jesus will be looking for a new label that does not have a negative conotation.
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Posted By: lilwarrior @ 03/19/2009 5:10:26 PM
The reason i choose the term Follow of Christ, is because many claim to be Christians by just belief, where as I attempt to follow Christ in all aspects of my life. It says in the Bible that even the demons believe that there is a God. So my point is, belief alone although good, but even the ddemons know that there is a God. The demons aren't serving God, are you?
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Posted By: lilwarrior @ 03/19/2009 5:10:07 PM
The reason i choose the term Follow of Christ, is because many claim to be Christians by just belief, where as I attempt to follow Christ in all aspects of my life. It says in the Bible that even the demons believe that there is a God. So my point is, belief alone although good, but even the ddemons know that there is a God. The demons aren't serving God, are you?
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Posted By: JeffCalloway @ 03/19/2009 10:31:54 AM
Very interesting article. i believe more and more "Christians" are leaning towards using terms such as follower of Jesus, due to the fact that the word Christian is mis-used by many people. I wrote an entry on my blog several weeks ago title Christian No More - http://www.jeffcalloway.com/?p=23
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Posted By: Barisha @ 03/16/2009 12:47:21 PM
Waiting patiently for Lisa's next piece. I am sure it will be thought provoking!
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Posted By: cthulhu.ftw @ 03/16/2009 11:37:11 AM
praise cthulhu!
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