This is a thoughtful article that begins to address the larger LGBT issues in our society. Thank you for your courage and openness. Good luck with the decision.
MY TURN
Fresh Start
High-school seniors are receiving the final college admissions decisions this week. It's an important choice for any kid, but for gay teens, finding a welcoming campus can be a life saver.
Apr 3, 2009
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Posted By: shoshanasp @ 05/08/2009 3:32:34 PM
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Posted By: shoshanasp @ 05/08/2009 3:30:57 PM
This is a thoughtful article that begins to address the larger LGBT issues in our society. Thank you for your courage and openness!
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Posted By: ntl4j @ 04/16/2009 4:31:12 PM
THe judgment day will come soon
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Posted By: AKMilligan @ 04/09/2009 2:53:56 PM
What a wonderful article and an important issue faced by many young people. Congratulations to Newsweek for running such a nice, thought-provoking piece. I hope that it raises awareness for people working in college admissions and administration. I also appreciate Alyson's bravery for speaking out.
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Posted By: gccinnyc @ 04/08/2009 6:35:13 PM
This is just a poorly written article; if anything, an excuse for the author to publish a picture of her daughter. Seriously, I feel really sorry for any closeted gay kid who read this anticipating anything of substance.
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Posted By: WrongIsNotRight @ 04/03/2009 1:45:44 PM
Amazing! Has the Media with the help of "Perverted Adults" and "Enablers of Perversion" gone mad? This supposed mother is supporting the perversion of her daughter and so are our Educational Institutes. Are people losing their conscience because "Perverts" are clouding their rationalze and convincing the "stupid" that wrong is really right or normal ... namely the issue of Homosexuality? Does the Media have no concept of right or wrong?
The true story should be ... why is the mother allowing her daughter to believe she is normal? Why is the mother not getting help for her daughter? Why is the mother allowing her daughter to be a pervert? With the help of the Media , "Perverted Adults" and "Adult Enblers of Perversion", the few in Society are in charge of our morals, ethics ... unfortunately it is the "perverted few", who are convincing our children and society that Homosexuality is normal.
We need to stand up against homosexuality. It is perverted, wrong and should not be condoned. We can tolerate that people will be perverted and some cannot help being perverted and that they will continue to be perverted. But, we should never accomodate, support, condone or praise perversion or acts of perversion.-
Posted By: dabarth @ 04/03/2009 3:30:26 PM
WINR, try this on for size: (some advice that your bretheren have yelled at the LGBTQ community for years) "Go away, no one wants you in this country; you are worthless and bad -- repent your evil ways." How do YOU like it?
I respect your right to have crazy thoughts. I do not respect your desire to enforce them on me. I simply ask for reciprocity.-
Posted By: WrongIsNotRight @ 04/03/2009 4:10:10 PM
Man are you screwed up.
I respect your right to attain anything you want to attain in this country. But, I will not sit by and allow you to pervert this country and our children. The vast, vast majority of people in the World are not homosexuals. The vast, vast majority of people in the United States have voted against homosexual marriage ... get a clue. But, judges have overturned the vote of the people.
You are not an American and that is not the American way when you pevert my country, my country, my society and my children. America was not built on perversion. America was built on family, morals and ethics and hard work. The framers of the Constituation never in their wildest dreams were thinking about homosexuality when they wrote the Constitution. I am quite sure they never thought they had to address perversion in the Constitution. Homosexuality is so perverse that that was the least of their concerns. But, since those words are not in the Constitution we now in a battle to believe our Constitution was written for perverts? Wrong. In other words, when a Daughter is of age or a Son is of age then our Constitution allows INCEST and the children to marry their parents because all are consenting adults and in love? You are really screwed up.
Where do you draw the line? Easy ... homosexuality is against God, Nature and Society. There are two genders. Homosexuality is perverted. If Nature or God if you believe thought homosexuality was normal there would only be one gender honey and God would have created Adam and Steve to begin all mankind.
You are not of God and homosexuality is not the Godly. Homosexuality is not of nature ... not one animal in the animal kingdom has penetrating same sex ... thus homosexuality is not nature's way. And, certainly you are not of this country to praise or respect perversion because that is not what America was built on. And finally, you are not an adult carrying out their social responsibility. You are not a role model to our children. There is a right and wrong for a male and female to act ... thus two genders! Get a clue. If you want to perverted nation then buy your own island. The American way was not built on perversion. It was built on family, family values ... morals and ethics. Get a clue. Be an adult and grow up.-
Posted By: orchestraofbanjos @ 04/04/2009 10:58:13 AM
Actually, humans are not the only species that will have sex with the same gender.
Do your research before you join the debate, hon.-
Posted By: WTL=JC @ 04/06/2009 1:43:43 PM
Your point? Humans steal and murder and have incest. Should we make special rights for them also. No of course not. Those things are not normal and are sin. So is homosexuality. So what your basically saying is thiefs and murderers and homosexuals should have equal rights. Where do you people draw the line??? God help us all!!!
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Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/03/2009 5:27:17 PM
"But, I will not sit by and allow you to pervert this country and our children. "
What are you going to do, tough guy?-
Posted By: leftypower @ 04/03/2009 8:21:21 PM
I'm not perverting your children, Whiner. God help you should one of your children be queer. Suicide is a bitch, honey.
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Posted By: Kindral @ 04/03/2009 6:14:45 PM
The only things that he CAN do would lead to jail. I love the bluff and bluster some people have.
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Posted By: REASONISBEST @ 04/03/2009 4:27:27 PM
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Posted By: WrongIsNotRight @ 04/03/2009 4:14:30 PM
DUH,
No one wants me in this country? ROTFL Listen honey the vast majority of the people in every state even California think like I do. They are against homosexual marriage honey. DUH. As a matter of fact most of them outlawed it and voted against homosexual marriage. The liberal judges like in Iowa have overturned the vote and rule of the poeple honey. Obviously, you are not in the majority ... no one wants you! ROTFL but hey nice try.
We in the United States are now aware of the homosexual agenda and it is to divide and dispel anyone who thinks contrary to them. They want people to think that homosexuality is normal and not perverted. Nice try.-
Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/03/2009 5:26:38 PM
"No one wants me in this country?"
Nobody but the other bigots. -
Posted By: REASONISBEST @ 04/03/2009 4:29:13 PM
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Posted By: crj2002 @ 04/03/2009 4:25:50 PM
Hmm... you know that the principle job of the court system is to PROTECT the minority from majority oppression right? I mean I assume you have learned of the three branches, etc.. and know that it's because of the courts that we got the ball rolling on equal rights for African-Americans and Women's Suffrage - or would you rather those be taken away as well? The "vast" majority of Americans may be like you (though I think you overstate that fact) - but that does not mean it's right. "What's popular is not always right." I wish you were oppressed for a majority of your life so you know what these kids are going through - the tormenting - bullying - even physical attacks - not to mention the internal suffering they are going through trying to figure out how and why they feel the way they do. It's not fair to them that people like you have rule over their life and condone the hell they must live through, because last I checked - them being gay/lesbian/bi/transgendered has not even the slightest affect on you living your life... and spewing your hatred.
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Posted By: CougTeacher @ 04/03/2009 5:08:32 PM
I read this about twenty minutes ago...tried to forget all of the hurtful things that you wrote, and then decided that I could not move on until i commented on the terrible things that you have said.
It makes me so depressed about humankind that people could even think something like this. Maybe I was born too early and this archaic and ignorant kind of thinking simply has not died out yet. I am incredibly hurt by comments like this. Maybe you consider me inhuman for being a homosexual, but what you say, seemingly without consequence on an internet comment forum, is thoughtless. How could you say things like this about another human being? You have no more right to say this than I have to say that you are perverse for any of your unique characteristics. You have a right to be who you want to be, but you do not have the right to say that my life is perverse. I have a right to be who I want to be. It doesn't affect you in any way except for the irrational fear which it has apparently stirred in your mind.
Just remember that you are no more special than anyone else on this earth. We all have a right to our own lives, especially if it doesn't harm anyone else. I cause no harm to anyone else through my identification as a homosexual...but your comments hurt me and many others who have read your hateful posts.-
Posted By: TakeshiKovacs @ 04/05/2009 11:12:15 PM
>>You have no more right to say this than I have to say that you are perverse for any of your unique characteristics. You >>have a right to be who you want to be, but you do not have the right to say that my life is perverse.
What part of the First Amendment do you not understand? Everyone has the right to say just about anything they want. -
Posted By: TakeshiKovacs @ 04/05/2009 5:53:13 PM
>>You have no more right to say this than I have to say that you are perverse for any of your unique characteristics. You >>have a right to be who you want to be, but you do not have the right to say that my life is perverse.
What part of the First Amendment do you not understand? Everyone has the right to say just about anything they want. -
Posted By: Arbiter @ 04/04/2009 6:05:34 AM
My word, CougT, your post is so heartfelt and well articulated I could feel your angst all the way from my computer screen to my soul. It is a sad state of affair that some people unwarranted fear of homosexuals causes them to lash out with such unconditional hate. But I hope you can find it in yourself to realize that comments coming from people like WINR is a heavily biased form of thinking and you giving it any kind of measure is pointless. Some people are set in their ways so all that can be done is live your life the way you want to. I know, that sucks doesn't it, but cest la vie, Coug, cest la vie.
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Posted By: orchestraofbanjos @ 04/04/2009 10:48:11 AM
Homosexuality means that you love someone of your own sex. Keyword: love. Love is perverted? If that's the way you see it, shame on you.
Children are out there killing themselves because these issues aren't being adressed. Why aren't they being adressed? Because of homophobia. And so I say to any homophobic, and racist, or any person that descriminates against any group: You are a murderer. And that's all there is to it. -
Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/03/2009 1:51:16 PM
I would not go into a story about your religion trying to reach out to kids through programs and say things like "Why are we condoning being part of a cult? Why are we trying to make it seem normal?"
I do not go into a story about your lifestyle and say "Why are we condoning being close-minded bigots? Why are we tyring to make that seem normal?"
I do not do these things because it's not something I need to take the time to do. Why do you feel that you need to come in here, spouting off your hatred, showing your backwater upbringing and ignorance, when this story, honestly has nothing to do with you?
Notice that we are not the ones concerned with your sex life. Maybe your fixation on same-sex relations is your own perversion? Maybe you need to find a new hobby. But what you don't need to do is come in here shooting off hate. Take it to your local church, local bar, or whatever else, but get it out of here.-
Posted By: WrongIsNotRight @ 04/03/2009 4:21:16 PM
Justso,
So typical ... me being normal is now considered hatred? BWHHAAHAHAHA DUH. So let met get this straight ... excuse the pun ... ROTFL Now you are the normal one ... you are for homosexual activities and you are the normal one? ROTFL So let me get this straight ... excuse the pun ... I am obsessed about sex when you are trying to convince me and the world that Homosexual activities are normal when the vast, vast majority of the world does not practice it and is against it? BWHAHHAAH Man are you screwed up!
You are like a criminal who commits a crime and you try to make the person who tells on you ... feel guilty or make them appear to be a criminal ... you even call them a snitch! ROTFL Nice try ... it ain't workin honey..-
Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/04/2009 1:38:08 AM
I would not consider me normal. I have double jointed fingers, and horrible vision in my right eye, but my left eye is actually pretty good. I also like sleeping with another man.
But then, I wouldn't say you are normal either. You spend your day on here telling people how to live, and that we must accept your way of thinking because it is the only way to do it. You fixate on the sex lives of other people as if they are forcing you to participate. You talk about my sex life far more than I do. And yet, having not mentioned sex until now, I'm the pervert.
You are obessed with use "perverting your children," and honestly, I could care less about your children. They aren't mine to worry about. See, that's the difference between me, and you. And really you, and normal people. I don't bother worrying about things that have no effect on me, on my life. But you, you obsess over it.
You also type your laugh as bwahahahaah, continuously, which really is not normal.
You also seem to get some weird, dare I say "perverse" pleasure out of harrasing people who really have nothing to do with your time. And yes, any time someone repeatedly calls me perverted and tries to interfere with my life when they have no business doing so, I do consider that harrassment, which would have to require some hate. And since it's not just me, but an entire population of people, I'd also call you bigotted.
If you don't like us, remove your happy behind from our boards and don't worry about us. Unless your obsession with our sex lives is so overwhelming that you just can't help yourself. -
Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/03/2009 5:26:11 PM
"So typical ... me being normal is now considered hatred?"
No, your insane ranting about others whose lives do not affect you is hatred. You're a bigot, plain and simple. You are everything that is wrong with our society, all wrapped up in one big inbred bundle. -
Posted By: Vigilance @ 04/03/2009 4:31:25 PM
You clearly don't care that your mockery and judgements might leave psychological scars on the subject of this article. I can only hope that this woman and her mother have enough sense to stay far, far away from the likes of you.
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Posted By: Romare @ 04/03/2009 1:49:40 PM
Perversion? You are grossly misinformed. Gay people are no more perverted than people of other races. They are born that way. It is people like you that are hurting others and denying them their rights. This is anti-American and prejudice at its worst.
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Posted By: WrongIsNotRight @ 04/03/2009 3:51:39 PM
HAHAHAHHAHA ... so let me get this straight ... excuse the pun ... the Constitution had to define that homosexuality is not peverted but okay? DUH A homosexual is not born ... homosexual. You are born black, white, oriental, short, tall. Unless raped, a homosexual chooses every sex partner. Get a clue.
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Posted By: Kindral @ 04/03/2009 6:20:32 PM
Yes. Homosexuals choose their partners. What they DON'T choose are the base desires they grow up with. I truly believe that. I believe those are not chooseable, just like whether or not you have a peanut allergy. Its something you're born with. Why should anyone put a damper on their desires and force themselves to be something they are not just to appease close minded haters?
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Posted By: tmsassan @ 04/03/2009 2:05:38 PM
@RightIsAlwaysWrong - A couple facts sweetie... gay individuals are a common feature of all higher Mammalia (hence, being homosexual is both natural and normal). Genetic studies of sexual orientation reveal that there are both genetic and environmental components to being gay, genetic being predominant and the environmental factors being biologic but not genetic (hence, being gay is not a choice). Population studies indicate that societies with gay members are more 'fit'than those without (so, not only being gay is good for them, it's good to have gay friends, family memebers, and neighbors). I see that you love to throw out the word 'perversion', which is basically another way of saying 'something I don't like'. Do you think anyone that's gay cares what you think? does anyone think your personal morality is better than theirs? I certainly don't think that people that stand on a fatally flawed moral high horse have any morals at all. Get real, and get some help with all that hate you carry around.
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Posted By: WrongIsNotRight @ 04/03/2009 3:48:28 PM
Honey,
Your first fatal flaw ... obviously, you do care or you would not have responded ;)
You can try to use any unproven scientific data that you want honey. None of the data that you have mentioned has ever been proven. But, scientifically speaking ... there are two genders ... male and female ... each with their own sex organs ... and neither is made to go "in" the "out". ;) But, hey nice try to rationalize perversion ... as we all have heard and seen arguments from your kind before a typical weak response generated by a pervert or enabler of perversion ... in other words par for the perverted course ... excuse the pun :)
Nothing wrong with being on a high horse. Your problem is that you know yourself ... and you cannot stay on the "high horse". Remember, even a hypocrite can preach the Word. If the hypocrite does not practice the Word that does not make the Word wrong that makes the hypocrite wrong :)
HMMMMMMM I never mentioned hate you did! Then again those who hate the truth usually are the haters! Is that you?
Remember honey, being against perversion is not hate ... it is being an adult unlike you.-
Posted By: Kindral @ 04/03/2009 6:17:08 PM
"Remember honey, being against perversion is not hate ... it is being an adult unlike you."
Whats more perverse? Two people loving each other regardless of what sex they are? I see nothing perverse in that. Why are you so focused on the sexual side of homosexuality? -
Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/03/2009 5:28:07 PM
Nice case of projection there, Cletus.
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Posted By: joe_mama @ 04/03/2009 3:54:22 PM
"Remember honey, being against perversion is not hate ... it is being an adult unlike you."
Perhaps, but recognizing that perversion is in the eyes of the beholder, and that calling something "perverse" implies hatred, demonstrates that one has (un)common sense....unlike you.
Love,
JM
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Posted By: CougTeacher @ 04/03/2009 5:31:05 PM
I don't think you understand how hurtful your comments are. You could not possibly put yourself in the shoes of the people you are harassing. It is hard for me to accept that I live in a society where someone can think and say things that attack a group of people for who they are. I try to put comments like yours out of my mind, but yours was especially painful for me to read as a fellow human being with the same feelings and emotions as anyone.
Another side issue that I would like to point out is that homosexuality is not all about sex. The argument against homosexuality seems to be about the fact that the physical act is perverted. And while it comes with the territory, like any committed and loving relationship, I am EMOTIONALLY and SPIRITUALLY attracted to men. Do not pass judgments about me with the limited amount of experience and knowledge that you have.
Please try to meet a real gay person...it would be an enlightening experience for you. -
Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/03/2009 5:24:22 PM
"We need to stand up against homosexuality. It is perverted, wrong and should not be condoned. "
We need to stand up against bigots. You are perverted, wrong, and should not be condoned. -
Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/03/2009 5:23:44 PM
How is homosexuality wrong?
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Posted By: dabarth @ 04/03/2009 3:34:55 PM
WINR, try this on for size: (some advice spewed by your brethren at the LGBTQ community) "Go away, we do not want you here. You are worthless; repent your evil ways before the judgment day." How do YOU like it?
I respect your right to have crazy thoughts. I do not respect your desire to enforce them on me. I only ask for reciprocity.
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Posted By: jediiorio @ 04/06/2009 10:14:03 AM
Vassar College in Poughkeepsie, NY is a great place for LGBT! Actually, it's a great school for almost anyone. Beautiful campus, highly ranked, gorgeous chapel (with both Jewish and Christian services). While most of the student population leans toward the left, there are still a decent number of moderates and conservatives (though, I will say that even those students who fall under the "conservative" heading tend to sway a bit more liberal when it comes to things like LGBT and other minority issues). A super cool school that tries to provide a welcoming home for all its students!
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Posted By: Fallenwish43 @ 04/06/2009 10:13:48 AM
Ms. Halpert, thank you for loving your daughter and accepting her for exactly who she is. She is going to be just fine, no matter where she goes in this world, because she has a mother who will always be there for her. THANK YOU!
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Posted By: ColoMtnWoman @ 04/04/2009 10:39:19 PM
The only perversion I see here is the perversion of the Christian religion by bigots. It's people like you that make people like me become atheists...
"God, please protect me from your followers."-
Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/05/2009 4:38:27 PM
Christians,however,do not kill atheists.[as Chris Hitchens will instantly allow].
Islam,on the other hand.......
If ''God'' is to ''protect you from His followers'' I would not suggest hanging around any large buildings such as those typical of the World Trade Center or Pentagon-type construction any time soon. Of course, these ''followers'' who will seek to incinerate everyone around and inside ,caring not if there are gays or other ''infidels'' within, will probably not be ''Christian'' in makeup..............[and as Mumbai has proven, it is not safe to even be a Hindu these days].
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Posted By: ColoMtnWoman @ 04/04/2009 10:38:50 PM
The only perversion I see here is the perversion of the Christian religion by bigots. It's people like you that make people like me become atheists...
"God, please protect me from your followers."
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Posted By: Cavallino_Rapante @ 04/04/2009 7:09:34 PM
Sorry, I"m not buying this crap....last time I went to a college campus, ANY college campus, it was 'gay friendly'. They all are, unless the school was Theological in nature. Mr. Lee Holmes has brought-up some excellent points - the 'Political Correctness' that allowed Gays to be 'open' on-campus has morphed into the nu-fascism of anti-conservative intolerance, and has turned a blind-eye to the very-real threat of Radical Islam. One would ask all of the Homosexual 'deep thinkers' out there which is more dangerous ground - an American College Campus, or an Iranian neighborhood? They don't drag you to prison and execute you by stoning or hanging for being gay on ANY campus in the US, but a gay wouldn't last five minutes in Saudi Arabia. Yet Muslims often get a pass among Liberals, ignoring the fact that Muslim beilefs completely counter the ideals of social and sexual tolerance and acceptance that the Left espouses.
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Posted By: chrissytee @ 04/03/2009 7:44:39 PM
USC has a great LGBT community, including a dorm floor specifically for LGBT students and their allies :)
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/04/2009 5:20:58 PM
It also has less salutory aspects.
In August of 2008, The Simon Wiesenthal Center and a group headed by conservative Jewish activist David Horowitz met with USCs Chancellor and Provost [a Mr C.L. Niklias] to discuss a violent ''Hadith'' [or Islamic religious directive] issued by the universities Muslim Student Association on its website,which had heretofore been involved with anti-Semitic violence at U /San Francisco,UC Irvine,and UC Berkeley. Jews were to be ''killed''. Showing unusual backbone,the USC managerial establishment moved to boot the offending hadith,with Horowitz accurately observing that American universities all across the nation that have MSA groups retain this hadith. This qued the usual Muslim student whining over ''oppression'' without their bothering to acknowlage that this hadith advocated genocide aimed at Jews,which make up a sizable portion of USCs student body. More of this ''tolerance''deal once again rearing its head,selective in its application.
www.jihadwatch.com Aug.27,2008
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 4:07:51 PM
I always get a kick out of loving,tolerant gays and their allies using hate and intolerance in order to get their points across.
FIRE [Foundation for Individual Rights In Education] observes that it is not gays who are the subject of the most harassment at centers of higher learning. It is conservative Christians. Indeed,at places like Cornell,Columbia [mentioned in the above article],UC Irvine,Berkeley,U/Washington and many others,GLTBs never had it so good.
Yet harassment of conservative individual students and groups is so acute,it has reached far enough into the faculty area with some of these inventing pre-planned ''outrages'' in order to score ideological points against these conservative students. Cases in point were a phony '' lynching noose'' placed by a Columbia black female professor on her door in order to whip up hatred against these students and groups [she later confessed], timed to coincide with a visit by prominant conservative David Horowitz who was accorded death threats and a mini-riot upon his arrival, and ''racist,sexist ''e-mails that were self-sent by a U South Carolina professor to her own computer which she blamed on ''campus conservatives''.[confession here as well]. Washingtons Spokane Community College is seeking the expulsion of pro-life students in order to ''Stop The Hate'' though not a single instance of criminal or illegal activity by the pro-life students triggered the expulsion hearing,now being defrayed by a FIRE lawsuit against the college. Many more oddball hijinks by universities and colleges nationwide that seek to muzzle free speech and conduct campaigns against conservative student individuals and groups from the east coast to the west may be found here:
www.thefire.org-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 04/03/2009 4:29:45 PM
So start a damn movement, Lee. I've not seen many LGBT advocates call for the killing of all conservative Christians. The reverse is not true.
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 5:45:03 PM
Thats only because you are not paying attention. Radical gay organizations including ACT-UP have called for precisely this,indeed,naming as a chief target [placed inside of a rifles bullseye on protest signs],Catholic Cardinal John O'Connor during an especially combative period between the two groups,that culminated in the St Patricks riot in NYC in 1989 and 1992 where ACT-UP and QUEER NATION members fought inside and outside of the church with police,losing any and all goodwill with the people of New York over these antics ,generating bipartisan condemnation from Democrat Cuomo and Republicans Pataki and Guliani. These people acted like Nazis. Not ''loving and tolerant''. Their nation-wide ''Stop The Church''campaign was based on terror,intimidation,and criminal activity. Do not deign to hand me even a mote of garbage that would suggest that gays act any differant than other humans in the area of ideological confrontation based upon held prejudices. Gays are,after all,human. Then too,I have no need to ''start'' my own ''group''when I have the fine offices of FIRE,The Pacific Justice Institute,Sir Thomas More,and other libertarian free speech organizations that focus upon unconstitutional actions as played out in American academia.
The New York Times Apr.03,2009:''PBS To Pull ACT-UP Film''. [as you will see,there are still many in NYC who harbour anger at radical gays who used Brownshirt,as opposed to Kingsian or Gandhian tactics in dealing with Christian churches].-
Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/04/2009 1:04:50 AM
Lee,
Surely you are not saying that all gay people act the same way as those mentioned in the two groups you cited? I would not say that all blacks behaved the way that Malcom X or the Black Panthers did. I would not say that all religious people act the same as those who bomb abortion clinics or those who belong to the West Borough Baptists do. You are making huge generalities. While vigilgance did say that he does not see many LGBT advocates calling for the killing of all conservative Christians, you seem to have missed the word "many."
I'm wondering what a study, done by someone other than FIRE, or done by a gay advocacy group would have to say about the ratio of harrasment?-
Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/04/2009 3:41:48 PM
Nope. I am saying,however,that their anger is misdirected. You forget that your scenario cuts both ways. Miniscule outrages by the Fred Phelps,for instance,do not create a condition whereby ''all'' Protestants or ''all'' Catholics are gay-bashing or intolerant. This is to say that there have been aspects of gay activism in its recent past that have proven to be as intolerant as the intolerant condition these were combating,creating,as I previously observed,a ''zero-sum condition'' winning no friends and influencing very few.
Obviously,Islam creates new problems as I discussed,with gays unsure of how to deal with this rising threat,for they are not the ''lilywhite Bible thumping Wyoming redneck'' of usual stereotype,the ''soft target'' I have heretofore mentioned. Gays are being beaten,killed and terrorized by Islamics in this nation and other western countries which have growing Muslim populations in increasing numbers. The ridicule gays pass onto ''fundies'' which largely do not act beyond verbage,[gay activists well knowing this] is not shared by the Islamic,despite the fact that his religion openly advocates violent opposition to homosexuality. Then too, [and you may look here at the 2005 study by the Center for Religious Freedom], we are beginning to see where attacks on gays are propelled solely by religious motivation. Less [or unknown religious motivation ] among Christian and Jewish sects,but rising among Islam as befits a nation where their numbers are increasing. In due time,gays will have to consider the fact that the enemy of ''tolerance'' lay not in the older targets of the ''Falwell'' or ''Robertson'',but in the new American religion that will not countenance compromise with what these see as ''unclean'', ''unfaithful'' ''infidel''.
www.freedomhouse.org/religion The Center for Religious Freedom Apr.2005 ''American Islam And Homosexuality''-
Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/04/2009 4:16:12 PM
Lee,
I must admit more confusion on my part. What I'm getting from this post, and I may be misinterpreting it, is that Islam will not be dealt with with peace and conversation, which is the tact we'd prefer to use with religious instituties that we've had to deal with in the past. (With the exception of the cases that you'd pointed out in other posts.)
As they are not going to be willing to back down, or compromise, that just leaves us with a relgious group that would embrace violence to "take care of" homosexuals. If talking won't work, that leaves us with two alternatives, in my mind. We either back down ourselves, continuing to let another group treat as us second class citizens, or we embrace the tactics of groups like ACTUP, and that will only lead to a further cycle of violence.
Am I missing something, because it seems to me that in cases like these, we would need more extreme measures if, for nothing else, than to defend ourselves.
Now, as for the fixation that we have on Christians, instead of on Muslims, it is because Muslims do not play a large part in getting laws made in this country, and still not have a very large voice of their own here. So, while the more militant of there groups is certainly to be feared, I fear the Christian churches far more. They have a much larger voice, and much more power to make sure that things happen there way. They preach that we are abominations, and that we will ruin this country, and they do it on public air waves. They are much more "In your face" with their tactics.-
Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/04/2009 4:55:36 PM
These instances of Islam acting out of animus towards the ''infidel'' [that includes gays] are creating confusion on how best to deal with them. Great Britain offers up a few examples reaching towards solution that include the deportation of the more radical Imams. Other nations including Holland,France,Germany Denmark and Belgium [who are confronting anti-gay homophobia as advanced by the Mosque] are wrestling with solutions of their own that include the British policy.
In the US,the solution to the problem posed by radical Islam must be that ''sunlight remains the best disinfectant''. These should be exposed for their intolerance,CAIR whining shoved aside,and law enforcement investigations and prosecutions carried out where and when necessary,as displayed in the 1994 Branch Davidian confrontation at Waco [which while violent,did not spread into a more general uprising] and the 2008 closure by federal authorities of the splinter Mormon polygamist group in Texas. In other words,allow the cops to do their jobs,assisting these not with ''ACT-UP''outrages,but with measured advocacy involvement by gay organizations that seek to educate law enforcement on the threat to their communities, an effective device from the black civil rights period.
Then too, the idea that the ''Christian Church''acts as government overseer is a false canard,usually played by the paranoid, who vest everything in the already lost clout of the ''Moral Majority'' which is neither moral,nor a majority. Gays remain focused on the diminshed power to the enemy in front of them,ignoring the threat of the one moving towards them,like Stonewall Jacksons flank attack at Chancellorsville,from the rear. For not only ''gays''are going to be impacted by this twisted reading of Islam,but all Americans. You will have already observed where conservative Christians died right alongside of gays on 9/11.
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Posted By: stephenprestwood @ 04/03/2009 6:58:16 PM
Yes, fundamentalist religion is the real issue here. LGBT people are just one more challenge to a perversion of religion that has been tolerated in this country for far too long. It might be easy to confuse people about evolution since we can't observe a million years of change in our brief lifespans, but gay people are living breathing functioning citizens of our country right now. It is hard to deny them, especially when they just won't shut up! Sadly for many of you naive pseudo-Bible scholars, you don't understand that just a few verses after the often trotted out "abomination" statement in Leviticus condemning men sleeping with men, is another statement that forbids eating shellfish that calls it an "abomination". Hmmm, I guess you all just selectively choose which part of the Bible is God's so-called "will".... At least I'm pretty sure I've never seen any concern on all the Christians' faces as they line up for the buffet at Red Lobster every Friday evening. For all of you bigots who think that there is something inherently wrong with being gay, I'm sorry to say you are just plain wrong and no scientific evidence supports your view. I know you've invested all your energy in hating LGBT people all these years and used it as a crutch to make you feel better about your own miserable life, but too bad, you're just going to have to get over it. And the more you scream and holler and make outrageous untrue statements about gay people, the more you help the cause for legislative changes ensuring equal rights. They other thing you may not realize is that a lot of straight people are on the side of the gays. I mean certainly you didn't think that gay people make up 48% of the population of California, even though Prop 8 only passed 52 to 48 percent. Also, apparently you don't understand our Constitution or a representative democracy. Hint: it doesn't mean "mob rule allowed" or "rule by latest flawed opinion poll". The courts are there to protect the minority against the evils of the majority and make sure we maintain a civil society even though so many of you apparently are very uncivilized in your views.
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 7:26:57 PM
Not really.
For not once in your screed did you mention Islam. Next,you posit an ad hominum theory unfactual in its basis,and dishonest in its application,both true hallmarks of intolerance towards others. My own statements for example, are based upon factual occurance as observed by media,law enforcement,legal organizations,the platforms of the religions involved in the debate themselves,and of course,gays. It is not ''hatred'' to observe that radical gays act out of animus or intolerance towards those they see as intolerant themselves,creating a zero-sum condition. The history of ACT-UP and QUEER NATION clearly proves this. Further,I will whip you in spades every time discussion of ''the Constitution'' comes up. In addition,your ignorance of this Judeo/Christian Bible is astounding,for the prohibitions against eating shellfish,for one example,apply to Jews. Not Christian Gentiles. Those scriptural laws that Jesus retained,do not cover such things as ''shellfish''.Thus Christians can fill up on shrimp at the buffet and not have to answer for it on Sunday. They do cover what is acceptable in bonds of marriage and who will compose such a relationship. Thus,while America is organized on a secular basis,it does not forbid religious belief systems that find expression at the ballot box. Expressions that comport with their own beliefs. This deal boils down to a rather hysterical missive, again,both unfactual and dishonest as well as misinformed,all at once. I have no dog to hunt here. Gays may go their way. Yet those who hold opposition to their tenets as expressed in a law-abiding or otherwise peaceful fashion are possessed of rights that are to be respected in this nation under the very constitution that you quote.There is nothing wrong with being ''inherently'' gay. There is something wrong however,in being inherently dishonest in defending such a position.-
Posted By: stephenprestwood @ 04/03/2009 7:41:50 PM
Lee you are pathetic. So you think by citing a few examples about two of the most radical groups in the Gay rights movement that you somehow invalidate the basic tenents of their call for justice and equality. Did violent actions by the Black Panthers invalidate the Civil Rights movement? No, of course not! You are the one who apparently doesn't understand logic or how to formulate a defensible argument. Furthermore, ACT-UP and QueerNation are pretty much historical footnotes in the Gay Rights movement at this point. It's a bit more grassroots these days. We have Gay-Straight Alliances in High Schools all over the country. The movement has evolved, thanks in part to the struggles and sacrifices of activists, including many radicals, during the early days of the AIDS pandemic.
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 7:58:29 PM
Fortunately,this is a matter of opinion. What is more open to discussion is your own dishonesty as it applies to Christian sects [but not those of Islam. We have already explored gay cowardice in this area of their social activism]. You confuse ''struggle'' with lawlessness,criminality and anti-religious bigotry. A ''nation of laws'' has no place for these,and ACTUP was justly dealt with for their outrages. Acting stupid and ignorant and violent is no ''sacrifice'' unless it be of their ability to become incarcerated for these former actions.
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Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/04/2009 1:24:38 AM
I'm still reading through this board trying to find talk of Islam anywhere. I'm confused on how they keep getting brought up in your posts?
More than that, you seem to completely overlook that amount of religious violence that takes place in this country. Abortion clinc bombings and targeting doctors through those, where the attackers sign the notes "The Army of God."
There was a guy in Florida a few years back who planned to bomb gay bars, abortion clinics and any church that he felt hadn't been hard enough on gays and abortionists. And while yes, he is only one man, this was hardly an isolated case. Hence the reason why there are hate crimes on the books.
The Institute for Religious Tolerance did a study based off of an idea that was being proposed by some Conservative Christians. The idea was that non-religious people were trying to exterminate Christians in North America, and that's why there have been so many church shootings in the last year.
According to the study (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chu_viol.htm), they found that most of the people killed in church shootings were conservative Protestants, most of the shooters were also Protestants,and that there had actually only been 18 murders in churches in the last 9 years, compared with a quarter million murders that took place away from churches during that same time span.
So not only were the Christians not targets, but those who were spreading this rumor were willing to try to cause panic and paranoia among their own people. Which would have been directed somewhere ,wouldn't it?
So, are you saying that Christians and other religious groups are the height of non-violence? If so, I would have to respectfully disagree.-
Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/04/2009 3:22:37 PM
You are confused because you are wearing,as most gays are,blinders,that only allow you to look in one direction.
Your website allows that not one single Christian sect in this nation save radical splinters that would include Rev. Phelps ministry advocates violence aimed at gays. Yet Islam in its totality, routinely not simply advocates,but orders its adherents to oppose gays with violence. Here, in America,among other nations.
The al-Farouq Mosque in Brooklyn New York, is one of the nations largest and is extremely well-funded by the Saudi Arabians. The Center for Religious Freedom [ co-founded by Eleanor Roosevelt and now headed by former Clinton CIA chief James Woolsey], observes that this is only one of over 400 American mosques in major American cities from LA to NYC [not including Nation of Islam centers that are also gay-intolerant, that number at least this many], which allow its adherents to kill homosexuals,based on Quranic interpretation by Imams,and by the over 200 Saudi-published tracts now used in American mosques that allow this condition.
'' The Law allows you to kill him,[the homosexual] and take his belongings '' [also translated as ''money''].
al-Farouq Mosque,Apr.2005
A LEXIS-NEXXIS search however,fails to find even one instance where gay rights organizations mustered up enough outrage to confront the Imams for spreading this portion of their theology. Thus these are the ''hard targets'',referred to in an earlier post,that gays eschew,as does the media,out of fear.[for unruly Islamics will act, and without remorse, as we have seen with attacks on Jewish studies centers in Seattle that left eight dead,two teenaged girls in Houston for becoming ''too westernized'',and another woman in Buffalo,NY who was beheaded by her estranged husband]. All are adherents of the fast-growing Wahhabist sect of Islam. The US State Dept [Mar.2007] estimates that over 80% of American mosques in all cities are funded by Saudi Arabia along Wahhabist dogmatic lines solely,to the exclusion of any interpretation of Islam that could be seen as ''gay-affirming''.Every single last tract or book published for American mosques allows the Muslim to mete out violence upon gays.
It is thus disingenous to focus upon isolated incident [ even allowing that the above Islamic outrages fit this catagory],while nevertheless ignoring the fact that violent opposition to homosexuality is a basic tenet of the religions whole-cloth. This problem will only become worse with the passing of time.
The Washington Blade [gay publication] Oct 04,2008: ''Gay Man Beaten In New DC Muslim Bias Attack'' [ ''new'' due to the fact that two other gays were beaten by Muslims only weeks earlier].
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Posted By: leitners @ 04/03/2009 7:03:47 PM
I am an evangelical Christian and I want you to know God loves you
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Posted By: stephenprestwood @ 04/03/2009 7:22:54 PM
You are yet another arrogant self-absorbed pseudo-Christian. I already know God loves me. How patronizing and simple-minded. I was raised a Christian and attend a Christian church weekly, but I doubt you'd find it very familiar since our ministers don't advocate hate or ignorance and we accept people of all sexual orientations. Another myth the US media likes to portray is that somehow Evangelicals are more religious, just because their beliefs deviate more from scientific theory and facts. This misunderstanding of God and divinity is just another legacy of the past 30 years while we've had superstitious zealots running the country. I guess we had to look at ourselves in the mirror with Al Qaeda before we understood that religios intolerance is really dangerous regardless of its origins.
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 8:05:56 PM
If so,then you have learned nothing. I was unaware that Jesus taught arrogance,hubris, moral rectitude as dealt in a high-handed fashion.[let alone dishonesty and insult]. Your Church ''god'' must be closer to a Johnny Rotten than a Jesus Christ. You also forget that Obama,being opposed to gay marriage,must be one of these ''zealots'' as well..........
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Posted By: stephenprestwood @ 04/03/2009 8:28:24 PM
Thanks for proving my point. Your mind is even closed to other Christian interpretations of the Bible and scripture. And you are wrong concerning the Old Testament only applying to Jews. At least in terms of how major Protestant denominations have interpreted the scriptures for centuries, where the New Testament is considered a fulfilllment of God's covenant as expressed in the Old Testament. Why do you think the Old Testament is still part of the Bible? Of course, I am not a Bible literalist so I don't really find any of this interesting or relevant; but, it is true that religious opponents to equal rights for LGBT people will often quote from the Old Testament, just as they did in this cooment blog. And there is nothing that Jesus says in regards to same-sex sexual orientation in the New Testament, But again, I don't consider the Bible the last word on what's important and true in the universe.
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 8:46:30 PM
You are in error. In no place in the NT does Jesus advocate that Hebrew [Mosaic] Law other than the Ten Commandments that he personally sets forth in MATTHEW and MARK be applied to Gentiles. You have the right to create your own matchbook Invent-A-Gawd [trademark] You do not have the right to abridge the belief systems of others based upon their held faith that yes,the Bible,is the ''last word'' for these.[and here,this device states that a ''male and female'' and not a man/man or woman/woman,be joined in marriage]. To defeat this thought process,you must first defeat the Bill of Rights,and gays will not be accomplishing this any time soon. Not for ''marriage'' and not for anything else either.[another prime reason why this nation has made this a states rights deal altogether].
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Posted By: crj2002 @ 04/03/2009 4:34:50 PM
"Amen"
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Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/04/2009 12:57:10 AM
Lee,
You seem fairly knowledgeable about this group, and looking over the webpage, they seem like they have good intentions. But I am wondering, how many cases have they filed, and how many have they just helped out with? How many cases have they won and lost?-
Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/04/2009 4:34:32 PM
FIRES archives indicate that this is the most effective opponant of campus free -speech abridgement and anti-religious[Christian,with a few Jewish examples] directive in the nation. It does not simply win cases literally whenever filed,but even a letter sent by this organization to college/university trustees,chancellors,or individual professors is handy enough to get the college to back down from what are plainly unconstitutional methods carried out on a selective basis by universities and colleges against those deemed ''conservative'' or ''Christian''. Its greatest victory was against a University of Delaware ''thought code'' which forced its students to ''sign ze paper'' indicating that they would be subject to ideological indoctrination created by the university solely,a gross affront to Ist Amendment guarantees as already set down in the 1969 DES MOINES USSC decision which maintained that ''rights do not stop at the schoolhouse doors''. FIRE forced U/Delaware to scrap the program,and created a documentary film on the controversy that is shown to education professionals. What FIRE boils down to thusly,is that ''you play ball fairly with all groups,or we will see you in court and will also see to it that your federal funding is stripped''. This alone is usually enough to get the wannabe Orwells moving in the right direction. FIRE is replete with civil liberties lawyers and other free speech advocates that lean towards creating ,ironically in this day and age,an atmosphere whereby the conservative,Jewish,or Christian student is treated fairly on his or hers campus,where ''tolerance'' and ''acceptance'' have become cheap,tinny expressions uttered by the my-way-or-the-highway hypocrite.
''When it comes to this, I should prefer moving to another country. Russia perhaps,where they make no pretense at loving liberty,and where despotism can be taken pure,without the base alloy of hypocrisy''
Abraham Lincoln
FIRES efforts are also discussed here:
www.volokh.com The VOLOKH Conspiracy.[a discussion board and clearinghouse of legal issues of the day by jurists,lawyers,clerks and others in the legal community].
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Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/03/2009 5:29:48 PM
"FIRE [Foundation for Individual Rights In Education] observes that it is not gays who are the subject of the most harassment at centers of higher learning. It is conservative Christians. "
Then stop trying to take away the rights of others to satisfy the demands of your hate cult.
See? Easy.-
Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 6:20:30 PM
Then too, what ''rights'' am I ''taking away'' from gays?
Elaborate.-
Posted By: leftypower @ 04/03/2009 8:31:51 PM
The right for me to serve my country in the military.
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 8:35:53 PM
I am not adding this right. This is for the Defense Dept and the Commander-in-Chief to decide.
Again.
Elaborate.-
Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/04/2009 12:55:08 AM
Ok, let's look at some of the rights we are being denied by not having equality in marriage.
If my partner is in the hospital, dying, I can be barred from standing by his side. If your wife is in the same condition, that will not happen to you, outside of the times when they need to perform treatment.
If my partner dies, his family can force me out of the house that we bought, and the home that we built together.
If my partner dies, I have no right to government benefits that would be paid out.
And while no, you cannot file taxes with your sister, you can still get married to almost any other female and have that option. I cannot marry any other male to have that option. I cannot marry a female because it would be an empty, loveless marriage, or at least lacking the love that a married couple should have.
All of these things are true, all of these things are things that I have to worry about every day. All of these, and someting like 1000 other rights (if you really want to know, break away from thefire.org and go google it) are being denied me by those who would stop me from marrying my partner.-
Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/04/2009 3:58:47 PM
This is a condition depending upon state residency as gays are otherwise afforded right and you probably already know this. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Oregon,Washington,California,New York,Iowa,Vermont, and others allow all of the rights save the name of ''marriage''[and even here this is changing] that you demand. Indeed Civil Union already allows property and benefits rights,tax revenue sharing,stock portfolio dividend,death benefits,funeral rights, and other instruments as enjoyed by the hetero couple,and with the GLTB naming his or hers partner as executor of estate, no ''family'' can ''force you out of the house that you bought''. This could have been a useful ideological trump card to play at one time in gay rights history. No longer. State after state is moving to afford gays these benefits and rights,with Iowa,being only the most recent. 23 states are considering bills that would allow more rights in these areas, focusing only upon the colliquial differance between ''union'' and ''marriage''. More here:
The Human Rights Campaign www.hrc.org ''Gay Rights/Benefits,By-State''[ as of Apr.2009].
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Posted By: leftypower @ 04/03/2009 8:31:00 PM
The right to marry whoever I want. You have that right.
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 8:37:13 PM
No I do not. There are limits. I cannot marry my sister for instance[ nor would want to].
This condition is set forth my the individual states,as Iowa attested to today.
Again,
Elaborate
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Posted By: leftypower @ 04/03/2009 8:31:30 PM
The right to file my taxes, jointly as a married couple, with my husband.
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Posted By: leftypower @ 04/03/2009 8:22:49 PM
The Fire is for Flamers.
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 8:38:35 PM
Uh-uh. The FIRE is there to protect individual rights,no differant than those who advocate for gays such as GLSEN and others.
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 6:17:14 PM
An unfactual surmise on your portion Osama if only due to the fact that most of the outrages directed at conservative student groups on American campuses have exactly zero to do with gay issues. You may read the site itself which I have provided and observe that in FIREs newest cases,none have to do with homosexuality,or opposition thereof. Debate these issues on their merits. Not your own preconcieved notions which can and do allow prejudice to surface. We will observe here that gays,as with other student organizations and individuals that predominate among identity groups,have no business demanding ''tolerance''if they will not mete it out themselves. This was the very recipe of the King and Gandhian and South African movements. [indeed,two of Americas most intolerant public universities are San Francisco State and UC Berkeley, both quite gay affirming,both quite violent and anti-Semitic when dealing with other student groups they view as rightist or ''Zionist'' in makeup].
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Posted By: joe_mama @ 04/04/2009 7:17:42 AM
justsomeguy,
In the Iowa Gay Marraige story thread (cant' find it now, for some reason) you outlined your "best case scenario" about eventually getting to the Supreme Court.
I'd never considered that, thinking this would all be handled on a state-by-state basis.
At any rate, I'm curious (honestly):
Are you concerned that the Roberts/Alito appointments could be a potential setback? I don't know much about either, but to date they seem to be judging in favor what's in the books (beit law or precedent), which could bode well.
What do you think?
Love,
JM-
Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/04/2009 2:08:38 PM
JM,
I can't find the Iowa thread that was originally up anymore, either. I saw that they were having issues with getting the comments section to come up on it, so maybe they pulled it and reissued? I saw it was back in their headlines section this morning.
As for Roberts/Alito, I am a little worried, more so about Alito than I am about Roberts. Roberts has a history of taking gay rights cases (from the 80's admittedly, but still there), that caused quiet the stink when they were trying to confirm him. That's no guarantee that he will still follow the constitution strictly, or that the ruling would be in our favor, but it does make me more optimistic. And I will admit that Alito has suprised me a few times since he joined. Granted, my knowledge is limited to the few reviews of rulings that Slate does, and a little bit of reading aside from that.
Which ever way they vote, however, it will finally resolve the issue. And if they say that yeah, it's ok to deny equal marriage rights to homosexuals, we will of course start looking at other avenues. But I cannot see how they would reach said conclusion, if they base their decision strictly on what's in the constitution. And if more and more states start having rulings like Iowa handed down, in our favor, it may sway the opinion even more.
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Posted By: Bob A. @ 04/03/2009 9:29:39 PM
This is a great article for several reasons. How it concerns my wife and I follows:
We???re heterosexuals and so the LGBT lifestyle is not what we???re interested in. However, we???re definitely live-and-let-live types so LGBT citizens are fine by us.
We each own our own small businesses here in Tennessee and are going to relocate and expand, so we???ve been doing research to find a community, and hopefully an entire State, to our liking. In this economic climate, we think it???s likely that practically any community will be glad to have new businesses come in even if they???re small and won???t employ large numbers of people to begin with.
Although I suppose people will call us middle-aged (I???m 60 and my wife 51), we???re very active physically and are looking for a community with younger people as a large majority because those communities generally have more physical activities in which old geezers like us can become involved. And, of course, if one is able to associate with younger people it generally makes one younger--for real. So college towns are high on our list for many reasons.
Here???s something, though, that is more directly related to this timely article: At our ages, my wife and I have known many gay fellow citizens. I???ve known them in high school, in the Air Force, and in the workplace throughout my adulthood. And we???re both big-time tree huggers. We are highly active environmental advocates and are active in many social causes.
All of the gay friends we???ve made over the years have been the friendliest, most humorous and happy (must be while they???re called ???gay???) people we???ve known. And, coincidentally, they have all been in total agreement with our positions on nurturing nature, protecting wildlife, conservation, increasing the acreage set aside as wild and natural places, animal rights, and on and on.
Going strictly by compatibility of sociopolitical factors, we think gay people are basically . . . well, cool.
So the information in this article will greatly help our search for our new place in which to achieve our new goals. Armed with this information, we are much more likely to find a place where we???ll have fun, find culture, be able to associate with outgoing, truly happy people not out to force others into accepting their ways, and people who understand the greatness of Mother Nature and what she does for us when we care for her.
Thanks for the great article!-
Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/04/2009 12:37:06 AM
Bob A.
Not to come across as too much of a pitchman for Colorado, but I would highly recommend looking at the Boulder, CO area. They are very liberal, have a thriving gay populace, and are very friendly towards small business. It is a college town, and I don't know if that affects your thinking at all. Which isn't to say that it's all people in their late teens and twenties who live there, the age range is very diverse. It is very green, and it's right up next to the mountains. There are tons of outdoor activities, both in town and all around the outside of it. The people there are always wonderful when I go up. And anything that you can't find there you can drive just a short distance into Denver to find.
I don't know if that helps you, but it is a beautiful area, and certainly worth a look. Good luck to you and your wife on whatever you end up doing!
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Posted By: Bob A. @ 04/03/2009 9:36:45 PM
The replacement of an apostrophe by 3 question marks is very odd. What is up with that?
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Posted By: Bryan078 @ 04/03/2009 5:28:32 PM
Let me start by saying I don't care if someone is gay or not. That is their perogative, and as long as it doesn't negatively affect me then do what you do. I do care when society is expected to make certain not to step on the toes of every group that is in the minority. Minorities, whether it be race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc. should not receive additional rights, additional opportunities, additional benefits in any way, simply for being part of a minority group. Public institutions should never go out of there way to be a safe haven for any specific minority. Public institutions are for the public, and in the interest of the public they should make sure that first and foremost they are serving the majority. Those in the minority should adjust themselves to adapt, not the other way around.
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Posted By: leftypower @ 04/03/2009 8:24:37 PM
How is my marriage to my partner an additional right?
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Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/03/2009 9:11:59 PM
I can understand the confusion. I mean, we keep calling it "gay marriage." Which of course, translates to happy marriage. With the number of heteros who end up divorced, maybe they should also experience gay marriage.
But, I remember hearing about this with racial minorities. Whenever something came up about protection from being fired from a job, or being excluded from a club, someone would pipe up with "Hey, I can't have the protection as a white male! Why should this black/hispanic/female/etc. get extra protection? Why should they get extra benefits?"
My explanation always was and always is "Because you aren't be excluded because of how you were born, you're being excluded because you behave like a jerk (I use stronger language when I'm not worried about being moderated). So, you see, it's not really extra benefits, it's just protecting us the same way you're protected." It's an old argument, always given by those who "Don't really mind, but why should you get extras?"
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Posted By: mac101 @ 04/03/2009 8:55:42 PM
"Public institutions should never go out of there way to be a safe haven for any specific minority."
Yes.
They should. Just ask Matthew Shepard. Which, of course, you can't do, since he was a University of Wyoming student who died as a direct result of homophobia.
And you will find that there are whole sections of the Constitution dedicated to protecting the minority from the excesses of the majority.
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Posted By: DesertFox @ 04/03/2009 3:38:10 PM
The great divide in this discussion deals with the fact there will always be a large segment of the population that does not believe homosexuality comes from genetics but is a psychological choice. That being said, I find it incredibly disturbing that the average of children "coming out" is now 13 1/2!! Children at that age are in their formative years of puberty and can't possibly understand the entire scope of their sexuality. I think more attention should be spent analyzing the comment made by the author's daughter that she felt "weird and out of place" at a high school party. Teens at that age are still sorting out who they are...including their sexuality. I find it difficult to know a young teenage child can make life decisions that will have an effect on the rest of their lives when they have only begun to experience life.
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Posted By: justsomeguy @ 04/03/2009 9:05:50 PM
My sister figured out I was gay when I was six. I had the biggest crush on Luke Skywalker. And the male crushes just continued. Never felt anything towards a woman, never said I wanted to marry a woman, but damn, that luke skywalker does something to me.
She never mentioned it, until after I came out to her in my late teens. But she did point on the long track record I'd had with male crushes. -
Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/03/2009 5:30:30 PM
Whatever gave you the idea that it was a decision?
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Posted By: leftypower @ 04/03/2009 8:18:48 PM
Precisely! I knew long before I was 13. It wasn't a decision.
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Posted By: ahalps @ 04/03/2009 5:49:45 PM
Even though it is hard to imagine the scope of one's sexuality throughout their entire life, young teens can know they are LGBTQ much like young teens can know they are straight -- for some, it takes a lot of figuring out and for others it is just the way it is.
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Posted By: Kindral @ 04/03/2009 5:04:11 PM
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
And if you're one of those religious zealots that believes God's law is higher...
Well, did not God create us all in his image? For that matter...many religions believe in many different things. So how do we know which one is right? We don't. Everyone has their own opinion. To express your opinion is fine. To force it on someone is wrong. To place restrictions on an entire section of the populace because of it is downright criminal.-
Posted By: juice911 @ 04/03/2009 7:04:37 PM
hate the sin not the sinner
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Posted By: leftypower @ 04/03/2009 8:29:10 PM
hate the idiot's comments. defend their right to be an idiot.
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Posted By: juice911 @ 04/03/2009 7:13:58 PM
hate the sin love the sinner
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Posted By: WrongIsNotRight @ 04/03/2009 3:31:46 PM
What is amazing about those who do wrong such as those who are homosexualis ... is that when those who do wrong like perverting society as do homosexuals, and the homosexuals are corrected ... then it is ... hatred or bigotry?
Tolerance is not condoning wrong to be right. All of us should be very tolerant in knowing that many times people will not do the right things ... that people will sin and be perverted. We should not tolerate, support, condone or praise the perversion of our society and children. We should tolerate that a homosexual or any sinner will sin again because they are human. But, we should never praise a homosexual or any pervert for continuing to pervert society and our children.
Those who speak out against homosexuality are letting society know and our children know right from wrong. How do we know homosexuality is wrong? There are three "factors" against homosexuals ...
1. Society
2. Nature
3. God
Society is against homosexuality as shown by the votes of the people in the vast majority of states in the United States.
God ... "Man/woman lying with man/woman is an abomination ... punishable by death ... Leviticus. God is very smart ... he describes the act so homosexuals could not say the word "homosexuality" is not in the Bible. Some homosexuals and homosexual enablers say ... Jesus never mentions homosexuality in the New Testament and Leviticus is the Old Testament. Unfortunately for homosexuals but fortunate for society ... Jesus says in the New Testament not one Word of the Old Testament should be changed.
Nature is against homosexuality. Do not believe the lie that homosexuals and enablers of homosexuals will tell us about Nature practicing homosexuality. Nature practicing homosexuality is totally untrue ... not true.! The vast, vast majority in the animal kingdom do not practice homosexuality. Not one animal in the animal kingdom practices penetrating ... same sex.
All of us can choose to have homosexual sex. All of us can choose to live as homosexuals or not. Homsexuality is not genetic. There is no gene that determines whether you are a pervert or not. Homosexuality is a choice, Case in point ... unless raped, you choose every sex partner ... plain and simple ... black and white ... no grey areas ... case closed.
Many homosexuals try to compare homosexuality with the plight of the Blacks. ROTFL Wrong again. A person does not choose the color of their skin. A person does not choose to be born black. A person does not choose to be born tall, short, white, oriental, hispanic or black. Then again, who chooses to be a drunk or druggie?
What is scary about society and a small number of people including the Media and Hollywood ... the Media & Hollywood are major influences on Society ... is that the Management Objective of this minority of people is to convince Society and now our courts that homosexuality is okay ... good ... with rights.-
Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/03/2009 5:31:05 PM
"What is amazing about those who do wrong such as those who are homosexualis ... is that when those who do wrong like perverting society as do homosexuals, and the homosexuals are corrected ... then it is ... hatred or bigotry? "
Then it's Nazism. They were really big on "correcting" homosexuals, too.-
Posted By: Kindral @ 04/03/2009 6:23:19 PM
Not to mention jews, gypsies, black people and anyone else that was blonde, white and straight.
The last time this nation saw hate in a magnitude like that which is shown towards GLBT's, the nation also saw signs everywhere saying things like "Whites only".-
Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 6:43:22 PM
An ironic opinion as homophobia is several times more prevalent in the black community than it is the white,a condition observed by both APAs [American Psychiatric and Psychological Assns.] and other black gay activism organizations.
The New York Times Jan.20,2006: ''Black Churches Attitude Towards Gays Discussed''
www.blackdirections.com [PDF] ''Blacks And AIDS/Homophobia''.-
Posted By: Kindral @ 04/03/2009 7:51:53 PM
Really doesn't matter to me who's doing the hating. It only matters that hatings being done *shrug*
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Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 04/03/2009 6:56:52 PM
Islam has its own notions on dealing with homosexuals,thus you need not go back as far as Nazi Germany to discover such conditions. Sharia Law forbids any tolerance whatever of homosexuals,and the nations where these are in majority are the only ones that routinely execute gays.[who are too cowardly in this nation to go for the ''hard'' Islamic targets settling on ''softer'' conservative Christian ones instead,knowing that they will not be blasted into an ashpile or shown in a grainy video being beheaded. Baptists,Mormons,and Catholics being especial targets,but not those of Islam,whose Imams,even in America, regularly rail against the gay community]. Indeed,Hollywood shares this fear,having never made a single film about the outrages suffered by women and gays under Islam.
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Posted By: REASONISBEST @ 04/03/2009 6:34:42 PM
Another state legalizes marriage equality. Enjoy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/04/us/04iowa.html?_r=1&hp
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