Where is America's outrage when we have a man holding the highest office proclaim that America is not based on Christianity. Maybe he is write as he seems to want to lead us all down the path to hell. Keep the faith people. As these end times approach you will need it to do battle with the devil.
POLITICS
One Nation Under God?
The latest NEWSWEEK Poll finds shifting American attitudes about religion and faith. Still, the U.S. remains a deeply religious land.
Apr 7, 2009
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Posted By: Obama is not my President @ 04/12/2009 12:43:24 PM
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Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/12/2009 2:56:14 PM
Excuse me. Obama is right: we are not a Christian nation. We are a nation of people of a diversity of religious beliefs, including many non-Christians. Obama is not trying to lead us all to hell. Obama is trying to respect the non-Christians in this country. I'm a non-Christian. I don't belief in hell, but if there is a hell I may already be on the path to hell by my own choice and mine alone. I don't need Obama to lead me there, though I am pleased to see my President show respect for my beliefs.
We are a diverse country. Not every American is Christian. Deal with it!
Also, Obama is our President. The American people elected him. So change your screen name (Obama is not my President) you un-American trash!-
Posted By: MJ000777 @ 04/25/2009 3:25:07 AM
"Also, Obama is our President. The American people elected him. So change your screen name (Obama is not my President) you un-American trash!"
He may be our president, but his party is trying to turn the act of a preacher giving a sermon from the Bible that homosexuality is wrong into a hate crime. This was passed on Friday in committee. What is happening to the freedom of speech and religion in our country. Obama is a MARXIST and many Liberals are Faschist plain and simple.
The nation was founded by mostly christians using Jedeo-Christian morals to craft laws. The founders knew that a religious people would be a moral people for the most part. You can see evidence of the breakdown in the culture in micro by looking at the public school system. The mere mention of the word God in school sends the ACLU into overdrive. Schools try to teach citizenship, but they do not have anything behind it to back it up except their good intentions. Cheating is at a all time high, not to mention affairs between teachers and students. The great thing about the design of America is that all beliefs were welcome; Christian, Muslim, Buddhism, Agnosticism, Secularism, Atheism. There is a tradition of religiosity in the government workings, so when atheists or secularists push for ridiculous demands such as removing nativity scenes from the town hall square then christians tend to push back. And when they push back as is their right, they are seen as extremist. The person demanding that something be removed that represents something they don't believe in should be seen as the extremist in my opinion.
It seems it is alright to bag on chistians now more than ever. Look at the Miss California and the Prez Hilton episode Hilton should be banned from being a judge. Not for his question, but for the comments he made about Miss Cali after the competition. Sure he has freedom of speech, but spewing such garbage should come with consequences.-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/25/2009 7:20:28 PM
The screen name was not "Obama is a bad president"; it was "Obama was not my president". You are certainly allowed to disagree with Obama's politics and policies. But he is our president and anyone who says otherwise or defends people who say otherwise are un-American trash. Learn to be patriotic!
Moreover, calling the President or Liberal "Marxists" and "Fascists" is crossing the line. We may disagree with their policies and think the policies are flawed and infringe on liberty. But these are well-intended, patriotic Americans and we should respect them as such.
As for hate crime law, this is a debatable issue and I cannot intelligently speak on the details. But know that Congress should not be infringing upon your 1st Amendment rights and you should be free to express the view that homosexuality is wrong. You concerns are valid. But the 1st Amendment does not give you the right to speak to encourage people to harm others and disrupt public safety. The the Constitutionality of hate crime speech is debatable.
We were not founded a Christian nation; we were founded a Secular nation. Our laws are founded based not on Judeo-Christian values but on what is necessary to provide a free and civil society. Individuals are otherwise free to determine morality and values for themselves. Under the 1st Amendment, the government establish Christianity as the national religion, either through decree or by passing laws based solely on Christian values. Non-Christians should not be forced to adopt the Judeo-Christian values that they might not share via laws. Moreover, Atheists are not destroying the moral fabric of society. Atheists do not advocate for immorality like cheating and in fact often encourage moral behavior. Moreover, they are making society better by defending the rights of people (homosexuals, non-Christians, women) from whom the Religious Right wants to take away liberty. You yourself say that "the great thing about the design of America is that all beliefs are welcome". Well, every time you suggest that American is a "Christian nation" or a nation for "a religious people", you are making it painfully clear that Atheists are not welcome. When you force us to pray with you in public venues like schools, you make us feel unwelcomed. Learn to follow the Constitution and treat Atheists with respect.
That said, the 1st Amendment and respecting people goes both ways. Some atheists have overstepped and tried to take away your rights. You should feel free to pray or celebrate Christmas in public, provided non-Christians are not forced to join in. You shouldn't be harassed for expressing your beliefs. Moreover, most religious people are not extremists. It is people who want to force everyone to act Christian like them and who want to force their Christianity into our laws and schools that are extremists and they need to be deal with. But this is not mos-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/26/2009 2:39:19 AM
Under the 1st Amendment, the government CANNOT establish Christianity as the national religion, either through decree or by passing laws based solely on Christian values.
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Posted By: Vanamali @ 04/16/2009 7:44:29 PM
Don't be afraid to speak the truth I say. If you can call David Koresh a nasty man why hold back on others, are you letting your emotion get the better of you? A pedophile is evil, but use more respectful language when it is a priest? Call a space a spade.
If you are truly an Atheist, you are then saying that there is no God, so who wrote all these holy books. Men living in those times right? So, obviously they wrote what they saw, they wrote according to the knowledge that they possessed. When religion and science clash, I say, and I am Hindu, religion must give way to Science. When you start debunking science and start teaching ideas that are thousands of years old and clearly discredited, that is very dangerous, and yes backward.
Recently they showed a picture of young muslim students studying the koran at a madrassa. My niece, is a bright girl, who used to study 20 hours a day(hint not the Gita) and yet could not get into a good engineering school in India! The competition is unbelievable. What kind of jobs are these muslim students fit for? Menial jobs - which paid ok years ago but as time goes by brain power is replacing brawn power. The more educated you are, the more well-off you are. No wonder muslim countries lag behind so much and they keep falling further back.
If it upto me, I would ban all religious instrcution in schools. We need to move forward not backward. They say that the new century will belong to China and India. Look at all the best students in any University - they are either the Chinese or Indians or Koreans. I can't speak for the Chinese of Koreans, but we Hindus do no teach our religion in our schools. Hinduism belongs in our homes and our temples.-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/17/2009 4:19:41 AM
In reference to your last paragraph in your post, Vanamali, I think it is erroneous (and in fact insulting) to blame religion for the education problems of the U.S. The U.S. is struggling in education not because of religion, but because some of our teachers are not adequately qualified and the students are not being taught correctly. U.S. students are struggling in mathematics and science due to rote learning and the fact the students do not understand basic concepts, not because of religion. The only issue of religion worsening education is the teaching of Intelligent Design, but this does not account for the failure of students in mathematics, chemistry, or physics. Let's focus on the actual problems of the schools so that we can fix them. Also note that best University students not only come from China, India, and Korea, but from other Asian countries, Europe, etc.
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Posted By: MJ000777 @ 04/25/2009 3:31:44 AM
"The only issue of religion worsening education is the teaching of Intelligent Design, "
Yes it is better to teach the little monkeys that they came from pond scum and their ancestors evolved from monkeys into the fine human species of today. To believe that takes more faith than believing in a creator. Read Lee Stroebel all you atheists.....-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/25/2009 7:31:56 PM
Firstly, let me point out that I was not trying to discuss the teaching Intelligent Design issue, but acknowledging it as an issue of religion in education. I was trying to indicate that religion was not responsible for the failings of the school system and trying to move the education debate way from making religious people scapegoats and onto focusing on the real issue.
That said, Evolution is a scientific theory and Intelligent Design (which is just Creationism in disguise) is not. Creationism is theology, not science. Thus Evolution should be taught in science class and Intelligent Design should not. This doesn't mean Creationism is wrong or shouldn't be taught; it just means Creationism doesn't belong in the classroom. (Scientists make no claims on the Bible being right or wrong; they just don't study it.)
I think your post shows how little you know about Evolution. You sound like Mrs Garrison on South Park when talking about "fine humans came from little monkeys came from pond scum" (all you were missing is calling the pond scum a "retarded fish baby"). This is a rather ignorant view of Evolution. As for Lee Stroebel, he talks about the lack of evidence in the fossil record, such as transitional fossils, etc. Like all Intelligent Design people, he mostly makes a negative argument against Evolution. The fact is there is a body of evidence supporting Evolution, in the fossil record and in the behavior of microorganisms. Often there are complaints that transitional fossils, say between whales and land mammals or between fish and land animals, and often Evolutionary biologists will point to a recent discovery of such fossil records.
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Posted By: catspaw @ 04/17/2009 4:38:04 PM
bkrummel, let's also look at how many hours of school per year the students China, India, Korea, Japan, etc. also have compared to US students. And again the quality of teachers also matters as well as the quantity.
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Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/17/2009 9:12:09 PM
The hours spent in school is perhaps an issue and is frequently cited. Though I think the quality is the core problem. Until the teaching quality is addressed, attacking other issues like funding or quantity won't accomplish anything. Moreover, I feel the students need enough time in the classroom already and what they need more time of is study time outside the classroom. College students spend less time in class each week but study 25-35 hours a week or more, compared with high school students that barely study outside the classroom (maybe less than 5 hours some weeks). Also, if you want to look at other countries, Singapore has a national curriculum, unlike the U.S., and fewer topics are taught each year and topics are taught to mastery, which I think addresses the quality issue. We could discuss the education issue at length (and this issue is truly important).
Regardless, the point is that our education system has problems not because of religion. Let's not use the religious as a scapegoat for failed education policies.
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Posted By: Rich Monk @ 04/12/2009 2:45:59 PM
Religion was "created and designed" by men for men, to enslave females, the weak minded, the self chosen ignorant, and the just plain stupid.
God is superstition people, get over it!-
Posted By: MJ000777 @ 04/25/2009 2:49:54 AM
Ignorant post.
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Posted By: Vanamali @ 04/20/2009 10:40:02 PM
It's not a question of intelligence, I don't thnk the muslim is any less intelligent from a hindu, but it is how he is spending his time. You see pictures of muslim young men in madrassas learning the Koran by rote, whereas hindu young men spend their time reading school books. My niece used to spend upto 20 hours studying, and was still not able to get into a good engineering school. Faced with such competition are muslim students running away and seeking refuge in religion? Here???s a backward religion offering you goodies, all you have to do is be loyal. Abrahamic religions are King religions, IMHO, urging the followers to be good soldiers. Follow the orders of the King and he will reward you. Disobey and watch out! When you die and go to the gates of heaven, what does the first question that this god asks of you? Whether you have spent your life doing good things? Helping your fellow man? Lead an examplar life? No, all he is interested in is whether you belong to his religion or not! Are you a loyal soldier? If not, off to hell you go! Mahatma Gandhi, Einstein, Mother Teresa burning in hell! What kind of values are these religions teaching? They reward you for being a blind soldier, unquestioning their king???s teachings. Modern day slaves. No wonder these people run around killing others.
You have to question the holy books, otherwise you become a modern day slave. The worst are those who run around killing others in the name of god, not much better are those who blindly follow the words in an ancient book, the world is flat, the sun moves around the earth, the earth is 5,000 years old, and there is no evolution! The muslims are running back to the 16th century where they feel safe, and christinity is doing its part in taking us backward.
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Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/10/2009 4:49:03 AM
I'd liked to apologize to any Christians and other religious people reading any derogatory statements from Atheists and I'd like to explain where some of these Atheists come from.
Some religious people, in particular Fundamentalist Christians, have taken religion to dangerous extremes. They have fought wars in the name of religion and tried to convert nonbelievers. Some have asked that Creationism be taught as science, when Creationism is religion, not science. The Atheists and others disagree with this and have rightfully complained about this. But they sometimes forget that not all Christians are Fundamentalists, not all religious people are fanatics. They claim that religious people are "backwards", when only a select few behave in a "backwards" manner. This is wrong. Most religious people are good people and Atheists should show them respect.
Atheists also remark that religion is irrational. Well, religion is indeed as irrational as believing in Russell's Teapot. But we do irrational things all the time, such as fall in love, show love, and enjoy life. There is nothing wrong with being irrational, just as long as one does it in moderation. In fact, religion can be a very positive force in the world, used correctly.
You are probably used to seeing the face of Atheism as people like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. These are very intelligent men who are great advocates for the above concerns of Atheists and make an number of insightful points. I admire them for this. However, they sometimes go a little too far with their criticism of religion. You may also be familiar with the cases by Newdow against the word "God" on coins and in the pledge. Newdow's defense of the Constitution is admirable and he is right that putting "God" on our national coins and pledge as if all Americans believe in God pushing it. But to be honest Newdow is going to far and is a joke. Most Atheists are not like this. Atheists merely believe that there is no god. Most Atheists are not this critical of religion. We have no intention of completely removing religion from our culture or national hertiage. We know and admire a number of religious family members and friends. We respect their rights and beliefs, and we respect you rights and beliefs as well.
Atheists need to learn to show religious people more respect. We need to focus on our concerns about Fundamentalism rather than attacking all religion. We need to get the public to understand and respect our beliefs. Conversely, Christians need to show Atheists more respect. Christians need to understand public policy affects Atheists and other non-Christians and should accordingly avoid putting their beliefs and values into public policy. Non-Christians do not want to be mandated to live as Christians. Christians should be concerned with Fundamentalists as well, as the Fundamentalists threaten their liberty too and give Christianity a bad-
Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:06:40 AM
Sorry, but I disagree with you that Dawkins and Hitchens go too far.
They do not go far enough.-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/12/2009 5:06:32 AM
Wow, what a great response! So much substance! (I'm being sarcastic of course.) Could you at least indicate how far you wish Dawkins and Hitchens would go and haven't? That way I can have a more intelligent discussion with you.
Dawkins and Hitchens go pretty far to begin with. They write books, go to debates, do videos, and write articles. They are the public face of Atheism. I doubt anyone has tried to go as far as they do, save putting Atheists messages on the side of buses (I don't remember the details of where and when, but this happened I believe in Europe earlier in the year).
As the public face of Atheism, they have released videos like "The Root of All Evil?" and books like "The God Delusion" and "God Is Not Great". Perhaps these titles are the choices of the publicist to create controversy, but these are still the titles seen by the public. While Dawkins and Hitchens make a number of insightful points, they also come across as a bit arrogant. Dawkins seems particularly arrogant in "The Root of All Evil?". They don't seem to fully understand or appreciate what religion means to believers.
Now, that said Dawkins and Hitchens are extremely intelligent and vocal and have been great advocates of Atheism. They often make a number of insightful points. They also have been wonderful advocates on the issue of Evolution being taught in the schools, as compared with Creationism. I am quite pleased and interested in what Dawkins and Hitchens have already done. I just would like their tone to be slightly more modest and respectful of religious people.
I would warn you against Militant Atheism. As I have indicated elsewhere, I think in order for Atheists to earn respect, we must show people of other beliefs respect. I think our primary concern isn't the average religious person, but religious fanatics, and I think we should stay focused on the fanatics. If Atheists want to advocate on issues like teaching Evolution in the schools, that's great. But we should try to be clear that we are doing this as citizens with a common interest and our political views are not based on Atheism. I personally don't think Atheism is meant to be activist. I think Atheists should try to avoid the religious behavior we condemn, like trying to convert others, fanaticism, and excessive political activism based solely on our beliefs. I fear Militant Atheism would lead Atheists to act like the religious fanatics that we currently complain about.-
Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/15/2009 1:47:40 PM
This is bizarre apologetics when you start apologizing for the irrationality of Christians.
It is true that everyone is irrational to some extent, otherwise we would not survive as a species. That, and you carefully avoid stating this, DOES NOT MEAN THINGS ARE EQUALLY IRRATIONAL!!!!
Someone betting that the stock GOOG will rise in 2011 is irrational. He is not however as irrational as someone else who bets that Enron will rise more than GOOG in 2011.
Stop trying to peddle all irrational beliefs to have equal weight.
And regarding how "Atheists need to learn to show religious people more respect", why?
Why should I respect someone just because he or she is religious? I do respect people who are religious, not because they are religious, but because they have done something to earn it. In other words, I respect some religious people despite them being religious.
And stop speaking on behalf of atheists as if atheism is an organization. That is such a lame capitulation to the typical Christian caricature of atheists.
And while you are at it, it is atheists, not Atheists.
Here's a quiz for you, bkrummel:
I was born of a male god and a female mortal.
I performed miraculous feats
I died painfully
I was resurrected
I am god
Josephus (1) and Tacitus (2) mention me.
1. http://www.godrules.net/library/flavius/flaviusapion2.htm
2. http://www.unrv.com/tacitus/tacitusgermania.php
Who am I?-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/15/2009 4:07:54 PM
In between writing quizzes, where you ever going to "indicate how far you wish Dawkins and Hitchens would go and haven't?" Does your reply even truly address my post that you reply to about Dawkins, Hitchens, and militant atheism?
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Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/15/2009 4:01:16 PM
"This is bizarre apologetics when you start apologizing for the irrationality of Christians."
I'm not apologizing for their irrationality. I am pointing out that their approach to understand the world and living is greatly different from a rational, intellectual world view. Neither approach is superior. I in fact think that a purely irrational world view and a purely rational world view are both inferior to some reasonable mix. But some atheists react as a purely rational, intellectual view is superior. Moreover, to suggest a debate between irrational religious and rational intellectualism is ridiculous, as these are two very different approaches to knowledge and all you can do is say you each disagree. It is intellectually dishonest to try to compare the two approaches in the first place since they are so different.
This doesn't mean I want the religious to be dogmatic fanatics. They often interject their religion in politics and are oblivious to how wrong this is and how it effects others, including non-Christians, because they are so wrapped up in their faith. But as long as the keep their beliefs private (as in outside of public policy and not imposed on others, not never praying in public), I don't see why we should criticize them for having irrational faith.
As a general policy, one should extend respect to other people and other groups unless the respect is lost. We should respect people because it is polite and it is necessary for earning others' respect. If we go around bad mouthing religion, religious people are going to think atheists hate religion and are going to disrespect atheists in return. This isn't about the respect the Christians earn, this is about us atheists earning respect for ourselves and doing what is right to begin with.
Moreover, you should consider ourselves as an organization. That is how the religious people view us. We share common beliefs and some atheists are activists as atheists. We should regard ourselves as representing all atheists. Some atheists do organize and this is probably a good thing overall. You almost seem ashamed to call yourself atheist and associate with others.
As for your quiz. I haven't the slightest clue who you are taking about. I don't accept Jesus Christ as my savior and know nothing about Jesus, so I am entirely clueless who are you talking about. LOL (In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if their are multiple answers to your quiz, save the Josephus and Tacitus hint.) Now does this quiz of yours have a point beyond showing off that you are a dick?
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Posted By: jlrinnc @ 04/13/2009 12:51:35 PM
As always, very well stated bkrummel. All people deserve respect, but when that has been abused it is extremely difficult for them to reestablish. I do admit that even as a christian it is sometimes difficult to show respect to someone who blindly hates anyone who belongs to a certain faith, race or geographical region. But I have not walked in any ones shoes but my own, and I know that words can make deep scars in a persons heart. There is no blanket nomenclature that can completely describe any human being because we are all individuals with different experiences and therefore different beliefs. When we place all the people of any group and place them under one heading, and then discredit them all without first listening to each individual, we truly, and exclusively, do harm to ourselves.
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/15/2009 1:47:27 PM
Good thing that you think Hitler deserved respect.
no, bad thing. Bad thing that you think Hitler deserves respect-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/15/2009 4:05:29 PM
jlrinnc was kindly praising my post and was saying something that is generally true: people should tend to be respected. So you bring up Hitler. You may be right about Hitler not deserving respect, but your post is nonetheless asinine. But this is hardly surprising coming from the dick with the (Jesus?) quiz.
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/15/2009 1:46:35 PM
This is bizarre apologetics when you start apologizing for the irrationality of Christians.
It is true that everyone is irrational to some extent, otherwise we would not survive as a species. That, and you carefully avoid stating this, DOES NOT MEAN THINGS ARE EQUALLY IRRATIONAL!!!!
Someone betting that the stock GOOG will rise in 2011 is irrational. He is not however as irrational as someone else who bets that Enron will rise more than GOOG in 2011.
Stop trying to peddle all irrational beliefs to have equal weight.
And regarding how "Atheists need to learn to show religious people more respect", why?
Why should I respect someone just because he or she is religious? I do respect people who are religious, not because they are religious, but because they have done something to earn it. In other words, I respect some religious people despite them being religious.
And stop speaking on behalf of atheists as if atheism is an organization. That is such a lame capitulation to the typical Christian caricature of atheists.
And while you are at it, it is atheists, not Atheists.
Here's a quiz for you, bkrummel:
I was born of a male god and a female mortal.
I performed miraculous feats
I died painfully
I was resurrected
I am god
Josephus (1) and Tacitus (2) mention me.
1. http://www.godrules.net/library/flavius/flaviusapion2.htm
2. http://www.unrv.com/tacitus/tacitusgermania.php
Who am I? -
Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/15/2009 1:45:58 PM
This is bizarre apologetics when you start apologizing for the irrationality of Christians.
It is true that everyone is irrational to some extent, otherwise we would not survive as a species. That, and you carefully avoid stating this, DOES NOT MEAN THINGS ARE EQUALLY IRRATIONAL!!!!
Someone betting that the stock GOOG will rise in 2011 is irrational. He is not however as irrational as someone else who bets that Enron will rise more than GOOG in 2011.
Stop trying to peddle all irrational beliefs to have equal weight.
And regarding how "Atheists need to learn to show religious people more respect", why?
Why should I respect someone just because he or she is religious? I do respect people who are religious, not because they are religious, but because they have done something to earn it. In other words, I respect some religious people despite them being religious.
And stop speaking on behalf of atheists as if atheism is an organization. That is such a lame capitulation to the typical Christian caricature of atheists.
And while you are at it, it is atheists, not Atheists.
Here's a quiz for you, bkrummel:
I was born of a male god and a female mortal.
I performed miraculous feats
I died painfully
I was resurrected
I am god
Josephus (1) and Tacitus (2) mention me.
1. http://www.godrules.net/library/flavius/flaviusapion2.htm
2. http://www.unrv.com/tacitus/tacitusgermania.php
Who am I? -
Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/15/2009 1:45:05 PM
This is bizarre apologetics when you start apologizing for the irrationality of Christians.
It is true that everyone is irrational to some extent, otherwise we would not survive as a species. That, and you carefully avoid stating this, DOES NOT MEAN THINGS ARE EQUALLY IRRATIONAL!!!!
Someone betting that the stock GOOG will rise in 2011 is irrational. He is not however as irrational as someone else who bets that Enron will rise more than GOOG in 2011.
Stop trying to peddle all irrational beliefs to have equal weight.
And regarding how "Atheists need to learn to show religious people more respect", why?
Why should I respect someone just because he or she is religious? I do respect people who are religious, not because they are religious, but because they have done something to earn it. In other words, I respect some religious people despite them being religious.
And stop speaking on behalf of atheists as if atheism is an organization. That is such a lame capitulation to the typical Christian caricature of atheists.
And while you are at it, it is atheists, not Atheists.
Here's a quiz for you, bkrummel:
I was born of a male god and a female mortal.
I performed miraculous feats
I died painfully
I was resurrected
I am god
Josephus (1) and Tacitus (2) mention me.
1. http://www.godrules.net/library/flavius/flaviusapion2.htm
2. http://www.unrv.com/tacitus/tacitusgermania.php
Who am I? -
Posted By: jlrinnc @ 04/10/2009 5:10:09 PM
Very well stated bkrummel! I firmly believe that when you believe in something you should stand by your beliefs. That only becomes bad when someone (Christian or not) starts to treat others as freaks because they don't agree. We have become a nation of insecure people who get offended when someone challenges our beliefs. America stand up for what you believe in. Discuss issues instead of hurling insults. The most important ability we have when it comes to peaceful coexistence is our ability to TRULY listen and not just be thinking about a stinging retort while the other person is listening. Bkrummel, if more Americans interacted as objectively as you do, in the face of opposing viewpoints, our nation would quickly return to the original vision that our founding fathers envisioned. Varied beliefs accompanied by common respect. Bravo
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:09:09 AM
There is no reason to respect a Christian, and there are plenty to disrespect one!
There are often plenty of reasons to respect a person even if he is a Christian.
Confused?
Let me explain. If all there is to a person is his Christianity, he is worthy of contempt. But if, despite being a Christian does something that is worthy of respect, then he'd have earned it,-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/12/2009 4:30:16 AM
I think you are very wrong.
First off, the Christians whom I aim to disrespect are Evangelical Christian fanatics. I have plenty of reasons for disrespecting the fanatics. But most Christians are not fanatics and are just good people living their own lives. There is no reason for disrespecting them.
There is a very good reason for showing the average Christian respect. It is because we expect to earn their respect. If we want people to respect us and our beliefs, we should respect their beliefs. If we go around hating on Christians, people are just going to think that Atheists are hateful jerks that are completely opposed to religion and most people, especially religious people, will disrespect us. Thus disrespecting Christians is self-defeating. Moreover, disrespecting Christians is hypocritical, considering how Atheists complain about Christians disrespecting their beliefs. If you want to earn the respect of others, you must show them respect yourself.
Also keep in mind that you disrespecting a Christian reflects on other Atheists like me and undermine my attempts to earn their respect. So you should show Christians respect because in doing so you are showing your fellow Atheists respect.
Now I agree that respect is to be earned. But I often try to respect people until they have done something to lose my respect. It's just good manners to be courteous of others. Just because someone hasn't given you a reason for you respect them yet doesn't mean you should treat them with contempt. Moreover, being Christian does not make such a person inherently worth of contempt, at least until he does something to earn your respect. To go around showing contempt to people you don't yet know or to entire groups of people like Christians is simply rude. And as I indicated before, if you treat others with contempt, don't expect them to show you respect.
I don't know what happened to you to make you think you can disrespect Christians like this, but you real show try respecting other people and people of different beliefs than yours.
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Posted By: sms29s66 @ 04/15/2009 3:10:35 PM
The hero born of god and man who rose from the dead was Hercules, of course.
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Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/15/2009 4:02:03 PM
I knew there was more than one answer!
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Posted By: ldlrmtle @ 04/13/2009 12:47:29 AM
I think the "strong delusion" The LIving God said He will send on an unbeliving, sinful, unrighteous people has ocuured. Our those who are against Jesus Christ, not pomp of religion and all it's seen and be seen attitude or pagentry..lthis is not Christianity...it's false. Christ dwells in the hearts via the Holy Spirit in those whom He loves and who love Him with all we have. This (as the apostle Paul said would be) looks like foolishnes to those who are perishing, God made those who are the least in the world to become wise and comfound the wise who are really fools. Without the Holy Spirit and love for God in Jesus Christ...you can talk all day, but you will not change the fact, The LIving God will judge all one the appointed day, and all will die! Love your temporary sin and live in hell, or seek repentance and God thru Christ Jesus and gain life eternal in His Kingdom. Quit looking to man-made rituals and myths and for tangible things. Exercise your faith, and see how far it will take you. If you don't belive in a God, then you've no hope and without hope, what's the point in getting up everyday? What? There is none. Faith, hope and love through Jesus Christ is all that matters and what we with faith get up daily helping the lost find the cross, praying Jesus Come quickly for us who are sealed with His Spirit.
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Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/13/2009 5:09:41 AM
"If you don't belive in a God, then you've no hope and without hope, what's the point in getting up everyday?"
I'm an Atheist, but I still have hope. I hope that I will become a better person. I hope that I will find true love. My hope doesn't rest on God or Jesus. My hope rest on my ability to improve my life and on nothing more than the simple belief that my life will get better.
I have a really good reason for getting up in the morning, something that has nothing to do with hope or God. I love my life. I have a job that I love and I want to wake up to do. I have friends that I want to see. I have TV shows that I want to watch. I have a delicious dinner planned for myself. I'm looking forward to living my life tomorrow.
I think this quote of your's is incorrect.
Though I like your view of religion being about your faith more than pomp, attitude, and pagentry. One of the reasons I rejected religion is I never liked the pomp and rituals of organized religion and figured how you live your life is more important. I'm glad to here religious people feel similar.
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Posted By: Vanamali @ 04/09/2009 10:27:07 PM
As they say, ???Where???s the beef???, I ask, ???Where???s the divinity????. Anyone can claim to be god or to have seen god, hey David Koresh made such claims. How dumb were those people to believe him and hand over their daughters to him? Those people were brain-washed? How about you people?
The earth is the center of the solar system? You mean god doesn???t know that the earth revolves around the sun? Earth is 5,000 years old? Come on, can???t anyone see that these are just the ideas of uneducated people living about 2,000 years ago? Of course the earth was flat and the sun ran around the earth, because that is what they saw and that was the extent of their knowledge at that time. They had no clue about evolution and had no way of judgeing the age of the earth. 5,000 years must have sounded like a grand old number at the time. Some bearded guy sitting down and making us made a lot of sense. Of course, ???god??? condoned slavery but makes all kinds of other rules.
It is quite obvious that these are just the imaginations of people, uneducated people at that, living thousands of years ago. They knew no better. What is sad is that with all the knowledge that we have today, people still believe in these backward religions and their backward ideas.-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/09/2009 11:30:04 PM
I agree with some of what you say. Some people believe in things that are completely ridiculous (have been proven wrong by science, etc) in the name of their religion. Some people state that there religion is fact while they simply have faith in their religion. But to say that religious people are backwards is wrong. Most religious people use the Bible as a moral guide and to have faith in something and are good decent people. Most of these people accept science. It is a few fanatics that have taken their faith too far. Moreover, treating people with different religious than yours as inferior is what religious people do and atheists complain about. Us atheists should go out of our way to respect people of different religious beliefs, if for no other reason than we expect the same respect in return. We shouldn't go around calling religious people as backwards. Atheists who do so give atheism a bad name and hurt all atheists.
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Posted By: jh35180 @ 04/09/2009 11:42:35 PM
BK, I will agree with you here. BTW, I took some things that you said earlier and I took them out of context and I would like to apologize for that. I gather that we don't agree with each other on the basic premise of our beliefs. But you respect people who choose to believe in God. I realize that the person to whom you addressed has a right to say whatever he or she wishes to say. However, I will agree that calling Christians or other religous people "backwards" does give atheists a bad name. Just as many non religious people used to get angered at fundamentalist Christians, Christians likewise get sick and tired of hearing others persecute them as well.
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Posted By: Vanamali @ 04/11/2009 7:10:49 PM
May I present a different view? First of all, never be afraid of speaking the truth. I give you the example of the pedophile priests. The church hid their actions and is now spending millions to get them to go free. What do these pedophiles do when they get out? Have they changed? I don???t think so. Without a record to sully them, they are now free to abuse other kids. This is what happens when you hide from the truth, the situation becomes much worse. Instead of a few kids getting hurt, now more kids are in danger of being abused by these former priests.
Another example is the situation in some muslim countries that have imposed muslim law. They are taking their ideas from a book written thousands of years ago for a different time. They stone people to death, cut peoples arms and legs, force women under the Burkha and deny them an education. One thing stands out ??? these guys would love to live in the 16th century! They are afraid of modernity ??? freedom for women, freedom of expression and ideas. Scared of a society that rewards education and intelligence, they are running back to a backward society. Obama was right ??? they cling to guns and religion.
Don???t think that what is happening in those muslim countries cannot happen here. One must fight these backward religions teaching backward ideas, otherwise the danger is that your children are going to be left behind.-
Posted By: Etiquette @ 04/12/2009 1:04:20 AM
Cow Pee Drinker Brain Damaged Indian Filth Vanamali:
You are a typical bastard Hindu propagandist who don't have any knowledge of Islam. You practice man made "Hinduism" which is only the worst one on the face of earth. A religion where people drink their Own and Cow's Pee. You people, literate or illiterate, even take shower with Cow's Pee. Your hell bounded Prime Minister Murar Gi Desai used to drink his own full of *** germy Pee. He openly admitted to the media. If you don't know, you should make a trip to hell to ask him wether its true or not. A religion, Hinduism, where girls are forced to marry "Dogs, Monkeys, Rats, Snakes and even grand sons married their own grand mothers in order to have prosperity. A religion where a single woman forced to marry four real brothers. A religion where "Dead Bodies" are thrown into river Ganges without cremation and dogs eat them literally and where bastard Hindus take a dip in the same river to clean their sins. In Hinduism, if a huband dies then his wife has to with him. Shame on you son of a bitch dickhead scumbag. What a shameful teachings of "GEETA." Before you lift finger on others, check your own ***-up backyard. In your religion "Shitty, Filthy Hindu Sadhus" are running around completely naked in front of women, childern, young & old on the roads in a densely populated areas. You bastard Indian called yourself a Modern Indians, but actually you are ***-up nation and living in a "Stone Age." If you want to see all these shameful scenes, go to "Google.Com" and type "Hindus/Indians rituals superstitions". You will find hundreds of site to show you the mirror, therefore see them and *** yourself. As far as Ghandhi is concerned, he was a son of a bitch double faced bastard crook. If West does not know about him in detail but the people of Subcontinent do. An Indian author described his dirty secret life and all deceived political games in details. I will provide you the name of the author and the book later.-
Posted By: chumahan @ 04/12/2009 5:44:07 PM
Hi, to slander people is not being a good Muslim. True Muslims are peaceful and accepting. I forgive you.
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Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/10/2009 4:25:04 AM
"BTW, I took some things that you said earlier and I took them out of context and I would like to apologize for that."
I saw the apology and accepted it. If you did not see that, note that I accept your apology. Thanks for apologizing.
"Just as many non religious people used to get angered at fundamentalist Christians, Christians likewise get sick and tired of hearing others persecute them as well."
I know and I try to remind my fellow atheists of this. I think it is important to show others respect, both because it is right and it is necessary to show people respect to earn their respect. Note that I have absolutely no problem with the average Christian, only the Fundamentalists, whom I have some genuine complaints about. The average Christian is harmless and is often a good person.-
Posted By: Etiquette @ 04/12/2009 1:07:20 AM
Conti........
If you bonehead have a little bit positivity then you should read your own Indian writer "Arundhaty Roy's" columns as well. You talked about womens' rights in your postings. Can you tell me how many women are free to speak in our trouble maker bastard India? Women in India living a hellish life on the face of the earth. Read the statements of standing women candates in current elections. Do they have the freedom to do what want to do in India? For the best answers, you should go to Google.Com which will *** you deep down in your full of *** ass, all the up to your throat. I think it would be enough for you to see the "Ugly face of India and Indians" as well. You called "Buddha" an enlightened person, but I don't see any one. Where the *** is that? You said "India is a polyglot of hundreds of faith." My foot. If you are so proud of "Polyglot" then why the *** you, "Hindus Terrorist," killings thousands of Muslims, Christians, Parsis, Low Cast Hindus and other minorities in order to make India pure upper class "Hindus State?"
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Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/10/2009 4:20:16 AM
"BTW, I took some things that you said earlier and I took them out of context and I would like to apologize for that."
I think I saw your apology and accepted it. If you did not see that, just know that I accept your apology.
"However, I will agree that calling Christians or other religious people "backwards" does give atheists a bad name. Just as many non religious people used to get angered at fundamentalist Christians, Christians likewise get sick and tired of hearing others persecute them as well."
I know and I try to remind the atheists of this when they forget to respect others. I think showing others respect is very important, if only because it's right and it's necessary for earning others' respect.
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Posted By: HolyRoller @ 04/10/2009 12:31:40 PM
WOW...GUESS I FOUND AN EARLY EASTER EGG....MY ENTIRE FAMILY THREATENED BY AN OBAMABOT....I MUST BE DOING SOMTHING RIGHT......
Posted By: izageek @ 04/09/2009 10:17:46 PMYou're either too stupid to understand or unable to due to deep rooted racism. There are no more cases. If you read the ruling you would realize that, or at least a sane person would. The same goes for the FactCheck.org findings. You are delusional and IF YOU KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY YOU'LL DROP THIS MATTER...(capitalization mine)
Looks like the Brown Shirts are coming out of the closet...Guess it's a good thing, I use my 2nd amendment rights.....
NOBAMA!!!.-
Posted By: Jeffrey09 @ 04/11/2009 3:01:49 AM
hollyroller, this article shouldn't be about criticizing President Obama's comment, it should be about whether RELIGION as a whole has INFLUENCED our government too much in the past and in the present. Religion, in my opinion, is best kept personal and in religious institutions(churches, cathedrals, mosques, synagogues, etc.). It is a matter of personal preference; You CANNOT force your religious belief on the non-religious or people of other beliefs. Implying that the United States is a Christian nation DOES NOT mean it is 100% Christian; it only means that a slight majority of the people follow the message of Jesus. We got Hindis, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, and the like in our country. Coercing them to live Christian is a violation of the First Amendment(religion establishment clause) and it shows a person's intolerance of beliefs other than their own. In this case, I'm talking about the more extreme members of a religion.
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Posted By: csishark @ 04/11/2009 8:42:36 AM
Being able to speak about one's religion is part of the American experience. I should be able to speak my Christian view as well as any other faith. I should be able to use my religious view as a basis for my morality and policy since I cannot see how you can be a faithless person in one situation and then be of faith in another. You either believe a thing or you don't. People like you atheists want "freedom from religion" which means you better go hide in a hole because that means you will stifle the views of others simply because you are afraid of God. If you want the truth try seeking out Satan, he is ready to scare the belief right into you...if you and your soul survive. When the right situation comes you will call out to God, lets hope it is on this side of life where you can still be saved.
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Posted By: chumahan @ 04/12/2009 5:40:54 PM
You can speak your belief, but then you can also be criticized by someone else speaking their belief. You have the right to say whatever you want. Someone else has the right to tell you it's wrong. As for as public life goes, that is the Government, the Fathers of the United States did NOT want the government to get sidetracked in acrimonious religious discussion. If you look at all organized religions, you will see that they themselves cannot not agree on anything either. I mean ask Luther when he split from the Catholics. The conservative and liberal groups exists in every religion, and because their "proof" or "authority" is based on faith, everyone has equal power to argue, and do. Therefore there will never be a true consensus within a particular religion, which is fine as long as the government does not get bogged down in those debates. The government has other stuff to do. Worldy stuff to do. So the Framers said, you know what? Let's just take this out of government. Thomas Jefferson did not even believe that Christ was the son of God, nor did he believe any of the miracles. Jefferson created his own bible, now known as the Jefferson Bible. Essentially he ripped out the supernatural parts of the bible and that was it. This country was not a Christian nation ever, never intended to be either, at most this country could be Deist but that's about it.
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Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/11/2009 2:24:30 PM
"Being able to speak about one's religion is part of the American experience. I should be able to speak my Christian view as well as any other faith."
Yea, and it is also protected under the 1st Amendment. No one is asking you to stop practicing or talking about your faith. But the key thing here is that there other faiths and they have the right to their faith as well.
"I should be able to use my religious view as a basis for my morality and policy since I cannot see how you can be a faithless person in one situation and then be of faith in another."
If you want to use your religion as a basis for your personal morality, that is fine. If you want to use your religion as a basis for public policy that effects the rest of us, that is not fine. We are not asking you to be "faithless" in one situation and to be of "faith" in another; we just want to you recognize and respect the fact that you live in a society where not everyone shares your faith. Christians are still a majority in this country and if Christians use their religion as a basis of policy, us non-Christians would be forced to live as if we are Christians. You'd be mandating your Judeo-Christian values that we do not necessarily share. Try showing us non-Christians respect; keeping your religious views out of our nation's policies is a big part of that.
"People like you atheists want "freedom from religion" which means you better go hide in a hole because that means you will stifle the views of others simply because you are afraid of God."
Firstly, we are not afraid of God because we don't even believe in God in the first place. Second, we don't want "freedom from religion". We want the right to exercise our beliefs just like you. We don't believe in God and we don't want to be forced to live as if we did. So we ask you to keep your faith out of policies that effect us, since we do not share your faith. We just want you to show us proper respect as fellow citizens.
"When the right situation comes you will call out to God, lets hope it is on this side of life where you can still be saved."
You go from asking us to respect your faith to patronizing atheists. That's hypocritical and rude, very very rude. We do not believe in god, we will never "call out to God", so stop suggesting that we will.-
Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:05:16 AM
Right on!
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Posted By: Vanamali @ 04/11/2009 6:54:58 PM
"I urge you to go to any society where Christians are not present and observe the differences first hand."
If the Buddha had been born in europe in the middle ages, he would have been branded a heretic and been tortured and killed! There would be no Buddhism today. The word Buddha means enlightened person - how many enlightened persons were killed off by the church? The parsees, persecuted by iranian muslims fled to India where they could practice their religion in peace. It is not a coincidence that western and muslim lands are barren but for one religion each, while Hindu India is a polyglot of hundreds of faiths.
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Posted By: Jeffrey09 @ 04/11/2009 3:00:04 AM
hollyroller, this article shouldn't be about criticizing President Obama's comment, it should be about whether RELIGION as a whole has INFLUENCED our government too much in the past and in the present. Religion, in my opinion, is best kept personal and in religious institutions(churches, cathedrals, mosques, synagogues, etc.). It is a matter of personal preference; You CANNOT force your religious belief on the non-religious or people of other beliefs. Implying that the United States is a Christian nation DOES NOT mean it is 100% Christian; it only means that a slight majority of the people follow the message of Jesus. We got Hindis, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, and the like in our country. Coercing them to live Christian is a violation of the First Amendment(religion establishment clause) and it shows a person's intolerance of beliefs other than their own. In this case, I'm talking about the more extreme members of a religion.
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Posted By: Jeffrey09 @ 04/11/2009 2:56:35 AM
hollyroller, this article shouldn't be about criticizing President Obama's comment, it should be about whether RELIGION as a whole has INFLUENCED our government too much in the past and in the present. Religion, in my opinion, is best kept personal and in religious institutions(churches, cathedrals, mosques, synagogues, etc.). It is a matter of personal preference; You CANNOT force your religious belief on the non-religious or people of other beliefs. Implying that the United States is a Christian nation DOES NOT mean it is 100% Christian; it only means that a slight majority of the people follow the message of Jesus. We got Hindis, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, and the like in our country. Coercing them to live Christian is a violation of the First Amendment(religion establishment clause) and it shows a person's intolerance of beliefs other than their own. In this case, I'm talking about the more extreme members of a religion.
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Posted By: chumahan @ 04/12/2009 12:39:25 AM
What this statistic reflects is the crisis in the "brand" Christian. Around the 1990's Feminists experienced the same problem. The brand became associated with the most visible and the loudest members of the feminist political movement. The extreme fringe's attitude and look was too radical and too harsh for a lot of women. As a result, many women stopped calling themselves "Feminists" but still cared very much about the principles of sex equality and reproductive freedom. Also, around the 1990's the conservative movements grabbed hold of many liberal "frameworks" to advocate for conservative values. For instance, they used "anti-discrimination" language to bring Religion more into the public forum. As they were late in adopting liberal strategies, so too are they just now facing the liberal branding crisis. Religion has taken a beating because fundamentalists (all over the world) are the most visible and the loudest. As a result, most people want to separate themselves from being considered religious. In fact, this has happened at home here in the United States too. The most visible Christian of late was George W., and many Christians may want to separate themselves from that image, an uncompromising servant to the "party-line." Also, the mainstream Christian movement has been forced into a "non-environmentalist" agenda. Many Christians are now questioning whether that's really Christian or not. Finally, exposure to many other religions may also cause many to question Christian "doctrines" that are incompatible with true inter-faith dialogue. As a result, many people may believe in Christian values, may accept Christ as their lord, but beyond that, aren't really sure they are "in step" with what most Americans consider a "Christian." They may love Christ, but not want to be called a "Christian."
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:02:12 AM
Same old Lame old "No True Christian" apologetics!
Who made you uber-Pope to decide whether or not W is a Christian, when he says he is?-
Posted By: chumahan @ 04/12/2009 5:31:02 PM
I didn't decide he was Christian, he went around telling everyone he was and basically poisoned the well for all the other Christians.
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Posted By: DrewCAENG @ 04/12/2009 4:53:07 PM
The framers were deist anyway this argument is irrelevant. America has never been a Christian nation, at no point in the constitution or Dec. of independence is the word Christian mentioned. America is secular and we always have been! Stop trying to change history or impose your self righteous BS on everybody else, the framers made America secular for a reason and that reason was to avoid religious extremism!
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Posted By: Obama is not my President @ 04/12/2009 12:40:04 PM
Where is the outrage of the American people when the supposed President says our country is not based on Chistianity? Under him he is correct it is based on devil worship as far as I am concerned as he tries to lead the masses on the path to hell. The end times approach ever faster and he has hastened them.
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Posted By: hittemstr8 @ 04/09/2009 7:59:11 AM
Like it or not; Love it or hate it; curse it or praise it; THE UNITED STATES WAS FOUNDED BY CHRISTIANS AS A CHRISTIAN NATION, and the vast majority of its citizens were Christian. Our national motto is, "IN GOD WE TRUST"; our national hymn is, "GOD OF OUR FATHERS." The fathers being Abraham, Isaac and Jacob of the Bible. We pledge allegiance to the United States of America as "ONE NATION UNDER GOD."
Our Constitution begins with, "We the people of the United States..." Article Seven mentions, "the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred eighty seven..." Ask yourself, who is "our Lord" which is mentioned by "we the people?" Few people know, and it is no longer taught in our public schools, that eleven of the thirteen original colonies gave religious tests for public office. They required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as a basic qualification for holding public office.-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/10/2009 1:47:03 PM
You may be right that our nation was founded by Christians, etc., but it doesn't matter. Today, we are a nation of people of many different religions, including many Atheists and other non-Christians. You have to respect our believes and rights too. We have to live together in a society, with its diversity of beliefs, can live with. Us non-Christians are guaranteed this under the Constitution by the 1st Amendment, which in particular prevents Christianity from being established as the national religion. You shouldn't put your Judeo-Christian values into public policy, as us non-Christians do not want to be mandated to live as if we were Christians according to Christian values. You really shouldn't refer to us as a Christian nation.
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:15:45 AM
He is not!
Treaty of Tripoli 1797
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.-
Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/12/2009 4:01:15 AM
Wow, Simpleton, I couldn't read this a little further up or down when you replied to Hittemstr8, who claimed the the United States was founded as a Christian nation? Moreover, I said that he may be right that Christians founded the country; many of the Founding Fathers were in fact Christians, so he is right. Besides, did you read more than part of the first sentence? I was saying that whether the Founding Fathers were Christians and founded a Christian nation didn't matter in the first place, since right now we are a country of diverse religious beliefs and values. Maybe you should have read what I wrote before responding to my post.
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Posted By: Airforce/Army @ 04/09/2009 8:40:47 AM
Was it Christian to keep the African American in Slavery or Woman in Serfdom, or deny them their Human Rights under the Constitution. But most of all , how Christian was it to Commit Genocide on the American Indian???
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Posted By: hittemstr8 @ 04/09/2009 8:49:07 AM
What's your point? Christians have certainly committed wrongful acts/ practices in history... so have all religions. So have the Stalins of the World.. so, please spare me the bleeding heart secular stuff.. you have no moral high ground to stand on and nothing you've said, can change the fact that this country was founded by Christians, based on Christian beliefs.
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:17:01 AM
Ah the lame excuse of drunk drivers killing people is OK, because sober drivers also get into accidents.
Treaty of Tripoli 1797, BITCH!
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. -
Posted By: Airforce/Army @ 04/10/2009 8:28:10 AM
Thanks for making my point, Do you know how many millions of innocent people all over the world have been killed because of Religion? From the Crusades to the Inquisition, yes even the witch hunts in Salem. The Belief in a God or Higher Being is the most Powerful and Private part of a persons life. The individual believer has performed many wonderful acts and Charitable deeds, but The Hierarchy of religions who have murdered and pilfered in the name of God will one day pay for their sins. I Believe In God but I don't believe in the Religion's of today!!!
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Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/09/2009 10:15:20 AM
Why do you lie? This country was founded by Deists, on the principles of common law, which descended from Danelaw, which had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.
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Posted By: hittemstr8 @ 04/09/2009 12:17:03 PM
You are all beginning to bore me with your lame arguments.
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Posted By: jtice @ 04/09/2009 4:10:04 PM
Now that's just immaturity, calling others' arguments "lame arguments". The Founding Fathers were, in fact, Deists. They were not what the revisionists call "fundamentalists". John Adams wrote "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion...". It says in the Constitution"year of our Lord" because that's what everyone used. A.D stands for Anno Domini which means "Year of our Lord". The framers weren't going to change the Dating system so they could write the Constitution.
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Posted By: catspaw @ 04/09/2009 11:39:39 AM
Tell what wrongs the Buddhist have done.
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:14:50 AM
Only if you are a liar or uneducated in American History.
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Treaty of Tripoli 1797, signed by most of the founding fathers has this:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Stop lying, you Christian! -
Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 04/09/2009 8:44:10 AM
"THE UNITED STATES WAS FOUNDED BY CHRISTIANS AS A CHRISTIAN NATION"
Actually that is a lie. The country was founded as a secualr nation that allowed its citizens to believe any any religion (or not religion) and intentionally denied any religion special status in government.
"Our national motto is, "IN GOD WE TRUST";"
That motto was not official until 1956 and was done solely as a Cold War/ McCarthyistic statement to differentiate the US from the USSR. It was done out of fear and not for any valid reason. The same can be said for:"ONE NATION UNDER GOD" in the pledge of allegiance. Those words were NEVER part of the original pledge and have not valid place there. Like "in god we trust" it was done out of fear of the USSR.
"our national hymn is, "GOD OF OUR FATHERS."
There is no "national hymn". That term is used by the authors of a hymn that was written but was NEVER officially adopted (or even recognized as such except by some Christains).
Article Seven mentions, "the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred eighty seven..." "
The use of the term "in the year of our lord" was standard legal boilerplate text that ALL legal and constitutional scholars acknowledge had lost ALL religious meaning (and therefore can NOT be used to imply that the country was intended to be a religious nation.) It was simply a carryover form English legal text.
"that eleven of the thirteen original colonies gave religious tests for public office. They required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as a basic qualification for holding public office. "
As for the state requiring religious tests for office it has been determined that ALL of those requirements are superceded by Article VI Section 3 of the US Constitution which clearly and unequivocally states that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." Therefore the founding fathers clearly intended that religion was NOT to be considered.-
Posted By: hittemstr8 @ 04/09/2009 9:07:55 AM
There are no lies to my facts, and you can twist your secular arguement anyway you want.. but the references to God and Christ and the documented beliefs of our founding fathers is so innumerable that you look silly making a case against this being a Christian country founded by Christian men. It was not only founded by Christian men but their beliefs have been reinforced over and over again throughout the 225 year history of our country. You can downplay motivations and come up with secular excuses for why "One Nation Under God" appears in our pledge of allegiance and on our nations currency.. but at the time of McCarthy 95% of American called themselves Christian. So the sociology lesson you want to give me that it was done out of fear doesn't work.. It was done to prove a point, to make a bold statement to the world that we are a godly country. And your use of the country being founded on secular beliefs is double faced... secular beliefs at the time of our countries founding wasn't diverse.. it was a matter of allowing for and recognizing multi- denominational christianity... each colony was settled by a different christian group.. but christian nonetheless. And the state constitutions of those 13 colonies, separate and independent of one another speaks volumes for who we were as a country.
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Posted By: dwight_b @ 04/10/2009 2:17:24 PM
Wow, the fact that "UNDER GOD" was added to the pledge of allegiance in 1955 is a secular excuse?!? It's a simple fact. The founding fathers didn't put it there!
In addition there was no reference to god in any currency until the civil war.
The Great Seal of the United States which, unlike our currency, was designed by the founding fathers doesn't say anything about god. It does say "E pluribus unum", which was our national motto as chosen by the founding fathers.
How are any of these FACTS "secular arguments". They are just facts.
Finally, just because something was done by the founding fathers doesn't mean it was correct or that it even followed in the spirit of the great things that they created... they were only human. The founding fathers had slaves... does that make it OK?
So let's assume that you are correct... "the founding fathers of this country were Christian, therefore this is a Christian nation". I will add, "the founding fathers were slave owners, therefore this is a slave owning nation". "The founding fathers were all white, therefore this is a white nation." I don't agree with any of these statements, I just hope they accentuate the obsolesence of your argument. Who cares that they were Christian- this government has changed to more perfectly meet the intent of our founding fathers. It's no longer a slavery nation... it's no longer a 'white' nation and I will be perfectly fine when it's no longer a Christian nation- just like the constitution says it shouldn't be!-
Posted By: radiohead77 @ 04/10/2009 2:55:39 PM
Well said Dwight!
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Posted By: catspaw @ 04/09/2009 11:38:12 AM
That's way these Christian Men gave us Freedom of Religion. And on of the Founding Fathers had so many women and from what I also understand men as well, he never married, because he preferred this life style. In England He would not be allowed to have it. Which Founding Father am I speaking of?
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Posted By: Katm @ 04/09/2009 9:51:01 AM
Since you are passionate about America being a Christian Nation,..and founded as such, maybe you can answer my question...I am an Evangelical Christian from Africa and would like to know where in the New Testament does the Bible tell us to go create a "Christian Nation"? If the USA was created as a "Christian Nation" can some one explain how to "create" a "Christian Nation"...I have a number of Nations in Africa that I would certainly love to have them made "Christian Nations" like Somalia or Sudan? Could the experiment of a "Christian Nation" be repeated with such success like the American "Christian Nation" in Somalia?
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Posted By: Airforce/Army @ 04/09/2009 9:35:58 AM
My wife just mentioned how smart the founding fathers were to include the word GOD and not Christ, Buddah, Allah, etc so that ALL religions could be included because all religions believe in a higher Being. Those who do not believe in God or religion alreaady have the right to believe that . and do not need the indication or acknowledgement of that freedom . RELIGION was the main contention in that day in Europe from where most of our founding fathers came. Today you still have the right to NOT believe but the indication of God as a standard stamp of religious freedom is stiill a welcome sight. to many.
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Posted By: airjackie @ 04/10/2009 2:57:50 PM
We watched and prayed with Bill Clinton when he committed a sin. As Republicans used God's name to destroy him. Bush took the extra step as he said God wanted him to be President. We listen to Republicans used God in every corruption action they did. We watched Foley, Criag, Vitters, Cheney and others do Satan's work and get cheered for it. Bush used God's name to kidnap innocent men/woman/children then torture/rape/ even murder them. We watch Bush in God's name invade Iraq and kill 151,000 people as the slept all in God's name. The Church's had an office in the White House as it was no longer about God but about money. We saw Priest preach of sin then commit it themselves. The Church no longer preached the word of God but Work for Satan for the Greed of Money. People begain to see as Satan often does he used these so called honest leader for the pass 8 years to do his work. Now the true Christians see how easy it was for those to even go along with killing Jesus as we easily believed the Bush Administration and the Churches.
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Posted By: dadoftim @ 04/10/2009 3:17:21 PM
All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God, Christians are not sinless just forgiven.
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:13:43 AM
Perfect, now they can go about raping altar boys, and claiming exemption!
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:13:06 AM
Er, no evidence of this God thing or this sin things. Stop deluding yourself
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Posted By: buskin @ 04/10/2009 3:30:54 PM
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Posted By: dadoftim @ 04/10/2009 3:18:11 PM
All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God, Christians are not sinless just forgiven.
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Posted By: fallison @ 04/08/2009 11:29:17 AM
It is amazing how much the president affects the beliefs of the citizens. While 71% of the populace thought the U.S. was a Christian nation in 2005 only 62% espouse that belief now. And this was reinforced vocally by Obama himself in Turkey this week when he proclaimed that the U.S. is NOT a Christian nation. I wonder what we are and where we are going as we lose our identity...
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:12:16 AM
Wow! Are you really that uninforned when it comes to US history?
Look at the Treaty of Tripoli 1797. You'll find that most of the founders agree with Obama. Founders, because the US became a Republic in 1792 with the Constitution that was ratified by most of these people.
"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
And here you are, a revisionist Christian!
LOL at your uneducated rants! -
Posted By: hooridian2 @ 04/10/2009 3:49:22 PM
Obama is in fact a leader. Being a leader is not good enough. Hitler was a leader, N. Korea, Iran, etc. all have leaders. Be careful who you follow.
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Posted By: 21455b @ 04/08/2009 12:05:57 PM
Lose 'our' identity?? That's fine if 'your' identity is tied up with religion. But, as this study points out, more and more Americans are breaking the ties between identity and fantasy. I applaud his stance, and agree that no nation should proclaim itself a ________ nation (fill in the religious blank). What about we Americans who are not Christian? I assume that, since we do not agree with your views, then we are wrong, and therefore not worthy of equal representation...
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Posted By: csishark @ 04/11/2009 8:33:13 AM
Christians are being influenced not to discuss their religion under duress so now the poll is becoming less and less accurate. Christians are running for cover right now because of persecution that is not reported and an atmosphere of people who will dismiss, rebuke or verbally and physically assault them simply for speaking their belief. Where Christianity is growing is in an increasing underground movement or and also a youth movement driven by the Christian music scene. I urge you to go to any society where Christians are not present and observe the differences first hand. We are not a threat, no true Christian seeks to force your belief, we will be the people that will hold your society together or rebuild it after it falls as history has shown again and again.
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Posted By: bkrummel @ 04/11/2009 2:39:35 PM
"Christians are running for cover right now because of persecution that is not reported and an atmosphere of people who will dismiss, rebuke or verbally and physically assault them simply for speaking their belief."
You seriously think that Christians, a majority of the population, are being persecuted. Do you know of any cases where Christians are jailed or losing their jobs or banned from some establishments for their faith? Some persecution you are experiencing. Are you having your rights be taken away for engaging in behavior you are okay with but others' think is wrong? In not, go talk to the gays about your persecution. Are you forced denounce God as part of your patriotism? In not, tell the atheist who are proud Americans but are forced to acknowledge God on our coins and in our pledge about your persecution. You push your faith onto others through public policy and our national identity and then we people complain about you doing this you claim that you are being persecuted? Why, because we don't want you to vote your faith? Get real.
"I urge you to go to any society where Christians are not present and observe the differences first hand."
Yea, typical Christian patronizing. Act as if your faith is superior. (I better you are going to claim I am persecuting you by calling you patronizing.)
"We are not a threat, no true Christian seeks to force your belief, we will be the people that will hold your society together or rebuild it after it falls as history has shown again and again."
No, you don't seek to force my belief. You just put your faith into public policies that I have to live with, effectively mandating people to follow your faith. Then you patronize me saying that you Christians "will hold society together or rebuild it after it falls". But no, you don't force your faith on me and I am persecuting you. You are full of it.-
Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:04:30 AM
Christians like to nail themselves to the cross (and hence the perceived persecution). Peaks around Easter!
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Posted By: Vanamali @ 04/11/2009 6:58:46 PM
you are right about the word cult - a cult to me is where they threaten you with dire consequences if you leave and promise you goodies if you stay. On this issue the abrahamic religions like christinity and islam certainly quality. their god runs segregated heaven limite to members only while non-members are threatened with hell. so pedophiles, murderers, rapists get heaven as long as they repent, but people like Mahatma Gandhi and Einstein get hell. These are the teachings of a cult.
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:03:49 AM
Exactomundo!
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Posted By: sonrisemusic @ 04/10/2009 1:36:22 PM
Newsweek's editors are continually showing their liberal, secular bias regarding the actual expansion of Christianity in the US and around the world.
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:02:52 AM
You are quit the ignoramus, if all you can do is repeat the radio Republicans' tired old lies!
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Posted By: superchick70 @ 04/11/2009 11:59:35 PM
Exactly!!! Well said!
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 1:00:11 AM
Enter Your CommentJ H Christopher was a content human, and as he grew out of his teens,
and came of beer-drinking age, he met Sally, and they decided to
procreate.
Together they had two children: Burt and Tameka.
One day, J H decided to take his lovely wife to dinner. This was the
first time they were leaving both Burt and Tameka behind, and decided
to hire the services of the neighborhood teenage babysitter Gunther.
Gunther was a troubled teen having gotten in trouble all around the
neighborhood, TPing houses, urinating on some neighbor's lawn, etc.
But JH really liked the kid, and so it was arranged. 16 year old
Gunther to watch 4 and 7 year old Burt and Tameka.
Before they left, J H brought his shotgun down from the attic, loaded
it, took the safety off, and left it in the center of the family
room. He then proceeded to explain to Burt and Tameka that a gun was
dangerous, and under no circumstances were they to touch it at all.
He warned that using the shotgun could result in death*, and that they
will suffer for the rest of their lives.
JH and Sally left for their date, with Gunther in charge.
After a few rounds of Etch-a-Sketch, Nintendo, Doctor, and Play doe,
Tameka's eyes shifted to the gun. She wanted to play with it, but was
reminded of the grave consequences. Gunther noticed her curiosity and
encouraged her to try the shotgun.
"But it'll be deadly, and I do not want to kill anyone", she said.
"You won't, trust me" said Gunther.
"Don't, daddy will be mad!" whined Burt, but Tameka said it would be
OK. Burt reluctantly agreed.
Tameka played with it, and after a while, squeezed the trigger. As
complete random chance would have it, she shot her brother in the leg.
Burt let out blood-curdling screams, and hearing this the friendly
neighbor rushed over, and immediately called the 911 folks (Noah Wylie
and co.), and called JH.
JH was furious when he got back, and instead of watching Noah Wylie
and co., he went to check out the footage on the hidden video camera
he had installed.
He collected his thoughts, and then let Tameka and Burt have it. He
vowed that they will be punished for the rest of their lives, for
disobeying his. "I told you not to play with that loaded shotgun, and
you wanted to be just like daddy. For this you shall suffer physical
abuse for the rest of your life. So shall your kids". As Burt tried
to protest "But, I had noth...", JH dismissively ignored his pathetic
excuses. "You shall leave my house as soon** as you are better"
Gunther was not spared either. "You shall never baby-sit my kids
again, you shall have no purpose but to TP houses and urinate on that
friendly neighbor's lawn!" was the cruel (and unusual) punishment
handed to him, and was asked to get out of his sight.
Gunther complied.
(Five years elapse)
Gunther turns 21, and JH decided to take him out for a beer.
"That Burt of yours
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 12:59:07 AM
a
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Posted By: Simpleton @ 04/12/2009 12:58:55 AM
a
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Posted By: superchick70 @ 04/11/2009 11:52:50 PM
Hello....does anyone else think it's a "coincidence" that the front page of newsweek has a cross with this sensational article....hmmm and on what week...let's see...EASTER!!! wow..how original.. It's so sad to me that a news magazine doesn't feel they have enough talented reporters to come up with real stories. They might as well have had brittany spears on the cover. Same sensational, ugly reporting tactics. Very sad! I wonder how come they won't report on the decline of Islam, or Judiasm....oh no!!! never, much less during the week of Ramadan, or during Yom Kippur!!! I won't buy a magazine that does not have moral reporting standards...and obviously that is hard to come by these days!!!!
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