Faith, Fear and the Wages of Columbine

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  • Posted By: Real360 @ 04/19/2009 3:11:29 PM

    I can't believe the iinane comments on this article, especially those of one jimmizee0328. You dare insult men of the Cloth who were just doing their job just because you decided to worship firearms instead of Christ. You can hide behind your Second Amendment curtain the rest of your life (and don't wave the First Amendment in my face either. It's not freedom of speech when you defame people opposed to your propaganda), but when you mock and dehumanize the Columbine victims and the people who minister to them, you are no better than Harris and Klebold. You've really fell on your own revolver, because you sound like the outlaws you say will benefit from gun control laws. So keep on fighting those "criminals" that advocate gun control laws, Pal. Either way, you will get what's coming to you. And if you continue to mock those that are just doing their job, God help your soul.

    • Posted By: jimmizee0328 @ 04/19/2009 3:19:58 PM

      My soul is just fine and will be in the afterlife. But thanks you so much for your unfounded concern. Not once did I insult a man of the cloth. Nor did I mock any victims. I have the deepest of sympathy for the victims and their families. I might pay you to read more carefully before you make judgements. I am fighting for the law abiding citizen. And if you want to make me into a criminal for that, so be it.

  • Posted By: news555 @ 04/19/2009 3:17:51 PM

    So true, that we need to stop bulling others, because it causes discord. However, we should also stop the tendency to "do as we please" or phrased it in another way "do whatever pops in one's head", we need to start acting humanly and control our behavior. You know, the only solution is the brotherly kind of thing. For every bad act, an innocent person or the future will ultimately pay for that act. Selfishness was part of the mores of the ones doing the crime. (I understand their family have left but will not apologize to the victims and that is shameful)

  • Posted By: valhallaarwen69@hotmail.com @ 04/19/2009 3:12:21 PM

    I for one am sick and tired of folks acting like religion is the answer everything. It's not. If that was the case, why are there wars done in the name of God (regardless of religion). I knew when this happened that those two boys had to have been bullied at some point. I for one was not bullied all the time, but when I was threatened by the new girlfriend of an ex-boyfriend in high school, I told my uncle(my dad's sister convinced my parents sent me to Los Angeles to go to high school, I am from Louisiana) and he went to school, had a talk with the principal and the two of them could not speak a word to me or else they would have been expelled. The next year, the girl apologized to me. The boy I discovered wound up in jail for drugs. My point is that I never had a problem because I went to the principal who listened to me. But the problem is that there are a lot of kids who never get help even when they ask for it. I must say I have seen athletes get away with a lot and that is the problem. Popular kids get out of a lot. Also I have learned that even when I was in high school in Louisiana, I got in trouble for cursing in class (I was arguing with another girl and the teacher happened to hear me-- instead of explaining to the teacher, I just took the punishment) ,I was send to the disciplinarian and got out of it due to the fact that I was in ROTC (yes, I do believe that was part of it), plus I apologized to the teacher and got an overnight suspension.
    If religion (really christianity is the answer) explain why religious folks are committing crimes like crazy (see Tracy California incident). If religion is the answer, why are there so many divorces of Christian folks (see Mel Gibson, Newt Gingrich etc.), If religion is the answer, why are families being killed by the fathers? If religion is the answer, why are ministers committing crimes? If religion is the answer why are some of the molesters/child rapists showing up on Dateline to catch a predator (I believe a rabbi and minister showed up)? Explain.

  • Posted By: ddgwin @ 04/19/2009 3:08:02 PM

    The pastor who performed Kleibolds funeral is an example of someone truly trying to live God's word. When he called the parents of Dylan Kliebold the lonliest people in the world he showed his empathy and his ability to see their pain. It is easy to love the good. It takes a real man of God to love the sinner. It never ceases to amaze me how some participants of the evangelical movement are among the most mean spirited people in our world. These people who are supposedly devoted to trying to live a christ-like life. The pastor that used an incorrect rumor to write a book and gain converts should be ashamed. In fact, his life has born the fruit of his heart. He became mentally ill, lost his post, and his church's attendance has dropped by almost half. "By their fruits you will know them" This was a terrible tragedy. Its affects have had a ripple affect that i'm sure continue to this day. I still remember when I lived in Denver, a year or two after the tragedy, hearing about the depressed mother of one of the slain children, walking into a gun shop, buying a gun and shooting herself on the spot. This is not an argument in favor of gun control. It is just an example of how a tragedy such as columbine has far reaching affects . Affects that live on and impact peoples lives. God bless the pastor who risked unpopularity to follow the dictates of his conscience and shame on the evangelical opportunist who used a tradedy to fill his church with converts and his pockets with cash.

  • Posted By: rsaenz @ 04/19/2009 1:57:37 PM

    Colombine happened because of bullies in schools. As sad as it is, it has not changed anything in schools. Kids still get bullied and teachers turn a blind eye. These things will continue to happen so long as society stops and listens to kids who are bullied.

    Stop the bullying!!!!

    • Posted By: jimmizee0328 @ 04/19/2009 3:07:02 PM

      The bullying issue is one that is very important to me. I am the father of 7 kids, 5 of them still in school. And have raised them in 3 different school districts. The last of which we have been in for 6 years and will probably remain here. In all 3 school districts I have seen the bullying every day. And not always directed at my kids. And yes the teachers and principal turn a blind eye. But what I think needs to be addressed even more is the fact that, in the majority of cases, if the faculty pays any attention at all it is the kids being bullied who get punished for defending themselves! This is insane! In a recent incident where one of my boys, a first grader was involved, another kids was punching a kicking him. When my son defended himself he was given detention. And the bully was not punished. My son was told that violence would not be tolerated. But the other kid was given a free pass to do it again. And this is not an isolated incident. I see this all week long involving kids besides my own. There has to be a preventative mindset among the teachers and the faculty members in the schools before this will ever stop.

  • Posted By: news555 @ 04/19/2009 3:05:27 PM

    How very sad. But some misnomers were blasted. Post Traumatic Syndrome is due to stress and not genes. There are no inferiors as been taught for centuries.

  • Posted By: bgmnyhustla @ 04/19/2009 2:49:13 PM

    imagine the hell those kids went thru though they were picked on in school there whole life i would have snapped on some people if iwas being picked on yes killing them was not how but i know a few asswhippings would have been passed to those bullies. we need to teach our kids not to bully because this *** is the result and dont say it was because they have easy access to guns because im 17 years old i am an avid hunter and fisher ishot my plenty share of guns such as the infamous ak-47 can break guns down and build them up myself but when i get picked i dont pick up my guns i dish out an asswhoopin not a bullet but i also have never been pushed to the point these kids were it wasnt all there fault but there was no reason to kill

  • Posted By: bgmnyhustla @ 04/19/2009 2:48:14 PM

    imagine the hell those kids went thru though they were picked on in school there whole life i would have snapped on some people if iwas being picked on yes killing them was not how but i know a few asswhippings would have been passed to those bullies. we need to teach our kids not to bully because this *** is the result and dont say it was because they have easy access to guns because im 17 years old i am an avid hunter and fisher ishot my plenty share of guns such as the infamous ak-47 can break guns down and build them up myself but when i get picked i dont pick up my guns i dish out an asswhoopin not a bullet but i also have never been pushed to the point these kids were it wasnt all there fault but there was no reason to kill

  • Posted By: katoneth @ 04/19/2009 2:21:08 PM

    Some people need to learn to move on. Why do people feel the need to let one moment define their lives, and even more than that, let a moment in someone elses life impact them. Yes it was a bad moment,but move on. Bad things happen every day, so what. I feel sorry for the people who lost someone, but every one has lost someone or will lose someone, it is called life, deal with it, or kill yourself so you don't have to. I am tired of hearing about all this crap. And stop blaming it on guns, you can kill someone with a knife, bat, pipe, even a spoon. If someone wants to kill someone they will find a way. MOVE ON AND QUIT BORING THE REST OF US!!!!!

  • Posted By: Adam Eve @ 04/19/2009 2:16:16 PM

    Excellent article and very well written. What is ocuring here is known as cognitive dissonance. This is when what we want to believe does not match reality. Faith is in the absence of evidence what we fill the void of our knowledge to keep our fears at bay. As our knowledge increases, our beliefs evolve in response. In this instance the firsthand knowledge of such horrific events causes these men of seemingly strong faiths, and probably because of the strengh of their convictions, to ask very hard questions of this faith. This is not a weakness but a strength that drives humanity to change the very ideas that are taught as immutable. If we did not have this abilty we would still be burning witches and slavery would not have ended.

  • Posted By: miz_ashlah_rae @ 04/19/2009 2:11:33 PM

    I remember this tragic day. I was only 10 or 11 years old. For such a young child having to hear about this is just so incredible that a lot of people probably could not even fathom the things that were going through my mind! I got the chance to meet a survivor of the Columbine shootings when she came to our high school, Altoona Area High School in Pennsylvania. By this time, I was 18. It just was amazing to see this strong young woman stand up in front of all of these teenagers & parents to talk about her experience that day when she was in the library with her friends .. she got to survive. Everyday I think about the words she spoke to us & what she had to go through just to survive. This all happened because of the bullying in schools. If we all stopped to think about what we were doing or saying to other students, the bullying might actually come to a close. We have to think about what these families all across the country have to go through everyday without having their loved one there anymore. Just stop the bullying! Maybe we could make a difference!

  • Posted By: ropescan @ 04/19/2009 10:39:13 AM

    Blaming guns for Columbine shooting, is like blaming forks & spoons, for Rosie Odonnell being so fat.

    • Posted By: GeorgeReston @ 04/19/2009 11:35:29 AM

      Granted, fingers make great substitutes for knives and forks when eating a ton of food is your goal. But had Harris and Klebold been limited to the use of their fingers, they could have never killed that many people that quickly. To deny that guns make mass killing possible and efficient is absolutely absurd.

      • Posted By: ropescan @ 04/19/2009 1:50:22 PM

        Just their fingers could have made little or big bombs, or poison the cafeteria food, theres tons of stuff just in your house thats poisinous.U dont need a gun to kill people, or a lot of people. Its nutty people that kill people. Gasoline is at every gas staion, petrol bombs are the savior of partisans of France, ask the Nazis.The mind and fingers are the potential for BAD weapons, if that human is deranged.

        • Posted By: GeorgeReston @ 04/19/2009 2:09:48 PM

          They had access to all of those things that you mentioned but they used guns instead. Why? Because guns are exceptionally efficient killiing tools. If the other things you mention as being equivalent to guns in killing efficiency (portability, transportability, ease of use, reliability, kill potential) as guns, why don't the armed forces replace guns with the things you mentioned? Again, just admit that the availability of guns makes crimes such as Columbine etc. more likely, but you're willing to live with that risk in exchange for easy access to guns.

      • Posted By: martin de porres @ 04/19/2009 11:56:05 AM

        It is to easy to point fingers at firearms for every killing there is in the united states. those kids had access to chemicals at home or at walmart to kill the entire school. Granted firearms are designed to kill human or animal, but the problem is what drove those kids to do such a massacre.Even if they had not had acces to guns they would of found a way to poison people. High School and Junior High are tough times but there is no reason to go on a killing spree.

        • Posted By: GeorgeReston @ 04/19/2009 12:36:18 PM

          Those kids did have access to chemicals at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc. They didn't use chemicals because guns made the job much, much easier. As one poster below noted, the bombs these kids made didn't work. What the posted neglected to add was that the guns these kids had did work. Don't be silly with this. Just admit that the availability of firearms increases the chances that these types of crimes (Columbine, VaTech, Paducah, Jonesboro, etc.) will occur and that easy access to firearms is worth the added risk.

  • Posted By: miz_ashlah_rae @ 04/19/2009 2:06:46 PM

    I was just very young when all of this happened. I was about 10 or 11 years old. It still had such a great impact on my life because it just amazed me that this had to happen to kids that were just going through their day of school. At my high school, Altoona Area High School, we actually had a survivor of the shootings come to the school & talk about her experiences that day. By this time, I was 18. Her story was just so incredible that it just runs through me everyday & I just couldn not imagie what she went through. I look up to this young woman for being so strong to talk about her experience that she went through at the library of Columbine. The cause of all of this stupidity is bullying, if it didn't happen, none of this would have ever happened. Please just stop the bullying, look what it has done to many families across the country!!!

  • Posted By: pray4peace @ 04/19/2009 1:48:59 PM

    There is something that came of this incident that could be considered a turning point for the youth of the world. A group of young people got together and developed the Victory Over Violence campaign. Please visit their web site at www.vov.com and read the pledge. Our global society is subject to violence at every turn. I applaud and support the young people who have dedicated themselves to peace and have determined to stop the speeding train and reverse the path of violence that has plagued humans from the beginning by using education, communication and cultural exchange programs. It will be a slow process, but if we all get onboard from now on, things really can change.

  • Posted By: alur7 @ 04/19/2009 1:28:58 PM

    Good gosh. In the face of tragedy, people call this a spiritual awakening. If religion was the answer, there would not be tragedies like this. Religions serve to calm average people, but they do nothing to alter basic human behavior for the masses. While people are willing to kill over various nuances of their delusional beliefs, they are not controlled to the point that religion or even secutlar laws would prevent tragedies like Columbine. The two ministers need to stop taking on the grief of mankind. Their guilt is programmed by delusional beliefs, and someone needs to rescue them from their own self-destruction.

    Religions blame extraordinatary, dispictable behavior on some exterior "evil" or the "devil." This is basic human behavior and cannot be predicted nor prevented.

    • Posted By: be.theone @ 04/19/2009 1:47:20 PM

      Your last comment is dead on. This is basic human behavior and cannot be predicted. That comment alone though gives reason why there should be religion and belief in God. If we cannot believe in something greater than ourselves and this is as good as it gets for us to be human than we all should carry guns and be scared of what is around the corner. With a belief system you know that there is something greater than this and can look beyond this world and know that there is greater meaning to life. To put so much pressure on religion to be the cure for everything is beyond reason though because sin reigns. This world is a dark place with only one hope and that is the hope that their is a life after this with Christ as our savior regardless of what happens here.

    • Posted By: be.theone @ 04/19/2009 1:46:41 PM

      Your last comment is dead on. This is basic human behavior and cannot be predicted. That comment alone though gives reason why there should be religion and belief in God. If we cannot believe in something greater than ourselves and this is as good as it gets for us to be human than we all should carry guns and be scared of what is around the corner. With a belief system you know that there is something greater than this and can look beyond this world and know that there is greater meaning to life. To put so much pressure on religion to be the cure for everything is beyond reason though because sin reigns. This world is a dark place with only one hope and that is the hope that their is a life after this with Christ as our savior regardless of what happens here.

  • Posted By: nancysj@hotmail.com @ 04/19/2009 1:46:38 PM

    Jesus, came to this earth to deliver us from anything and everything that can take us into slavery or bondage, that includes, depression, PTSD, trauma, abuse, grief, and so much more. Jesus heals, delivers us, and saves us. These pastors are hurting, the word says, "seek me and you will find me," it also says, that in our weakness, God's power is made perfect! Though we may not understand every horrible thing that happens in this world, we can take great assurance in the fact, that JESUS LIVES, and HE will take every bad thing that happens to us, and turn it around for our Good, every time. He also tells us to cast every burden and anxiety on the to the LORD, He tells us all our battles are for HIM to fight, not for us. In the meantime, we press in to the LORD ever so closer, and invite HIS healing in our life when we are hurting and HE will deliver us whether it be from grief, or anything else. HE did it for me, HE will do it for them. They just have to reach out to HIM, and give over the burden of grief, and LEt GOD in to heal ! I pray God's strength, joy, peace, love, and healing to overflow in abundance over these two pastors and every person involved in this horrific tragedy.Amen God is bigger then all our problems, hurts, and sorrows! Just turn to HIM, and HE will help you!

  • Posted By: orbust @ 04/19/2009 1:45:06 PM

    people are strange when yor a stranger, faces look ugly when your alone, women seem wicked when your unwanted, streetare up even when your down. when your strange faces come out of the rain, when your strange no one remembers you name...A bit of truth to this classic DOORS rip add Satan to the mix and ? we all need to join hands and pledge to stop the hate.

  • Posted By: orbust @ 04/19/2009 1:32:23 PM

    People are strange when your a stranger, faces look ugly when your alone, women seem wicked when your unwanted,streets are up when down. when yor strange faces come out of the rain, when your strange no one remembers your name. A bit of truth to this classic DOORS rip! adding satan into the mix, and you see what produces, we all have to join hands and pledge to stop hate.

  • Posted By: bsktballma @ 04/19/2009 12:48:18 PM

    I have a child who was a student at columbine at that time. One of his friends was in the library with Cassie and he
    told me that she "DID" tell the shooters that she believed in GOD. My family has felt the pain of that time, daily. God
    is Good and without him we would not be able to continue our daily walk.

    • Posted By: valenzuela@charter.net @ 04/19/2009 1:31:21 PM

      I STRONGLY AGREE!! Every time we turn around, somebody is trying to strip GOD from us, schools,government, even from marriage! They turn the other check to GOD, and then when something happens, they want to know where is GOD? We are like the kid who wants to touch the hot stove. You can only say it's hot so many times before you say "you don't trust me, go ahead touch it " GOD is the Father of all fathers!Maybe we should start to listen again as our founders of this nation wanted us to do.Look at what happened to all the other nations that stopped listening(they were destroied).I hope that you help me to pray for our leaders, that they may look to GOD for guidance in leading this nation, because this is great nation that has my love!

  • Posted By: misshydro @ 04/19/2009 1:25:27 PM

    Dont be blaming the guns and dont put all the blame on the two shooter eighter.. They were victims too.. They were picked on and bullied in school..And from the looks of it no body help them..If a kid get picked on/bullied and no one will help the kid will get depressed and will crack/resort to somthing drastic to stop the proublem/bully..Schools should stepup against kids being pickedon bullied and pushed around in there schools..Police should get invoild too,making it a crime to bully in schools..If we wouldve had law on this back then,this wouldnt of happend..and blamming the parents isnt wright eighter..there also victims too.

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