I agree with Marcos...and I would add that their base of operations should be determined and then bomb the crap out of them. Send a message...piracy will not be tolerated. The consequences...severe. The action...swift. No namby pamby stuff.
It will take a lot more than SEALs and snipers to defend global shipping and American prestige. What Obama can learn from the French.
I agree with Marcos...and I would add that their base of operations should be determined and then bomb the crap out of them. Send a message...piracy will not be tolerated. The consequences...severe. The action...swift. No namby pamby stuff.
Only a "green lite" is needed. Plans are already in place. This is the "attitude adjustment" they need.
Narrow shipping lanes? A pre-emptive strike? These guys are animals, and the only language they understand comes from the barrel of a GUN.
Pirates have never attacked a French ship ??? Duh..... I thought the french were cowards ???
Obviously, the somalis are very afraid of them ! and for good reason, we have exellent commandos.
Anyone has heard of the foreign legion ?? these are not soldiers you want to play with, believe me.
The idea that the French are cowards is one of the biggest myths in the American psyche...despite the fact that we wouldn't even BE a country if it hadn't been for the French.
Niether would the France - twice
Bravo! Well spoken
It is important for the world to act against piracy. The total area of sea to be covered is many millions of square miles. All the world's navies won't be able to preempt this low grade warfare. A single naval vessel would have to cover many thousands of square miles. What's needed is.
1) Take the attack to the coastline. The pirates will have to refuel, take rest etc. The worlds armies can easily monitor with satellites every vessel that berths in Puntland.
2) It's easier to preemptively bring down the pirate vessels when they are on the coast once they are identified to be so.
3) Legal issues can be sorted out at the United Nations, as I don't believe any govt would support the pirates at that forum
And yes, "officially" Muslim operations were involved in this. But it was French commandos who masterminded the operation (the Saudis are not that stupid). Read "The Siege Of Mecca - The Forgotten Uprising In Islam Holiest Shrine and The Birth Of Al Quaeda", by Yaroslav Trofimov. Now calm down and go wipe your nose, "I'm-not-a-Pakistani-hellboy".
By the way, yes we do learn from the French and vice versa. The SEALS are known to train with the French Foreign Legion (no, not all of them are foreigners) in jungle and desert warfare of French Guyana and Djibouti where the Legion maintain training posts. You can't get better than these two units.
The fact is the French excel at this type of operation. When the
Great Mosque at Mecca was overtaken by terrorists in 1979 (many see it as Al Quaeda's first manifestation), guess who was called on to clean up the mess? And they were many more after that (check out the French foreign Legion's lethal intervention in Kolweisi, 1978. A classic). We in the US don't know that (but we love to poke fun at the frogs) because terrorism wasn't our problem before 9/11.
The article was fair and well written. We CAN learn from the French in this, they do not fear to let loose with the Foreign Legion if needed, let alone their counter-terrorist unit. But regardless, are not the maritime laws concerning piracy written during the 18th and 19th centuries still on the books? IF so, why are we debating who we are going to turn the pirates over to in the first place, and just have summery courts on the high seas? The act of piracy was a death offense. Period. Why are we dancing around these people? Because their country is a mess, and they are hungry? There are no excuses here.
Dude, the French Army is a lot more than the Legion and a single Counter terrorist Unit, learn about their Alpines Hunters, Paras, Colonials troops , Metropolitan Infantery, Cavalery and else...And I just talk about the Army not the French Air Forces or their Navy...
Sounds like you just named two.
The only means to reduce terrorism at sea is with lethal force. Every country needs to step up to the plate. Ships with volitile cargo should have rapid response escort ships to take out any pirates before they get within 100 yds. of the mother ship. This is practical and cost effective. All crews should be properly trained in weapons and defense technics. A comprehensive repsonse is required to bring this terrorism as sea to a halt. Dead pirates never attack again.
"dead pirates never attack again"
kinda like how "a dead terrorist cant terrorize"? but a dead terrorist/pirate is a great recruitment tool for friends and family of said dead terrorist/pirate too eh?
Hot-heads are unable to think that far ahead. Their solution to every problem is to either kill it, F--k it, eat it or sell it for profit. Scary people!!!
This ain't the West. Somalia has an honor-based culture in which anyone who does not defend himself and his property has no honor. People wthout honor deserve whatever they get..
So what's your solution, Nimo?
Agreed. And, that is exactly what the article said.
"terrorism at sea "
Jesus H Christ. It's piracy, common thievery.
"Terrorism at sea"...you sound like a broken record. Everything, EVERYTHING is "terrorism" to you.
This happened in the 60's and was it reported in the News NO!
From 14:03 until 14:10, the Israeli air assault unleashed hell, concentrating a coordinated strafing attack first of bombs, then of rockets, armor-piercing bullets, and napalm on the ship's communication antennas and crew. Basically these fighters exhausted all of their ordnance and ammunition on a ship they knew could not return fire before they left. (3) page 16 and (4). Israel later confirmed that multiple Mirage fighter-bombers and Dassault Mystyres swept-wing fighters were used, and this was confirmed from photographs taken by Liberty sailors. During the assault, the aircraft jammed all frequencies so the Liberty was only able to communicate during the short intervals when the Israeli rockets were in-flight, as the fighters had to switch off jamming temporarily. (1) page 36. Also during the assault, the American flag was shot away, but before the torpedo attack began, it was replaced with a larger 8x13 foot version. (3) page 19.
Between 14:24 and 14:28, the three torpedo boats arrived in visual range and were reported as flying Israeli flags. (3) page 19 and (1) page 36.
At 14:31, both the USS Liberty and the torpedo boats opened fire at each other. At least five (5) torpedoes were launched, and two (2) torpedoes made contact at about 14:35, and later mechanical analysis revealed one of the torpedoes hit in an area where a few meters in either direction would likely have broken the ship in half. Twenty-five (25) Americans working in the SIGINT section were killed instantly by this torpedo. Following the torpedoes, the Israeli boats raked the USS Liberty with cannon and machine-gun fire, shooting at any visible sailor above deck. At one point, the Israelis concentrated their fire on the boiler, trying to cause an explosion and sink the ship. The torpedo boats were later confirmed to be Ayah class motor torpedo boats, each carrying two (2) torpedoes, and (4) cannons. Before the ship was scrapped, there were 861 holes larger than a man's fist and thousands of 0.50 caliber machine gun holes. (3) pages 19-20, (2) pages 7-8, (1) page 37-38. Same as the fighter attack, basically the Israelis expended all of their ordnance and then just opened up with machine-guns, possibly to keep the sailors from activating a new radio line. They threw everything they had at the USS Liberty, trying to sink a defenseless vessel that they had confirmed to be American.
http://members.greenpeace.org/blog/greenpeaceusa_blog/2009/04/16/here_there_be_pirates
(near the end)
Many are saying that the Italians are dumping nuclear waist in Somalia waters. And the Italians are working for the French to dump their waist.
My dear Mr. Dickey, how can you say this: "First, negotiate with the pirates and keep them talking. (For the legalistic Americans, this could be complicated by a problem with definitions. If the pirates are deemed to be terrorists or working with terrorists, then talks would be precluded. The United States does not negotiate with terrorists. So, for the moment at least, it's important that they be identified exclusively as criminals.) "
Were you paying attention when the United States not only negotiated with terrorists in Iraq but hired them and paid them as local armed "citizens" to promote the surge?
Pirates, like terrorists, are indeed criminals acting en masse and ought to be given no quarter, no chance to escape as Bin Laden and the Taliban did in Afghanistan. No need for endless war on terror or on piracy. But our leaders need to finish what they start and do it right.
This is great newsweek. You want be to believe our seals can learn from the French. The problem is, when our military goes in and takes care of business everyone accuses us of being the bullying bad guys ... including the French. I logged my military time, trained foreign troops and promise you, there are none better trained that US seals and special forces. Our guys just get to live under a lot more second guessing by our lovely liberals. Pull your head out NW.
Hmmm, a liberal gave the orders to shoot if necessary, and it seems as if it's not our soldiers that are incompetent, it's been our leaders. The reason we're looked at as the bad guy isn't because we snipe hijackers, it's because we invade and occupy countries that have something we want.
The reason we have been looked at as bad guys in the past is because we stand up for ourselves and put our interests first. Who knew all we had to do was roll over to the world, act like cowards, adopt European socialism, and give in to every opressive government to the point of bowing to their leaders. At leats when Iran has a full scale Nuclear Weapons sytem we can still be looked at as good guys.
the sky is falling on you again...
im sorry to see that.
Nimrod- Waa Waa why can't we all just get along? If we give in to everyone else then they will like me and thats all that matters
Go hug a tree, or get a shrink, but don't try to act intelligent it's not working.
brydges said:
"Nimrod- Waa Waa why can't we all just get along? If we give in to everyone else then they will like me and thats all that matters
Go hug a tree, or get a shrink, but don't try to act intelligent it's not working."
yes, because i want to "get along" with everyone. NOT. i say sink every single one of these pirates and let davey jones sort em out.... does that sound like im trying to get along with the pirates? seems to me to be far from that...
i wasnt trying to be intelligent. i was trying to be funny, and it pissed you off, so apparently it worked and i DID get the better of you now didnt i? i wasnt calling you names or telling you to get a shrink... but thats what your rebuttal consists of... so based on your response, i and others could equate your level of maturity to a junior high student. hopefully your intelligence doesnt match the age that you act.
and i just might go hug a tree, just for you.
and you know, if we dont give in SOMETIMES, then no one else will cooperate with us. where ever you job is and whoever your co-workers are, no one wants to work with the stubbourn stuck up jack ass that is only out for his own interests.... why? becuase hes a stubbourn jack ass that is only looking out for himself. now take that analogy, and apply "work place" and "co-workers" in place of "countries" and "foreign leaders"... people like you are why other countries despise our attitude as a nation.
but yes, please continue to be as stubborn and arrogant as you please, thats your right. but remember, the more people you throw to the curb out of self righteousness, the less people there are willing to help you when you need it.
but hey, thanks for the un needed insults and condescending remarks, made me happy im not you.
peace to you and yours.
Typical delusional Libtard, your comments to you don???t anger me, I blog on this site because it amuses me to see all the crazys. No people I have such a low opinion for could bother me. You however claim not to care, yet write long winded responses to that fact. My point is if people like your self could just be honest to how you feel and not care so much about looking bad in the eyes of others, the world and you would be a better place.
I gotta say, I admire the energy of your raw hatred.
LOL!!!!!!
Posted By: brydges @ 04/15/2009 4:57:17 PM
"The reason we have been looked at as bad guys in the past is because we stand up for ourselves and put our interests first. Who knew all we had to do was roll over to the world, act like cowards, adopt European socialism, and give in to every opressive government to the point of bowing to their leaders. At leats when Iran has a full scale Nuclear Weapons sytem we can still be looked at as good guys."
any person that you have met that puts they're interests first before their friends or family, whats your opinion of them? do you trust them? do you want to converse, much less cooperate with them? would you go out of your way to help them if they needed it?
and please, PLEASE, explain how we are "rolling over to the world" and "acting like cowards"?
and im getting pretty tired of hearing people cry about how obama "bowed" to the leader of a country....
tell me, if the ruler of another country invited you into they're country AND they're home and it was customary in the culture you are visiting to bow to that person, would YOU continue to stand like the stereo-typical pride laden american? or would you instead, out of sheer respect for the culture and place you are in, bow to that person that has invited you in?
has anyone ever told you that your funny?
"any person that you have met that puts they're interests first before their friends or family, whats your opinion of them"
My opinion f them would be bad, just any idiot who puts the interest of foreigners before their friends, family, and country. I???m tired of week minded sheep that care more about being liked then taking care of their own.
PLEASE tell me how it???s ok to placate to thugs who support the abuse women just because you???re a democrat. Misguided impossible ideals are one thing, but being a hypocritical a** hole is another.
And since you are big and bad, you just take what you want. Is that what you are saying??
"The problem is, when our military goes in and takes care of business everyone accuses us of being the bullying bad guys ... including the French."
Except that they aren't accusing of us of doing anything. They're doing the same thing.
I believe it was a Liberal that sent our seals in.
And????????????????????? What are you trying to say?? Can't remember??
why is it that people (namely right wingers) keep forgetting that very obvious FACT?
These exchanges remind me of two little boys arguring about who is the baddest. Grow up fellows, this is the real world.
Great comment. Other than the military experience that I don't have, you took the words out of my mouth.
I am glad someone posted my thoughts for me! Thanks. Newsweek will print anything that sparks controversty
I am glad someone posted my thoughts for me! Thanks. Newsweek will print anything that sparks controversty
You mean "Cut-N-Run" isn't a valid long-term strategy? Someone needs to tell Obie stat!
Who cut and ran? Idiot.
You're hilarious. Who authorized the action? Oh, yeah. Obama.
You funny little partisan hack.
Use the 2 or 3 examples of the Q ships from WW1 and 2 and put just 5 Navy Seals (with shoulder fired rockets) on all American flagged ships in the area and I can assure you that the Somali taste for piracy in the area will decline overnight. Unfortunately we (the whole civilized world) have allowed piracy in the area to become a high reward low risk endeavor. Witness 4 boats attacked the day after we rescue the US boat Captain. France has nothing on the US in this area except a willngness to act.
Not true at all. France has the second best naval commando force on the Earth. (Second to the U.S.) It is called the Commando d'Action Sous-Marine Hubert, CASM. While it may be cute to talk about Freedom Fries and tanks going in reverse, the fact is the French don't mess around when it comes to hostages.
Please Note: "PIRATES" fall into the "TARGET" category.This should be explained to them,and they should acknowledge that they have been told.Then when they head out on one of these trips,knowing that NOT coming home is probably a very likely outcome,they may wish to alter their vocation.
Pirates perform an illegal task that puts them in the "target" category.It is my assumption that the paths that ships take in this area are designated for ship use,correct me if wrong.Therefore if individuals perform life threatening acts against those not acting against laws allowing their use in that area,then those performing life threatening acts against them should be dealt with by their own people and laws.Obviously the fact that piracy exists without recourse of any kind from their own country means it's obviously condoned by that country.It then means if they don't deal with it the victim must.If I
was legally in an area where I knew I was supposed to be safe but wasnt ,I'd be armed going there to protect myself from a threat to my life and I would "take out those threats".I can't help but condone the actions of snipers taking out theivery on the water.I also feel that if there's a way of locating these people on land via a bribe here and there,then do it.
These are kids 17 to 19 years old,who set them up or told them this was a way to make a living.Something is basically wrong here and I have to believe it's beyond kids.
time for our elected representatives to do what they were "hired" to do, represent!
the american people have no need to experience the moral stances of our representative, thier job is to do as we(the majority) wish, and we could care less what thier personal moral imperatives are, for those are exactly like thier sexual and religious preferences, personal and none of our business!
we have for generations been told to pay for trillions in military equipment to do certain jobs and the time of crisis is not the time to retink the plan that was made when we bought the bombs, planes, tanks etc.
use them, period! when we as a people are threatened, that is the specific job of those representative, nothing else will do!
This is an article that I agree with in its entirety. Among other things, we are we sopending as much as the next 25 countries on defense if we can't deal with such rabble?
no bid contracts is why we spend so much...
and that is a very good question.... and why are we not utilizing our navy more in these endeavors? why are we not working in conjunction with other countries that occupy the shores of these shipping lanes, much less other "modern" nations LIKE france/england/japan/india/china and any other country that has fallen victim to piracy?
everyone wants the piracy to end, and it has only been increasing so why not work together to bring these pirates down once and for all?
im sure for all intents and purposes these pirates could easily be labeled as terrorists, so why dont we just wage our "war on terror" on the high seas as well? i mean really crack down on these organizations like we have with jihadists?
hang all pirates at sea or just throw them over the side and let them swim. also if you know where the pirate ship sails from just level the port with a fuel oil bomb and let god sort them out once or twice would give them the idea it is not a good career being a pirate.
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