The Lawyer and The Caterpillar

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  • Posted By: Jurr @ 04/24/2009 11:15:12 AM

    New torturer photos coming out thanks to the ACLU FOIA request showing that this torture was very widespread and not isolated or used only on certain high value detainees.

    Bush wouldn't release the phots because ithey could incriminate the US for breaking the Geneva Convention. Chew on that one.

  • Posted By: goldmine @ 04/24/2009 10:48:19 AM

    What President Obama should do is aopolized to the terrorists for the torture, that's what he do best.

  • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/24/2009 9:28:35 AM

    it seems to be basically down to which court, US or international, will try cheney and the others. the info now is coming from ex staffers more than the memos. once the press get a name on a memo, it's only a matter of time that we'll know all they know. the next step is the ratting out process that will pare down the war criminal charges to those that broke the law. cheney will likely not be imprisioned because of his fragile. it will be ironic when he uses his heart condition to escape punishment rather than lie about his health as he did while in office.

  • Posted By: memo2 @ 04/24/2009 8:45:49 AM

    What is going to happen is this administration will destroy our democracy at any point !.........

  • Posted By: libertyfirst @ 04/23/2009 4:50:14 PM

    The Left sure does love selective prosecution and politically inspired truth commissions. Will you spare the noose for Pelosi, Kerry, and all the other Dems consenting pols who were fully aware of what the CIA was requesting and doing? Leave it to the Bush-hating crazies out there to conjure up a one-eyed view of what the truth is and what constitutes a crime. Every country uses "harsh interrogation" techniques if not outright blood-letting torture. Even Europe ( I know, shocking to you Lefties) -- to think otherwise is to be truly naive. However, less you think I am all for such things...I am not. In fact, I think such practices should immediately stop. But what is going on today is not an argument on the merits of whether to continue, but a political lynching that is sure to backfire. They all knew...Dems and Repubs....so either fry them all or be done with it and move on. Set a new precedent.

    • Posted By: John Dough @ 04/24/2009 12:08:14 AM

      Geez you will gut congress and many in the executive branch come to think of it how soon can we do it. Term limits are the answer get them out after 12 years in congress and 8 in the exec.

    • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/23/2009 5:02:24 PM

      fry them all if they knowingly ordered torture. knowing about something is not the same as ordering it. any elected official that knew about it and did nothing should be tossed out. anyone in a position to order torture and did should be charged. to prosecute someone who didn't take an active part is foolish and no conviction could ever be attained. the one thing all of us should not do is defend torture or those that knowingly broke the law. i'm proud to say i've never defended wrong doing by anyone. anyone who does must share in the responsibility for encouraging war crimes.

      • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/23/2009 6:09:25 PM

        your silence speaks a thousand words.

  • Posted By: Concerned Canadian @ 04/23/2009 9:40:26 PM

    Now I'm offended. I'm a proud Canadian and this stupid lesbian Janet Naplonatano , Secretary of US Homeland Security claims the terrorists that attacked the Twin Towers on Sept 11 and killed 3,000 people entered the States through the Canadian border. This is already been concluded this was never the case. Her apology was a non- apology. She has crossed the line and I'm asking for her immediate resignation. I want her fired and I want all the stupid gay liberal left wing nut job Democrats to all drop dead because you guys are ruining the world...destroy the USA as much as you like but leave us normal countries out of your big mess. Obama is a total joke...lock him up in the Oval Office...he's a dangerous stupid flake and you guys are stuck with him for the next 4 years...the USA is so screwed up. American soldiers coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan are called right wing terrorists by the Obama administration. In Canada, our soldiers who return from tour of duty in Afghanistan are called heroes. USA and the Democrats are real real stupid.
    Wanna know a secret ?....the rest of the world does not give a sqwat if USA tortures terrorists to get information to prevent further attacks that will kill more innocent civilians. What part of the word " DEFEND" does Obama not understand ? If I was a soldier in the field I would ask a captured Al-Qeada to give me info and if they don't I'll shoot them dead on the spot.....thats leadership OBAMA !!

    • Posted By: John Dough @ 04/23/2009 11:59:39 PM

      • Posted By: John Dough @ 04/24/2009 12:02:58 AM

        Amen!!! I wanted her fired before she was hired. She is a joke and Obama is a spineless whimp for keeping her blunder after blunder. SHE MUST GO!!! and GO NOW!!!

  • Posted By: Mark Thieme @ 04/23/2009 5:50:16 PM


    Don't tell me torture isn't effective.

    Last night the 12 year old grandson hid my reading glasses and refused to tell me where they were.

    Well, I dragged his sorry butt out to the garage and hooked him up to the car battery. After a few cranks on the old V-8, he was bawling, telling me every crime he had ever committed, every crime his friends had committed, and even made up a few before I sent him back to the house (detention).

    I know I feel safer sleeping at night knowing what I know about the crime in my neighborhood and that all the punks who roam the streets live in fear of me.

    You just don't know how good it feels until you do it yourself. Gets my patriotic juices flowing, so to speak.

    • Posted By: Mark Thieme @ 04/23/2009 6:09:18 PM


      BTW, this is sick stuff. Just thought we might do a little role-playing here.

      Not as cool as it is portrayed by the patriots, is it? Loved the guy who asked rhetorically what we ourselves might do in a similar circumstance.

      The fact that every human is capable of committing unspeakable atrocities, for whatever purpose, does not change the "reality": torture is as low as it gets... perverted beyond words. No redemptive purpose. Ever.

      Anyone who thinks it might be OK, anyone who orders it, anyone who gets blood under the fingernails committing the act, is a monster.

      • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/23/2009 8:38:30 PM

        you've nailed it mark. note; the rats have begun deserting the ship. this is one blog they can't nasty their way out of.

        no matter how many husseins, barry, birth certificate, shaking chavez' hand, muslin remarks, the torture issue remains. the latest ploy is that all of the members of the congress and senate are complicit. feeble and laughable. good night.

    • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/23/2009 6:07:53 PM

      much better, mark

  • Posted By: Mark Thieme @ 04/23/2009 5:15:04 PM


    Everyone who has a kind word for torture here, please publish your legal name and email address. (because we know you are brave courageous and bold)

    Anyone who is into S/M or bestiality first, please.

    CIA/AlQueda Limited is looking for a few sick men/women. (subs & doms will receive equal opportunity)

    Good way to get valuable job skills and get your grammar school tuition paid!


    Intelligent, and even nominally educated people who get lost on the way to a thoughtful discussion, finding themselves in a bad neighborhood, skim these boards and quickly know that only the lost and about to lose spew here call it home, but indeed it is bracing to read such crap in America.

    Ah... the smell of mucous in the morning!


    • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/23/2009 5:43:21 PM

      are you one of the lost, mark. a little over the top.

      • Posted By: Mark Thieme @ 04/23/2009 5:57:22 PM


        yes. it is. way over the top.

        Torture as an element of "reality" is more than over the top. It is inhuman; subhuman.

        As the auteur Sam Peckinpaugh said about his over the top films, "Everybody loves blood and guts until they smell it."

        • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/23/2009 6:07:09 PM

          you don't have to convince me mark. i fully agree with you. it was the s/m etc referrences that i was talking about. today fox news defined the torture as contraversial. last time i checked that didn't equal illegal. and so the cover up continues. by the end of the month, i expect many to roll over on cheney and the republicans will deny him like peter denied christ.

          • Posted By: Mark Thieme @ 04/23/2009 6:12:40 PM

            we can pray... we can hope. They did get Eichmann.

  • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/23/2009 5:35:57 PM

    today i saw bill bennet distancing himself from dick cheney. that is a very hopeful sign. the republicans should write to bennet and thank him for refusing to be dragged down.

  • Posted By: Mark Thieme @ 04/23/2009 5:19:23 PM

    Everyone who has a kind word for torture here, please publish your legal name and email address. (because we know you are brave courageous and bold)

    Anyone who is into S/M or bestiality first, please.

    CIA/AlQueda Limited is looking for a few sick men/women. (subs & doms will receive equal opportunity)

    Good way to get valuable job skills and get your grammar school tuition paid!


    Intelligent, and even nominally educated people who get lost on the way to a thoughtful discussion, finding themselves in a bad neighborhood, skim these boards and quickly know that only the lost and about to lose call it home, but indeed it is bracing to read such crap in America.

    Ah... the smell of mucous in the morning!

  • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/23/2009 5:06:49 PM

    anyone who cares for their country should be embarassed by cheney's criminal behavior and at the same time welcome the trial. in a free society we cannot allow some rouge to destroy everything we stand for.

  • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/23/2009 4:31:48 PM

    is it possible that cheney's complaints that the torture that did work has been shown to the public, help him in the pr battle but then be used to convict him in court? wouldn't it have been better to keep insisting that torture wasn't used. i think torture is illegal so why admit to it?

  • Posted By: Bella's a Pug @ 04/23/2009 4:28:53 PM

    is it possible that the war criminal trials could be held in an international court? if cheney refused to surrender, could he become a fugitive? would his heart condition exampt him from trial as it did when he got a referral from nam?

  • Posted By: pako @ 04/23/2009 2:21:05 PM

    It;'s a shame we've an argument between legislative and executive branches that can be mediated only by the Supreme Court. The ultimate question for anyone, including the President is, "Mr. Presidenet, which of the interrogation measures will you rule out when I have in my posession one of the poeple who kidnapped both your daughters?" It's that severe a choice which, Im afraid we can no longer avoid.

    • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/23/2009 4:04:19 PM

      "It's that severe a choice which, Im afraid we can no longer avoid."

      What a load of crap. So far, we've tortured people who had been out of circulation for months or years.

      Spare the Jack Bauer crap.

  • Posted By: pako @ 04/23/2009 3:48:29 PM

    It's a pity that the legislative and executive branches seem to be caught in a quandry that can only be mediated at the Supreme Court level. The ultimate question, beyond PC indignation, needs to be, "Mr. President, which interrogation measure would you rule out if I had in my hands one of the people who held captive both your daughters/"

  • Posted By: pako @ 04/23/2009 3:43:25 PM

    It's a pity that the legislative and executive branches seem to be caught in a quandry that can only be mediated at the Supreme Court level. The ultimate question, beyond PC indignation, needs to be, "Mr. President, which interrogation measure would you rule out if I had in my hands one of the people who held captive both your daughters/"

  • Posted By: pako @ 04/23/2009 2:17:51 PM

    It's a pity that the legislative and executive branches seem to be caught in a quandry that can only be mediated at the Supreme Court level. The ultimate question, beyond PC indignation, needs to be, "Mr. President, which interrogation measure would you rule out if I had in my hands one of the people who held captive both your daughters/"

  • Posted By: maggiejay @ 04/23/2009 2:11:11 PM

    I feel, as Americans, we are held to a higher standard than this. I firmly believe in upholding of the constitution and the torturing going on is like spitting in our fore-fathers faces. We should set the example.

  • Posted By: zephirdx @ 04/20/2009 7:26:12 AM

    Its sad really. These very people defend our "democratic media" and what do they get in return? The media wastes logical people's time and pulls the leash of simpletons to the cause of defending those who would mindlessly behead any one of us to prove a "point".

    I guess anyone who'd read or post here would agree, so I its probably futile, but this article is a waste of time, and quite frankly, just angers me that anyone would write this dribble up. Let the CIA do their thing. WAR is dirty business. As long as we aren't lopping off limbs and hanging them them out to dry, what's the problem? These people are responsible for the deaths of 3000+ American citizens, regardless of their level of involvement.

    I'm no Spec Ops or anything, but if it were up to me, I'd let them bleed out slowly over the course of a week. Water boarding is too good for them.

    • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 04/20/2009 2:37:50 PM

      They behead people, you hold them down and drown them, etc.

      I can't tell the difference. You're both thugs.

      • Posted By: John Dough @ 04/21/2009 11:49:18 PM

        Waterboarding is not drowning and causes no lasting harmful affects. This same technique is actually used on special force trainees in our and your military. As for us representing thuggery aggresive warfare and torture unlike you we have never taken over a country we defeated in war we helped rebuild those nations. Your country used brutal torture techniques not only against you enemies but against political dissenters too. Keep in mind Hussien tortured millions, murdered 500,000 of his own citzens gassed 5000 Kurds to death and was exporting terrorism. Maybe you could have invited him over for tea and BORED HIM TO DEATH. Europe will never learn from their twice failed appeasement policies the third failure will be a global destroyer.

        • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 04/22/2009 3:38:17 PM

          "Your country used brutal torture techniques not only against you enemies but against political dissenters too. Keep in mind Hussien tortured millions, murdered 500,000 of his own citzens gassed 5000 Kurds to death and was exporting terrorism."

          I'm not an Iraqi, you twit.

          • Posted By: John Dough @ 04/22/2009 4:19:21 PM

            The first sentence was directed at you the second facts about what a nice guy Hussien was to his people and country.

            • Posted By: Osama Bin Login @ 04/22/2009 5:28:18 PM

              And we're better? Perhaps, but only on a matter of scale.

        • Posted By: Jurr @ 04/22/2009 8:51:16 AM

      • Posted By: YOUSOCRAZY @ 04/20/2009 2:59:08 PM

        Great example of absurd exaggeration or hyperbole, but you did miss one of your chances to name call!

        • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 04/20/2009 3:10:06 PM

          Hyperbole? No, just the truth. America represents thuggery, torture, and aggressive warfare to the world.

          Your grandfathers and great-grandfathers must be rolling in their graves. They defeated Nazism, and their grandchildren emulated Nazis.

          • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 04/21/2009 5:29:53 PM

            America is no longer ruled by the GOP Party of hate. The Republican party, home of the neonazi and the KKK, have been removed from power. If a person loves his country, he should be afraid to change it. The GOP has on foot in the grave and the other on a roller skate and will soon be a distant memory. President obama bring the change that we all need. I'm not sure what country you're from, but i'm sure it also has a past that you wish wouldn't be repeated.

            • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 04/21/2009 5:34:11 PM

              Oh, I have no doubt that President Obama is a breath of fresh air...however, it's not over until the guilty are punished.

              • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 04/21/2009 5:51:31 PM

                Maybe they'll be some punishment and maybe not. That will hardly be the measure of our country's change. We didn't punish richard Nixon because, as president Ford put it, t"the country should begin to heal." If you took a poll of everyone in your country, you would find that if the question is put in a certain way, they would use torture. I'll ask you, and don't chicken out, if your country was on the verge of a nuclear disaster and you could prevent it by torturing a person to allow you to find and disarm the device, would you do it/ whether you answer yes or no, you must agree that millions would say yes. I'm not defending torture and hope the ones who ordered it are at least disgraced and maybe imprisioned, but i'm not so naive as to think many good people would use it if push came to shove.

          • Posted By: YOUSOCRAZY @ 04/20/2009 3:29:45 PM

            You are continually on an exageration roll, that, however, is the only way any of your bull makes any sense.

            • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 04/20/2009 4:27:05 PM

              What exaggeration? You have done all of the things I listed.

              Also, because your Yank programming is sub-par, I shall have to answer your other post here:

              So, what was it that made the Brits so saintly countless decades of true, not the new interpretation, Imperialism?"

              At least we were competent about it, Yank. LOL. We controlled the world, you can't even control one of the smallest of our old possessions.


              "I am no saint, but I understand that if any group sets themselves as second in any consideration it sucide plain and simple, and yes that includes what was done in the name of national security."

              Oh, yes, "the ends justify the means". Who said that last? Josef goebbels.

              • Posted By: LynnC @ 04/21/2009 11:40:11 AM

                Please. You starved and abused thousands of Indians for a hundred years of colonialization. Please ask them how they felt about having their women stolen, their property stolen, and being told they were a sub class of people? And when they did rebel, how viciously were your people, of whom you are so proud, able to put down those rebellions? Your countrymen slaughtered entire villages and wiped out entire castes, so you could continue to import and export.....

                Tea.

                Aren't you proud?

                • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 04/21/2009 12:55:34 PM

                  "You starved and abused thousands of Indians for a hundred years of colonialization. "

                  Yes, we certainly did, and there's no point denying it.

                  However, we have put aside the days of such abominations. Too bad you have adopted them.

                  • Posted By: LynnC @ 04/21/2009 1:25:24 PM

                    Instead, your Oh So Civilized Society has to actually have a thing called, let me get this straight, an ASBO?

                    I love a country where their own youth run so amok that they actually can get a citation for being bad kids. Here in America we aren't afraid to discipline our children, whereas the UK is soo toothless (WW2 seems to have robbed you of both balls and brains) that the best thing you can do to address the problem of violence in your youth community is to sock them with ASBO violations?

                    For Americans...that is about as immaterial as getting a ticket from a red light camera.

                • Posted By: YOUSOCRAZY @ 04/21/2009 12:28:56 PM

                  It takes a few pages to figure this America hater out , Tea, but his thing is just to snipe with a holier than thou attitude and of course extreme exaggeration when it doesn't include his colonalizing fore fathers. His arguements are mostly straight out lies bundled with his acidic form of hyperbole ment to elicit some emotional response, hopefully to make him look as an innocent noninvolved peace seeker, not working! Look at any page this troll has been on, one quick "I am better than you" comment followed by the obligitory name calling that usually is to reenforce his being better than the poster he is responding to.

                  • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 04/21/2009 12:57:18 PM

                    ", hopefully to make him look as an innocent noninvolved peace seeker, "

                    What? LOL. I am what I appear to be: Laughing at the provincial cretins that have destroyed our greatest ally, turning it from the shining light of the world, into some filthy collection of sadistic cowards.

    • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 04/21/2009 6:00:52 PM

      Absolutely correct sir. all of the blog articles are designed to instigate a fight between us. whether it's abortion, torture, chavez' hand shake, bush' ignorance or limbaugh's stupidity, it's all a game to bring us here. And, who cares, I'm here to attack the GOP party of hate and others are here to attack Obama. We are the players and no one wins or loses.. Why? because we aren't here to change our minds, just to battle. so enjoy.

    • Posted By: mardam @ 04/20/2009 8:05:36 AM

      Sure! What's the problem? They aren't really human beings anyway...right? Go ahead. Sell your useless soul for expediency. I thought "these colors don't run" and Americans don't fear anyone. I guess that's not really true when push comes to shove, is it?

      This country is the greatest on Earth. But not because we say it is. It's great because of who we are, of what we do, of how we treat others. Torture wasn't good enough during two world wars, the American Revolution or any other conflict this country took part it. Why is it OK now?

      • Posted By: YOUSOCRAZY @ 04/20/2009 10:53:02 AM

        D-, the violins were a nice effect though.

    • Posted By: YOUSOCRAZY @ 04/20/2009 10:52:12 AM

      Correct.

  • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 04/21/2009 6:09:13 PM

    "Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 04/21/2009 5:51:31 PMMaybe they'll be some punishment and maybe not. That will hardly be the measure of our country's change. We didn't punish richard Nixon because, as president Ford put it, t"the country should begin to heal."

    And as a result, every American president knows that they will never, ever be punished for anything they might do.

    Good move.

    • Posted By: LIMPbaugh @ 04/21/2009 6:18:04 PM

      not the point. The question is wheter the country will learn and change. You want/need some punishment. Either way, it has nothing to do with change. I knew you'd wouldn't have the stones to admit that many would favor torture in your country if they thought enough was at stake. Life will go on with or without the villians being bought to justice.

      • Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 04/22/2009 3:39:37 PM

        So you're a torture freak, too?

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