The Lawyer and The Caterpillar

We are tired of seeing present incidents as justification for the need for harsh treatment of others. The past unfair acts have come to the present to haunt us all. As long as we play initially unjust then we have made enemies and the future will have incidents. Stop the process by using fairness. Prevention is the key

Bybee's closing statement in the August 1, 2002 memorandum is that "....there are no cases construing this statute ( Title 18,Section 2340A of the United States Code) just as there have been no prosecutions brought under it." Bybee's most persuasive argument is that nobody has to pay for violating the law against torture.

What do you mean ???Torture is a complicated business, and the real world is never as neat ??? Well, lets make the world neat as can be and torture is not complicated, it should be seen simply, as inhumane and causing problems latter on.

Past CIA Director Michael Hayden just criticized Obama for the release of the memos. Since CIA Directors never say what they really mean, here is the translated version of Michael Hayden's comments for the public, "Holy Fu#%*@ Cow, I signed off on all these illegal torturing procedures thinking I would get away with it in the name of misguided Patriotism. Now I might get prosecuted for my illegal actions -- how could they release the documents I wrote! Wee, wee, wee!"
Relax Michael, you will likely not get prosecuted even though you really deserve it. However, your name will be synonymous with McCarthy and other misguided zealots of the past. You, George and others should be given honorary membership in both al Qaeda and the Taliban for indirectly aiding in their recruitment and financing -- they are larger and stronger now than ever thanks to your unethical actions. Two wrongs does not make a right (no pun intended).

Crimes against humanity. No matter who does it and for whatever reason. It causes more hate, and more division among us;the people of the world.

Remember torture was used by the Nazi and it is obvious they did set a precedent. Also they profiled all in one neat cubby hole. What they did not use was fair play to fellow human beings. Oh, if only we could see all as coming from one planet and one people. Imagine!

No torture is an absolute! No need to confirm this through written books. We all know it to be true; in our hearts. Love your fellow human as yourself. And we need to start a peace dialogue instead of hate. That will do more than torture, anyone but anyone will confess to what is expected.

AND NOW WE GET TO HAVE THESE PSYCHO ISLAMIST EXTREMIST WHACK-JOBS IN OUR PRISONS???

THEY WILL NOT "REHAB" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY WILL RECRUIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY WILL COME IN AS ISLAMO-ROCKSTARS/LIVING MARTRS - AND WILL HAVE CRIMINALLY INCLINED MINDS AT A SURPLUS - AROUND THEM 24/7.

WE'VE BROUGHT THEM INTO THEIR ELEMENT - PROVIDING THEM THE "AMERICAN-LOOKING", "NON-DESCRIPT" FUTURE TERRORIST POOL THEY HAVE BEEN STRIVING FOR !!! GUESS WHAT, OBAMA/HOLDER, OTHER
IDIOTS IN D.C> ....

EVEN IF THE INGOING TERRORISTS ARE IN FOR LIFE - THE CRIMINALS THEY RECRUIT WILL GET OUT ! ESPECIALLY WITH THE "OVERCROWDING" AS AN EXCUSE!

INSTEAD OF MURTHA BUILDING A MONUMENT (AIRPORT) TO HIMSELF - WHY NOT A PRISON ???????????
WE COULD USE THE SPACE FOR THAT - INSTEAD OF A TOO-EXPENSIVE AIRFARE LADEN WHITE ELEPHANT THAT HAS MORE SECURITY/JANITORS THAN PASSEGERS/FLIGHTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PORK FOR PRISONS !!! HOW BOUT THAT? A SPECIAL PRISON FOR TERRORISTS ONLY - SOLITARY CONFINEMENT ONLY. I'LL GIVE MY TAX $$$$$$$ FOR THAT !!!!!!!!

After reading T Weiner's book on the CIA, I understand that they are "between a rock and a hard place", BUT there has to be some rules that make this country better than those we have called out for Human Rights Abuse. The CIA was under pressure to perfom miracles after the 9/11 attacks. They were directed (by whom?) to move past what we as a country agreed to was torture, irregardless of the prisoner classifcation should have raised red flags be each and every one of them. Perhaps they were "promised complete cover" by their director via the Bush Administration, but if they were ignorant of their organization's history and were surprised by the blow-back, then one wonders where did these individuals come from. Did they think they would all be retired and forgotten when the information was revealed? I can forgive a lot, but for all these individuals to be so naive , makes me wonder how they ever came made it into the CIA.
The worse parts of the memos are the steps that the Bush Administration took to move these individuals who were tortured out of the POW status or even "lawful combatant" status into an defined status "Unlawful Enemy Combatant . As their treatment was undefined, then they started on their legal machinations for retooling interrogation technicque definitions. He used the Military Commission Act of 2006, which sounds reprehensible all in itself, but then made it retroactive to 1997, if that isn't CYA, what is? So yes, war is ugly, made uglier when the public was duped into believing that we needed a war in Iraq and then writing the rules as they went along. No matter how this gets spun, it was ugly and an example of what we should not do as a country.
If had actually gone after the "terrorist" in Afganistan, completed the job and stopped there, the blow-back would still have occurred, but certainly not to the extent it is now. As CPowell once said, you break it, you buy it...well, the Bush Administration broke Iraq and then left town, so we are receiving the bill for all of their broken items...and torture is one of them. How can anyone expect the citizens not be outraged...including the CIA?

It is well known that senior members of Congress were fully briefed on the techniques used in CIA interrogations.

If any prosecutions or investigations are undertaken they must be complete and comprehensive, and include everyone responsible for this policy, regardless of party or position.

My suggestion would be for everyone to calm down and consider that the interrogation policy was American policy, not Bush policy. It is by no means clear in the circumstances of the time what that policy should have been or what methods would be appropriate today in some plausible but extreme circumstances.

It would be useful to establish procedures for the approval of different degrees of harshness in interrogations. The use of the harshest techniques should require formal approval by someone from each branch of the government, with less harsh techniques requiring less in the way of approval.

What we have now is a partisan circus. Forget the past. Let us simply learn from it, and establish procedures we can live with in the future.

Torture is 100% effective. Given enough of the right torture, be it physical or psychological, someone will always tell you what you want to hear. The problem, of course, is that it will not be the truth, but simply what you wanted to hear. This was the problem with the Spanish Inquisition, and it was the problem for the North Koreans, and it is the problem for us .... except that it never should be a problem for us, for we should be smart enough to have known all of this for the last 100 years. The only real benefit one gets from torture is the pleasure of watching your 'enemy' scream in agony, or writhe in pain or humiliation .... that is what torture is all about ... it is about getting even .. about inflicting pain on those you want to hurt .... and that is something none of us should ever, ever forget ... ever. Not ever.

It is a fact that senior members of Congress were fully informed about the techniques used in interrogations.

While I think it is stupid to conduct an investigation of the methods used, if we are to do so whatever penality is applied to members of the Bush Administration should also apply to those members of Congress that by their inaction approved all these techniques.

Prosecute and impeach them all, regardless of party or position, or drop the entire matter

The logic of torture always calls for more torture. How can you be sure someone is not holding back until you torture them either to death or to the point of physical/psychological ruin? Plus, the torturers get a taste for it, especially white collar bureaucrats who can issue the orders but let others commit the actual acts.

Am I the only person struck by the serial absurdity this week of our new-found aversion to force? First, a group of ragged teenagers in a rubber boat with a few AK-47's are able to take over a massive, 500 ft tanker, leaving the crew cowering in safe rooms. Why on earth don't ships in this region carry a few weapons -- and why don't they just shoot the kids in the dinghy threatening them? And, then, our remarkable warriors who get to the scene are reduced to towing the "pirates" and are told not to use lethal force? (Thank goodness the commanding officer liberally interpreted his orders!). Finally, the week ends with the release of memos which demonstrate to even the most cursory reader that there was no torture! These interrogation tactics are more mild than those employed on cop dramas every night of the week on TV! It's almost comical -- if these were the tactics that the comicly diabolic Dr. Evil came up with, we'd laugh at the gentleness -- and the specter of checking with lawyers about whether and how to scare a suspected terrorist suspect with a caterpillar... Surely, I thought, I guy as sensible as Isikoff would laugh at this silliness. But, this article too continues the silliness... If this is torture, then what word do we reserve for pulling out fingernails, breaking bones, electro shock to genetalia and other devices that we used to think of as "torture", if that word will now be applied to pushing a prisoner against a wall, holding someone's face or keeping someone awake? The absurdity has me shaking my head in wonderment -- and sadness for the weakness we project...

You people have no idea what torture is. Ask the people in the world trade center that were trapped as the fire raged below them knowing that they could not escape. These despicable human beings did that and would do it again if we did not take the gloves off and start defending ourselves. The brash partisanship of this President and his willingness to score points at the expense of his predecessor and the country is just amazing. The America people will soon regret the day that they elected him. I just hope that they do not come to regret that day when he has weakened our resolve to fight these animals and we suffer another attack on the scale of 9/11.