The Moral Burden

Horsepucky, bad article. Don't confuse President Obama's lack of enthusiasm with dragging this into a vicious partison battle distraction with his desire (shared by me) to ban all torture practices in use by our government. He did close the CIA black sites and banned any interrogation techniques that were not authorized by the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). That was what we voted for him to do and that is what he did.

I have no problem killing someone if they are dangerous, I'll kick the chair out from under them or pull the trigger myself. That being said, I wouldn't torture a dog. I do not want our government given that power because it will eventually be used against our citizens and that will be the end of our republic when it leads us into conflict with our own government. Besides, torture is a very ineffective means of extracting information but a wonderful means of getting people to confess to whatever you want them to say, which is the traditional use of torture. I do not trust our government with this and never will.

Still fomenting paranoia and hate on here, Paul EJB? Don't you have anything better to do with your life?

Mr. Fineman needs something to write about soon. Soon they will be no one on which to blame except those who are in power. The Dems need something to distract, like a magician, in order to further the agenda at the rate Mr Fineman would like. Seveal months ago I commented on Mr Fineman's article on ramming through the stim package without reading it. Thing were so bad the article went that speed was more prudent than reading the bill which approved the AIG and many other blunders found and not found.

To continue the dem agenda speed, distraction, diminishment, and emblelishment will be the key to success. These are the hallmarks of the progressive campaign and Mr. Fineman is one of their finest advocates.

Robin Hood

Izzageek: Can't post under reply so here is my answer - No No No No No & No it is not right to call someone that. Try to turn this answer around if you can. I say what I believe I don't worry if someone won't like it.

If torture is not the right way, which it is not, then an adequate prison sentence advocating an existence, for the prisoner, that the Spartans would deem as Spartan, is strongly advocated. In India, the police use torture, because the serious criminal, escapes the clutches of the law, and is undeterred by the punitive action which is the result. If the prisoner can live a Spartan life, and change his/her outlook towards life, similar to that of the U S Marines, then, a great service is done to society, particularly United States society.

paproudmom-Thanks. I saw your post to me. No worries.

There will be no probe now that both parties have something to lose. What I find most disgusting is that we have troops in prison for these acts. But we now know that Congress ??? both parties ??? knew about it and by action or inaction, sanctioned it. They let those kids go to trial and now sit back and do nothing while they are imprisoned. Where???s the outrage over that? These kids deserve pardons. Where is the petition for them.

There is no morality in politics. These people all do only what it takes to get reelected - and enrich themselves in the meantime.

JohnGaltlaketahoe-

Please stop plugging up this board.

There will be no probe now that both parties have something to lose. What I find most disgusting is that we have troops in prison for these acts. But we now know that Congress ??? both parties ??? knew about it and by action or inaction, sanctioned it. They let those kids go to trial and now sit back and do nothing while they are imprisoned. Where???s the outrage over that? These kids deserve pardons.

The thing that bothers me most in the torture debate is the flexible morality, mostly from the Right. Pat Buchanan speaks of a "higher moral law" to rationalize his argument in favor of torture while on other issues he speaks of "the rule of law".
Treaties and the United States Code, according to his sophistries are seconded to whatever his "higher moral law' is. What if my "higher moral law" tells me it is OK to embezzle or rob? We are on dangerous turf if we allow our givernment to apply anything other than the existing rule of law.

Morals are morals. They aren't flexible or vague. If you are going to hold only certain people accountable to the rule of law and allow someone's "higher moral law" to influence whether or not someone else is held accountable then the entire system of laws loses its authority and credibility.

GOP Please STOP blaming Obama about everything.Americans ain't stupid what's happening in the Country.I'm fed-up with people "Politicking".You think Its Obama fault for releasing those Torture Memos? Obama has NO choice,People might forgotten this is AMERICA that made up people from the Left,Center and,Right.etc...this Apply to every Government's Staff mixtures and frictions ,including the Army and also CIA itself .Where else do you think The Story and Pictures of tortures come from? Civilian? You're wrong...now you're able to figure it out where it source from, .Do you think this Story of Tortures can be COVER-UP by Obama ?When every Americans knew it even during Bush's administration and that includes the whole World, the Answer is NO the hole is too BIG to be plug by anyone's head no even from the president itself..It an Offense for Obama to hide and conspiracy with those law breakers by failing to open-up,and bring to justice on these criminal activities.

Seems that Pelosi can't make up her mind.


After first denying that she had anything to do with the Sept.2002 meeting with CIA officials regarding the techniques used on detainees,a livid Porter Goss[fmr CIA Director who was present with Pelosi and the other Democrats] fired back this morning in the Washington Times forcing Pelosi to issue a denial/non-denial. Meanwhile closing rank Republicans including John McCain who originally supported the release of the memos to begin with,has gotton from Goss all of Pelosis comments and minutes at the 2002 meeting and it makes Pelosi look even more guilty than Cheney,as this man,according to todays New York Times, is ''unapologetic''.Thus the hangings proposed by the wingnuts would have had the opportunity to become a bi-partisan extravaganza if Obama had not put a stop to it. [liberals now in the uncomfortable position of defending Pelosis position on torture [''are these techinques effective enough''?] while daminng Cheneys, making them out to be ,again, with the regularity of the clock marking time, rank hypocrites. Obama now has new worries anyway,as we discussed earlier.

1. The Government Accountability Office and the Congressional Budget Offices brand -new reports criticizing Obama for having ''no oversight whatever'' of how TARP monies are disbursed,how these are spent,and on what. Geithner will take the fall for this blunder.

2. The nightmare feared by nearly all nations that ever gave a damn about the subject, allowing several books on it to be published in the West during the Bush presidency, is now unfolding in Pakistan, another Obaman/NATO/UN blunder which is now moving on its own accord.
Taliban forces are now closing to within thirty miles of the capital. Its last major natural barrier is the Margala Hills,where Pak artillary is being brought up for defense as well as the deployment of PAK RANGERS in the capital centre which are being used to defend government structures and other key buildings in the downtown area. It has been determined by the Times of India [Apr.23,2009] that a separate Taliban column [which may be the ''lost'' Behnar forces that were assumed to have withdrawn from that northwestern province], has branched off from the main group and has moved into Haripur,near the state of Punjab and may invest this area before the end of the week.

Haripur contains two identified nuclear storage facilities and at least one suspected ICBM launch platform.

Feel better now...? or worse.....?

www.billroggio.blogspot.com LONG WAR JOURNAL Apr.24,2009

www.counterterrorismblog.com Apr.24,2009

www.politico.com Apr.24,2009:''Pelosi Briefed On Waterboarding In 2002''

ANOTHER MORAL RESPONSIBILTY FOR THE WORLD IN THE NEAR HORIZON.
EELAM GOVERNMENT IN EXILE ?
LIKE SOUTH AFRICAN 'ANC' HAD A GOVERNMENT IN EXILE DURING THE DIABOLICAL APARTHEID REGIME.
LIKE TIBETAN GOVERNMENT IN EXILE IN INDIA .

"A nation that ignores its past has no history -- and no future." (Robert Heinlein)

We cannot move forward unless and until the torture issue had been investigated and the rule of law followed to its conclusion. That is the exclusive province of the Justice Department -- not the White House and not Capitol Hill. Interference from those bodies WILL politicize the issue, not clarify it.

Ya'll step aside and let Mr. Holder do his work. Stop joggling his elbow.

General Tomoyuki Yamashita was hanged in Manila on February 23, 1946. The fate of this officer, a first-class fighting man,affirmed something new in the annals of war. For Yamashita did not die for murder, or for directing other men to do murder in his name. Yamashita lost his life not because he was a bad or evil commander, but simply because he was a commander, and the men he commanded had done unspeakably evil things.

Yamashita was tried by military commission, a panel of five general officers, all American, sitting in the great ballroom of the bullet-pocked U.S. high commissioner???s residence in Manila. General Douglas MacArthur, as overall Pacific commander, had the power not only to convene such commissions but also to establish their powers and procedural rules. A military commission had sentenced to death certain German saboteurs landed in the United States in the summer of 1942. Such a commission was not bound by the procedural rules and safeguards inherent in both the civil and the court-martial systems.