As American as Apple Pie

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  • Posted By: iotata @ 04/28/2009 7:14:43 PM

    Judging by the dress!? How many times a devout Muslim like you tels it friends that a woman, girl or a man dressed in "scant" attire is a good woman, girl or man who happen to have different point of view (not necessary wrong) than you. How many time you opposed publicly in Islamic country the view of western women as whores just because they dress differently. When Islam will see the agnostics as doctors, scientist, people who contribute positively to society. Show me one Islamic country, where any kind of agnostic is even tolerated. In your essay you talk about Islam tolerance toward few monotheistic religions and stop there. How many western Muslim organizations publicly defended agnostics (atheist). I bet non. But all we hear complains about judging based on headscarf. You don't judge a girl in bikini don't? You in the west need to explain frequently your scarf and you complain. Me in Muslim world have to hide my faith or lack of it in fear for my life.
    The respect goes two ways and until I see you publish a open letter to your fellow Muslims defending the right agnostics to dress the way we like I will consider all like you hypocrites.

    • Posted By: rpearlston @ 04/29/2009 1:54:36 PM

      I would describe you with a word that includes the i, o and t that you use in your screen name and I would do it for one reason and one reason only.

      Your arguement could be just as easily made when your subject is Orthodox Jews or fundamentalist Christians or the fundamentalist minority of any other religion that you can name.

      If you don't want to believe that, then I challenge you to go, for example, to try to drive in the Mea Sharim section of Jerusalem on any Saturday or to wear shorts without a shirt at any time in that same area. I challenge anyone, but in particular any woman, to visit Catholic Church or Orthodox Jewish synagogue while wearing a short-sleeved dress. For that matter, I challenge any man to visit those same synagogues without coverig his head.

      After all, just where did the phrase "when in Rome do as the Romans do" come from, and why? Yes, respect is a two-way street. But if you wre invited to a pot luck dinner by a vegetarian, would your contribution be a stnading rib roast? That's the type of disrespect that you would display in any scenario that I listed above.

      It's clothing, that's all. It's just clothing, and it's a choice. So what if some groups chose to dress modestly . Why does their modesty make you so uncomfortable? And why would you prance about in immodest clothing on the turf of any group that choses modesty? Just how ugly an American would that make you?

      • Posted By: iotata @ 04/29/2009 5:53:05 PM

        And let the judging begin! Before even know me you use insult to describe me. You didn't even pick the essence of what I was trying to convey. My points is that this lady complains about judging by the dress, but when the shoe is on the other foot she and her fellow Muslims do not miss the opportunity to judge. And not only judge, but also give some lashings, stoning, here and there a beheading. My points the so called moderates give a fee pass to any loony who acts like it is holier than thou and imposes even more conservative dress code/ "values", but if somebody try to argue the other point, immediately is called names. And for your information I do not like parading around naked. I was just making a point, which you didn't get it anyway.

        • Posted By: rpearlston @ 04/29/2009 7:32:39 PM

          Where did she impose anything on you? Where is she judging you except for judging your attitude towards her? Where did she threaten you in any way?

          Like it or not, you do not rule in someone else's home - they do. If you go to any country in which Islam is the most practiced religion, and you act in ways that insult them, why should your hosts not be angered by your actions and words? Some may take you aside and advise you of your errors, but some may stone you. That would be true if you tried to drive in Mea Sharim on a Saturday, if you treed to do anything that dissed any group on their turf.

          Your attitude on this one doesn't differ from the attitude to which you would be subjected if you looked or acted differently from the people around you. Ms Mubarak's point was that that attitude isn't necessary anywhere, at any time or for any reason.

          You claim that this is a Muslim attitude towards others and nothing more nor less than that. This isn't only a Muslim attitude. This is a fundamentalist attitude towards others and it's the attitude that you desplay towards all Muslims. How do you jump to that bigoted conclusion?

          Your reading comprehension skills are very, very poor. You were not threatened in any way by Ms Mubarak, and I did not at any point suggest that you or anyone else prance around naked. I simply pointed out to you that in some place, no matter who you are, there are dress codes and behavioural guidelines to be followed and that under those circumstances it's at best extremely rude to flaunt your norm if it differes from the norm of that situation.

      • Posted By: iotata @ 04/29/2009 5:52:12 PM

        And let the judging begin! Before even know me you use insult to describe me. You didn't even pick the essence of what I was trying to convey. My points is that this lady complains about judging by the dress, but when the shoe is on the other foot she and her fellow Muslims do not miss the opportunity to judge. And not only judge, but also give some lashings, stoning, here and there a beheading. My points the so called moderates give a fee pass to any loony who acts like it is holier than thou and imposes even more conservative dress code/ "values", but if somebody try to argue the other point, immediately is called names. And for your information I do not like parading around naked. I was just making a point, which you didn't get it anyway.

  • Posted By: Bryan078 @ 04/28/2009 3:44:01 PM

    It is so great that Obama has taken such interest in Muslims in America. He has done so much for 2% of the country. The other 98% and their minor, unimportant problems should take note and all minorities should be appeased for the greater good.

    • Posted By: thinkTwice @ 04/29/2009 2:32:26 PM

      Ok you have said your piece... now go put your head in your ass again.
      Not done anything for 98% of the people indeed, addressed the issue's of the minority ... how ... by giving a speech. This idiot is upset that he gave a speech assuaging the minority.

      • Posted By: YOUSOCRAZY @ 04/29/2009 4:03:00 PM

        Typical liberal tolerance!

        • Posted By: Flanders @ 04/29/2009 4:30:07 PM

          Nice, just point your finger and call people names.

          I believe Muslims account for less than 1% of the country's population, but that is not the point. Getting over our 10 year old, 14th century mentaility about people different from us is the point of all of this.

          I am not Muslim, and do not agree with its system, premise, or faith as a whole, but I still must love and respect its peoples.

  • Posted By: ThundrbltMN @ 04/28/2009 2:08:49 AM

    As long as they don't protheletize me, I have no business meddling in theirs.

    • Posted By: rpearlston @ 04/29/2009 1:31:55 PM

      Prosletizing is unique to Christianity, and many so-called Christians insist on trying to force their beliefs down the throats of others.

      Your remark is hypocritical.

  • Posted By: helenz @ 04/28/2009 2:18:26 PM

    Hadia Mubarak is an Islamist, not just a Muslim and I find it strange that Newsweek would give her such a platform as their national magazine. Islamists do not believe in separation of church and state. And while "progressive Islamists" differ from the Taliban in that they are better educated, denounce violence, etc., they absolutely desire Islamic law in the public sphere through "persuasion."
    This will never happen in the West, at least teh US. But the direct harm people like Hadia are managing is attacking the diversity of the American Muslim community. I have experience the bigotry of the Muslim Student Assoc's at college (of which Hadia was the national president at one time). They discriminate against non-Wahhabis, liberal and secular Muslims and are vehemently anti-semitic. YET, they think they are the real Muslims. Not normal Americans like me.

    • Posted By: apolemic @ 04/28/2009 2:32:21 PM

      What I see is a somewhat obsessed, mildly paranoid individual going by the moniker "helenz" with a large and persistent axe to grind.

      Lighten up. You'll live longer.

      • Posted By: helenz @ 04/29/2009 11:45:31 AM

        thanks for the personal ad hominem attacks. It would help if you actually had a counter point to anything FACTUAL I said above. And pls note, my points are based on my personal experienced as I stated not paranoia.

  • Posted By: attpoodm @ 04/29/2009 8:24:17 AM

    I've read so many articles like this and unfortunately, this one offers nothing new. The writer's focus on the headscarf is very telling of the mentality of so many Muslims worldwide: that is the only acceptable dress for women who step outside their respective homes, and that any woman who dresses differently is a whore. She reminds me a lot of a famous Muslim TV personality who looks very Westernized, but the underlying message is always the same: Our way or the high way. Muslims need to stop blaming everyone else for their problems and start looking inward. A loved one once asked me how the most advanced civilization in the world, at one point, went from contributing to science, medicine, literature, poetry, etc... to...nothing. Surely that is some sort of clue that the region is in dire need of reform.

    To preempt any 'Muslim hater' comments, I'm a proud Muslim. My relatives are proud Muslims. The only difference is that we don't wear our faith like a It's SUCH a crying shame to see that despite all this world class education, empty minds have still not been replaced with open ones. My mother is a doctor who has been to the Hajj nine times, wears a headscarf, and is the most down to earth humanitarian I have ever known. My closest childhood friend is Catholic and we used to celebrate all the religious holidays (Christian and Muslim) together. Point is, a lot of Muslims are here because they want to live in a place where they're free to think their own thoughts, and be a devout whatever-they-choose. That is a luxury that is not afforded in much of the Muslim world.

    Like it or not, we share this planet. We should start taking care of it, ourselves and each other.

  • Posted By: evilever @ 04/28/2009 7:05:35 PM

    I read with interest Hadia Mubarak's essay. My question to her, other people of faith, and other citizens of America is "What does being American mean to you?" At the end of her essay she says, "...people will look at me and, instead of seeing a woman with a headscarf, they'll see another American, just like them." I guess I'm asking, which document would take precedent. The Constitution and its amendments or the Koran? Just as I ask would it be the Bible or the Constitution?





  • Posted By: Apolitical @ 04/28/2009 6:58:07 PM

    Ms. Mubarak, I'm sorry for you and your friend's experience. But it is simply not a bit worst than mine. I'm a frequent traveler and some of which is in predominantly Muslim countries. No, no one shouted at me to go back home. My host just told me that more than half of the people in the place I went to would probably want to kill me given half the chance for the simple reason that I'm there. And please, those people who looked at you funny and even thought all Muslim are extremists are the narrow-minded neo-con or neo-nazi minorities and do not represent us. And if I may, your first obligation is not to write your thoughts on Newsweek but rather to enlighten your brethren that we are your brothers and we are not out to convert you to Christianity -- which is for us is a personal choice.

  • Posted By: nrutym @ 04/28/2009 2:45:40 PM

    I used to be Catholic and years ago we used to have to cover our heads in church. It was really dumb. If you forgot your hat you had to put a kleenex on your head! I am no longer religious for alot of reasons: dumb rules, patriarchal and oppressive to women, cause of most wars, no basis in logic, often perverted, etc. Hadia can wear her underwear on head for all I care as long as she (or any Christian, Buddist, whatever) doesn't try to force her religious beliefs on me. It's called seperation of church and state and it's what this country was founded on.
    On another note, I wonder why Hadia does not address the reasons for the predjudice she encounters? Why are some people are more fearful of Hadia's headscarf than for example, a Russian woman wearing a babushka?

  • Posted By: helenz @ 04/28/2009 2:05:48 PM

    I can't believe Newsweek is giving a Wahabbi, ex-president of the Muslim Brotherhood founded MSAs such a national platform. This the second white flag newsweek has waved since it published the article "learning to live with radical Islam." So much for defending secular democracy.

    If anyone wants to read more about who Hadia Mubarak is, read: http://www.fsmarchives.org/article.php?id=416756

  • Posted By: YOUSOCRAZY @ 04/28/2009 11:09:26 AM

    Perfect, lets get all involved in yet another infinitesimal, extreme minority! Earth to Democratic administration, majority rule ring any bells, serve the will of the people, not the 1.2%!!!!!!!!!!

  • Posted By: jstepp590 @ 04/28/2009 10:54:25 AM

    If most Muslims are like you, as has been my experience with Muslims here in Florida, we are happy to have you with us. Freedom of religion is one of our most cherished rights here in the U.S. and people like you are a prime reason we have it. America and Muslims have had a rocky past, for reasons that rarely had to do with religion, and there is a certain amount of tribalism (psychology label for "us and them") from both sides, and it will take a little while to overcome them.

    I guess what most scares Americans about any religious group is that we will lose that right to freedom of religion, whether it be through the work of the Christian Coalition or through trying to import Sharia law. As long as those fears are alleviated you will find the majority of Americans to be very open and accepting. If those fears are not properly addressed the opposite will be true. It took us too long to fight our way out from under religious and secular authoritarianism to allow it to happen again.

    That is an American cultural baggage. :-)

  • Posted By: Keagos @ 04/27/2009 10:42:31 PM

    My mother was a devout moslem and she prayed 5 times a day either in Turkey or while in the US visiting us. She never felt that she needed to cover her had with this dumb head gear. Ataturk made Turkey a secular country; one of the very critical element of blending a country like Turkey into world was to make them look like the rest of the world. As he always tried to teach, there is no room in the society trying to make a statement about your religion all the time. Religion is the expression of of your faith method. Keep in the privacy of your home or the prayer location. Take the dumb head scarf off, act like a beatiful American. Always remember that the religion no matter what it is, can be divisive. And you are inviting it as you walk in the street. Dress like an American, act and talk like an American and be a proud American not a proud moslem. In faith and religion there is no room for pride, there is no need for extreme display. Keep it to yourself, believe whatever you believe but stop spoiling USA's united outlook. You are a smart lady, act smart, independent and mature. Islamism does not require you to cover your head. If you think it does you have every right to reject it and stop making statements 24 hours a day. Be your smart self not somebody else's directive.

    • Posted By: purple_state @ 04/28/2009 8:44:22 AM

      So does that mean that christian priests and nuns should shun the robes and collars? Should Christians abandon the cross and rosary? How about the Jews should they stop celebrating all of their holidays because they are unamerican? The first amendment to the US Constitution gives the author the right as an American to express her religious views (non violently ) at her leisure. In fact doing so is as American as voting, doing so is patriotic its part of the American dream the American promise. You don't understand because hate has made you forget what being an American is all about.

  • Posted By: fluffy II @ 04/28/2009 6:49:23 AM

    I take the pronouncements of Ms. Mubarak as an outpouring of humanity on her part. Why do people have to overly judge what other people wear? Hijab, no hijab, cutoff shorts or whatever! America stands for freedom of expression.

    And I could look at the bible and doubt my own Christianity because of the many violent phrases which exist there, but it's the essence of a faith and your own interpretation of it that counts.

    Thank you, Ms. Mubarak, for reaching out to all of us.

  • Posted By: Jude99 @ 04/27/2009 9:13:03 PM

    Kudos to Newsweek for embracing tolerance and civility! The headscarf of this author is no different what religious Christian and Jewish women wear all over the world. It is about modesty, dignity and honor. Amaerica is for all! Racism had its stamped its ugly stamp on our history for a very long time. I hope we learn from the lessons of the past and embrace civility, modernity and teolerance.

  • Posted By: Average Jane @ 04/27/2009 12:52:06 PM

    I agree with NeoPoliticus "If you wear a scarf when going to worship, that's practicing your religion. If you wear it all the time, you are oppressed." By wearing the headscarf all the time, you are bowing down to a patriarchal society. Do Caliphs wear head scarves? Oh, no, that's right, women are not allowed to be a Caliph.

    • Posted By: rpearlston @ 04/27/2009 9:04:52 PM

      Wrong. IF, man or woman, you cover your head when you worship, you're practising your religion. If you cover your head outside of worship, because you're forced to do so by anyone in your life, you're oppressed, If you chose to cover your head outside of worship, you're displaying a sense of modesty.

      Why is modesty wrong?

  • Posted By: terryhoare @ 04/25/2009 10:23:40 PM

    all who are said to be religious must be humble and willing to understand each other. Rarely out of the daily news in some country or another, as my research FINDS, is ISLAM acting up like no other religion would dare to, with the exception of radical Hindus.If the write hopes Islam can be accepted like Christianity, Islam needs to stop persecuting them.If Islam wants to be accepted like any other religion Islam must lose its barbarity in Islamic countries and learn toleration for other religions . Militancy, the will to convert others to Islam, and Sharia Law in their Government and Religion is incompatible with social equality with non-Muslims, I regret to say.

    • Posted By: rpearlston @ 04/27/2009 8:50:23 PM

      Would you have made those same remarks in the 15th centruy, to protest the Spanish Inquisition? Would you have made the same remark about 14 centuries into Judaism?

      The peoples of the book share that ugly part of their history - that about 14 centuries into their existance, they look outwards and see the rest of the world as their sworn enemy. And guess what - Islam today is in it's14th century. which is as violent for Islam as it was for Christianity and for Judaism.

      Your remarks have no basis in history

    • Posted By: iamahyperbola @ 04/26/2009 9:46:12 AM

  • Posted By: Elsie5 @ 04/25/2009 3:14:18 PM


    A headscarf is a sign of political Islam. Secular Turks who are also Muslim scorn and reject it. It also sets women back in this country about 500 years. All the Christians in this country could wear giant-sized crucifixes to announce our religious beliefs but we don't. You think it's cool to cover yourself, go talk to the women in Saudi Arabia or Iran and see how thrilled they are with their head covering predicament.

    • Posted By: rpearlston @ 04/27/2009 8:42:08 PM

      Political Islam? POLITICAL ISLAM!!!!!!! As opposed to what, non-political Islam or political Christianity or politcal Hinduism or plain ordinary old-fashoned nonsense on your part.

      Yes, nonsense. but not only nonsense. It's nonsense and bigotry.

      The hijab is a sumbol of Islam for women, just as for centuries, the habit was a symbol of Christianity for nuns. Muslim women are not the only women who chose to cover their hair, or have you never been to an Orthodox Jewish sections of NYC or of many other American cities.

      You're displaying your own lack of education and your own bigotry. I doubt that that realization makes you proud of yourself. You need to find a way to apologize for that remark.

    • Posted By: lawstud @ 04/26/2009 1:06:26 AM

      Elsie5: You clearly have a narrow perspective in regards to why Muslim women wear hijab. You are entitled to your opinion, but before you go making judgments about how "oppressive" wearing a scarf is, maybe you should try talking to a woman who wears hijab and ask her whether she feels oppressed. Do you feel oppressed wearing clothing in public and feel the need to strip it all off and walk around in the nude? Afterall, how is covering your hair any different from covering any other part of your body? It's interesting that you make mention of women "being set back" because from what I understand, Islam was the first religion to offer women rights such as the right to property, divorce, etc. How's that for oppressive?

      All in all, I just ask that you do your research before you make blanket statements. Again, you're entitled to your opinion, but don't make it sound like fact when it isn't. It's not fair to people who read to seek truth, and it reflects poorly on you even though I am sure you are a kind, and intelligent individual.

  • Posted By: IvyRowe @ 04/27/2009 5:04:57 PM

    @ Average Jane and NeoPoliticus -- I respect your right to hold your opinion, but try looking at it from a different perspective. If you can think that wearing a headscarf is "bowing down to a patriarchal society," do you think that wearing a miniskirt and low-cut blouse would also qualify as "bowing down to a patriarchal society"? It's an opposite take, but try it on for size.

    I believe that people have the right to dress as they choose, and in our diverse country, it's not unreasonable to hope others will respect that right.

    I???m not only a Muslim when I???m engaged in an act of worship ??? it is part of me at every moment. I dress modestly and cover my hair whenever I am in public view. It???s part of my faith, and I draw strength and comfort from it. If you???re looking for oppression, you won???t find it in my hijab.

  • Posted By: starfire8181 @ 04/27/2009 2:51:54 PM

    There are Christians who only wear skirts and never pants. Are they opressed? No it is a choice. Why do you think many women wear hats in church,covering thier heads. It is a way to show respect to God and what they believe. I think that a world religions class should be a requierment in every school so that people will actually know about a religions belief system.

  • Posted By: PulmonaryGirl @ 04/27/2009 10:25:49 AM

    The head scarf is a choice, and it is tradition followed by many religions including christianity. 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. New Testament....Its in the Bible. What does the Virgin Mary wear on her head. What do Nuns wear on their heads. Indeed they have more religious knowledge than the average Christian. If the most pious of the pious are wearing it by choice it isn't oppression. I am a student of Religion and Theology at Columbia University and hold an unbiased opinion on all of this. The comment made by wileysnakeskins is inaccurate. Mohamed was a Shepard, and by historical evidence he did recieve revelation, as did Christ, and Moses. I am upset, because your average joe blow can make a comment without any revelant evidence, and people believe them. THats why there is so much hate in the world because people don't let people live the way they want to because they just don't like it. The United States was found on Freedom of Religion, or do we forget that. If someone wants to be a Muslim, good. If someone wants to be a Christian great. But if someone wants to be intolerable, you might as well go back to where your ancesters came from because no one in the United states of America is from here. We are all immigrants one way or another unless you are a Native American. Or did you forget that we butchered them too because of our intolerance. Just mind your own buisness and live your own life
    happilily without trying to take someone down. By the way Neopoliticus, look up oppression before you make an uneducated statement.

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