Have We Softened Up On Torture?

Thank you for writing this article, the average American has become increasingly distant from its own government acting as though the government is some sort of uncontrollable being. It saddens me that so many people can close their eyes to the horrific acts we as Americans are committing in order to preserve "freedom???. Have we all forgotten the golden rule? Americans must lead by example. Right now we are creating a very bad and scary example of what is okay.

Thank you for writing this article, the average American has become increasingly distant from its own government acting as though the government is some sort of uncontrollable being. It saddens me that so many people can close their eyes to the horrific acts we as Americans are committing in order to preserve "freedom???. Have we all forgotten the golden rule? Americans must lead by example. Right now we are creating a very bad and scary example of what is okay.

I am repulsed to hear what the Bush administration has allowed and what they deemed to be reasonable interrogation techniques. So tell me this, what happens to us if we travel to another country, if we just let this go, why wouldn't they do the same thing to us and feel perfectly justified? It makes me fearful to travel outside the United States. No one should be above the law in this regard. And if the laws were changed to "fit their agenda", then they should be punished for such laws, the acts of carrying them out, and for putting the people of the United States in serious jeapardy. Oh, and by the way, I am a republican. I'm embarrassed at this point to admit it.

Here we have once again the prefect example of situational ethics and truth according to the insane members of the Bush administration adn their supporters. Most ot the legislators who supported torture are chicken hawks who have never served a day in the military defending the United States. Cheney was 'too busy to serve in the military". None of these sociopaths ever truly defended any of the prinicples or ideals of this country. They have distorted and and demeaned much of what makes this country important and special. They do not function from love of country, but rather from love of power.

All you pro-torture fans, read teriberi35 posted at 5:17. Reagan agreed with 140 other countries that torture is illegal. There seems to be a consensus in these comments that torture is wrong. Everyone who agrees should write Cheney a letter (unless you still fear that he has a secret Gestapo).

I went through SERE training in 1969 prior to my first tour in VietNam. However you want to call it, or justify it; torture is torture.

I don't know why this conversation even exists. Torture isn't just wrong, it is "ILLEGAL" it is ???OUTLAWED???. It is a "WAR CRIME" and only people like Dick Cheney who wish to pretend this is a "policy disagreement" or a "partisan debate" and his stupid minions in the press who support that view continue with these inane issues of "do we really think it's that bad, really?" We have morons who can't separate a TV show from reality anymore. We have reporters who can't distinguish "right" from "wrong" anymore. We have inept individuals who argue the policy was based on good "legal advice" and want to blame those who wish to hold those accountable for problems with "anger and retribution". Good legal advice? What about all the legal advice to the contrary they ignored? Bad decisions are just irrelevant, huh?

You bet I'm angry about what happened. There was no excuse for it and these constant references by Cheney about all the "CLASSIFIED" instances where we prevented terrorists attacks I accept with about as much confidence as I did his claims after 6 months of UN inspections about WMD in Iraq and the need for war. The man is a pathological liar and may well be a borderline sociopath. What is truly pathetic is why anyone would accept his argument, anyone would dismiss the legal basis these idiots broke the law, violated the US Constitution and instead of demanding ACCOUNTABILITY, those of us who get it sit here trying to defend the need for the RULE OF LAW in place of the warped excuses for why that is not possible. We sit here reading nonsense and all the excuses in the book about why we have to ???LOOK FORWARD INSTEAD OF BACKWARD??? while the worst of the worst are running loose on government pensions spewing nonsense and excuses for some of the most heinous crimes in the century.

People did die because of the torture. These are not ???heroes??? in my book, they are serial killers. I am want them held accountable for their crimes and until they are, the possibility these problems will arise again are magnified by our acceptance and acquiescence of their crimes. Worse yet, until we demand justice, we are nothing more than accomplices to the crimes they carried out in our name.

Ms. Lithwick, please speak only for yourself. I for one find those pictures as repulsive today as the pictures taken of the liberation of Auschwitz - even more so because those were U.S. armed forces personnel doing this instead of Schutzstaffel Verfugungstruppe or Imperial Japanese Army staff.

Have we not learned from the previous eight years and the parallels to German politics between 1928-1940 that filth - no matter how it is re-branded-is still filth? We have no more credibility now to chastize anyone regarding human rights violations than German or Japanese prison guards did in 1945, and the rest of the world-including our enemies- knows it. The conservative movement can whine and snivel all they want and all it does is expose the depth their policy failures, their profound lack of education and their complete disregard for human history.

Everyone who was responsible for the implementation of this policy of "enhanced interrogation" - both Democrat and Republican- must be held accountable and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law; and if any of those prisoners died as a result of this policy, then those responsible should receive the appropriate penalty as proscribed under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the U.S. Army's "Law of Land Warfare" field manual and the Geneva Conventions for the Rules of War as amended in 1949, Protocol 1.

1) The Bush administration specifically ordered the use of secret prisons where people would be imprisoned without charges
2) The bush administration specifically ordered the use of torture, something the US convicted the japanese for as war criminals. Typical Bush propaganda - if we do it it is freedom fighting. If you do it it is a war crime
3) the Bush administration specifically set the tone that led directly to Abu Ghraib and scapegoated a few low ranking soldiers while letting the senior officials off completely.
4) the Bush administration was hiring and firing justice department lawyers based on their political views, a blatant act of TREASON, specifically intended to undermine the fundamental concept that "Justice is blind". This would allow them to pervert the justice system to declare that torture is legal and create a general right wing bias to the enforcement of the criminal code (ever hear of Joe Mcarthy?). To me, this is by far the most frightening thing Bush did while in office.

No. I do not think I have softened up much!

1) The Bush administration specifically ordered the use of secret prisons where people would be imprisoned without charges
2) The bush administration specifically ordered the use of torture, something the US convicted the japanese for as war criminals. Typical Bush propaganda - if we do it it is freedom fighting. If you do it it is a war crime
3) the Bush administration specifically set the tone that led directly to Abu Ghraib and scapegoated a few low ranking soldiers while letting the senior officials off completely.
4) the Bush administration was hiring and firing justice department lawyers based on their political views, a blatant act of TREASON, specifically intended to undermine the fundamental concept that "Justice is blind". This would allow them to pervert the justice system to declare that torture is legal and create a general right wing bias to the enforcement of the criminal code (ever hear of Joe Mcarthy?). To me, this is by far the most frightening thing Bush did while in office.

No. I do not think I have softened up much!

If we soften up on torture, we are walking down a Dark Age road that will lead us to the same place as our enemies, whom we despise. Injustice is injustice. From Bush to Cheney to Private First Class whoever, all should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

As an avid fan of Jack Bauer in the fantasy 24 hours, and often minutes leading to disaster, torture seems entertaining. However, in truth, torture is most definitely an abhorrent practice that should be stopped regardless of the circumstances. The worldwide network that espouses torture as a solution to intelligence gathering should be exposed, and all its supporters and perpetrators should be outed to face criminal charges for violations of law.

A sobering piece about US citizens who feel that they are "targeted individuals" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/10/AR2007011001399.html) certainly gains some plausibility in light of the fact that anyone can be labelled, targeted, or deemed an enemy of the State because of social, cultural, and religious differences or even a hint that they might not like the Good O'l USA and the current estabilishment. of a power hungry intelligence elites.

The debate over whether or not this constituted torture is moot. As is the debate over whether or not we should prosecute the offenders. Please read the following:
President Reagan signed the UN Convention Against Torture (CAT) Treaty. The U.N. treaty, which went into force on June 26th, 1987, and to which the U.S. is a partner along with more than 140 other countries, defines and outlaws torture clearly and concisely.

CAT Article 1 specifies that, for purposes of the Convention, torture refers to: "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity."

And to quote Condoleezza Rice from 2005, "The United States government does not authorize or condone torture of detainees. Torture, and conspiracy to commit torture, are crimes under U.S. law, wherever they may occur in the world." What was done was wrong.

And, if we don't do something about it, the UN, and the other 140 countries who signed the Treaty, will. Obama doesn't have a choice here.

The world is watching.

If we soften up on torture, we are headed down an evil road. We will reap the rewards of our Dark Age mentality. We will turn into what we despise.

Have we softened up on torture? No!!! For 7 years we HARDENED up on torture. Now we're trying to get back to no "cruel and unusual punishment". Don't we have some old legal document in the National Archive that says we're not supposed to do this? Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Tenet created a torture squad and it's wrong. What baffles me is why the Bush Gestapo and the Attorney General felt it necessary to make a legal case for it. It isn't. If we allow the CIA to do it, can the FBI? We're only another legal opinion away form allowing it. How about state police? We're yet another legal opinion away from that. Then how about local police? If we ever really get desensitized to torture, this is its potential - your local police chief authorizing 'enhanced' interrogation methods.

Have we softened up on torture? No!!! For 7 years we HARDENED up on torture. Now we're trying to get back to no "cruel and unusual punishment". Don't we have some old legal document in the National Archive that says we're not supposed to do this? Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Tenet created a torture squad and it's wrong. What baffles me is why the Bush Gestapo and the Attorney General felt it necessary to make a legal case for it. It isn't. If we allow the CIA to do it, can the FBI? We're only another legal opinion away form allowing it. How about state police? We're yet another legal opinion away from that. Then how about local police? If we ever really get desensitized to torture, this is its potential - your local police chief authorizing 'enhanced' interrogation methods.