A Catholic-School Veteran Tells All

The lack of institutional oversight within the Catholic church for so many years is the root of the largest problem for today's Church. We have diminishing congregations today because too many people lost faith after witnessing un-Christian-like behavior by Church leaders.

Instead of holding representatives of the Church to the same moral standard the Church professed - the Church leadership ignored issues like pedophilia and corporal punishment. Ignoring the issues may have served a short term interest like keeping more Parishes open or more teachers in Catholic schools. But it also caused many to view the Church as primarily interested in protecting the Church hierarchy at the expense of the lay people.

And unfortunately many of the layity also chose to ignore these moral lapses by the liturgy because they felt to bring them up would somehow lessen their religion or cause them to be at odds with the Church they loved. In the long run the truth always comes out and the damage done to the Church was much greater because the abuse went on for so long without being addressed by Church leadership.

The Catholic Church is strong and it probably will endure. But the damage done by ignoring moral lapses amongst their own liturgy has surely set back the cause of the Church. To continue to ignore these moral lapses or to somehow minimize them because most Priests or Nuns do great things (which they do) or because public school children were abused too - is to continue down the wrong path. You can be Catholic and proud of it while still acknowledging that there are terrible things in the history of the Church. Just as you can be American and proud of it while still acknowledging that there are terrible things (slavery for example) in the history of America.

There are WIDELY varying experiences across the country in regard to experiences with Catholic school and the nuns that staffed them. I grew up in Los Angeles and was taught by the School Sisters of Notre Dame, based in St Louis. These women were very spiritual, strict, disciplined, and communicated a great value of both spiritual AND academic rigors. They were NOT, however, physically or emotionally abusive, i.e. I was never struck or called names during my eight years. (Yes, they did get crabby from time to time...but, then again, don't we all?) Conversely, I received a wonderful education which continues to be the foundation of my professional and spiritual life. There are, however, what I believe to be legitimate accounts of actual physical, mental, and emotional abuse perpetrated by nuns; the frequence of such stories are too numerous to ignore. As a practicing Catholic, who is also a clinical psychologist, I can say with certainty that it's foolish to dismiss the experiences of those who were actually abused simply because our experiences were different. I would argue that the problem with abusive nuns derived from their own personal pathology, and NOT from the educational principles of scripture or the Catholic Church.

The lack of institutional oversight within the Catholic church for so many years is the root of the largest problem for today's Church. We have diminishing congregations today because too many people lost faith after witnessing un-Christian-like behavior by Church leaders.

Instead of holding representatives of the Church to the same moral standard the Church professed - the Church leadership ignored issues like pedophilia and corporal punishment. Ignoring the issues may have served a short term interest like keeping more Parishes open or more teachers in Catholic schools. But it also caused many to view the Church as primarily interested in protecting the Church hierarchy at the expense of the lay people.

And unfortunately many of the layity also chose to ignore these moral lapses by the liturgy because they felt to bring them up would somehow lessen their religion or cause them to be at odds with the Church they loved. In the long run the truth always comes out and the damage done to the Church was much greater because the abuse went on for so long without being addressed by Church leadership.

The Catholic Church is strong and it probably will endure. But the damage done by ignoring moral lapses amongst their own liturgy has surely set back the cause of the Church. To continue to ignore these moral lapses or to somehow minimize them because most Priests or Nuns do great things (which they do) or because public school children were abused too - is to continue down the wrong path. You can be Catholic and proud of it while still acknowledging that there are terrible things in the history of the Church. Just as you can be American and proud of it while still acknowledging that there are terrible things (slavery for example) in the history of America.

This probably won't be a popular position, but a child needs to learn many things. How to behave. How to be responsible for thier actions. How to deal with authority., etc. etc. and yes, even how to handle humility and fear. I was spanked many, many times in school. I was never slapped. I give my kids what I call hinder cracks, not exactly full spankings, but violent nonetheless. I truly believe that if you spare the rod, you spoil the child. And I believe that they need all these lessons to be able to face the world out there.

I'm sorry that you went through this kind of education. Not all Catholic education is as bad as what you went through. It is not the norm but the exception. This type of generalization is not fair to people who went through invaluable learning experiences in Catholic schools, and most specially to those who taught well in these schools.

This must be the offset to the hundreds of stories of Catholic schools turning around a kid, a neighborhood and a city. Humiliation and fear comes with life. It is better to learn that the world will not end if you get humiliated in 5th grade than to go postal in college. No kid should be hit in the face, but each kid should have an adult who will inforce rules and set examples. Most people feel fondly for the special nun who helped them. Sorry you did not get to know one.

I went to Catholic School. My term was 8 years. I also had Sisters of Charity, but they were absolutely fantastic. Maybe that's because I never got into trouble so I don't remember it. By the way, I've been teaching in a Catholic School for 32 years. Does that increase my tenure to 40? I have to say that my memories of St. Thomas are great ones. I wonder if it's because there were only 8 kids in my class? As I teacher, wouldn't that be a dream!

I have the same feeling of dread when I think back to my second grade teacher, Sister Margaret Grace. Although she didn't smack me (a girl) there was one boy who was very regularly abused being slapped, shaken, and thrown back into his seat. My heart would race and I would feel sick to my stomach every time it happened. It was an abusive atmosphere and no child should ever have to endure that. My daughter will never attend a Catholic school, and I have since left the Catholic church. I know this doesn't describe most nuns, but it only takes one in your childhood, who was free to abuse, to make you have negative feelings. We had other nuns who were very verbally abusive. I sure don't miss those days.

Yes, I very well remember my sore cracked knuckles. And I must say that although I don't condone capital punishment in the classroom, it certainly didn't scar me for life. I do firmly believe public schools today are way to lax... Teachers insulting and cursing and students and vice versa... it is pathetic.

And here's another opinion from a former student of a Catholic school in NJ. The nuns at our school were Dominican and yes they used rulers across our knuckles and put us in the corner or coat closet for punishment. The priests of our parish never interfered with the school punishments except for a strong lecture now and then. The education far out distanced the public schools. The penmanship was neat and legible. Our manners were the best. We respected adults as every child should. Compare these attributes with the schools and children of today. There is no comparison. Wish there many more schools like mine both in the private sector and in the public school system.

I attended a catholic school for grades one through three in the 50s. I hated going to school every day. In our school, the desks were connected to each other at the bottom. The kid in front of me drew the wrath of the nun by wetting his finger to erase a pencil mark. He didn't have an eraser. The nun shook him so hard that the whole group of four desks shook as though we were in a major earthquake. Contrary to what someone else wrote, there definitely were bullies in the school. When I was bullied, they ignored me and my mother. I remember students getting their mouths washed with soap, although we were so young at that age that we never heard a cussword in school. After the third grade, I went to a public school, where my grades improved considerably. However, I was left with a severe stutter that has never gone away completely. The nuns liked the administer punishment; they were sadists, and were frustrated with their lives.

Yes, I don't want anymore kids to go through humiliation like we did - but I have to admit there was comradeship during those days that is not experienced by today's youth. My right ear is still longer than my left on from getting pulled by Sister Margaret in the fifth grade - and oh, how I will never forget Sister Julia using the ruler during our first Jr. High dance making sure we kept at a proper distance. In spite of it all, the Public School kids though we were much more worldly in our cussing skill, leeriness of authority, and "birds and bees' knowledge. Confessions on Saturday mornings were a big drag in figuring out which one of our gang of six had to confess a really "big sin" to Fr. O'Donnell so the rest of us could hurry out to the basketball court to shoot hoops while the unfortunate soul had to spend extra penance. The buddies made during this schooling were tight then, and are ever so tight now - guess all things were not so bad.

I got news for all you chicks fresh out of the egg shell: It was ROUTINE back then for SOME adults from all walks of life to be insane maniacs when it came to dealing with children while basically ALL adults looked the other way. Yet the focus is always the Catholic Church while statistics show that rabbis, ministers, little league coaches, swim teachers, boy scout leaders, neighbors, cops, doctors are no better or worse. "Back in the day" adults would not be the slightest bit shy about cracking a kid across the face or use verbal/physical intimidation to rule. And a small minority of them were twisted individuals just like a small minority of nuns/priests were. If you happen to come across the rare twisted individuals that's just fate or really bad luck. Atheists smacked their kids around and sexually abused them at the same rate as priests, rabbis, ministers, scout leaders, Mormons, Muslims, Mohegans, etc. But everyone is now convinced the entire Catholic church is evil personified because of the relentless assault by the media. Catholic school system is considered, if not the best, than one of the best places to send your child in order to get a good job. In inner city America parents would literally die to get their kids with the nuns instead of the debauchery/violence of public schools. Every day all across the globe, wonderful Catholic priests and nuns tend to those in hospitals, visit elderly/lonely people whose family doesn't visit, tutor children struggling in school, help troubled teenagers with safe havens from gangs, while taking on the front lines of famine, HIV/AIDS patient care, poverty, and civil rights abuse in the worst conditions the world knows. Priests and nuns are murdered by thugs, gangs, dictators, religious nuts, when they are just simply trying to feed/cloth/heal the poor or save some species of animal important to an animist jungle tribe trying to survive the onslaught of capitalist pigs (who will use materials that eventually wind up in your homes and on your body). Where are the equal time share stories of these Catholics? No ongoing positive stories about the good people in the Catholic Church when there are about 100 million Catholics in America and 2 billion across the globe?

It's substantial today, because of the effect on that kind of behavior on people like me and others. The abuse both physical and metal that I received at the hands of so called christian women at the school I attended turned me away from the Catholic Church. Yes, things may have changed in the many years since then but it does leave a lasting effect on a person's life. Telling someone to deal with it or get over it is a very shallow thing to say. I have gone on to have a wonderful, but I will never forget how evil some of those nuns were.

Back in the 60's and 70's, my brothers and sister attended Catholic elementary school. I escaped that fate until high school. I remember my youngest brother getting in to a bit (ok, a lot) of trouble with the nuns. He was mouthy, prone to wandering off during recess (it was such a nice day, I just went for a little walk), and very hard to intimidate. At the end of fourth grade he proudly told my mother, "I was the only one Sister didn't make cry. Even when she slapped me in the face." The following fall, my brother joined me in public school. My mother also filed a formal complaint that resulted in opening a can of worms for that Catholic school.

Don't get me wrong. I think most of the nuns did a fantastic job in terms of educating the children in their care. But for whatever reason, some of these women resorted to the kind of "discipline" that would be looked on with concern by groups that monitor the reatment of prisoners. My brother continues to be mouthy, prone to wandering, and not only is hard to intimidate, but is very intimidating. Until recently, he worked for a major Wall Street firm, where those characteristics definately were a plus. Even the nuns couldn't beat it out of him.