A Catholic-School Veteran Tells All

I think there's a difference between random smacks across the face, and not random smacks. Still, the smack across the face is degrading no matter what. The question of corporal punishment gets mixed with what exactly is the corporal punishment that is being done, and is it reasonable according to the offense. Ideally a teacher commands respect so that he doesn't need to resort to that. I think there could be a time and place for a child to be held firmly by the shoulders, rattled a little bit, looked straight in the eye, and told what he needs to hear, but even then not yelled at. A mature courageous adult will be heard by a child or even another adult this way, I think.
If corporal punishment it is given impulsively and radomly according to the mood of the teacher, it would create an atmosphere of unease, mistrust and fear. What an atmosphere in which to learn! Another factor is nature of the child you are dealing with; some only need the cross glance from a teacher and they get it. More that that would only break down their strenght and foster vengeance and hatred. I think that a mouthwashing with soap is abusive no matter what. Humiliation never taught anybody anything good. This kind of treatment uses kids as easy, vulnerable targets in which to vent; it is completely unfair. A church where Christ is supposed to be the head should never ever be doing that.

David Noonan did not say whether he chose to attend Catholic School. He did not say if anyone asked him to go there. I will assume that he was forced to go there. Therefore, Catholic School is like prison, because in prison, people are there because they are forced to be there. In fact, the similarity between Catholic School and prison is stronger than the similarity between public school and prison, because in Catholic School, the authorities have more power in how harshly they can punish students. In fact, Catholic School is like Prisoner-Of-War Camps, because in POW camps the authorities can use violence to discipline the prisoners, just like the nuns in Catholic School.

Of course the kids are going to misbehave. It was never their choice to go there in the first place. Offenses such as talking back, swearing, fighting, fooling around in church, and throwing snowballs at girls - are natural reactions to being forced to go somewhere you don't want to go.

if you consider a couple a cracks on the butt VIOLENCE then you are a big wuss--here is a hanky you big drama queen.

if you consider a couple a cracks on the butt VIOLENCE then you are a big wuss--here is a hanky you big drama queen.

As one of six children, close in age, my parents were proud to have us all educated within the Catholic School System in New York. In retroapect, we certainly did learn to read and write....however, we were all gifted with a brilliant mind, blessed with attractive looks, and delightful senses of humor....! All of us suffered because of same within this environment. The virtue of humility, humbleness... Years after, my 7th grade nun told me that I was the most well-adjusted student she ever had....the 8th grade nun/teacher brought me down to where I belonged, she would tell me...! That experience troubled me as I worked to attain a sense of wellness. How dare these people to take control of innocent children and hurt them!!! However, years later, my adopted Mexican daughter, was paddled in a Southern school by a "well-meaning" old line female teacher...in the 2nd grade. When I asked why, she said that my child was associating with two black boys in the class...she had been told not to...! Afterall, she said, your husband's position within this community would not want her being around them. When I took this to the Vice-President of the School Administration, I was told that she must have deserved this corporal puinishment. It was difficult for her enough to have been adopted by a "white" family -- I should have placed her in a private school -- ??? Today, she is an overachiever, beautiful, married and happy, I think! How dare these people decide upon values that the parents should be walking with. No one should paddle anyone -- hit? No! But, mental abuse is a paddle in itself...How would the abuser like the return of same.

amcf

In the 1950s and 60s, I too witnessed endless exercises in child abuse at the hands of hypocritical nuns and priests. The nuns would attend two masses in the morning and then engage in physical and emotional abuse of children during the school day. In the four Catholic schools I attended over eleven years, the behaviors of these sadly guilt-ridden, dysfunctional adults were a constant source of fear and apprehension. There was a pall of hostility and mean-spirited, rigid thinking in all of those environments, and people in my age group second this motion when I talk with them. Christian environments are not about meanness and abuse, but about kindness, forgiveness, and appropriate role-modeling. Unfortunately, the latter were consistently missing in these intimidating Roman Catholic environments.

I attended Catholic parochial schools from the third to eleventh grades. I was simultaneously appalled, angered, and frightened by the corporal punishment I saw some my classmates endure. It seemed to me that the nuns were generally, mean-spirited, angry people and that we students were easy, helpless, and powerless targets. The nuns were inventive with their punishments ??? kneeling or standing for hours, slaps, hitting with paddles, belts or rulers. There were sore and swollen body parts and blood. The worst was the verbal abuse and the public humiliation.

There was a sort of camaraderie amongst us children and even the toughest bully got our sympathy after such punishment. Ironically, it was the way we responded to one another in those situations that taught me the meaning of charity, not the catechism lessons from the Sisters of Charity.

I did not learn discipline. I learned to fear adults, be wary of authority, and dislike the Church for its hypocricy,

What I learned from corporal punishment while in catholic school was that I was never going to send my kids to a catholic school. How many catholic schools have closed or are in the process of closing? I bet they wonder why. You can't abuse your students and expect them to send their kids there in turn.
When my parents hit me, I wasn't thinking about what I did to get the beating; I thought about how much I hated my parents and wished they were dead. I still don't remember why I was ever beat, but I remember the sheer hate. I don't want my son ever feeling that way, so I've never hit hm, and I never will. Guess what? As a result, he's a very well-behaved, even tempered-kid who rarely gets into trouble.

I find it very interesting that so many are citing the students they currently teach or the "hoodlums down the street" as reasons physical punishment should be used when in fact, they may not know if these children do or do not receive this type of punishment. There are very many children on the streets, stealing, "disrespecting" teachers, etc. who are still spanked, still yelled at, and still paddled in school. Very often, children who receive physical punishment still act in much the same manner as those who do not. And very often, children who have never been touched by an adult for punishment still act in much the same manner as those children believed to be well-behaved by reason of spanking. Spanking in and of itself does not make children more obedient or respectful. Not spanking in and of itself does not make a child less fearful or more autonomous.

I attended catholic school in Va. and in Ca. where I learned early on that I would never send my own children to one of those places. I was in K. when I did a little skirt swish playing cheerleader and then got my mouth washed out with soap. I have had knuckles whacked and ears pulled, I learned how to sit with a book on my head for an hour for not having good posture and other silly things. I did learn my values and ten commandments. I also learned that the church is a hippocrite. When I was a little older the warden decided that he was only going to talk to people with money after church. I also was told that he would not baptise my niece because she was "born out of wedlock" I still see the phoney people in the church today. I left the church when I was 18. I am not 62 and still feel the same way. End of story.

I am a middle school teacher and a firm believer that paddling is needed in schools. The majority of the kids I teach (or try to teach) have little to no parental involvement at home. The kids are left to run wild and do as they please at home so they think it is ok to do the same in the classroom. Teachers are severely disrespected by the students because education is not valued in their homes.
Isolating a kid either in or out of the classroom (time out) and in school or out of school suspensions don't work. They don't want to be in the classroom anyway and some will do whatever they can to get out. Suspension is like a vacation: no adult at home, access to t.v., computer, and video games, and no homework. I believe that the psychological aspects of just seeing the paddle hanging on the wall would deter most - after a few "examples".

To caringlady5000: I am sorry your childhood was less than ideal, but Parkinson's Disease is caused by the progressive impairment or deterioration of neurons (nerve cells) in an area of the brain known as the substantia nigra, not from a blow to the head when one is a child. Also the need for paddling has nothing to do with race.

???mglamarmd??? has hit the nail squarely on the head! For every child who conscientiously attends to the business at hand - learning, there are many more who cannot or will not without discipline that will place boundaries on them. The one statement most heard by teachers is "You can't touch me." That sums up, in a nutshell, the problems teachers have been faced with in the classroom for at least the last 20 years. I personally know kids of my generation who were saved by the discipline they received at school from teachers who were more like second parents; there was no discipline or structure at home. These kids could have been lost in a morass of aimlessness and waste without this type of intervention. There are two sides to every issue. I've been a student and a parent. I'd rather children have this discpline and the opportunity to learn in a controlled, consistently managed environment than be subjected to the alternative.

I also went to Catholic school from kindergarten through 8 grade, and believe me when I attended public school in 9th grade I did not learn anything! They were teaching what I had learned in 6th grade and I know why, the kids talked while the teachers talked, got up and left when they wanted and did not listen. You can not learn in that type of classroom, there was no respect for the teachers. Yes, I got the ruler across the knuckles too. My children and now my grandchildren all attend Catholic school and no, they don't use the ruler anymore but the respect for the teachers and doing the work is so driven they would not misbehave. Look at the difference in the behavior of students in Private vs Public schools, the Private ones must be doing something right and if we were so traumatized by the nuns why are we sending our children and our children sending their children to these schools? Because it was NOT traumatizing, what IS traumatizing is going to Public school and hoping you dont get beat up between classes, some students are assaulting the teachers,so I do believe that within reason it is not abuse and you would not see thatbad behavior in Private school.

I went to St Gabriel's School and Church from 1961 to 1969 with my three brothers, I went on to Mackin High 1969 to 1973 along with my older brother, my two younger brothers went to public high school (Boys Catholic High) I still remember vividly in my 2nd grade class my teacher, Sister James Patrick was a terror, everbody was terrified of her, she would wack you across your knickles with a ruler for minor offenses. But the big offenses you get to have your ass beat with your own belt in the boys or girls bathroom. She, along with some of the other sisters, used to like pulling you by the ears. My younger brother used to get his ear pulled so much, that it split where the ear connected to his head. But if you were smart you learned the rules early on, you would be OK, some hardheads like my brother just had to learn it the hard way. But one thing it did was maintain order and disicpline in the school. My mother gave the school full permission to discpline us they saw fit, then they would call her at home inform her as such. She would then be waiting for you at the door when you got home with her version of the belt and she would beat you for embarrassing her at school because you seem to forgot how to act in school. She also gave this permission to all the parents in the neighboorhood. Her saying used to be, "If you catch them acting up, Slug Em and let me know". And like my hardheaded younger brother, would get his ass beat by a perent in the neighboorhood and then get his ass beat again when he gets home for embarrassing her in the neighboorhood, beacuse we did not know haow to act when out. Mom felt we represent her when we're out and about with out her, and should act accordingly.

Maybe, You are confusing with been abusive, promote fear and nonsense reprimand versus paddle!. We need paddle in our schools but only with sense and human dignity (not going too far). Why? discipline , my friends! we must have discipline!!!!