A Catholic-School Veteran Tells All

Anyone dare to compare the graduation rate of a catholic school compared to public. How about the college enrollment in comparison. Better education in a catholic school.

I attended Sacred Heart in Queens in the '60s and Sister Ann Mary was the one to fear. I can remember my poor younger brother (age 6!) throwing up each morning before school due to the anxiety this woman caused him. Her preferred method of teaching her young students how to add and subtract? "How many times am I going to bang your head against the blackboard?"

Been there, done that. I put in 9 years myself. You described the catholic school in the 50's and 60's to the T. That's exactly how it was, how it happened. Hear us roar, we are legion !!!

I'm not sure why this article was even accepted for publication. It adds nothing new and no objective facts to a subject that has been overworked and exaggerated over many years. I attended Catholic schools in the 50s and 60s and witnessed absolutely none of the behavior that Mr Noonan describes. It's sad that some students experienced the weaker side of human nature, but it is unfair to extend this to all Catholic Schools. Perhaps someone had similar experiences in a public school and would like to share those with us.

This is all quite amusing....as a Recovring Catholic who attended 1960's era Catholic school from 3rd thru 9th grade, I can speak to both sides of this contest. While Catholic school shaped the way I look at things in a broad sense, it also did indeed help me in alot of unusual ways thruout life. It toughened me up to Reality & taught me how to "apply myself". It taught me how to put up with crap when in my better interest to do so, & to rebel against the same when unfairly or unjustly wronged--myself or others. It gave me a conscience I might not have developed otherwise. The worst of the abusiveness from nuns was witnessing one older nun beating the hell out of an unfortunate boy who, by today's standard, would have been deemed ADHD with severe emotional problems. The verbal abuses were routine---being called stupid, heathen, sinful, etc. But the verbal abuse was no more than I was already accustomed to at home.

I too spent 9 years in Catholic school and look back to those days as total humiliation. The nuns in the name of God and love had no problem humilating chiildren. The emotional abuse was far worse than the physical. Every day they would call kids names, make fun of something a kid did or if they forgot their lunch. It was hell. I learned my manners and respect at home from my parents where I was never humilated for anything. I tell my mom that anything thats wrong with me is because of those crazy nuns!!!

Wow, David, what a whiner. I also attended catholic schools in the 60's. I had nuns for teachers and they were not afraid to use discipline. Yeah I got smacked plenty of times. And I deserved it plenty of times too. The nuns, though extremely strict, were fair. Everyone was expected to behave and you were there to learn. In this time of rampant bullying in schools, so severe that some children are driven to suicide, I long for teachers that can actually have control over the self-absorbed kids parents are parading out into society. NO BULLY would have had a chance against the nuns that taught me. And by the way since you're throwing dirt at a relatively easy target these days (not so original David), let me point out that I attended catholic schools in the South - before integration took hold. That catholic school in town was the only school that allowed anybody to attend. And it was these same, tough as nails nuns, that stood up to the threats of a large portion of the white community and refused to back down. As a result, many of the black children in the town, (almost exclusively non Catholics) were able to get excellent educations and were expected to by the nuns to achieve at as high a level as anyone else. This was something that was not afforded to them by the public schools of the day.
So David, in our current "enlightened" society where so many parents thinks their child is gifted and deserves never to be held accountable for inappropriate behavior because it may squelch their creativity..... Wake up. Education is difficult and takes hard work - as is being an adult in our society. And those same children that are indulged by their communities often prove to be a real pain for the rest of us when they grow up and can't figure out why everything doesn't go their way. You may hate the nuns..... But then again, I'll bet you paid attention in school. And now, during these tough economic times, you have an enviable job working for NEWSWEEK.
So David, who exactly taught you to read and write? Next time, a simple ???thank you??? will do.

To last question, a simple response: ALL. For as long as this is not the only educational mean, all humans need to learn humility and fear. It makes them whole as humans. Otherwise, we only get a bunch of cocky loonies with no respect for anything or anyone, with no sense of value and no instinct to avoid bad behavior. Does it sound like recipe for jail? It surely looks like one.

I went all through Catholic grade and high school and saw a nun strike or physicall punish a student only once. This boy was put in our school because he had exhausted the public school system and no one could handle him or get him to behave. She was a small nun, strict but sweet, and this boy pushed her patience to the end. After a particularly nasty outburst in class and crude remarks to her, she finally lost it. Little as she was she picked that 8th grader up by his shirt and slammed him against the blackboard with a few repeated bumps here and there before she called the principal. He had a deep respect for her after that and I don't recall any more trouble in her class. We were a small parochial school and we received an excellent education. The university professors in our city always remarked that students from our education system had one attribute over the public school system, we were taught how to study. I wouldn't give up my Catholic school experience for anything.

Oh the memories...whether good or bad these years have spawned many a conversation amongst siblings, families, and friends. These times have been depicted in song and in shows. I remember the fear and intimidation and probably brought some of that on myself. Unfortunately the many stories instilled into the hearts and souls of young impressionable believers has lead to many leaving the Catholic Church. Oops, there I go capitilizing the Catholic Church because I don't want to be burried with my hand always above the grave for that sin.

My favorite abuse story resulted from a show and tell that I brought in. It was a mixture of fluids of different densities that were mixed and layered into different sections in a jar based on the density of the fluid. I had water/syrup/oil and some others.

The nun put it next to a window that opened in and she accidentally smashed it to the floor. Of course it was my fault for bringing in such a stupid thing. I remember being yelled at and smacked viciously and having to clean up the mess (that I didn???t make). The on my knees cleanup and hitting weren???t that bad. It was the degradation in front of the class for what I still think was a cool experiment that hurt the most.

Fortunately after that incident my parents pulled me from there and put me in a public school with great teachers that supported and encouraged me. I ended up with a career in science and technology so the nuns attempt to beat and degrade me back to the 12 century didn???t work.

Slapping the face, smacking the knuckles and spankings! What's next...public executions? And it's all for god? C'mon people!!!

Noonan mentions the unpredicitbilty of the punishment by saying that a fresh remark one day could bring rebuke, but the next day a smack across the face. Did you ever think that the rebuke the first day was a warning? That's why you got smacked the next day! I too went to Catholic school for 13 years. It was no fun, but I think a lot of the comments here regarding repeated punishment come from people who were stubborn kids and didn't learn the first time they got smacked not to mouth off again! Let me tell you, my parents investment in Catholic school paid off: I can read, write, spell, do some math, have good manners, graduated from H.S. in 1985 without having sex or trying drugs, graduated from college in four years, I have never been arrested, I have been married to the same guy for 20 years, and our two children go to Catholic school.

I went to Catholic school in the 70's and 80's. We had a nun who resorted to physical violence (pushing kids against the chalk board and slamming the desk top on their head), but the worst abuse from a teacher was the two years I went to public school. We had a teacher who would pull kids up by their hair who were sitting at their desks. She would have the kids taunt and humiliate you as you sat in a corner if you didn't finish your math page on time. There's more, but I always like to set the record straight when I hear horror stories of Catholic schools. The public schools were just as bad if not worse. And the comraderie was there among students because of the kids who attended the Catholic schools, not because of the abuse.

My daughter attends Catholic School in East Tennessee, one of the few in the area that still does have a handful of nuns. And although I've heard the stories that you mention in your article, I think that's more a thing of the past. Our school is wonderful, the teachers are great, the nuns are educated, the school and parish have a family atmosphere, and it today's world it's nice to know I don't have to worry about my daughter while she is there....they do teach discipline...not by the practices you speak of....but they also teach religon, tolerance, and a whole lot of love!