The answer is unleashing markets—not government.

meanwhile we let the other industrialized nations all show us up - they can cover EVERYONE for less many than we spend. Somehow they manage to do more with less money.

This is just like the fight to get American automakers to make fuel efficient cars - they didn't and look where they are now.

Why do we refuse to think we can come up with a process to ensure everyone gets basic BASIC medical care. 20,000 people less dying due to lack of medical treatment.

I agree that we need to reform our healthcare system. I just can't understand all the terms we have to deal with, with respect to our Healthcare plans today. Terms like "Premium" ??? your weekly or monthly contribution deducted from your paycheck to cover your share of the cost of your insurance. Or "Co-Payment" ??? a fixed dollar amount the patient must pay for a particular service prior to any payments made by the medical plan for services rendered. Co-payments do not accumulate toward the out-of-pocket maximum. And then there is "Deductible" ??? the initial, upfront dollar amount the patient is required to pay prior to any payments made by the medical plan for services rendered within a calendar year. Deductibles accumulate toward your out-of-pocket maximum. This next one is a real favorite of mine, "Co-Insurance" ??? the percentage of the bill paid by the medical plan and the patient for services rendered. Co-insurance amounts for the patient accumulate toward the out-of-pocket maximum... (I thought I was paying for insurance already with my "Premium" each week / month). And last but not least "Out-of-Pocket Maximum" ??? the maximum dollar amount the patient will pay for services rendered (within a calendar year) before the medical plan will pay at 100 percent. With all of these terms is it no wonder we have uninsured people in this country? You practically need a Law degree to understand all the terminology. And then there are the questions you need to ask yourself like do you or a family member require specialists or specific treatments, does someone in your family need chronic care or costly medication, what other factors are important to you, a specific doctor, catastrophic event coverage...
I'm sorry I need to stop now, I think I am making myself sick, could anyone out there recommend a good doctor?

Canadian Health Insurance Vs. No Health Insurance Or Under-Insured Coverage.

Many Lives are Lossed each Year in America, because of Low Health Care Insurance, No Health Insurance Care or Rejected Health Insurance Claims, based on Loop Holes of Insurance Companies, looking to Avoid High Cost Associated with Under Insured Patients, whose Operations & Care [Cost Too Much]

The Insurance Companies Easy Out...

[Pre-Existing Conditions or Ailments]
---------------------

The Canadian Health Care System is a [Gem] Compared to America's Privatized Health Insurance [System]

Some say there are [47 Million Un-Insured]

I say that's Borderline Bull-Spit !

The number of Un-Insured and Under-Insured in America is Much Higher than that !!

If you count those with Low, Mid-Range or Insufficient Health Coverage, the Number is ..

[Far Greater] !!!

These People might as well be Considered [Un-Insured] because anyone who is not 100% Covered, in the Health Insurance World is [Un-Insured]

[30-40-50 % Insured]...

Is Not [100% Insured] or Covered.

An when they get that 1st Bill of...

[$ 100,000 - 400,000- 700,000]....

Its Bankruptcy or Suicide, Only 2 Ways Out, for the [Poor Souls]...

The 3rd Alternative, would be to Deny or Reject Hospital Care and simply Wither Away at Home or in some Low Cost Convalescent Care Center and thats [Suicidal] within itself, if you see, some of these Low Cost Facilities and how Patients are treated, you'd fully understand what I mean !!!
--------------------

Canadians have the Luxury of having National Health Care Coverage, so they can seek Help in Canada the USA or else where and know they will be Covered.

An if there's an [Emergency] that cannot wait, Canadians are Accepted here in the states, because the American Hospital System, know they'll be [Paid] Up Front...

Unlike the Unpredictable Privatized Insurance Companies in America, regarding their [Under- Insured Patients]

Lets face it, People are going to [DIE] no matter what, in any case, but it is Better to Die without Leaving Family Members in [DEBT] than to Leave Family Members Scrambling to Pay off your [HOSPITAL DEBTS] and that's the Vicious Cycle here in America.

Generational Debt via Gigantic Hospital Bills left Behind !!!

>Republicans believe health care can be best guided by consumers, physicians and markets;<
Question... isn't that what got the US health care industry in its current condition? Can Republicans come up with any new ideas?

Another good article, even though there are parts of it I disagree with. This and the previous link I posted do emphasize my point that strictly for profit systems do not work well in health care because of increasing costs. It seems hybrid systems are working in other countries, as they say that both sides have strengths and weaknesses and they work better in tandem.

The problem we have is lobbyists, in my opinion. They create a problem not just because of what they do (get government to take care of the few over the many) but also because of the trust we lose in our government. That loss of trust means we are extremely wary and cynical, fighting everything our government wants to do because we cannot just believe they are doing it for us. I feel this is the greatest danger our government faces from its people right now.

I think a lot of our problem is with the definition of socialized medicine. It seem that the countries always portrayed as "socialized" don't fit the definition we have been fed to frame this argument. If we can get over the misleading titles and look at the systems with fresh and unblinkered eyes then we will all be much better off.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/BOE402A.html

This is beautiful! Hey everyone, check out this article so we can get some more perspective on this issue.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/themes/socialized.html

"Whether it is the legitimate role of our government to provide health care is a pretty important thing to consider." Ok, I'll challenge you. You show me a working system based on the free market that doesn't have rising health care costs and then we'll have something to talk about. As near as I can tell in my research, there isn't one single health care system except ours based on this principle. There are dozens of single payer, the WHO rates most of them better quality, and all of them cost less than ours. Besides, even if it was substandard care it's better than no care at all.

""To them it's a business, and business's turn profits."
Of course it is. If a business is losing money, it has to fire workers or cut salaries, reduce services to YOU, etc. Businesses that don't turn profits go out of business. "Profit" is a perfectly natural part of an economy and isn't something evil." It is when it interferes with the health care of my family. It is when peoples whole lives are ruined because the care they need to survive bankrupts them and their families. It is when we are so caught up in ideology that we cannot function even as well as other countries who have been using this system now for over 50yrs.

""You also haven't offered any alternatives that work as far as I've seen."
Listen, I'm not a policy expert. It's not my fault that the only policies being discussed are universal health care vs. "free market solutions", i.e. no policy. I wish there was more discussion of other approaches. I'm not going to claim to personally have some grand alternative. I'm only remarking that your view point is overly simplistic and ignores a lot of serious concerns about the single payer system." Agreed we do need to have more discussion about this issue, if the lobbyists will let us talk to the people who matter about it. Really, it was never an issue I cared about until I started researching this and realized how screwed up we are as a system. Problems with single payer, maybe. It does seem to have far fewer problems that we have in our current system.

"There might also be good reason for the higher costs, such as medical research (the U.S. spends more per capital than Europe and mostly from private funding)" I will have to look this up but seriously, I want my health care providers providing health care, not spending millions on labs to do basic research. These are two totally different jobs and aren't really compatible that I've seen.

"On the other hand politicians will make decisions based on what sounds nice and gets votes, even if it means putting off tough decisions and being fiscally irresponsible." It's fiscally irresponsible to save us money, 5% of our yearly GDP? To follow the lead of countries that have had this for decades and have better systems than we have? Show me how it will bankrupt our system. Let me see it in real figures, don???t just say it.

You have called me overly simplistic. You have said I rant. You may not like what I have to say, even though I truly appreciate having you to use as a debate partner. However, you have failed to provide a better alternative. You have failed to show me a system based on your ideology that is working anywhere in the world, including here. I have shown you dozens of systems which use single payer and all of them are cheaper, cover more of their people and have decades of successful use.

The funniest part is that I'm not even a Democrat! I used to be Republican but consider myself fiercely independent now because the Republicans have so started to believe their own B.S. that I cannot find much common ground with them any more.

Thank you for playing and I do hope to hear from you or anyone else here who can debate this so that all sides can be heard.

"Let me also add that a single payer system is no longer being considered; the Democrats are now considering more politically viable versions of Universal Health Care that are not single payer, including Obama's proposal. So to talk about single payer health care is aside the point. " Yep, and we can thank our lobbying system for that. I 'll make a bet with you. Under this hybrid system, we will have continue to have rising health care costs because that is what is required of systems designed for profit. Watch and see if I'm wrong.

"That's funny considering you managed to parrot every usual Democrat talking point regarding health care, down to the statistics supporting your view that health care is better in Canada and England." That's what is so funny! This was my own research, not something parroted from someones elses work. I looked this up on my own and so should anyone who wants to take an intelligent position. Maybe the Dems were the ones not lying, if they came up with the same results I did.

""this brain dead ideological argument about private vs. public"" I said this not to make debate seem stupid but because the talking heads have us involved in the wrong arguement. It shouldn't be about private vs. public but which one is cheaper based on real world working models and dollars and cents. You state that health care is the responsibility of business and not government and that is my point. To them it's a business, and business's turn profits. That's why we have an increasing cost for health care, when no other GOVERMENT RUN program in every other country doesn't. I don't care about ideology, about government or business models. I want at least what every other country has and if private companies cannot match it then I want them out of the business. Some things are too important to leave to the obvious greed of corporate America. As I said, is private enterprise too scared to step up?

"What if that guy was someone like W. Bush? Would you still trust the government to manage your health care?". Yes. I trust Obama more to help set it up but once things are up and running government doesn't like to change things. Every other country manages to do it. Besides, your choices aren't limited under single payer. You can have all the private health insurance your little heart desires to make sure you feel safe.

In response to jstepp590

"Do your research, or at least read the results of mine before you start parroting what you've been told to believe."
That's funny considering you managed to parrot every usual Democrat talking point regarding health care, down to the statistics supporting your view that health care is better in Canada and England.

"this brain dead ideological argument about private vs. public"
It is not "brain dead" to consider what the proper role of government is regarding health care. Universal Health Care would be a major change in the role of our government. I happen to think that health care is the responsibility of businesses, since health care is goods and services, and not of the government. But if you disagree, where does the role of government end and the jurisdiction of the citizens and businesses begin?

You seem to have this mistaken notion that screwing over the health care professionals to get what you think is better health care is a good thing. Health care is a good and service: you pay doctors and other health professionals to find out why you are ill and treat you using medicine, etc. To expect top quality health care at little to no cost to you is absurd. These health care professionals are hard working people like you and I and should be paid for their efforts. Also, as a basic law of economics, you have a scarcity of these resources and have to have distribute the resources somehow. If not through the market, usual this is done through rationing; there are pros and cons to this (I personally prefer the greedy market to rationing).

"I trust Obama and if he says we need a blend of private and government then I have enough faith in him to take him at his word to start with."
How about the guy after Obama? What if that guy was someone like W. Bush? Would you still trust the government to manage your health care?

Let me add that I know people who say things like "I wish we had a single payer system like they have in Europe so that I get free health care". (Of course, upon correction, they always acknowledge that their taxes pay for the "free" health care.) I'm not so sure I want the government providing "free" services. Let me also add that a single payer system is no longer being considered; the Democrats are now considering more politically viable versions of Universal Health Care that are not single payer, including Obama's proposal. So to talk about single payer health care is aside the point.

I am not saying our health care system does not need reformed. But there are plenty of reasons it needs reformed and plenty of ways to pursue reform. I think we should look into that before jumping to the single payer system. Also, the discussion of public vs. private is important to consider.

Now, I'm not saying that single payer is the only answer because I'm just someone who can do grade school math and research the internet. I trust Obama and if he says we need a blend of private and government then I have enough faith in him to take him at his word to start with. I just don't see how you can have a company which has to turn a profit compete with a government run program that doesn't need to turn a profit. This is why private health care doesn't happen in other countries; we're behind the power curve.

Just the fact that we are having this conversation and the health care companies are finally running scared is a step in the right direction. We cannot allow lobbyists and special interests to have more say in our government than we do and that only comes from educating people and getting them to think outside of partison politics.

Would it be a paradigm shift in our health care, absolutely. Would the people in charge of our health care system get beaten up and either turned non-profit or be put out of business as has happened in other countries? Absolutely! Would the money that health care companies charge have to be seriously curtailed, yep! Guess what, this is exactly what is needed to make our health care affordable for everyone and exactly what other non lobbyist challenged first world country does except for us.

So, are we willing to continue to live with our piss poor health care system, one that contrary to popular conservative belief (propaganda) says is the best in the world but is actually a laughing stock, just to support some ideological purity? Will we continue to not even cover our children, which seems to me to be the least any civilized country should do? Will we continue to protect the livelihoods of health care professionals over the health of the very people they are supposed to protect and that we pay more than any other country and with little to show? I think we need to define our priorities and keep our eye on the ball once the B.S. starts flying. Force them to explain it to you with (real) facts and figures instead of like a chump and you too can have a government that respects you.

Do not believe the instant propaganda without fact checking yourself. Too many people are making too much money on our corrupt and inefficient system and they will fight reform tooth and nail, truth be damned. Try to act like we're intelligent human beings with an ability to research on our own and it will be much harder to treat us like suckers.

Well, every other country manages to do it except for us. How can we afford it? How can we not!

For those of us confused by propaganda. a government run single payer system is cheaper because you cut out the middle men. Do your research, or at least read the results of mine before you start parroting what you've been told to believe. Let's compare systems, shall we, with two of the examples (Canada and England) which critics of health reform try to throw out as "bad" examples of where they are "scared" we're being led.

1) We spend roughly 15.2% of GDP on health care. Canada spends 9.9% and England spends 7.8%.
2) We cover 2/3's of our people (sort of). Both Canada and England cover all their people.
3) The US ranks 37th in health care according to the WHO. Canada ranks 30th and England ranks 18th.

We pay 33% more money for this? This is the system everyone is afraid of?

I've heard that it isn't "fair" to our health care system to go to a government program. That doctors won't make as much as they want. That a lot of health care "professionals" will be out of work. That sounds like progress to me! That some HMO corporate hack can't buy another McMansion and his wife has to drive a Ford instead of a BMW or Mercedes, bought on the blood and health of our families? I call that eliminating waste. Kind of makes sense why other countries have 100% coverage for less money and with better health care, because they don't have this brain dead ideological argument about private vs. public. To me I want as many people covered for as little as possible, something which will never happen as long as greedy and morally bankrupt private companies are involved.