ISRAEL

Nonfighters Pick A Fight

By Kevin Peraino and Joanna Chen | NEWSWEEK
Published May 2, 2009
From the magazine issue dated May 18, 2009

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  • Posted By: Nosmanic @ 05/02/2009 10:58:11 PM

    But the real question is why because they don't want to be in the miltary, that I feel is understandable. Or they don't feel the actions that the miltary takes are just. Or something else.

    I don't see why they should have to serve since American Jews don't have to serve. And their parents are the one's that really decided for them.

    • Posted By: froy1100 @ 05/05/2009 8:59:04 AM

      Probably they don't like the idea of being sent to kill Palestinian children

      • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/05/2009 9:34:05 AM

        "Probably they don't like the idea of being sent to kill Palestinian children"

        If they liked the idea of killing innocent children they would have to become a member of Hamas or the PLO since that is what they do.

        • Posted By: froy1100 @ 05/08/2009 9:38:11 AM

          Well, try to count how many children has Hamas killed, and how many the Tzahal. You will side which one is the paradise of the infanticides.

          Solution, for the period between Jan 2005-Oct 2008: Hamas (and other Palestinian groups): 12, Tzahal (and other Israeli infanticides): 412

          Source: UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA).

          • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/08/2009 3:04:10 PM

            But since the children the Israelis killed were almost entirely used by Hamas a human shields when they were engaging in attacks against Israel (including Israeli children and other civilians), the deaths are primarily Hamas' fault not the Israeli's. Hamas intentionally kills children, the Israelis do not. Big difference.

            • Posted By: froy1100 @ 05/09/2009 5:58:50 AM

              I hope you can come up with something better than that. It's quite a lame excuse for murdering over 400 children (and not including the other hundreds killed in the Cast Lead carnage).

              I would find any way to avoid joining an army with such a horrendous record, human shields or not.

              • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/10/2009 3:42:37 PM

                Actually it is nota an excuse it is a valid reasoning. They did not murder anyone.

                And why would they want a member of Hamas in their military?

    • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/03/2009 2:27:46 PM

      "But the real question is why because they don't want to be in the miltary, that I feel is understandable. Or they don't feel the actions that the miltary takes are just. Or something else. "

      Those are good questions.

      "I don't see why they should have to serve since American Jews don't have to serve."
      IF am American Jew moves to Israel and becomes a citizen (and is of service age) they DO have to serve.

      "And their parents are the one's that really decided for them."
      That makes no sense.

  • Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 05/06/2009 3:36:50 PM

    Or,

    NEWSWEAK Cracks Down On Letting The News Get In Their Way.

    As it is. NEWSWEAK has thus far carefully refrained [as is proper for an administration stooge and mouthpiece], from directly addressing Obamas demand that Israel dump it's nukes. This is hardly the way for Biden to get the Bush-owned ''road map''back on track,especially when we consider that the crafty Syria and Iran have been playing the Expected One like a carnival rube, with Iran sending in its gunships into northern Iraq over the weekend to go up against the Kurds,and Syria again meddling in Lebanon. Thus NEWSWEAK , ever and anon ignoring what is really ticking in the world today [no mention yet of the nearly half a million refugees fleeing Pakistans SWAT Valley ahead of the Taliban], to focus on Israel chasing down draft dodgers in vintage Vietnam-era style.

    ''Oh yeah. That hippie. Well, he went over the hill last night. Boy I sure would not want to be in his shoes when they catch him''

    Earl Holliman . ''Tribes'' [1970].

    • Posted By: froy1100 @ 05/08/2009 9:41:16 AM

      Israel is a paranoid and extremely aggressive nation. Allowing them to have nukes is like giving amphetamines to a schizo.

      • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/08/2009 7:43:50 PM

        "Israel is a paranoid and extremely aggressive nation."

        They are not at all paranoid. They have a neighbor who has a stated policy that icludes destroying the nation and killing all of its residents (and Syria is not much better.)

        And Hamas is far more aggressive than Israel is. IF Hamas actually stoped thier attacks Israel would make peace in a second. But asking Hamas to stop its attacks is like asking a human being to stop breeathing. Terrorism is what Hamas lives for.

        " Allowing them to have nukes is like giving amphetamines to a schizo."

        And yet they have not used them. Sounds like they are a responsible nuclear power. They know that thier having nuclear capabilities is the only thing that has kept them from being more seriously attacked by thier Arab Nation neighbors in recent times.

        • Posted By: froy1100 @ 05/09/2009 6:06:55 AM

          Guess what? Hamas stopped all armed actions against Israel last year during the truce they struck in June. What did Israel do during that time? Kill 22 Palestinians, wound 62, and kidnap 38 residents in the Gaza Strip. And of course, leave the blockade of Gaza intact, contrary to what they had agreed at the beginning of the ceasefire and causing yet another humanitarian crisis.

          I guess it wasn't the rockets what was motivating Israel to collectively punish 1.5 million people. But it's always nice to have a good excuse in front of your Western allies for carrying out your ethnic cleansing campaign.

          • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/10/2009 3:41:19 PM

            Where did you get those numbers? Al Jazeera or maybe Air Hamas?

            They did not not stop agressive actions.

        • Posted By: blak@newsweek @ 05/09/2009 3:13:02 AM

          Aggressive yet democratic. Peace with Egypt and Jordan supposes that it is possible with all organised liberal or democratic states. States within States, Nationalism and Extremism is not the answer just as Israel's use of force is not the answer but they resolve to it as the only means of protection and survival.

          • Posted By: froy1100 @ 05/09/2009 6:10:28 AM

            Wrong, they resolve to it as the best means to keep the Palestinians on their knees while they steal their land and reduce their habitat to a few disconnected and inviable bantustans.

        • Posted By: blak@newsweek @ 05/09/2009 3:14:13 AM

          Aggressive yet democratic. Peace with Egypt and Jordan supposes that it is possible with all organised liberal or democratic states. States within States, Nationalism and Extremism is not the answer just as Israel's use of force is not the answer but they resolve to it as the only means of protection and survival.

  • Posted By: rurichman @ 05/10/2009 3:23:02 PM

    Hamas stopped all armed sanctions, what a flat out lie...they continued to send rockets into Israel and did not stop until israel responded to there attacks in Gaza...its amazing and not surprising when racism distorts all the is truth

  • Posted By: abe4600 @ 05/06/2009 12:26:38 PM

    I am tired of hearing people whine about unfair government policies and yet keep electing radicals like Netanyahu all over the world.

  • Posted By: abe4600 @ 05/06/2009 12:26:19 PM

    I am tired of hearing people whine about unfair government policies and yet keep electing radicals like Netanyahu all over the world.

  • Posted By: mouselion @ 05/03/2009 7:58:33 AM

    Compulsory military service by any nation is wrong. One should be able to follow their conscience. Even worse, investigating the religious life of those who are conscience objectors proves that Israel is more of a theocratic dictatorship than a democracy.

    • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/03/2009 2:33:04 PM

      "Compulsory military service by any nation is wrong."
      Why? Compulsory military service would supposedly make ALL people equal. That way not only the poor end up serviing.

      "One should be able to follow their conscience."
      That depends.

      " Even worse, investigating the religious life of those who are conscience objectors proves that Israel is more of a theocratic dictatorship than a democracy."

      You obviously do not understand the resoning for why they investigate the religious life of those who refuse to serve. Israel, unfortunately at tis founding, put into law that the extrememly Orthodox do not have to serve. It had nothing to do with conscientioous objection. They did this because the extremists blackmailed them into it in order to form the country. They made the garbage claim that the Orthodox had to instead spend thier time engaged in religous study in order to keep the country "holy". Checking up on the religious life is makeing sure that the people claiming to be extremist religous are in fact walking the walk.

      • Posted By: mouselion @ 05/05/2009 12:30:17 PM

        Why compulsory military service is wrong:
        Some people in the world are morally opposed to participating in war.
        While it may appear to be a way to be a social equalizer, it tramples on the rights of those who are conscientious objectors.
        Israel is certainly a democracy, my point is that spying on the religious life of someone is yet another violation of individual rights.
        May Israel and its Arab neighbors learn to live in peace.

        • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/05/2009 1:40:08 PM

          "Some people in the world are morally opposed to participating in war.
          While it may appear to be a way to be a social equalizer, it tramples on the rights of those who are conscientious objectors."

          I understand that viewpoint and, in fact agree that Israel needs a conscientious objector rule for their military. They also need the option of civil non-military service for those who object to military service.

          "Israel is certainly a democracy, my point is that spying on the religious life of someone is yet another violation of individual rights."

          They are not spying. Since the person who is claiming exemption signs a legal document stating that they should be exempted becuase they are Orthodox Yeshiva Students, iti s the right of the government to confirm this (even though I persoanlly think that tht is not a vliad reason to be exempted.)

          "May Israel and its Arab neighbors learn to live in peace."

          Agreed.

          • Posted By: Motty @ 05/05/2009 8:00:58 PM

            Israel has a form of nonmilitary national service ("Sherut Leumi") that some can perform in place of military service.

  • Posted By: SilentObserver_intheCorner @ 05/05/2009 1:53:12 PM

    This is sloppy reporting. If one were to take a look at the story carefully, then one would see that author or poster has repeated at least two sections of writing to make four paragraphs. The report should have been smaller, but it seems like someone is slacking over there at news week. If I was the editor I would be furious to think that the staff believes that people who read the articles are gullible enough not to notice. Other than the blaring typesetting it is a fairly interesting article on how willing some are to get out of mandatory service.

  • Posted By: sieg6529 @ 05/04/2009 10:52:43 AM

    Gotta love them theocratic dictatorships. Makes me glad and proud that the USA doesn't have an ongoing draft.

    • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/04/2009 11:27:44 PM

      "Gotta love them theocratic dictatorships."

      Explain how Israel is a theocratic dictatorhsip. It is unlikey that you can therefoer your post is garbage.

      • Posted By: froy1100 @ 05/05/2009 8:55:23 AM

        Right, more of a theocratic ultra-militarized paranoid pseudo-democracy

        • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/05/2009 9:42:35 AM

          "Right, more of a theocratic ultra-militarized paranoid pseudo-democracy"

          Let's see,
          Arab citizens are allowed to vote in elections and serve in the Kenneset - therefore not a pseudo democracy
          There are secular members of Kenneset and completely non-relgious parties.- therefore not really theocratic (although the religious do have toomuch power)
          Are other relgions (and atheists) allowed to have freedom of worship? Yes. (Try that in the Arab nations, you will be lucky to get out alive.)
          And the Arab nations actualy have stated a goal to destroy the nation ad kill all of its citizens (and the PLO cahrter actually still has words to that effect in it) - therefore not paranoid at all

          As for being ultra-militarized. whne you are surrounded by nations that have your destruction as a goal and have rejected most attempts at peace talks- it does not make sense to not have a strong military.

          Is Israel perfect? No. Does it make mistakes? Yes (But unlike the nations around it, it does actuqally investsigate claims of improper conduct)

          If you want paranoid, theocratic, pseudo(or even non) democracies you need to look at the nations around Israel, not Israel.

          • Posted By: mouselion @ 05/05/2009 12:24:55 PM

            But isn't it true that the Arab legislators were barred from the Kenessett (sp?) during Israel's invasion of Gaza in January?

            • Posted By: Constitution Lover @ 05/05/2009 1:42:14 PM

              Not sure. If they were then Israel was wrong.

  • Posted By: egs_public@bellsouth.net @ 05/04/2009 6:56:52 PM

    Where are Newsweek's editors? Everything after "The site includes a disclaimer..." is repeated. The title "Nonfighters Pick A Fight" has nothing to do with anything that happened in the story. The draft dodgers seem to be trying to avoid getting caught rather than trying to provoke any fights.

    I hope this is not they kind of quality we can expect from the new Newsweek.

  • Posted By: egs_public@bellsouth.net @ 05/04/2009 6:46:13 PM

    Where are Newsweek's editors? Everything after "The site includes a disclaimer..." is repeated. What does the title, "Nonfighters Pick A Fight" have to do with the story? I didn't see anything that said any non-fighters were trying to provoke a fight, unless they are calling Benjamin Netanyahu's government "nonfighers" for some reason.

    I hope this isn't what we should expect from the new Newsweek.

  • Posted By: RGValleyGal @ 05/04/2009 6:01:22 PM

    I don't really believe in a mandatory draft for any country as it inhibits the rights of the person. Yet, on the other hand, it is a way that everyone can serve his/her country. What I feel don't understand is how we have all these laws set by the government about discrimination against the disabled, but the disabled cannot be in any branch of the armed forces. Makes no sense. If a person can sit behind a desk and answer the phone or do data entry on a computer, why not allow them to serve in the capacity in which they are able? I tried to enlist back in my "early years", but was turned down only because I have asthma. Ok, so it is a disease, but they don't have to send all of the troops to the front lines. Let the disabled serve in a capacity that they are able! This seems like discrimination to the max when we say disabled cannot serve!

    It would have let me become a career person and able to retire with pride and a decent pension to live on. Considering that with all the discrimination in the past that hit me and made employment next to impossible for me. My social security disability is barely enough to live off of and I have to rely on HUD housing and food stamps (for which I thank God everyday!!) in order to make it thru each month. Had I been a retired service person, it wouldn't be this hard. Kind of a Catch 22, right?

    JMHO
    JMHO

  • Posted By: mouselion @ 05/03/2009 8:01:03 AM

    Compulsory military participation is wrong for any nation. Furthermore, to investigate the religious lives of conscientious objectors makes Israel more of a theocratic dictatorship than a democracy.

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