When Myth Trumps Science

Whether it's thinking that vitamin C can cure a cold, or that you must drink eight glasses of water a day, people cling to outdated medical lore long after it's been shown to be wrong. Here's why.

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  • Posted By: pdskep @ 05/28/2009 2:55:44 PM

    It's time we get rid of the biggest myth of all R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N. Let's just learn to cope with reality and go about of lives.

    • Posted By: brenniewinters @ 08/28/2009 11:26:49 AM

      Spirituality and religion differ. Religion says I must adhere to a certain set of rules or be guilty. Spirituality says there is one loving G-d who loves all creations the same and all belongs to HIm which is the meaning of L-rd.

    • Posted By: KMckenzieA @ 06/01/2009 5:51:57 PM

      The RELIGION of science needs to get its ethics together. Until then people will continue to look on it learily.

      Think about this. How come the greats of science have always been attacked and ridiculed by the mediocre of science?

      Another problem. If scientists are going to be the bearer of truth and all that is good then they may need to reflect. Pharmaceutical companies employ the the largest number of scientists in the world. Is there allegiance to science or to being right?

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 05/28/2009 6:24:39 PM

      It's all in the same. We accept myth as fact because we are trained to from birth. Goes for medical myths, social ones, metaphysical ones - all of 'em. My 5-year-old believes a semi truck can turn into a planet-saving sentient robot, but at least he doesn't believe there's a magical being in the sky, hating fags and damning sinners.

      • Posted By: HomesickForKyoto @ 05/28/2009 6:36:28 PM

        Just wait - after a few weeks of schooling he will come home telling you about evolution.

        • Posted By: McLovinB @ 05/28/2009 11:57:11 PM

          Hey. You betta watch your mouth with that EVOLUTION blasphemy. You in MERICA na.

        • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 05/28/2009 7:43:29 PM

          Not to worry - he'll probably go to kindergarten knowing more on the subject than the teacher. He's intellectually curious. He'll also be prepared if the teacher starts telling him it's "just a theory."

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 05/28/2009 6:51:27 PM

      This is a case for a blogger named Holy Roller who used to befoul these pages. Where are you, Holy? This is your favorite subject.

  • Posted By: Letter Zero @ 06/16/2009 10:06:57 AM

    I think that the reason people are clinging to their scientific beliefs is for the same reason others cling to their religious beliefs, because some people need religion in their lives to explain what they cannot. Just like I would never attack someone's religious beliefs, (I am an agnostic) I would never want to destroy the beliefs that they were brought up with and that they based their lives around. Some people cannot handle being logical and looking at the world as such. and I respect that.

  • Posted By: RMankovitz @ 06/06/2009 3:39:38 PM

    To begin with, I have trouble with the title of this article ??? ???When Myth Trumps Science.??? Science? This is all about medical myths, and medicine is not a science, it is an art. As a holistic health practitioner, scientist, and author of several books on illness prevention, I am painfully aware of the limitations of medicine. Unlike the hard sciences, which are based on rules, medicine is based on assumptions derived from studies, many of which are so sloppily conducted as to be useless in their conclusions, where correlation is often confused with causation. Worse, the authors in their book based their conclusions on what appears to be an indiscriminate review of many such prior studies. In the hard sciences, we call this approach GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).

    Here are some examples of medicine masquerading as science in their book of myths. 1. Do people need to drink eight glasses of water a day. The medical answer: no. The science answer: it depends on the person. Some need to drink more and some need to drink less to stay hydrated. A good indicator for some people is the color of their urine. Pale yellow seems to result in adequate hydration. 2. Does sugar cause hyperactivity in children? Medical answer: no. Science answer: for some children, it certainly does, and for others it does not. It all depends upon a variety of variables that are ignored by the medical community, are never controlled in their studies, and thus repeatedly lead to the wrong conclusions. 3. Is the MMR vaccine a causative factor in autism. Medical answer: no. Science answer: same as above - for some children, it certainly does, and for others it does not. It all depends upon a variety of variables that are ignored by the medical community, are never controlled in their studies, and thus repeatedly lead to the wrong conclusions. I could go on ad nauseum picking apart the nonsense arrogantly asserted by the medical community as fact, when in fact it is at best just myth. So, I applaud those of you who cling to your myths. You are likely to be at least as accurate as your doctor.

    Want to know who you can really trust in matters of health. Nature. You remember her, she evolved us and every other living thing on the planet, so the odds that she knows what she is doing seem quite high. Well, I spent years paying attention to her and studying other living species that have the good sense to follow her instructions. I learned a lot, and it looks nothing like what current conventional wisdom would have us believe. The results are summarized in my books, including ???The Wellness Project??? and ???The Original Diet ??? The Omnivore???s Solution.???

    Roy Mankovitz, Director
    www.MontecitoWellness.com

    • Posted By: wfmitchell @ 06/09/2009 9:37:41 AM

      • Posted By: wfmitchell @ 06/09/2009 9:50:21 AM

        Quack post from the head of a quack clinic.

      • Posted By: wfmitchell @ 06/09/2009 9:41:19 AM

        "medicine is not science it is an art" That would apply only to holistic medicine which is not as much art as it is crapola. You need to team with Suzanne Sommers and write a nonsense book.

  • Posted By: ZJudi @ 06/07/2009 4:29:08 PM

    From the knowing point of view it is very easy to call those believes myths, but what if you were told that they are true and never learned to doubt anything, because it could cause trouble. Still, since the age of puberty you should know it better. Puberty for so many teenagers is the time of questioning, especially authorities as their parents and teachers, but it is a pity that most of them lose this attitude in order to fit in. The best and most alarming example for it is given in the article by the reaction of Alcock???s students. I just hope that he clarified his little experiment and therefore made the students think about their attitude and probably change it. The revealed myths in the book may be neglectable because they do not cause any harm, but the fact that so many people just believe things without any hesitation should make us look for solutions.

  • Posted By: brenniewinters @ 06/05/2009 5:07:34 PM

    Not all medical lore is wrong. There are good doctors and bad ones. If you find a bad one, you may die sooner.

  • Posted By: brenniewinters @ 06/05/2009 5:06:04 PM

    Each person has different body chemistry and what I did not learn about health issues in Nursing school and practice over 36 years(some of these were wrong by the way), I learned from my parents who were exceptional people and my great aunt who is 104 years young.

  • Posted By: leliathomas @ 06/01/2009 9:41:08 PM

    This article could have been much better if it wasn't *assumed* that these two doctors are, in fact, right in their thinking. I would like to hear the opinions from some of their fellow practitioners who disagree with them.

    That aside, I personally don't believe some of these things are as cut and dry as they suggest. For instance, do you HAVE to have eight glasses of water a day? No, because you get water from the food you eat and from other liquid sources, like tea and soda. However, you do need a certain amount of water to stay well hydrated in a day, and the amount varies slightly by weight. AND tea and soda, though definitely sources of water, are sometimes harder on parts of your body to process. Water isn't a must, but it's the easiest thing on your body.

    The vitamin C debate is far from over, as far as I know. Some very large studies say there is absolutely no proof that vitamin C prevents or cures colds. Other studies say it may lessen a cold's symptoms by a day or two. There isn't consensus here. These two doctors could very easily find a group of studies that agree with their beliefs; however, that doesn't mean that the studying is over, and that everyone in opposition to them believes in a myth. The jury's out.

    I agree with HankM about the sugar. I've seen very few parents blame sugar when it wasn't an actual factor. Parents know their child's general attitude. If that attitude completely changes a la "The Exorcist" suddenly an hour after eating a big bowl of ice cream and a candy bar, you're pretty aware that sugar might have been a factor; the second and third time it happens, you know.

    There are some real medical myths out there. I personally believe that the vaccine-autism link is one of them, but I think even this is still being studied (someone correct me if I'm wrong). What bothers me about this, though, is that these doctors are attacking things that evoke the response of, as they say, "Who cares?" No, it doesn't have to be eight glasses of water a day, but most of your body's organs will thank you if it is water, not Coke. And who cares if people think vitamin C helps prevent or sooth colds? It may be a placebo effect, but if it makes someone feel better during the incurable common cold, why does it matter?

    There are dangerous myths out there, but if this sample of their book's topic matter is any indicator, they aren't studying them. They're just pulling the usual "I'm a doctor, so I know the truth" card. That worked over 50 years ago, when women were being handled like farm animals/property, and when Thorazine (Chlorpromazine) and electric shock therapy were seen as the cure-all for psychiatric problems. Those were some pretty dangerous myths that science once portrayed as fact, and THAT is just a small reason why society is (rightfully) skeptical of (fallible) doctors. Of course, it would do people well to be skeptical of all their sources, too.

  • Posted By: jfrenchman @ 05/29/2009 4:41:00 PM

    The reason people believe these disproven medical myths is similar to why people cling religious beliefs that, when viewed from a truly intellectual point of view, are completely implausible and mostly ridiculous. It's because few people want to face up to the notion that the basic tenets of life that they were taught by the people they love the most - parents, grandparents and clergy - are archaic, discredited or just flat-out wrong. People don't belong to a particular religion or church because they received some sort of divine revelation from the heavens that their way if The Way. They simply follow what their parents believe and drive into their heads as fact, even though they were educated at a time when we didn't know even less about things like science than we do now. So, if your Mom tells you to take Vitamin C for your cold, you believe her, you take it and expect to get well because she loves you. You then pass it on to your kids, and so on. In this age of science and technology, we as a society need to come to the realization that humans really know very little and we continue to evolve and learn about what really goes on on this complex planet.

  • Posted By: HankM @ 05/29/2009 2:39:31 PM

    Maybe people believe these "myths" because they make sense. There are many, many ways scientific studies can go awry both in design and execution, but once one has witnessed, for example, your child going bonkers after eating Halloween candy, well, sorry guys... I'm going with the myth on this one...

  • Posted By: kenfromillinois @ 05/28/2009 1:27:44 PM

    The reason people believe this crap is because the media hyped it. The media usually puts out a full court press whenever a researcher words the press summary in a way that baits the press. If we had intelligent journalists, this unproven junk science wouldn't be in the news. But where are you going to find an intelligent journalist?

    • Posted By: Fridge @ 05/29/2009 11:55:51 AM

      Journalism was once about objective research. Today the credo is, "If it bleeds, it leads". Journalists have to get peoples attention to sell papers or air-time. They are willing to market any kind of home-cooked tripe to do it.

    • Posted By: McLovinB @ 05/29/2009 12:17:29 AM

      Ken, if you watch closely, you will see that the boring studies are the best. The author of this book did not write a paper for colleagues to read. It is a book designed for the masses of people who do not know better. Of course the media will shill this. The book incites fear and curiosity among people.
      In fact, the media really want to report findings ahead of peer-reviewed journals. Researchers will often go to magazines before they report findings to colleagues. That effectively ends their career as a credible, ethical researcher, but who cares if your book sells a million copies?
      There are so many PhDs today who are lazy and incompetent that the risk is worth it to them. Frankly, their fastest train to the pot of gold is to state something that is obvious to their colleagues, thereby contributing nothing to their discipline. Alternatively, they can make something up and be admired by gullible people. Anyway, it all works out and everyone gets paid. Except for the public, really, but a new train comes along every week, so hop on the next one.

  • Posted By: TheLunatic @ 05/28/2009 2:47:27 PM

    The people that still think there is a link between vaccines and autism drive me crazy. I have friends who still think that flouride in water is a government plot to poison people. Unfortuntely, people believe these crazy things and then blame their doctors when they can't get an easy fix for thier health issues.

    • Posted By: Fridge @ 05/29/2009 11:48:54 AM

      I grew up in an area that flouridated its water. Lotsa people there had beautiful teeth. Might have had something to do also with the fact that people there also took kids to the dentist occasionally. Can't forget that. Moved to another area that didn't flouridate its water. Met people 25 years younger than myself who were already wearing dentures. Probably had something to do with the fact that most of them never visit the dentist. Oh, incidentally, in case you think flouride affects your brain, I met more morons in this area than in any other part of the planet that I had ever visited before, and I have lived in or visited plenty.

    • Posted By: meachom @ 05/28/2009 5:48:45 PM

      flouride is horrible for you. do some research on flouride poisening and certain countries banning certain toothpastes from being sold there due to flouride content

      • Posted By: McLovinB @ 05/28/2009 6:25:03 PM

        Last week it was aspartame.

  • Posted By: Fridge @ 05/28/2009 7:27:32 PM

    People need to believe in homeopathic remedies and mythology. This is because they have forgotten history. Forgotten the days when polio used to cripple people every summer, before the vaccine was invented. Forgotten the days when milksickness used to kill people, before Pasteur came along and discovered that boiling milk killed the bacteria that used to kill us. Forgotten the days when people used to die of typhoid and malaria, before we purified our water and sprayed for mosquitos. Oh, but I wanna drink unpasteurized milk. It's so pure and fresh-tasting! When my kid croaks, I'll sue somebody else and blame everybody but myself. Everybody thinks they're a medical expert, a psychologist, and a sociologist today, because they watch trash like Dr. Phil and Oprah on TV and think they know it all, even if they have not read a book in ten years.

    • Posted By: McLovinB @ 05/28/2009 11:51:23 PM

      Excellent. A pretty well underrrated movie came out a year or two ago called IDIOCRACY. It shows a future society where everything is so dumbed down because people are allowed to live their lives stupidly and have generations of increasingly stupid children.
      It jibes perfectly with certain organizations today which reward gullibility, lack of critical thinking, consumerism, laziness, aggression, etc.
      Some people on this forum will rail against researchers at universities, but fail to understand that football programs at US universities command huge budgets compared to, say, research into infectious diseases or global warming.

      I fervently wish that researchers could do their jobs better, and that fake PhDs would stop writing alarmist books, but I know that society, at least American society, is getting what it deserves.
      GO PATS!!!!

      • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 05/29/2009 10:51:11 AM

        Given how expertly Mike Judge exposed the Emperor's nudity, it's no surprise that the studio killed Idiocracy (the opening montage alone was a searing indictment of the direction in which this country is headed). The studio that killed it? Fox. Imagine that. The film just said too many things the purveyors of stupidity didn't want said. It's available for rent. Not a successful film on every level, but well worth watching.

        OW - MY BALLS!

  • Posted By: cart6719 @ 05/29/2009 7:19:43 AM

    People hold on to their own beliefs because science changes its mind so often it is impossible to follow the latest studies. If we follow the newest scientific dictate as to what food or supplement is good or bad, we would be switching our diets monthly. What's more, doctors follow these dictates as if they are law.

  • Posted By: EagleMan @ 05/28/2009 6:19:59 PM

    Autism was recently conclusively declared to have no links to vaccines.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/12/health/main4796512.shtml
    Though their studies may have predated this announcement.

    • Posted By: McLovinB @ 05/29/2009 12:06:33 AM

      I guess I can understand that you want to make the announcement accessible to people, but getting conclusive proof about a medical finding from CBS News is really more part of the problem than part of the solution.

      Assuming that CBS News actually has medical experts on staff, which it might, they might have a reasonable opinion about the study and its findings. But the mistake that people make is thinking that NEWS and FACT are things that go hand in hand. That is rarely true of science. The study has probably not been published yet. If it has been, then we wait for the results to be criticized by people who are very skeptical, and then rebutted and replicated if necessary.... and it is ALWAYS NECESSARY.

      Then we wait some more and see if the facts really do support the hypothesis that there is no connection. The most powerful tool of science, statistical inference, gives us a vague indication of what is probably true, but conclusive proof is a rare bird.

      Science is about questions, not answers. Faith, myth, religion is about answers, not questions. That is the idea that people keep getting backwards.

  • Posted By: MagicDragon @ 05/28/2009 9:00:01 PM

    You just keep going to AMA-establishment doctors! You'll find out the hard way!
    I haven't gone to a doctor or been in a hospital in fifty (50) years. I have no medical insurance!
    I'm sure this is why I'm fit and healthy at 70-years of age, and am cycling the world.
    Who at 70-years of age can cycle all over China on a heavily-loaded bicycle?
    If you can, join me!

    • Posted By: McLovinB @ 05/28/2009 11:37:11 PM

      Why go to a hospital? Everyone there is sick!
      Pedal on, gramps. More power to you if you can remain healthy and keep taking risks.
      Personally, I would settle for hospitals providing emergency care and letting people live normal unmedicated lives.

      In countries that do not provide a lot of medical care... guess what... not that much gets spent on medical care. That is food for thought. Probably supply creates its own demand.

  • Posted By: JHalcyon @ 05/28/2009 7:02:11 PM

    Hmmm. People believe in things their parents or authority figures told them, and see confirmation in events that aren't really confirmations. Forget about medical beliefs - they're mostly harmless. Can you say... "Religious beliefs"?

    Same cause, but much worse results for all of us. But people have an even harder time facing this one!

    • Posted By: gitnerdunn @ 05/28/2009 7:29:10 PM

      I am in partial agreement with you. The damage being caused by phony science and Al Gore's half truths about man caused global warming is a far greater danger than any medical myths. The same is true with many science organizations wanting public grant money. Could you tell me though, exactly what freedoms you are being denied due to others relegeous beliefs? What are you being forced to do because of them? fortunately for you ignorance and stupidity is not against the law..

      • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 05/28/2009 7:47:19 PM

        In many cases, people are forced to send their kids to schools that attempt to instill religion (and we all live in a society where private schools that freely instill religion are accredited). Churches participate in politics without paying taxes, harming everyone (including their own members). Gays are denied equality based on nothing but religiously based fears and prejudices.

        No one's harmed by someone else believing something irrational; the harm comes when they try to force it on others.

  • Posted By: ApostasyUSA @ 05/28/2009 3:08:45 PM

    When Myth Trumps Science


    Now that's a loaded tag line if I ever seen one!!!!

    What it should read:

    When humans are ignorant of scientific fact, willfully or not, they will accept myth in its place.

    Myth can't trump science. They are mutually exclusive.

    • Posted By: McLovinB @ 05/28/2009 6:29:05 PM

      This "trumping" is something that society decides.
      Rather than telling people that myth cannot trump science, what you should be asking yourself is

      What kind of society allows myth to trump science?
      The answer is all around you, whether you live in Taliban Afghanistan, New York city, Riyadh, or North Korea.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 05/28/2009 6:21:35 PM

      Myth shouldn't trump science, but in many contexts it does. Seeing the headline, I was expecting an article on "Intelligent Design."

  • Posted By: McLovinB @ 05/28/2009 6:24:22 PM

    I know the greatest medical myth of all....

    impartial peer review.

    Slavering media, pressuring grant organizations, publish or perish, embargo publishing systems, professional cronyism... they all work hand in glove to ensure that honest researchers, well, have no peers to review their work.

    This book is a shining example. It panders to fear. Some PhD from somewhere cannot make a solid contribution to science, and instead sinks to the role of a research assistant, combing the literature (probably just reading the abstracts, really) and personally giving a thumbs up or thumbs down to questions that are apparently interesting and controversial enough to justify several "good" studies each. The book is a disgrace, but certainly good enough to land the author an interview by a Cuomo kid. Rather than making people's decisions for them, why not give them an accessible bibliography of NIH sponsored studies? Oh. PubMed already does that, and Google Scholar, and several other free resources.

    Or why not sell a book giving all the answers for 19.95? If you are a slightly unethical PhD or MD living in a land where a sucker is born every minute, the answer is obvious. You can just claim that your own opinions are more important than any of the researchers who actually do the work, and voila.... why worry about peer review? A buck is a buck.

  • Posted By: MichaelX @ 05/28/2009 4:13:55 PM

    From myth debunking to a cure for autism? It's not a disease, it's a caused malady.
    Okay, here's how: 1}Do not {you, or your nanny} push your kid around on busy streets in a stroller.
    2} Do not simply ignore cries and tantrums. Deal with it.
    3} Do not placate with "goodies" unless behavior is earned them.
    There, the Oracle has answered all that needs to be.

    • Posted By: Striped Cat @ 05/28/2009 6:03:27 PM

      Do not push a child around on a busy city street is prevention for autism? I hope you are joking! Millions of people have grown up in cities for hundreds of years and don't have autism. The increase in autism began long after the development of cities. This is the silliest thing I have heard in a long time.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 05/28/2009 4:37:45 PM

      Hey, Oracle, they been looking for you at Delphi for centuries now. Report back immediately.

  • Posted By: choltrn @ 05/28/2009 5:20:51 PM

    Sigh. No, vitamin C will not "cure" a cold. About a week will. But, vitamin C and other antioxidants may very well PREVENT the cold, but these people aren't going to want to propagate that myth And no matter what is behind autism, you can all keep your damn vaccines.

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