The Sins of the Fathers

Raising kids in a same-sex union.

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  • Posted By: FSGinger @ 07/04/2009 2:20:33 PM

    Catholic Charities did not have to stop providing adoption services! Other religiously-affiliated and anti-same-sex-couple agencies are still operating there! Catholic Charities was not going to be allowed to be a STATE adoption institution, receiving the tax dollars of same-sex married couples while denying them services. They chose to shut down instead of going without the privilege of being a state adoption institution. I wish people would stop falling for the anti-gay media spin on this matter! No religious group will be forced to support same-sex couplings as a religious institution, but if they want our tax dollars and state endorsement, they will have to humble themselves and make hard choices.

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/22/2009 10:33:00 AM

    There are so many complications, distresses and set backs which an idividual inevitably must confront if she or he is lesbian or gay in our traditionally christian society. The alienation of famliy and friends, the look of scorn and contempt by strangers, discrimination and inequality in absolutely every sphere of society can be extremely overwhelming.

    It is extremely sad that our society would seek to dictate whom an individual should choose to love.

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/19/2009 12:51:56 PM

    Bojack 27,

    I hope that you will learn how to love the "unlovely." Have a great weekend. One Love.

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/19/2009 12:49:42 PM

    I agree with you Jeffery. Lide is way to short!

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/19/2009 12:48:34 PM

    Bojack27,
    Thanks for responding. I understand that religious affiliation comes with its own religious codes. But that's no excuse not to love.

  • Posted By: hlowe2 @ 06/17/2009 6:29:01 PM

    so by your standards, no one can ever be called a bigot. Yes, you ARE a bigot. Why? You want to deny people their rights and hate not because of the content of their character, but who they are attracted to. Shut up.

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 06/18/2009 10:21:11 AM

      Are you talking to me? People aren???t denied rights when they are told that they have to stay in the guidelines of what marriage has been define as between one man and one woman for centuries. Now you want to call people bigots because they don???t see things differently than what has been normally practice and acceptable behavior for centuries. GET REAL. Oh by the way to reward perverted behavior as being normal is hatred in itself. It is disrespectful to say that a mother can be a Man and a father can be a Woman. Neither can a woman be a Husband nor a man be a Wife.

      • Posted By: Uday Salizar @ 06/19/2009 12:38:44 PM

        "Are you talking to me? People aren???t denied rights when they are told that they have to stay in the guidelines of what marriage has been define as between one man and one woman for centuries."

        Guidelines changed in 1967. Not centuries.

  • Posted By: jeffrey1234 @ 06/18/2009 11:58:07 PM

    I am a gay father raising a 5 year old in my Jewish faith (reform branch). I am so glad my faith and my child are able to see the beauty of Judaism, my faith, and all it has to offer. Life is way, way too short to be arguing over the gay thing. There are thousands of more important issues to be arguing over and then trying to find find common answers to.

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 06/19/2009 11:02:39 AM

      From my understanding of your reformed Judaism or Progressive Judaism you get to pick and choose which practices that you want to adhere to! So I guess Leviticus Chapter 18 has been thrown out of what you adhere too and therefore you have establish or should I say embrace something that goes totally against true Judaism.

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/18/2009 11:54:56 AM

    You raise a rather compelling arguement for the Christian position on Homosexuality and It is not my desire to attempt to despute this. Every religion has its own dogmas and doctrines. My interest lies in the way individuals who do not live up to christian teachings are regarded by " believers". I do not buy your arguement that the Good Book endorses intolerance or prejudice. I promise not to use the bigotry again in our discussion.

    I thought that the foundation of the Christian religion, the greatest commandment was Love. You have been mandated to love, not to condone WHAT YOU REGARD AS "wrong doing" but to love. So, why would you not love me because I do not live up to yours ideals or that of your church.. Do you live up to all the ideals of the Good Book? There is none perfect!

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 06/18/2009 3:51:39 PM

      Barisha,

      You are right in saying that none is perfect and all have sin and fallen short of the glory of God. But if you read those scriptures carefully it doesn't endorses intolerance or prejudice. It demands perfection for all, God has placed this demand on everyone to be perfect because He is perfect. In 1 Corinthians 6:9 it list a whole group of imperfections that will not be tolerated by God and one of them happen to be homosexuality. But most forget about the others such as the following:

      1Cor.6
      [9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
      [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
      [11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

      So if you look above it is Inclusive with the sort of lifestyles that have been coverted through Christ that are now in a Exclusive place. Meaning that those who do the will of God, keeping his commandments and living the lifestyle that is pleasing to Him are going to heaven. As it says in scripture,

      Acts.17
      [30] And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

      The Greatest commandment isn't Love of others but Love of God! If you or I aren't loving God then we cannot truly love others. We Christians have also be commanded to speak the word at all times whether one agrees with it or not. We cannot compromise the Word of God. I don't like the things people do but I do love them enough to tell them the truth and even pray for those who are bound by disbelief. Love isn't passive but active in telling one to repent and get right with God is the commision of the saints of God. You are right there is none perfect and God uses those who are imperfect to reach a imperfect world and bring them to repentance. Don't kill the messenger jsut because you don't like the message, but examine the message to see what it is saying is true or not.

      Matt.22
      [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
      [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
      [38] This is the first and great commandment.

      2Tim.4
      [1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
      [2] Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
      [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
      [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

  • Posted By: cayoung @ 06/18/2009 2:19:56 PM

    This is genuinely difficult for both sides.

    One has a right to their own moral views and a collective has this same right. This is true for everyone including gays and, in this case, Christians. However, there are some things that are deemed immoral but not unlawful - like adultery (at least in the US) - the thing is happening with homosexuality for some localities and groups anyway.

    The reality of incompatible lifestyles and POV's is unavoidable - so is the reality of organizational standards. Most organizations have standards for membership - the church is no different. This doesn't imply a lack of love for those who don't qualify or wish not to comply with the standards. So I mean to suggest that the law should protect all persons, including gays, but should not dictate to others what their views ought to be. The issue of homosexuality and the church is less the desire (many can do nothing about what they desire) but rather the lifestyle - this is a choice.

    Love is not agreeing on all points - it is showing respect and humility (among other things) when one disagrees.

  • Posted By: spook76 @ 06/18/2009 1:03:08 PM

    No matter what faith a person or organization practices, to put that faith BEFORE the welfare of a child doesn't say much for that faith to begin with.

  • Posted By: JeremiahA @ 06/18/2009 12:29:58 PM

    We have all made mistakes. We have all committed sin. The question isn't whether we are perfect or not. The question is whether we struggle or celebrate sin. I believe a person with a homosexual preference can be said to be following Christianity if he or she is struggling to overcome the sin of homosexuality instead of celebrating it. If a man celebrates his acts of adultery instead of trying to repent and reconcile himself with God and his wife, then I would say he is not a true follower of Christ.

    So you may not like the Bible. You may not want to follow God's teachings and keep your moral autonomy. However, the Bible is undeniable in its condemnation of sexual acts that go against the natural order of the binding together of one man with one woman.

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/18/2009 11:59:03 AM

    I am longing to meet a Christian who loves unconditionally. A Christian who imitates Christ. The man who stood up for the woman caught in adultry. The one who that day that all are sinners. Can you really throw stones at me?

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/18/2009 10:23:11 AM

    It is probably true that homosexuality is incompatible with the teaching of Christianity, but at the same time, this does not excuse the presence of bigotry in the hearts of christians towards gays and lesbians. We say that the greatest commandments is love and as a consequence we are expected to in love inspite of the differences which clearly exist in the world. Gays are people. We are called to love people.

    At the same time, in a Democracy individuals must be free to attend whatever church they decide inspite of their sexual orientation. I thought that the church was a place for " siinners" so if Gays are sinners. Let them in.

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 06/18/2009 11:17:22 AM

      We know that it is true that homosexuality is incompatible with the teaching of Christianity. As for the bigotry (this word is overused in the homosexual community) which could indicate many different meanings such as ??? prejudice, racism, intolerance, bias, narrow-mindedness, and chauvinism. Now let us break down each of these words and clarify the Christian stance (1) prejudice is not in the Christians mindset when we see the homosexual community destroying the very fabric of marriage and trying to force their mindset on others through legislation and attacking those of different beliefs. We simply have sufficient knowledge of their agenda and choose not to call evil good and good evil. (2) racism cannot ever be claimed by the homosexual community since homosexuality is not a race but homosexuality is within all races (3) intolerance, so much is made of this word and it is the mindset of homosexuals that we Christians should tolerate homosexuality. Show us one scripture in the bible that tells us we should accept this behavior. Most homosexuals think that when you tell them the truth of God???s word that you are not loving towards them. You even said that homosexuality is incompatible with the teaching of Christianity in the beginning of your post so you acknowledge what the bible says in Romans 8:7 enmity is deep mutual hatred. Christians shouldn???t accept/tolerate teachings contrary to the word of God on sexuality Revelation 2:20 teaches this. (4) bias towards those who say that their behavior is normal when it is not is not bias at all. We Christians don???t show favoritism over those who rape children, commit incest, abortion or fornication. All of these practices are spoken out against by doctrine in Leviticus 18:1-30 1 Corinthians 6:9 and in Revelation 22:15 (5) being narrow-mindedness is to not think like the world for Christians scriptures Matthew 7:13 (6) chauvinism- meaning to be unreasoning is far from the truth of Christians we can only reason with those who aren???t afraid of the truth and will admit when they are wrong.

      Homosexuals can attend whatever service they wish to attend, but they don???t have a right to dictate what doctrine is being preached in the pulpit. Or to ascribe to it as Hate Doctrine and try to silence the voices of those who disagree with them on this subject. So don???t try to claim Democracy and freedom on one hand then take it away from Christians in your next breath.

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/18/2009 10:36:23 AM

    It is evident that an idividual does not have to approve of a behaviour which she or he considers unacceptable. But there must still be tolerence towards others. In reality we all have our own issues, addictions and stuggles. When we judge others, we condemn ourselves.

  • Posted By: rg807 @ 06/17/2009 8:32:29 PM

    Always children from another country...

  • Posted By: Against-Ignorance @ 06/17/2009 4:03:44 PM

    Any 'Christian' organization that refuses to continue its good works and aid to others simply because it cannot enforce bigotry has nothing to do with Jesus.

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 06/17/2009 5:02:01 PM

      You are wrong! Any Christian agency that promotes immorality has nothing to do with Jesus. I like how you people try to call others bigots if they don't see things your way....if that is not being a bigot then what is? LOL

    • Posted By: Flanders @ 06/17/2009 4:54:14 PM

      I agree with your post, but see the issue as a little more complicated than that.

  • Posted By: bojack27 @ 06/17/2009 12:00:59 PM

    Not only do homosexuals have to answer for their sins but the sins their children will commit by accepting their lifestyle as being normal. I guess that is why this article is named "The Sins of the Fathers" endorsing abominable behavior as being normal is bad enough but now involving children in the practice is utterly wicked.

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/14/2009 12:49:48 PM

    First of all, since Newsweek made changes to the site I am experiencing difficulties finding Lisa Miller's pieces.

    This article rightly discusses the challenges one would face as a christian homosexual. The reality is that the teaching of christianity is not compatible with this lifestyle choice. To choose or to be born gay depending on which is politically correct is inevitably a decision to be alienated from the christian society to a significant extent. I think that this union of gays are the church becomes every more complicated when the couple marry and would like to raise their children as Christians.

    I cannot say that I have an answer to this predicament. It will take a complete change in not only in theological ideologies which shape church laws, but the attitudes of Church members toward gays and lesbians. I guess that it is up to the individual to either denounce his religion or sexual orientation, or strive as the gentlemen mentioned above to unite both, and live with the challenges.

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/17/2009 11:02:22 AM

    I am not quite sure why this article is named "The sins of the Fathers". Is it because the author is endorsing the christian idea that the lifestyle choice in question is a sinful one? As the same time, I appreciate the effort which Lisa Miller makes to address issues affecting those who are usually scorned and castigated in our society. Keep writing!

    Life and love comes with some many complexities and when one has to

  • Posted By: Flexsf @ 06/11/2009 6:55:38 PM

    I'm not religious, but one thing about Catholicism is certain: they have a price for everything!

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