Face to Face

She's emotional. He's having a bad day.

By Sharon Begley | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Jun 25, 2009

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  • Posted By: pepekaka @ 07/01/2009 9:00:37 PM

    Calm down sugar, this is just an argument on a very relevent issue in todays world. the best way to discuss it is as civily as possible.

    The overpopulation you refer to is only taking place in the third world, where traiditional gender roles still dominate due to the fact that American style civil rights and feminist movements have not yet bestwoed upon women equality in the labor force. Also, these places tend to have large rural populations that actually require large families for sustainance. Even urban poor see having many chilidren as a safety net in their old age since social services are non-existent.

    First world countries, particularly America and western Europe are the ones with the social/population problem. Our birthrates fell below 2.1 during the late 1990's and continue to fall. We are the ones with shifting gender dynamics which turn many millenia of human behavior on its head. We are the ones whose society promotes a cult of individualism that preaches "me, me, me first" without thinking of the consequences of the behavior we freely (according to law) engage in. I wasn't referring to Namibia or Paraguay and I thought that might be obvious, excuse me for not being specific.

    All women are cut out to be mothers unless there is a biological problem such as infertility or a legitimate psychological issue such as bipolar disorder and the like -- this discounts a statistically insignificant percentage of women from giving birth. Im afraid you are talking about women not being "ready" either financially or emotionally and that is subjective and relative. Ultimately, there IS a biological clock and it ticks steadily whether you can afford the right private school or not.

    If you call being enlightened believing that starting a family equates to bondage than I am truly sorry for you. You may be at that age (32-40) and single, and if you are I can see how this may be a stressful subject. But try to think about it rationally and stop emoting. Childbirth -- regardless of all the worlds ill's, regardless of all the pollution we produce, etc -- is still our (and by our I mean women's) responsibility.

    But go frollick in your individual freedoms you empowered, privileged, enlightened, American woman. After all it IS your right. And that is all that matters to you.

    (excuse me if this comment shows up multiple times, my browser is giving me difficulties).

    • Posted By: adotson102 @ 08/08/2009 2:25:02 AM

      Human beings want different things in life and it's as simple as that. With all due respect, hurling a guilt complex at people for what is rightfully theirs or disparaging them from personal goals is extremely patronizing. Attempting to scorn and ridicule independent thought, when independent thought basically drives you, I and everyone else, is foolish. Of course, you can continue to speak for other people, pretending as if individuals are far and few between. But, I think a lot of people see through that unsophisticated argument.

  • Posted By: pepekaka @ 06/26/2009 5:41:13 PM

    We are not social constructs as contemporary (and politically aware) sociologists would have you believe. The physiological composition of the male and female has not yet changed (note the "yet"), femininity is still defined largely by emotional openness, desire to nurture and a more social/"people-centric" attitude. Whether women are becoming more and more masculine via financial independance in the post-feminism and civil rights era is a topic that may actually be up for debate.

    I dont see why women would want to eschew female gender roles and feminine qualities. There is no power like that of our mothers. But if women want masculine power within society then be my guest. But personally, I think they will soon see that they are in way over their heads.

    • Posted By: CaroJ @ 06/27/2009 12:45:04 PM

      I am a woman who is financially independent and perfectly capable of running my own life. I have a good life and a successful career.
      If you want to call this "masculine Power," I'm sure I can't change your mind. But I assure you that I am in no way "over my head."
      It's outdated myths like the ones you express that keep women the oppressed class. This is just sexism, plain and isimple, and should be no more acceptable than racism.

      • Posted By: pepekaka @ 06/27/2009 9:06:47 PM

        Thats nice. But do you have any children, or a loving husband? How do you see your life looking when you are 70 years old? Are you truly (really ask yourself this) fullfilled?

        Its not all about the career and financial independence as all too many women are starting to find out.

        • Posted By: CaroJ @ 06/28/2009 11:29:25 AM

          You seem to think that career and financial independence cannot exist within a good marriage. I am not currently married but I know many women who have successful careers AND successful marriages. I pity the women who don't look out for their financial independence. Most marriages these days don't last and women better be prepared to look out for themselves. That's just reality.

          • Posted By: CaroJ @ 06/28/2009 11:34:30 AM

            Oh, and by the way, why are you asking me if I am truly fulfilled. (Yes, I am happy.)
            IWhy do you think a woman with a career can't be just as happy as a man with a career, with or without a marriage?

            The days when women couldn't do anything without their husband's permission are long gone, thank goodness. We can get married, have children, AND have a great career. Or we can forgo one or more of these. The choice is going to be different for each individual. It has nothing to do with gender.

            • Posted By: pepekaka @ 06/30/2009 7:31:45 AM

              It is woman's responsibility to have children. If women decide to forgo this responsibility in the name of gender equality, we will be facing a very dystopian future.

              • Posted By: CaroJ @ 06/30/2009 7:08:21 PM

                A woman's responsibility????? Are you kidding me?

                You are one very messed up dude.

                • Posted By: pepekaka @ 07/01/2009 8:37:45 AM

                  Hard to believe we'd arrive at a day when stating the obvious would illicit such a response. Yes it is a woman's responsibility to have kids. There are only two genders and men don't give birth.

                  While I understand that we all have the freedom to do as we please, also know there are consequences for our actions. As humans our most basic responsibilities, alas, our most basic instincts, are to survive and to reproduce. That goes for any form of life as well. While we have "progressed" far as a species, to pretend as though we have evolved past this is juvenile.

                  Women can but should not neglect their responsibility to contribute to the gene pool and the human population. It is not fair or just for you to merely adopt babies from Africa so as to maintain your career or figure. That is not to say I encourage having 8 children. We no longer live on farms where such a massive family was needed. But 2.1 are required to merely maintain a population.

                  No, I am not "messed up." I just think you are deluding yourself into thinking that you are so civilized that the most basic rules of life no longer apply. Its time to get over ourselves before we do some serious damage.

                  • Posted By: CaroJ @ 07/01/2009 2:05:08 PM

                    If you don't see how messed up your views are, there is no hope for you.

                    Many women are not cut out to be mothers. Forcing them to give birth does a great disservice to them and any children they ultimately are forced to bear.

                    Many of the world's most pressing problems are caused by OVERpopulation, not underpopulation. You must be living under a rock (or more likely, in a cave) if you don't know that.

                    I will not waste my time returning here to read anymore of your antiquated, inflammatory comments. Crawl back into your cave and leave the enlightened amongt us to live our lives freely.
                    Hope no one forces YOU into a life of bondage based on your genetalia.

                    • Posted By: pepekaka @ 07/01/2009 8:58:52 PM

                      Calm down, this is just an argument on a very relevent issue in todays world. the best way to discuss it is as civily as possible.

                      The overpopulation you refer to is only taking place in the third world, where traiditional gender roles still dominate due to the fact that American style civil rights and feminist movements have not yet bestwoed upon women equality in the labor force. Also, these places tend to have large rural populations that actually require large families for sustainance. Even urban poor see having many chilidren as a safety net in their old age since social services are non-existent.

                      First world countries, particularly America and western Europe are the ones with the social/population problem. Our birthrates fell below 2.1 during the late 1990's and continue to fall. We are the ones with shifting gender dynamics which turn many millenia of human behavior on its head. We are the ones whose society promotes a cult of individualism that preaches "me, me, me first" without thinking of the consequences of the behavior we freely (according to law) engage in. I wasn't referring to Namibia or Paraguay and I thought that might be obvious, excuse me for not being specific.

                      All women are cut out to be mothers unless there is a biological problem such as infertility or a legitimate psychological issue such as bipolar disorder and the like -- this discounts a statistically insignificant percentage of women from giving birth. Im afraid you are talking about women not being "ready" either financially or emotionally and that is subjective and relative. Ultimately, there IS a biological clock and it ticks steadily whether you can afford the right private school or not.

                      If you call being enlightened believing that starting a family equates to bondage than I am truly sorry for you. You may be at that age (32-40) and single, and if you are I can see how this may be a stressful subject. But try to think about it rationally and stop emoting. Childbirth -- regardless of all the worlds ill's, regardless of all the pollution we produce, etc -- is still our (and by our I mean women's) responsibility.

                      But go frollick in your individual freedoms you empowered, privileged, enlightened, American woman. After all it IS your right. And that is all that matters to you.

                    • Posted By: pepekaka @ 07/01/2009 8:56:27 PM

    • Posted By: CaroJ @ 06/27/2009 12:37:57 PM

      am a woman but want the same freedom to be financially independent (which I am), make my own decisions (I do), and in general run my own life. If you see that as wanting masculine power, your viewpoint is warped.
      BTW, I have a good life and career. I am in no way "over my head."

      • Posted By: CaroJ @ 06/27/2009 12:46:43 PM

        Excuse the double post. I didn't think the first one was going to go through.

  • Posted By: Barisha @ 06/25/2009 12:14:21 PM

    Traditonal gender stereotypes and expectations would want us to accept the spurious idea what women are emotional hence weak.

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