Monkey Trial

Amanda Knox is a 22-year-old on trial for murder in Italy. Her defense—and her family—isn't helping.

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  • Posted By: AbigailD @ 10/19/2009 4:28:14 PM

    Thank goodness someone NOT influenced by Knox's family finally wrote an article about this case. I lived in Italy during the time of the murder and since returning home to the states I have been outraged at the bias media coverage thus far.
    Applause to you Ms. Nadeau for bringing up such great points about the weak defense.

  • Posted By: dannorder @ 10/10/2009 5:26:22 PM

    I'm not sure why some people try to claim that pointing out the flaws in news coverage (this Newsweek reporter is obviously extremely biased and can't get her facts straight) and flaws in the prosecution is somehow attacking Meredith Kercher's family in any way. It's the "woe is me, won't anyone think of the victim?" card. There are a lot of victims here: Kercher, Knox, Sollecito, all of their families and a basic regard for the truth.

  • Posted By: bellisima19 @ 10/09/2009 4:59:58 PM

    Ms. Nadeau continues to take a serious trial and turn it into tabliod.l. 1.l Miagini has a bone to pick and has chosen once again to build a case on conspiracy. Like the Nadesco trial he linked a probable overdose or perhaps suicide drowning to the Red Rose Cult surrounding the Monster of Florence Case. 2. Kershcer was most likely drugged and raped by Rudy, who then literally took a ***. For good measure he threw in the race card and then split to Germany. They ONLY people who have built this macabre sexual theory are the very ones who furnished another sexual conspiracy: the cabarnari and Mr. Miagini.

  • Posted By: JL1956 @ 08/03/2009 11:03:44 AM

    Has everyone except Meredith's family lost sight of the fact that we are talking about the loss of a young girl's life? While I realize the disdain the Knox family has for the Italian judicial system, surely they can restrain themselves from further mockery for the sake of not only their daughter/sister, but yes even for the sake of decorum itself. This is in fact, not a circus, it is a courtroom. Perhaps when it resumes your family will conduct itself accordingly. May I also suggest that until such time, that while you tour the sights of Italy, you do so with restraint, in dress, word, and deed. It can only bode well for Amanda and that is your goal n'est pas?

  • Posted By: Crimson_H @ 08/01/2009 2:52:08 AM

    The comments by "nick614" are not only mindlessly repetitive, they're indicative of a closed mind. Indeed, it appears that "nick614" is either another 'wilfully-blind-to-the-evidence' relative of Amanda Knox, or is yet another 'blogger-for-hire' employed by Amanda's expensive Seattle PR team (a/k/a "The Friends of Amanda Knox" Campaign). OJ Simpson didn't buy this much spin!

  • Posted By: jackhendrix34 @ 07/29/2009 8:35:19 PM

    This is to good to be true. I hope they give her the death penalty. To bad she can't die the way her roommate died.

    • Posted By: nick614 @ 07/31/2009 3:10:49 PM

      Are you for real jackhendrix? Are you familiar at all with this trial? If you were you'd understand that the prosecution has no evidence whatsover and their system of justice is a joke. Also, I think that there is some anti-American sentiment involved. This girl has been held for a couple of years based on nothing concrete. Have you considered the possibility that she may very well be innocent? What if she was your kid?

    • Posted By: nick614 @ 07/31/2009 2:14:23 PM

      Are you for real jackhenry? Are you familiar at all with this trial? If you were you'd understand that the prosecution has no evidence whatsover and their system of justice is a joke. Also, I think that there is some anti-American sentiment involved. This girl has been held for a couple of years based on nothing concrete. Have you considered the possibility that she very well may be innocent? What if she was your kid?

    • Posted By: nick614 @ 07/31/2009 2:08:13 PM

  • Posted By: nick614 @ 07/31/2009 1:58:40 PM

    It seems to me that Italy (and this author) are overly preoccupied with everything but the actual facts of the case that prove or disprove guilt. Quit worrying about what people are wearing in court, how they are acting and photo shoots. Ummm, there's actually a trial taking place!

  • Posted By: Crimson_H @ 07/30/2009 1:14:12 AM

    Bremner went to Puget Sound school of law which might explain why she can't grasp a simple concept: there were THREE (3) ATTACKERS here (Amanda, her knife-collecting boyfriend of 6 days, & Rudy Guede - a pal of her housemates), and there was, not surprisingly, MORE THAN ONE KNIFE.

    The 'double DNA knife' found tucked away in the apartment of Amanda's boyfriend IS, according to expert testimony given at trial, compatible with many of the victim's wounds. In light of the 'law of accessory,' what does it matter that this knife was not the most lethal of the KNIVES (2 or more) that were used on poor Meredith that night. Indeed, what does it matter what Amanda's Seattle lawyer-for-hire thinks?

    (After all, her moral judgment is deficient enough to allow her to justify acting as a post-conviction PR representative for child rapist Mary Kay Letourneau.)

    Considering the evidence submitted at trial (which, in addition to the damning DNA evidence implicating Amanda & her boyfriend, includes Amanda's intentional accusation of an innocent black man in order to exculpate herself), I certainly would never allow my daughter to room with Amanda Knox. Honestly, would YOU?

  • Posted By: Crimson_H @ 07/28/2009 10:46:48 PM

    The DNA of a dead girl is on the blade of a knife found hidden away in Sollecito's apartment. The knife was NOT part of the cutlery the girls shared at the cottage/ crime scene. The dead girl had NEVER been to Sollecito's apartment. When asked to explain this "coincidence," Sollecito (a COLLECTOR of knives) LIED to the police - he said he pricked the dead girl while cooking dinner for her. He has since recanted this lie. If you are fool enough to think that this fact pattern amounts to a "railroad job," then there's no hope for you - I wonder if you'd be so silly if the dead girl were YOUR daughter...

    • Posted By: jessicabran @ 07/29/2009 1:16:31 PM

      "In what is surely a well-rehearsed demonstration by now, Bremner goes on to address the case against Knox, point by point. The prosecution, she says, is most likely relying on a knife found at the house of Knox's then boyfriend and fellow accused Rafaelle Sollecito. That knife has Knox's DNA on the handle and what some forensic scientists say is Kercher's DNA on the tip. But Bremner dismisses the idea that it is the knife that killed Kercher: "They never found the murder weapon." Bremner claims that a bloody print on the bed linens conveys the shape of the actual murder weapon and that the knife in question "doesn't match an outline of the knife on the bed." Additionally, Bremner says, expert testimony has already indicated that at least two of the wounds on Kercher's neck couldn't have been made by that particular blade. That aside, she points out, it's not surprising that Knox's DNA would be on its handle; she prepared dinner with Sollecito in his apartment.

      As to whether the DNA on the tip belongs to Kercher, experts disagree. Patrizia Stefanoni, a police forensics expert who testified in the pretrial hearing in May, suggested that it was Kercher's DNA on the tip of the knife ??? and that the way the genetic material was positioned indicated the knife had probably been used to puncture the skin. But other experts who have analyzed the DNA evidence for the defense suggest that poor sample quality and possible contamination undermine the accuracy of these results." -Time magazine, and countless other articles pressing the same points

      Maybe you should read more than one article (and preferably not just one heavily influenced by the Italian prosecutors) before making such a "silly," bold statement. This trial is being tried 90% on sheer circumstantial evidence, and that doesn't sit well with me.

  • Posted By: sandlily @ 07/25/2009 1:14:02 PM

    This is a bizarre and insane situation. She is being railroaded. This trial is worthy of a third world banana republic with an oppressive dictatorship.

  • Posted By: TMininger @ 07/17/2009 10:28:10 AM

    The police botched the meaning of a phone call between Knox and her boss from the night of the murder. For that, they put two young people through an all night anti-mafia style interrogation, full of police lies, and got coerced "confusions", which Knox retracted after getting some sleep.

    The prosecutor doesn't dare produce the audiotapes of that night.

    When the forensic evidence finally came in and pointed to one man, Rudy Guede, instead of acting like a man and admitting his mistake, the prosecutor decided to sacrifice the two instead of looking like an idiot.

    Then the police had to go back and "find" evidence against Knox and Sollecito. The result is a railroad job.

    Meredith's English roommates fled after the murder. Knox stayed, despite her German relatives pressuring her to come to them. This is the thanks she got for trying to help.

    • Posted By: Ferferksake @ 07/18/2009 7:42:02 AM

      "Meredith's English roommates fled after the murder. Knox stayed, despite her German relatives pressuring her to come to them. This is the thanks she got for trying to help."

      Erm, ok, picture this;
      Parents, family & friends of all the housemates, "Come home quick, there's a murderer on the loose, it's not safe"
      English girls, "You're right, I'm really frightened and so upset. I can't stay here, I'll be on the next flight home"
      Knox "Nah, don't be silly, Raffael won't hurt me and why would I kill myself? (oops!)"

      • Posted By: adelaclaire7 @ 07/18/2009 10:53:11 PM

        Were Amanda's other roommates even British? I'm pretty sure they were both Italian and local.

  • Posted By: Seattle reader @ 07/18/2009 5:38:38 PM

    Posted By: Crimson_H @ 07/18/2009 5:03:30 PM

    "Regardless of the role "intuition" played in the initial collection of the knife, subsequent DNA testing proved the knife was not only important evidence, but damning evidence."

    It's not the intuition that's the main problem (although it certainly is a big problem). It's the fact that only one knife was taken from a drawer full of knives. If all of the knives had been tested, as they should have, some of the rest of them could have held the DNA of the victim or of any number of people. Scientifically, that would rule out that THE knife that was chosen was suspicious.

    "Further, Judge Micheli's 'sentencing ratio' on Amanda's co-accused, Rudy Guede, is not "speculative" - it is a verdict based on findings of fact."

    It still doesn't mention cell towers.

    " (This was a trial by judge rather than by jury and, as such, Judge Micheli was THE trier of fact)".

    Facts aren't tried; facts are facts. Charges are tried, but they don't change facts.

    "On the subject of legal facts, when I am listing evidence that (according to US news sources) has been submitted at trial by the prosecution, it is self-evident that I am not representing this evidence as fact because the trial is still in progress. Indeed, closing arguments will not be heard until this fall."

    It is not self-evident in the least that you are presenting evidence when you state your ideas about cell towers and knives without explaining that these are your opinions or the prosecution's evidence.


  • Posted By: Seattle reader @ 07/18/2009 4:06:13 PM

    Posted By: Crimson_H @ 07/18/2009 6:20:57 AM

    "I take it you have not read Judge Micheli's sentencing report on Amanda's co-accused, Rudy Guede. I note also that you elided the last portion of my comment in respect of the damning DNA evidence against Amanda. It appears that you are not in a position to accuse me of ignorance about the facts of this case."

    I have read Judge Micheli's speculative report. It doesn't say anything about cell phone towers, which is the subject I wanted to discuss. If you want me to respond to the rest of your post, I will be happy to. You wrote:

    "Unfortunately for them, however, they brought one of the knives they used with them and didn't scrub it down with enough bleach to remove all of Meredith's DNA from the blade. Busted."

    My primary objection is that, as in the case of your comments about the cell phone towers, you present your opinion as if it were fact, when it is not. The question of the kitchen knife being the murder weapon has been disputed in court by defense experts who say it is not the right size to fit the cuts that were made in the victim's neck.

    Here is the absurd truth about the kitchen knife:

    "Armando Finzi, an assistant in the Perugia police department's organized crimes unit, first discovered the knife in Sollecito's kitchen drawer....He opened the drawer and saw "very shiny and clean" knife lying on top of the silverware tray.

    "It was the first knife I saw," he said. When pressed on cross-examination, said his "investigative intuition" led him to believe it was the murder weapon because it was compatible with the wound as it had been described to him....There were smaller and bigger knives in the drawer, but no others were taken into evidence from the kitchen, he said...."

    www.seattlepi.com/local/401876_Knoxvogt0
    1.html

    If you know anyone who works in the sciences, ask them why this was not an acceptable way to collect evidence.

    • Posted By: Crimson_H @ 07/18/2009 5:03:30 PM

      Regardless of the role "intuition" played in the initial collection of the knife, subsequent DNA testing proved the knife was not only important evidence, but damning evidence. Further, Judge Micheli's 'sentencing ratio' on Amanda's co-accused, Rudy Guede, is not "speculative" - it is a verdict based on findings of fact. (This was a trial by judge rather than by jury and, as such, Judge Micheli was THE trier of fact).

      On the subject of legal facts, when I am listing evidence that (according to US news sources) has been submitted at trial by the prosecution, it is self-evident that I am not representing this evidence as fact because the trial is still in progress. Indeed, closing arguments will not be heard until this fall.

      Surely you are aware that neither you, nor I are in a position to determine the legal facts of this case - that job belongs solely to the jurors in Amanda's trial, and they have yet to be heard.

  • Posted By: Seattle reader @ 07/17/2009 8:46:51 PM

    Crimson_H wrote:

    "Amanda & her boyfriend turned off their cell phones simultaneously before murdering Meredith so that their phones would not 'ping' cell towers near the cottage, which would place them at the murder scene.

    They turned their phones 'on' again the next morning, when they were back at the boyfriend's apartment, away from the murder scene."

    Amanda's cottage and Raffaele's apartment are so close to each other that any cell phone activity in either place would have pinged the same towers. You don't know what you're talking about.

    • Posted By: Crimson_H @ 07/18/2009 6:20:57 AM

      I take it you have not read Judge Micheli's sentencing report on Amanda's co-accused, Rudy Guede. I note also that you elided the last portion of my comment in respect of the damning DNA evidence against Amanda. It appears that you are not in a position to accuse me of ignorance about the facts of this case.

  • Posted By: morbie5 @ 07/17/2009 2:12:11 PM

    They already have someone that is convicted of this crime. I don't understand this Amanda Knox trail.

    • Posted By: Crimson_H @ 07/18/2009 6:18:28 AM

      I take it you have not read Judge Micheli's sentencing report on Amanda's co-accused, Rudy Guede. I note also that you elided the last portion of my comment in respect of the damning DNA evidence against Amanda. It appears that you are not in a position to accuse me of ignorance. about the facts of this case.

    • Posted By: Crimson_H @ 07/17/2009 8:00:47 PM

      The man is named Rudy Guede. He chose to be tried separately from Amanda & her boyfriend (Sollecito), and was subsequently convicted (he is young, poor and lacks the familial resources of Amanda & Sollecito). Amanda's PR representatives tried to deny that she knew Rudy, but at trial last month Amanda herself revealed that she was not only introduced to Rudy by her housemates (with whom, Rudy was friendly), but she partied with Rudy as part of a small group from the cottage. Rudy confessed to Amanda's housemates that he was attracted to her.

  • Posted By: want2believe @ 07/18/2009 1:14:08 AM

    Wow! Is there no one in this family with any common sense.? Why are these girls being allowed to go on TV and do interviews? They are young girls with no idea what they are talking about and obviously have no idea of the negative message they are sending! Where are the parents, Kurt and Edda, in all of thiis? Has no one told them that laughing in court, doing interviews in tank tops and short shorts and having all around crappy attitudes is not helping? It's hard for us back here in West Seattle to keep defending Amanda and her family when all we see is this lack of sensetivity to the big picture!

  • Posted By: Iconoblaster @ 07/15/2009 6:33:32 PM

    "DNA doesn't lie"? Hmmm... maybe so, but inferences drawn from finding DNA in a given place are subject to interpretation and distortion. In a rape case, DNA in semen found in the victim's body is dispositive... it can prove that the suspect had intercourse with the defendant. But in other types of cases...like this one... it may prove nothing at all. A TINY sample of DNA may be sufficient to read, and to prove a defendant's physical presence in a given place, but maybe nothing more than that. Finding this young woman's DNA on a knife handle might prove that she had held the knife, but DNA will not show whether she used the knife to cut a carrot, or stab the victim...it DOESN'T prove she was the one who used that knife to kill someone. its entirely possible that someone else used the knife to commit a murder, and its also entirely possible that technicians might not find the DNA of the actual killer on the weapon, even though they handled it, too.

    The claim that innocent people don't lie to the police is ludicrous. They do. It happens all the time. You don't have to be guilty to be afraid... just as you don't have to be guilty to get convicted.

    And police often lie, too... I've worked dozens of cases where police falsely claimed a suspect made some admission or confession, that in fact they did not make. Sometimes there are honest mistakes by law enforcement about what was said, or what was meant...or not so honest mistakes (such as when a suspect gives a sarcastic answer, but the officer later claims it was a straightforward affirmative statement). In cases where more than one language is involved, mistakes and misunderstandings are nearly inevitable.

    Maybe this young woman is guilty... but NONE of those commenting here, including me, have the requisite information to KNOW one way or the other (unless they were there at the time).

    • Posted By: HKmum @ 07/18/2009 12:45:36 AM

      You do not need to be present at a crime, in order to decide beyond reasonable doubt.

      It appears that the 3 direct witnesses involved are lying and hoping that by failing to provide the story, there will be insufficient evidence to convict.

      I expect that all their stories might change, on appeal.

      These are their first-ditch attempts to dissociate themselves.

      However their stories have been already very inconsistent and not in keeping with accounts by various witnesses.

      Know pretends she is somehow in between reality and fantasy and cannot remember anything. This is very transparent.

      Of course they both remember what happened.

    • Posted By: Leoben @ 07/16/2009 9:57:00 AM

      Iconblaster,

      What you say about Knox's DNA on the knife may have been right if the victim's DNA was not also found on the blade; but it was. The knife in question - the knife which is compatible with the Victim's fatal would - was not found in the murder scene, nor did it belong to the cottage where the girl's lived (as per the room-mates testimonies). The knife was found hidden in Sollecito's (Knox's Boyfriend and the other defendant) house. Crucially, it had the victim's DNA on the blade, plus Knox's on the handle. The victim had NEVER been to Sollecito's house, so finding the victim's DNA on the handle cannot possibly be a co-incidence. It's compatibility with the victim's fatal would makes it one of the murder weapons present at the cottage at the time of murder, but indicating that it was transported back to Sollecito's house after the murder (hence victim's DNA on the blade).

      Your claim that in order to know (with absolute certainty) what happened, one would have to have been there is correct. But our legal & educational systems - indeed our entire civilisation - has never been based on absolute knowledge. We learn history from books and believe it although we were never there ourselves. We condemn murderers and rapists though we ourselves we not personally present to wittness the crime for ourselves. Very little of your knowledge of the world, current affairs, science, history or almost anything relies on absolute certainty. Most of what you and I know rely on second-hand knowledge, but that doesn't mean that just because it is second-hand knowledge, that it isn't knowledge at all.

      The two arguments you've presented about the DNA on the knife and the lack of absolute certainty, are therefore, invalid.

      • Posted By: UofM Poster @ 07/17/2009 10:17:54 AM

        I agree completely. The knife, the location of it and the lies wrap it up for me - Even though I was not there!

        Let's face some facts here. These 'Kids' are dysfuncional to the point of being completely amoral. Whatever 'Game' they were playing that evening had results that really mean nothing to them. Only now, when there are clear consewuences in store, do they take the time to get their lies in order. At the time of initial questioning and evidence gathering, they simply thought their denials and lies would be accepted since, in their minds at that point, it wasn't anything to be much concerned about.

      • Posted By: Leoben @ 07/16/2009 10:20:29 AM

        Correction: "Victim's fatal WOUND", not "would". And, "so finding the victim's DNA on the BLADE cannot possibly be a co-incidence".

  • Posted By: Crimson_H @ 07/17/2009 7:47:51 PM

    Amanda & her boyfriend turned off their cell phones simultaneously before murdering Meredith so that their phones would not 'ping' cell towers near the cottage, which would place them at the murder scene.

    They turned their phones 'on' again the next morning, when they were back at the boyfriend's apartment, away from the murder scene.

    Unfortunately for them, however, they brought one of the knives they used with them and didn't scrub it down with enough bleach to remove all of Meredith's DNA from the blade. Busted.

  • Posted By: Seattle reader @ 07/17/2009 6:25:11 PM

    Saavedra wrote: "...A reader stated cell phones were turned off and cell phone were thrown into a neighbor's yard...Rather than attacking the reader for not distinguishing which were turned off and which were thrown away from Kerchner (so she couldn't call for help) the Seattle Reader should examen these facts....."

    Actually, the reader stated "....the cell phones that not only were turned on and off at the same time but were found thrown into a Perugian yard..." which is different from what you said the reader stated.

    I did not attack the reader. I stated he is not qualified to comment on the case, because he appears not to know the facts.

    You don't seem to know them, either. At no time did the prosecution even suggest that anyone other than Guede threw the cell phones into the neighbor's yard.

  • Posted By: Saavedra @ 07/17/2009 5:43:59 PM

    Even as a Seattlite, it bothers me how parochial Knox's family, friends, and allies are. Always they launch into these blogs gainsaying and attacking readers' comments. Take the cell phones comment. A reader stated cell phones were turned off and cell phone were thrown into a neighbor's yard. Rather than attacking the reader for not distinguishing which were turned off and which were thrown away from Kerchner (so she couldn't call for help) the Seattle Reader should examen these facts. Why did Knox and Sollecito shut off their phone prior to the murder (not to mention his computer)? Who does that but someone who want to be undisturbed. And I doubt Guede, the dolt, would have had the presence of mind to gather Kercher's two cell phones and throw them into a neighbor's yard.

    • Posted By: olcranky @ 07/17/2009 6:05:51 PM

      I have to agree. Another thing about the Knox family's parochialism is that when this all happened, their defense for Amanda was that she was a "good girl" who didn't do drugs and wasn't promiscuous in any way and that for her to commit such a heinous act she would have had an implausible enormous change in personality and morality from the good girl she was at home. Well, by Amanda's own admission, she wasn't exactly the little miss innocent her friends and family could never have committed such an act. While being promiscuous and doing drugs do not necessarily equate to being capable of committing murder, drugs and the lack of a clear head could very well have had the extreme negative impact on her decision-making abilities and impulse control. She has continued to incriminate herself in her statements/journals and it is likely that she was very much involved in this murder and will be found guilty

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