I???ve just finished analyzing more than 500 NASA Apollo images by Adobe Photoshop CS4.
I enhanced the sky portion of the images.
See for detail: http://members.shaw.ca/alex11/moonhoax/
To my surprise I found the Moon in the sky of several images, I found shooting stars, two landing modules (in the same image) and the stars in position as seen from the Earth. And not a shred of evidence that any Man has ever been on the Moon.
So I conclude that the images were faked by NASA. Then come the Europeans and the Japanese, and they can not see landing sites. Then comes NASA and they produce a black square and say this is the lunar rover. Would u believe yourself that to be true? I doubt it.
Just the simple fact that 40 years ago, with very basic electronic end instrumentation technology they could land on the Moon, but it takes 40 years with very sophisticated technology and we still do not have clear images of the landing sites, proves to me that such landings never took place.
With Respect
Alex
Moonstruck
Many Americans still believe the moon landings were faked. A look at dedicated scientists and amateurs who debunk the deniers' claims.
Jul 17, 2009 | Updated: 11:14 p.m. ET Jul 16, 2009
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Posted By: Alex22 @ 08/14/2009 12:20:58 AM
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Posted By: Alex22 @ 08/14/2009 12:20:31 AM
I???ve just finished analyzing more than 500 NASA Apollo images by Adobe Photoshop CS4.
I enhanced the sky portion of the images.
See for detail: http://members.shaw.ca/alex11/moonhoax/
To my surprise I found the Moon in the sky of several images, I found shooting stars, two landing modules (in the same image) and the stars in position as seen from the Earth. And not a shred of evidence that any Man has ever been on the Moon.
So I conclude that the images were faked by NASA. Then come the Europeans and the Japanese, and they can not see landing sites. Then comes NASA and they produce a black square and say this is the lunar rover. Would u believe yourself that to be true? I doubt it.
Just the simple fact that 40 years ago, with very basic electronic end instrumentation technology they could land on the Moon, but it takes 40 years with very sophisticated technology and we still do not have clear images of the landing sites, proves to me that such landings never took place.
With Respect
Alex
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/25/2009 11:31:55 AM
In case anyone is interested, here is footage of Buzz Aldrin punching Bart Sibrel in the face after Sibrel lured him to an "interview" under false pretenses and then called him a crook, a liar and a fraud:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akJmRC2ijmY
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Posted By: sablegsd @ 07/24/2009 1:11:45 AM
Posted By: DirSCM @ 07/17/2009 10:41:12 AM
I liked to see a correlation study between moon hoax believers and fundamental Christian conservative "believers," you know - the Republican party. My guess is the correlation would be very high. Those that hate our country so much and are so willing to believe in the incompetance and malfeasance of our government also tend to a fundamental distrust and dismissal of science and scientific achievement.
What a ridiculous statement. I am not a Christian fundamentalist nor a Republican. I do not hate my country, I hate all the crooked politicians. And they are all crooks, the party affiliation makes no difference.
After the long history of lies and corruption perpatrated by the government, how can anyone blindly believe the propaganda?
As far as scientific achievement, it's great. Until it crosses the line of common sense and ethics, just for the sake of science. Science is boldly going where it has no business being.
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Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 7:19:47 PM
I am going end this on a good note. It was nice to read all the comments and debate the topic. I have learned a lot from both sides. I have absolutely no hard feelings toward those who oppose my comments. hlgns763, thanks for the debates. It made my day go faster at work and kept me awake and also I hope to debate other topics with you in the near future. Good Luck to everyone out there searching for answers themselves. This thread has a lot of useful information. On to the next topic whatever that may be.
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/22/2009 1:45:10 PM
fair enough marco. it is a heated debate, and has been for 40 years. all i would ask of you is to look into the progress and accomplishments of nasa and any other space program, and how those accomplishments affect your personal life in a very big way. everything from the internet, to computers, to satellites, to your favorite phone or gps gadget were assisted into existance by the space programs and the needs that had to be met at the time. and now we enjoy such frivolous things as satellite tv, gps, internet, wireless phone service and other more important things like world wide communication, military advantages... even small things like kevlar to protect our men and women were developed for the needs of the space program. solar energy, all kinds of things that you wouldnt think came from nasa endeavors.
in the end, my argument with you was more about the advancements made thanks to the space programs, than about the moon landing itself.
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Posted By: Infinitum3D @ 07/20/2009 11:49:17 AM
Does it really matter whether or not we landed on the moon? How does it affect your personal existence? Did you land on the moon? No. Does anyone you know walk on the moon? No. So why do you care? What difference does it make?
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/20/2009 5:08:46 PM
why do i care about one of the greatest acheivements in the history of the earth? hmmmm.... is that really a question?
out of the billions of years this planet has been in existance, and out of the billions of species that have existed upon it, we are the only species that has sought to travel the stars, we are the only ones that ever had the capability. imagine prehistoric man, sitting around a fire outside his cave, looking up at the moon... pondering and wondering what it is, why its there....
it matters a great deal, it is a hallmark for our species, we have been brought into the space travel era of mankind. if thats not a big deal, than i dont know how people gauge greatness. picture it, the first successful sustained flight of an airplane...1903, 60 years later, we are putting mankind into space.
if there are other intelligent beings out there, at least they could see how far we have come in such a short amount of time. michelangelo and other inventors and great thinkers were dreaming up flying machines hundreds of years ago, now we regularly fly, and put people and objects into space. one day it will become second nature, and no one will think its a big deal to travel to another planet, but as of right now, its a pretty big deal. and makes a big difference to me if we landed there or not. if we did, and i think we did, that means we have (and can hone and develop) the capability to land on another planet. we are talking about space travel here, not driving to the grocery store...
it just boils down to being a very, very big deal for humanity in general.-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/20/2009 8:30:25 PM
Doesn't really matter at all....
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 11:00:46 AM
this single comment has given me more than enough reason to completely and utterly ignore any kind of input, idea, thought, or slander you have to say against me, or the apollo missions, or any other issue or acheivement related to the human race.
now, i am officially calling you a moron, and actually, i dont know of a sufficient word within the boundries of human language to label that comment.
how do you feel about other great advancements? how do you feel about electricity? how do you feel about the internet? how do you feel about automobiles, airplanes, medical breakthroughs and all the other countless acheivements that you enjoy freely and never give a second thought to?
is all that irrelevant too?
i dont think you have the brain capacity, nor the want, to actually think about what you just said and how completely stupid it is. forget the moon argument, your completely discrediting probably the greatest technological acheivements we as a species have ever had. you should feel blessed to be living in a time such as this to see humans gain the ability to leave earth. in under a hundred years, we have seen into deep space, we have sent probes out to find intelligent life, we have begun to unravel the mysteries of why and how we are here as living, concious beings. and we did it all through getting into space.
but to you, its "ho hum, how does it affect me? who cares?"
stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.
go back to your cave, and pretend the world is flat, the earth is the center of the universe, and that this planet has existed for only 2000 years. your no better than a neanderthal.
you have no more merit, no more credit whatsoever with me, dont bother responding, you will get no more from me.
now piss off. i have no patience for someone that cant even recognize such a huge leap for humanity.-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 12:43:15 PM
BTW...speaking of the great advancments. I am truly thankful for all of them because most are necessary to everyday living. As far as this space mumbo jumbo bullcrap that we truly wasted tons of money on, does not affect me or any other person living on this planet. It has not done a damn thing for anybody except give the US some bragging rights. Hoo-Raa STFU Idiot
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 2:24:21 PM
so, i lied marco, my apologies. i am going to respond to you again....
your a funny little troll.
if you had an ounce, a single minescule ounce of respect OR intelligence you could understand the gravity and importance of our first endeavours into space. the nasa space program will be looked back up 500 years from now and people will hail our first steps among the greatest things mankind has ever done in history.
and you really dont understand how space travel, the study of space, and how all the related feilds affect "you and any other living person on the planet".
newsflash there pal, the earth is IN SPACE, make that connection yet? to NOT UNDERSTAND SPACE is to not understand our place in it and why we are in it. to not understand space, is to remain like a mere animal that goes about its day grazing on grass and waiting to get eaten. are you an animal mr. marco? simply grazing along with all the other sheeple?
let me say it again to get it through your incredibly thick skull... THE EEAARTH....IISSS....IIINNN....SSSPPPPPAAAAACCCEEE....THERE FORE, T-R-A-V-E-L-I-N-G INTO S-P-A-C-E AND THEN UNDERSTANDING S-P-A-C-E IS DEFINATELY SOMETHING THAT AFFECTS EVERY LIVING PERSON ON THE PLANET...
get all that? too hard to grasp still?
i think i got you worked up too, and no, nothing about you or anything youve said even remotely gets me "aroused". thanks though, im straight... and dont think for a second that i didnt realize that is exactly why you said it, thats why i came back at you so hard.
and oh... it feels soooooooo good mr. marco... mmmm.... give me some more idiocy please? yeah baby, you know how i like it... good and stupid, right in the tail pipe....
have fun with your conspiracies, have fun playing your little devils advocate game, he must be paying you over time cuz your really clocking in the hours lately. have fun and please, please, please... do continue to minimize our acheivements, maybe buzz aldrin can have a sit down with you, and then you can have an elderly astronaut that walked on the moon knock your teeth out. thats really would be something wouldnt it? i would pay to see it. twice, maybe even three times.... but i dont think im THAT lucky...-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 4:35:21 PM
I said I was not going to comment on here anymore no matter what anybody said but somehow you bring it out of me. You can preach this nonsense to your autistic family and/or students. Please enlighten me on something that is not of the elementary school level cause clearly all this junk you spit is taught in elementary school. You and most of the people on here, talk as if you got stone cold facts written in stone by the astroNOTS themselves. Clearly, this is a touchy subject for and I just love to see you butt hurt of every debunk on here. The day that any of the Apollo astroNOTS punch me in the face, will be the day I say the moon landing is real which looks like it wont be during my, I mean your, lifetime on this planet because im sure you have one foot in the grave. I'd pay money to see your face when you find out the moon landing is a hoax. Like I said before, it doesn't affect anybody on this planet. Yes it is nice to know where we came from, how we evolved, how many other solar systems out there, but what is that doing for you? Im sure you know how many solar systems we have? right? The world keeps on turning and revolving around sun whether you find out about it or not. I knew I couldn't get you aroused. One foot in the grave...can't perform...ED..maybe...whatever..I'll have my conspiracy and you can your hoax.clearly your getting the overtime wtih these novels you write. Oh yeah..I don't see someone as you scientific as you so believing in the Devil. Nice mention though. Good Luck with that punch. Make sure you charge up your HOVEROUND.
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/22/2009 12:20:52 PM
sorry, sir, im 23, college educated, amongst other acheivments i dont care to mention because you would say "doesnt matter at all".
and i dont beleive in the devil, or religion for that matter. tis a plague upon the human psyche.
none of the accomplishments are doing much for me, on a purely personal level marco, its what the accomplishments are doing for the progress of humanity. it doesnt seem like much to you now, but your grandkids, and they're grand kids will grow into the space travel age and it will eventually become second nature, like flying to the other side of the world in an airplane, which was once thought to be impossible as well.
i find it strange that you still dont think the space program affects your everyday life, being that if you own a cell phone, use the internet, have cable tv, have family/friends in the military, enjoy a computer, like your gps gadget, or any number of other things all came from technological acheivements brought about by the push to explore space. satellites are a big deal, are they not? if suddenly a solar storm hit earth, and fried all of our satelites, i GAURUNTEE you would change your tone in the blink of an eye. suddenly space isnt so stupid anymore when the world is built on satellite communication and information exchange. no more HBO, or internet, or spy satellites or communication satellites to keep our forces safe in battle, suddenly, people get lost because they have become so dependant upon the technology that they think will always be reliable.
the world changed the day we entered space. FACT. deal with it. im not even arguing about the landing anymore, you just dont fully understand the scope of the technological acheivements that affect your life on a very personal level.
again, thats no ones problem but your own....
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 2:45:50 PM
"space mumbo jumbo crap"
hahahahahahahahaha
oooo man, that says it all right there.... i think some coffee just shot out of my nose...
o man, thanks for the laugh buddy, i needed it.
space mumbo jumbo crap.... your a card. are you sure your not a comedian? im starting yo think so, because with every post you get funnier and funnier...
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Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 12:35:58 PM
I'd knew that would get you aroused. Feels good doesn't it. I'll be moron just as you are an idiot for buying this croc of ****. Fair well and following seas....
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Posted By: onemind @ 07/20/2009 6:54:36 PM
"out of the billions of years this planet has been in existance, and out of the billions of species that have existed upon it, we are the only species that has sought to travel the stars"
The first astronauts were chimpanzees. Sure we sent them up there but give credit where credit is due. :) I agree with you. Just wanted to inject a little humor although it is true. We sent chimps up before we sent humans.
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Posted By: getreasonable @ 07/20/2009 11:58:23 AM
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Posted By: Hisdroogness @ 07/20/2009 4:50:33 PM
its about lies perpetuated by the government dopey!!
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Posted By: drewand @ 07/20/2009 4:36:27 PM
So let me get this straight.., some rocks, some photographs and the word of the co-conspirators is all you have to prove we landed on the moon 40 years ago? We would have a hard time going there now with modern technology. I have no doubt that there were probes to the moon but I don't know if I believe that men walked or hit golf balls on the moon. The bigger question is why do we insist of shooting Trillions of dollars into space. Are we minining Mars or the Moon have we gained anything of value from all of this foolishness. It would be more reasonable to be exploring the oceans as far as I am concerned. Maybe we did but I still think that any government that can cove up the assasination of John Kennedy is truely capable of anything!!
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/20/2009 4:51:32 PM
"So let me get this straight.., some rocks, some photographs and the word of the co-conspirators is all you have to prove we landed on the moon 40 years ago? We would have a hard time going there now with modern technology."
those "rocks" have been examined ever since they wer brought back to earth by the worlds best geologists around the world. proven to be from the moon, and of extra-terrestrial origin. look it up.
co-conspirators? what? you mean the hundreds of thousands of people that nasa has employed over the years? are they all in on the hoax too? have they all been paid to keep quiet?
and no, we would have a much easier time landing there these days. come on, we put a robot on mars, we are part of an international space station and space ventures, we have been to the moon 5 times in all.
do you beleive that we are able to travel to space? do you beleive that we were traveling into space during the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and today? if yes, then why is it hard to think we landed on that big rock in the sky?-
Posted By: drewand @ 07/20/2009 5:40:18 PM
You may believe the menusia but the rocks on the moon are identical to Earth rocks..look it up.
The thousands of coconspirators? Excuse me sparky were you there?
And I still say that even if we went to the moon, WHAT THEN? What has this monumental acheievement done for mankind? What have we gained? We are spending boatloads, boatloads of money to feed the collective egos of science and industry. All I can say is I don't know if we did go to the moon with a "manned" flight. I don't believe things just because somebody else says so.-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/20/2009 8:50:34 PM
Oh I forgot to mention, hlgns763 went to the moon.
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 10:40:47 AM
marco.... prove i didnt...
prove all the apollo astronauts didnt.
no proof?
suck eggs then.
i dont know what else to tell you.-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 12:23:31 PM
Prove they did.
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 2:31:51 PM
im not your teacher, and sadly, i fear that you are significantly older than myself, which is even more of a reason to not educate you. you said it yourself, its not logical for a 45 yr old man to be schooled by a youngster. so, figure it out old man.
prove it to your damned self, im done trying to convince you, all the evidence in the world wouldnt be able to convince someone like you. the truth could kick you square in your testes and you wouldnt be able to tell if it was the truth, or a banana milk shake.
heres a research tip. google.
did you know that you have literally almost all of mankinds documented knowledge at your finger tips? its called the internet. using a computer at the library? even better, go read a book or 2. find the evidence, talk to people, ask questions. all things i have never seen you do here. you ask to prove it, well, there is such a MASSIVE amount of evidence, that i dont even know where to being with you.
so, suck eggs, or figure it out. OR, remain the way you are and continue on with your life thinking these ludicris thoughts. THAT, my dear friend, affects no other living person on this planet... but you.-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 4:47:47 PM
BTW..since when did you start believing me? I did not get that memo. Last time I checked I was an idiot old man. You must be BUZZ and NEIL BFF or something.
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Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 4:39:34 PM
Get it through your thick skull. You will never convince anyone on here. Your delusional.
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Posted By: Hisdroogness @ 07/21/2009 9:21:34 AM
I think you are missing the point, "we" agree that the rocks are from space what we are saying is that "we" do not believe that a human picked them up from the surface of the moon they were retrieved by automatons.(probes) Yes robot on mars that is easier than a human I mean for flip sake we have trouble sending people into the depths of our own oceans !! Use your skull for something other than keeping your baseball cap on (probably backwards to be cool like all the other sheep).
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 11:48:24 AM
speaking of caps, i like yours, its all shiny... jst like tinfoil.
keeping the evil government mind control rays out? is big brother in your tv and computer?
maybe your the sheep, and im the shepard eh? maybe, im obama, here to brain wash each and every american one at a time... -
Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 11:15:19 AM
your argument about the oceans....
the oceans hav IMMENSE, ABSOLUTELY IMMENSE amounts of pressure...
space is a vaccum.
your comparing flying an airplane with swimming in the ocean. the 2 dont compare beyond air/water currents. -
Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 10:39:46 AM
you really have no good idea about the timeline and progress of technology....
we didnt have robotics capable of sufficient remote control in the 60's, we just didnt have it. we had people. and people collected the rocks.
we had plenty of satelites, still do from that time period that are currently fucntioning. but no robotics.
next.
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 11:46:31 AM
sparky?
ha, alrighty then...
for once in your life, try a little something.
you dont need to beleive what everyone tells you, what the media says, what your parents taught you, what you learned in school.... you dont need to beleive anything. but, try finding out for yourself for once. research, read up on the wealth of information about space and space travel that is literally at your fingertips, right here, right now... -
Posted By: lvbartman @ 07/20/2009 10:02:53 PM
Oh oh. Your comments are quite indicative of a very small closed mind, characteristic of that rapidly disappearing species known as republicans
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Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/20/2009 8:43:29 PM
If an alien spaceship crash landed, of the probably 1 million people working for the government, how many people do you actually think would know about the crash landing? The NASA cover up was on a need to know basis.
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Posted By: doubleOsamurai @ 07/21/2009 3:38:49 PM
Nasa uses obsolete technology making everything cost more than it should. Quantum physics is the key to unlocking new propulsion technology that would fase out the use of rockets. Space pioneering is pretty much dead without the use of some sort of "hyperdrive" to effortlessly travel to anywhere within the solar system or behond.
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Posted By: Fort Begay @ 07/21/2009 3:26:26 PM
YouTube has a video made about the time that we "landed on the moon." You will see the lighting structure collapse and extra takes. It looks quite identical to the film that was use to convince people that we landed. Search on YouTube.
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Posted By: Jodeloplus @ 07/20/2009 5:32:13 AM
I have just one question. With 40 fears passed by, and technology being gigantically improve, How come there´s never been a 2nd landing on the moon... I they were able todo it with 40 years less of technology, why they haven´t onde it again?...
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Posted By: Fort Begay @ 07/21/2009 3:17:35 PM
We haven't gone back because we've never been there. We lied initially to be the winners of the spacerace. We hae more to gain in insisting that we were there than to admite. Can you imagine how upset many would be? Just reading this blog shows the passion on either camps. I think if the truth were revealed, some would really begin to question our gov't. It's an uncomfotable contemplation for most--even the ones who don't believe we've ever been there.
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Posted By: DGKnipfer @ 07/20/2009 11:17:11 AM
Because Congress hasn't funded it and NASA hasn't planned it. NASA would love to go back to the moon but without a massive increase in government funds to do so it just isn't possible.
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Posted By: Infinitum3D @ 07/20/2009 11:27:16 AM
Why would we go back? There was noting there bust dust and rocks. Nothing to study, nothing scientific, nothing interesting. NASA has been focusing instead on a manned mission to Mars, which could eventually support human life.
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Posted By: standingwaver @ 07/20/2009 9:19:44 PM
Helium 3 which might possibly allow cold fusion and large amounts of titanium.
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 11:17:47 AM
not to mention, the regolith is perfect for creating solar panels and solar cells. everything that is needed is within the rock. several scientists from arizona state university are working on an unmanned, as well as austomated, regolith processor that has the ability to intake regolith, and lay down solar strips.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/21/2009 10:10:17 AM
Um...we went back to the moon five times, for six manned landings in all - Apollo 11 through 17, with an exception made for Apollo 13 which famously had machinery malfunctions. Eleven people walked on the surface.
The reason we didn't keep it up, mainly, is that 1) the Challenger disaster killed a lot of momentum for our space program, and 2) the Soviet Union collapsed. The Cold War was driving the space race. Without it, there hasn't been as much incentive to go back into space. -
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/20/2009 11:27:35 AM
supposely they have been several more times after the first one.....
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Posted By: maiden1511 @ 07/20/2009 11:21:53 AM
What's 40 fears mean? A second moon landing? I think there were 6 in all up to about 1974
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Posted By: jupmod @ 07/20/2009 6:51:49 AM
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Posted By: omgwtf @ 07/20/2009 3:03:39 PM
My husbands Scicilian grandafther's response to watching the moon landing on TV was to throw the TV out the window screaming "american propaganda". He would be about 110 years old if he were still around and he more than likely used a donkey for transportation in the old country. Aside from his serious anger management problems I can see where there'd be some disbelief , but I beleive keeping that many people involved in that big a hoax is less possible than say, going through the van allen belt (?) I beleived it when I was 10 and I still do.
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Posted By: you never know @ 07/20/2009 3:17:23 PM
You woud be surprised what money can buy, don't tell me you're that naive
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/20/2009 3:33:34 PM
prove it. just present your evidence. prove that the world has been fooled for 40+ years, and that somehow, the hundreds of thousands of nasa employees have been paid to keep quiet (when in the end, coming out with evidence to prove it was fake would make them much more money than what the government is paying them.)
yeah, money can buy alot when you have alot of it, but other countries, including russia (which we were at odds with during this time, the cold war) admitted that we, the united states, had made it to the moon first. not exactly something you admit when your countries prestige is riding on your technological acheivements.
something tells me omgwtf is not the naive one....
beleiveing in conspiracies is just as bad as beleiving everything the government tells you. neither is healthy.
we went to the moon. end of story.-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/20/2009 3:54:34 PM
Oh...were you one of the astronauts that touched down on the moon?
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/20/2009 4:06:57 PM
even if i was you wouldnt beleive me would you? youd say "oh your just part of a government cover up".
fact is, there is more evidence, such as the retroreflectors near several of the landing sites, (because we went to the moon SEVERAL TIMES, and spent years prior to landing proving that we would be able to do it "safely" through all the other launches and missions) to prove that we have been to the moon. there is more evidence than not. its not my problem if you dont beleive it, you can go about your life thinking that we dont even travel into space even to this day, and that with each space mission that is recorded is merely a special effects bonanza, and the government is lying to you about it. i mean holy crap, nasa is prepping to make a manned trip to mars... to MARS.... how do you test landing a manned craft on mars? you land on the moon first. duhhherrr....
so is that channel on tv that has 24hr a day surveilance of the space station or shuttle missions just a big hoax too or what?-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/20/2009 4:57:04 PM
Yes we have space stations, yes we travel space to some extent. Never said that we didn't. You seem so confident about your responses I just had to ask if you were an actual astronaut or NASA employee. How can you say with 100% certain that we have actaul been to the moon? you must have been there. So I guess you believe the world is going to end in 2012? Right?
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/20/2009 5:18:52 PM
ha, the world could end tomorrow for all we know... im not a conspiracy theorist, i just did some research, used common sense and logic to come to a conclusion. well before apollo 11 we were puttin people in space, flying around the moon, testing what was possible, and if it was possible, to land there, walk around, and take off again. nasa doesnt mess around, when they do something, they tend to do it right hopefully the first time.
your comparing apples to oranges. im not the one trying to falsify years of evidence and prove fatcs wrong here.
why would we go into space, launch probes at the moon, send rockets around the moon, and not take the chance of landing there? that alone begs the question of your position. look it all up, research it, check out all available information. your still not providing any kind of evidence to prove your side of things, which leaves you with no credit or merit at all. and old loon can scream "LIES LIES LIES" when they dont know or understand the facts. do you still think that we never to this day landed on the moon?
if you easily admit that we are VERY capable of space flight and travel, i guess theres a lack of logic in not admitting to landing on the moon....to me anyway. think what you want, and i will happily await a response with more than your opinion.-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/20/2009 8:54:29 PM
Of course you should test the water before you go diving in. That's common sense.
I cannot prove to you (nor would I try to when your biased to fact we did) it was real no more than you can prove to me it was fake.-
Posted By: you never know @ 07/21/2009 12:08:45 AM
I agree with Marco, we can't prove it was fake just as the other people on this site can't prove it was real. We both have evidence of it being real and fake. So where does that leave this topic?? We will be arguing forever. In my mind I can come up with explanations for evey issue raised (from "common sense" and from theories I've heard), wll I waste my time posting them? No, because everyone will call it stupid, you're biased. I'm just trying to be realistic.
One thing I don't understand and haven't heard anyone mention is the temperature on the moon. Many scientists have stated that temperatures on the moon are either estremely hot (212 F) or extremely cold (something like -220 F), so how is it possible to go for a stroll on the moon? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or trying to prove anyone wrong, I'm just genuinely curious on that explanation.
Also, I do believe there are so many ways they can collect moon rocks, there are "moon rocks" at my city's science centre collected here on earth. They could have had robots collect those rocks and debris. If they landed any type of space craft on the moon, whether with or without a person, they would have left something behind (your dear reflectors).
You know when I will absolutely believe in a manned landing? Is when another country goes to the moon and confirms all the junk we left behind. The flags and everything else. Sorry, I'm not easily convinced guys. Call me a girl with a strong sense of opinion. However ignorant I am not. And I don't think people who believe in a manned landing are ignorant, they just put their hearts into certain beliefs a little easier than me. Now, anything that comes from the US government with questionable evidence will take that much longer to believe. Sorry if I'm offending anyone... that's just how I work.-
Posted By: Audentous @ 07/21/2009 1:03:15 AM
First of all, looking at how a flag with a pole through it waves in atmosphere and expecting it to behave similarly (at all) in a low gravity vacuum is just ignorance. Not to insult you or anything, but I bet the only "expert" you can name that's a detractor of the moon landings is likely to be Dr. Groves... who is an imaging technician that has been repeatedly debunked by his peers and actual scientists.
If people would even only look at the wikipedia article (I know, I know, the lazy man's way to do research... but people don't even seem to do that), they would find an extensive list of debunked conspiracies and myths with plenty of reputable citations and references.
To be perfectly honest, most of the claims (such as "the flag is waving" and the Van Allen Radiation belt) can be easily debunked with a high school level knowledge of physics. Even Dr. Van Allen himself has been recorded as stating that a 1/8 inch thick aluminum plating would be plenty of shielding to take a group of people through even the high energy lower belts. The flag itself is seen waving in the videos for a while after it was first planted, then remains still for over 30 minutes. The phenomenon behind this is called inertia, which is a lot more apparent when you realize there was no atmosphere and very little gravity like there is on earth to stop the flag from continuing to fluctuate with the original movement that put it there.
More to the point, most conspiracy theories hinge on the government controlling the information, lives, and undying loyalties of all the thousands of technicians, consultants, scientists, engineers, and radio enthusiasts (there are many who caught and recorded the transmissions) that all took part of this wonderful achievement in some way and getting them to keep up a continuous stream of disinformation through the course of 40 years of scrutiny and investigation... but they couldn't figure out how a flag was supposed to move in space. Really? It's a ludicrous idea with absolutely NO expert backing.
That's the biggest myth, really, is the one presented by "you never know": That there are equal numbers of people on each side of the argument. There aren't... not even in the general populace, much less in the scientific community. Every single detractor is an amateur, a journalist, a reporter, a simple bystander that simply thought the flag waved funny, or (in one very particular case) one single individual with a lot of apparent expertise in analyzing photos... but alternatively a lot of openly admitted bias, improper scientific procedure, and almost no credentials to speak of.
The "moon landing hoax" theories aren't believed by skeptics, because any true skeptic will think through the common sense of the arguments presented and say... "Wow... these guys have no idea of what they're talking about"... which is true. None of the proponents of the moon landing hoax would likely pass an entry level-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 8:59:37 AM
Ok I keep seeing this on this thread about how easy it is to get through the radiation belts surrounding earth. Ok, you all claim that scientist and Dr's have already explained how you can get through them!
Now my question.
Are they talking from experience or is it just a theory?
If they have not went and tested it themselves, why are people so eager to believe? How can you just accept someone's word who have never experienced it?
Its like a 45yo man/woman, taking life lessons from a toddler.-
Posted By: DGKnipfer @ 07/21/2009 1:20:25 PM
Dear sweet FSM you are thick. We started with tests in the lab were the scientists you suggest didn't test it themselves tested it. Fron there we went to launching living organisms into the radiation belts to see if we had the science right. What do you think all those space monkey and space dog missions in the 1950s were all about? We were testing our ability to survive the radiation by exposing a living animal to the conditions we expected based on lab research. Once we proved to ourselves that we had the basic science right we moved on to manned missions so we could confirm that we had it right. From there we went to lunar orbit missions and finally on to lunar landing. Each step along the way improved our chances in the next step.
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 2:49:51 PM
dont even bother with "mr. marco"
there is no reasoning with the conspiracy theorists. none whatsoever.
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Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 12:29:31 PM
When I refer to experience in the above post, I am actually refering to things which is not of this planet.
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Posted By: getreasonable @ 07/21/2009 10:57:37 AM
I've never been to China, so based on your logic, I shouldn't believe it exists. People tell me the've been there, but they could be lieing. I've seen pictures, but they could be fake. Everything I buy has "made in China" stamped on it, but that could just be part of the conspiracy to make me believe it is there.
Your logic of "unless I've been there, you can't know" is a false argument.-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 12:27:43 PM
China and the moon are on the opposite sides of the scale. We for a fact know people can travel anywhere on the Planet, my logic refers to something that is not of this Planet. That's just common sense which I see you lack.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/21/2009 11:33:47 AM
Obviously China is actually a longstanding fiction cooked up by the CIA in order to build support for Kenyan Marxist Communism and Obamacare. :P The goal is to make us think that a Communist country could actually manufacture something, see.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/21/2009 11:37:21 AM
My Chinese-American friends are also CIA fictions, I think.
I'm looking forward to the day when they all expose themselves to be robots, that will be completely and totally sweet.
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Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 11:30:55 AM
then heres some advice, marco, if you cant prove anything, and have so little to say about it, and so little knowledge, and you are also biased and DONT beleive we landed, then dont say anything at all.
within any scientific community, the real experts to walk around playing devils advocate just for fun or because they have an inclination that something is false. they test, retest, observe, think, test some more, and come to a conclusion. from the looks of it, beyond the fact that your interested in astronomy (which is the mapping of the stars, and at this point, looking through a telescope from your living room in your spare time does not constitute any kind of knowledge in the area of space, stars, and much less, space travel and our capabilities in that area.)
if you still dont know one way or the other on a personal level, dont come here and act like you dont beleive, then turn around and be impartial to the idea. now your changing your mind mid sentence, another thing that doesnt bode well in the scientific community. you cant just "change your mind" in relation to facts. and its no ones problem but your own if you ignore that mountains of evidence against your position.-
Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 12:31:25 PM
Not biased. I had an open-mind about it. I looked at both sides of it and determined my stance upon it. Im not totally 100% we did not go but I believe in more that we did not go than that of which we did.
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Posted By: lvbartman @ 07/20/2009 9:58:38 PM
Well, Marco, why don't prove that we did NOT land on the moon, prove that a giant total coverup has been going on for forty years. While you are at it, how about the conspiracy that that wants us to believe that the earth revolves around the sun!? LOL
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/21/2009 1:42:41 PM
Galileo was actually confined to house arrest by the Roman Inquisition for the rest of his life for debunking the sun-moves-around-the-Earth theory. :P
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Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/21/2009 8:50:01 AM
You clearly cannot comprehend. Why don't you scroll up some?
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Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/20/2009 3:49:21 PM
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Posted By: Mr_Marco @ 07/20/2009 3:48:06 PM
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Posted By: Fort Begay @ 07/20/2009 2:50:47 AM
The best way to denounce the suspicious is by ignoring them and calling them "small-minded." The guilty party always resorts to "no comment." Until they are cornered, people will continue to say we landed on the moon. It's impossible that we even survived the moon landing based on the technology that we know today. Or that we could have reentered the earth's atmosphere without literally burning up. The lighting used are similar to a Hollywood camera setting.
It's hard to swallow, I know, but when you see how the gov't has lied and cheated its people, you should not be surprised at all.-
Posted By: DGKnipfer @ 07/20/2009 11:28:49 AM
Take your meds. Quit ignoring your doctor's advice.
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Posted By: sablegsd @ 07/21/2009 1:47:23 AM
Your childish and snarky remarks to people who don't agree with you are disgusting. Figures you would be a government drone.
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Posted By: DGKnipfer @ 07/21/2009 12:44:31 PM
I'm a contractor, sweetness. I don't drone for anybody.
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Posted By: EagleMan @ 07/21/2009 3:49:15 AM
You don't exist and you're a lie.
Me saying that is as logical as what you're saying.
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Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/21/2009 11:37:11 AM
The gravity of this subject is just awesome. The gravamen is knee deep. There is a grave importance to this for many, as we send words through the air and over wires, all of which really do not exist.
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Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/21/2009 11:39:05 AM
But I have faith that they must be there or we wouldn't be able to communicate with each other.
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Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/21/2009 11:40:48 AM
The wires are there, but just a prop to fool the general public.
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Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/21/2009 10:04:00 AM
We made great progress in education in the last century, but left at least eleven per cent of our citizens behind who either believe that we did not go to the moon or leave it open for further investigation. We must be ever vigilant of the power of ignorance to drag us back from our hard earned progress. Just stop and ponder "faith based" education, a tendency to try to make scientific conclusions today consistent with the science in a book written when the wheel was our most modern invention. There is a tendency there to replace the sun as the center of the universe again.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/21/2009 10:19:52 AM
This article and some of the comments on it are indeed doing a good job of convincing me of the dangers of non-scientifically-based learning. It's unfortunate to see "faith" redefined as "imagination and paranoia".
Hey, maybe we didn't go to the moon after all, right? :P Especially if the world is flat.-
Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/21/2009 11:30:45 AM
Yes, Vigilance, faith is great where faith works best, but attempts to inject it into science courses where faith doctrines conflict with eyeball measurements is where the problems arise. The problem appears to go back to the findings of Darwin and the conclusions that he reached from those findings about the animals living in an isolated area of the world. The theory that he developed seems to have offended religious leaders of the time who felt that he might be challenging their faith, some of whose tenets were not consistent with his theory of the way that the life which he had observed might have gone forward. Somewhere along that road, the two factions, science and religion commenced to leer at each other and things have escalated from that point to what we see today. Our founders tried to do something to separate religion from government, but with the nebulous wording, we have a battle going on there, too. I guess that we can conclude that we have evolved into an arguing species and we must enjoy it or we wouldn't spend so much time doing it.
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Posted By: olderwiser @ 07/21/2009 10:18:16 AM
I see underlying this controversy the current battle between the fields of religion and science to discredit each other. The reason this is going on is too complicated for me to understand, but science on the one hand is very critical of religion for claiming that persons can die, be buried in a cave with a rock on the entrance, and then get up, push the stone away, and walk three days later, and other such articles of faith incapable of being replicated today. Science calls this story a myth. Now, those who believe that this event literally took place are trying to take revenge for scientific criticism of that event by calling the placing of men onto the surface of the moon a myth. The error that I see in this controversy is much like a person determined to mix cold water in hot grease with a stick. It just won't happen. The two fields are separate. One is a spiritual pursuit strictly based in faith without requirement for scientific proof. The other is strictly science without any involvement of faith except in the precise and observable measurements capable of replication by others using the same precise and visible measurements. I would simply ask the one not to drag us back into the well of ignorance and the other not to criticize the faithful for their beliefs.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/21/2009 10:52:21 AM
This is what I want to know -
The moon landing has been verified by observatories independent of NASA at various places all over the world, including by verifying the laser reflectors left behind at the landing site. The world scientific community has wholeheartedly accepted that we were there, and even the Soviet Union never tried to deny that we actually went to the Moon. It ranks up there with the greatest American achievements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_denial - That article explains a wide range of oppositions to the landing, and refutations for those arguments.
So how on Earth does Roger Ailes green-light a special about how the moon landing may have been a hoax, for Fox News, and then have the arrogance to call OTHER PEOPLE traitors to America? >:(-
Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/21/2009 11:21:49 AM
thank-you-vig.
for the love of a god i dont beleive in, the info is out there, the evidence can be seen, no one looks.
ive been part of plenty of political debates about some of the hottest issues there are, but i have honestly never been as frusterated about a discussion as i am now.
and, yeah, the sheer arrogance of fox is sickening.-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/21/2009 11:30:23 AM
The cable news folks are all terrible these days, but Fox makes a particular habit of going after people for being unpatriotic for a variety of reasons. When you are so anti-government that you're inspiring people to distrust and deny what should be among the greatest of nonpartisan American scientific and exploratory achievements, yet you're calling other people a bunch of traitors, it's time to take a look at your philosophy.
It would have been like someone trying to tell Columbus that the New World was a myth, and obviously those weird plants and bugs you brought back are made out of dead homonunculi and ether, damn you for a liar Columbus, I bet your boats really fell off the edge of the world and you needed to make it look good somehow.
Of course, given the reactions to this article, for all I know that dude was probably waiting for Columbus the second he set foot back on Spanish soil. :P
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Posted By: getreasonable @ 07/20/2009 11:14:55 AM
The stupidity of people never cease to amaze me. The evidence for the moon landings is massive and the experiments that disprove the debunkers is overwhelming. A simple layman like myself can see and duplicate many of these experiments from the flag "blowing in the wind" to the "strange shadows" to the "lack of stars". It says a lot about the person who chooses to suspend reality to believe in something that defies reason. Based on the percentage of comments here, we as a country are doomed as these people are chosing the leadership (not a political left or right issue as I'm sure these fools are roughly evenly split among both). By the way: there is no Santa Clause, PEOPLE built the pyramids, and sadly JFK and Elvis are dead.
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Posted By: Hisdroogness @ 07/20/2009 1:31:14 PM
Have you looked at the pictures? look at the strange shadows coming from many different angles and tell me its not staged
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Posted By: getreasonable @ 07/21/2009 11:16:41 AM
I have. Have YOU ever turned on a porch light and took a picture of your backyard and looked at the shadows? You'll find the same "weirdness". There have been several shows on the Discovery (not just Mythbusters) that explain these effects.
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Posted By: Matthew in Chicago @ 07/20/2009 1:47:23 PM
The deniers argument that the sun is the only light source on the moon and therefore all shadows should follow the same angle is completely ridiculous. Ummmm, the moon's surface and anything on it including craters, boulders, eagle-landers and men in white space suits all reflect light and become sources of light themselves.
If you don't believe me try this simple experiment, wait for a night with a bright full moon. Go outside. Look around. Can you see the sun? No. Ok, can you see anything else? Mystery solved. -
Posted By: hlgns763 @ 07/20/2009 1:41:28 PM
do you have any idea how reflective the sruface of the moon is? considering on earth we have all the levels of atmosphere to filter light, the moon would be an extremely bright place in the middle of the sun, reflecting light off of the regolith and rocks. regolith has a silvery shine to it, which is why the moon becomes to bright when full, and its almost brightt enough at times to see clearly at night on earth in any given area, much less an area devoid of light pollution...
your assumptions have been debunked by the commonly known TV show, Mythbusters. look it up. they even visited NASA to talk to experts, AND use some of the equipment to prove these myths otherwise. such as using one of the giant vacuums to prove the "flag myth" to be wrong. objects within a vacuum have zero resistance, therefore, a flag that was bumped or moved would sway longer in a vacuum than on earth where it would be competing with air currents.
do none of you attempt to find the information to prove your theories correct?
obviously not. you use talking points and hersay to substantiate your claims, such things dont hold up in the scientific world.
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Posted By: you never know @ 07/21/2009 10:13:58 AM
Okay so I'm still trying to figure out some things. If all the experts that know so much about space science on this site can answer me and give me a reference that would be great and maybe I'll finally be convinced.
What is the temperature on the moon? Especially if the sun was beaming down on them at the time of the landings and there's no atmosphere on the moon? Can someone please help me?-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/21/2009 10:44:12 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_denial
That Wiki article gives refutations to most moon landing denial questions, including temperature.
To answer your question - during the Moon's "daytime" the lunar surface is around 95-120 degrees Celsius, or 200-250 degrees Fahrenheit. Deniers claim this makes the landing impossible, as it would have been too hot for astronauts to survive. But the Moon's surface is airless by our standards, and the atmosphere so thin as to be nearly trivial. There's no air to transfer heat from the surface to the astronauts, which means radiation from the surface, direct sunlight, and contact through their boots would be the only sources of heat transfer to the astronaut's suits. The same way somebody wearing thick boots can walk on hot coals, the astronauts could walk on the moon's surface, and there's no hot air to heat up the inside of their suits.
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Posted By: roland01 @ 07/17/2009 10:07:16 PM
We would be doing a great disservice to society by convincing hoax believers that the moon landings really did take place. In the process we would lose a very important social filtering mechanism. Whenever someone states that the moon landings never actually took place we know instantly and with complete certainty that the person is a complete idiot. And we know right away that we will never have to lend any credence whatsoever to anything this person says for the rest of our lives. This can be an essential time saver in problem solving and brainstorming sessions when evaluating competing ideas from multiple sources that include those offered by hoax believers. Utterances of the latter can be immediately discarded since anyone stupid enough to believe such errant nonsense cannot be depended upon to think logically and coherently in other circumstances. We should give all hoax believers every opportunity to express themselves so this important filtering mechanism will remain in place.
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Posted By: Hisdroogness @ 07/21/2009 9:52:36 AM
All i am asking for is some proof that there was a "manned" landing. the photographic evidence does not convince and all other evidence could have been gathered by probes and automatons. I dont believe in alien spacecraft for the self same reason the photographs are BS and nothing else supports it. Oh yea and the wonderful collection of stories culled together and published as the bible gives no reason to believe it as anything more than life lessons and some horror stories and the scribblings or insane peoples. I refuse to be a SHEEP like so many of you people who blindly believe what the media tells us!
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/21/2009 10:25:13 AM
Not believing anything the media tells you is just as dangerous as believing everything they tell you.
Not everything the media says is true - far from it - but the moon landings, or rather the laser-reflective surfaces they left behind for scientific purposes, have been verified by several independent astronomy research centers and telescopes around the world. At some point a conspiracy requires SO many willing participants (more than four hundred thousand Apollo program workers, scientists at every major university with an astronomy program, researchers at independent labs all over the world) that its existence becomes more farfetched than anything it's trying to "disprove".
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/20/2009 11:09:18 PM
The best argument against the deniers is simply one of statistics. About four hundred thousand people worked on the Apollo program. That is an AWFULLY large number of people to ask to keep a secret that big in a society with open free speech and an active news media (even if the media was smaller back at that time). Plus, powerful enough telescopes can see the landing site.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 07/21/2009 10:06:38 AM
And, given some of the comments I'm seeing on this thread, I think my favorite part of the article is coming to be the part where some dude called Buzz Aldrin a fraud, and Buzz reached back and socked the dude hard in his face. :P
Now THAT, I wish there had been a camera for.
It really doesn't surprise me that Fox decided to run a special promoting negativity, fear, and suspicion. That has become WHAT THEY DO. But the hostility and anger some of you are expressing your paranoia with...well, I can certainly understand why Buzz smacked the *** out of that dude. If I'd taken the time to risk my life on missions where other astronauts died, and I had some self-righteous prick calling me a fraud, I'd probably knock that dude right in the grill too.
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Posted By: empressjenf @ 07/18/2009 12:16:00 AM
Seriously, Mythbusters did an entire episode disproving the main points of the hoax argument, though I think some are just common sense. Of course the flag moved - they were touching the pole! And space is a vacuum, and things are very different in a vacuum, including footprints.
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Posted By: Hisdroogness @ 07/21/2009 9:30:49 AM
Oh yea mythbusters the pinnacle of credibality!!
UM DO YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING ON TV?
well then you deserve everything you get in life!
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