Ahmadinejad’s Nuclear Offer

mkf1-

You got me.  I wrote nazi instead of Jewish.  Am I tapped out now....no takebacks?  Can I make no errors in syntax?

There are volumes of books by Luther which clearly demonstrate his antisemitism in his later years:

"Conversion of the Jews will be the work of God alone operating from within, and not of man working — or rather playing — from without. If these offences be taken away, worse will follow. For they are thus given over by the wrath of God to reprobation, that they may become incorrigible, as Ecclesiastes says, for every one who is incorrigible is rendered worse rather than better by correction. ^[2]"

Your statement about Jews going to overthrow Germany - sounds as if you lifted that from Hitler himself.  Is that your reference?

You comments show more about you than about any kind of actual history.  Do you forget that there are still people alive who lived through the holocaust?  I know them and knew those who past on...both military and concentration camp survivors.  There is too much evidence that Jews were sytematically ghettoized, rounded up, and gassed...specifically for being jews.  There is too much evidence...this is too easy and argument.  But to continue is like wasting time to prove that 1+1=2.  i won't be convinced otherwise, especially not on the internet.  I have seen enough real, physical and live evidence to refute everything about your post.

So just remember, my son.  We're watching you.

Nazism claimed that homosexuals, retarded, mentally sick, Gypsies, Jews and other are not equal to others and should be killed. They did kill them, without relationship to war, wherever they could .
Other victims in WWII, including millions of civilians from many nations, were killed as a result of fighting, destruction and killing in the war
Today, we cannot do anything about changing history, but we can believe and practice equality of people and peace making.
Genocide of any people is recognized as a major global crime. Aggression should be also.

Unoman,

 Sorry to interject your conversation with the prof - but I have to say that undoubtedly the Jews absolutely DID suffer extremely more than any other race under the Nazis (defined by number of killed, and German prosecution of ethnic cleansing policies which specifically targetted Jews over other races).  This is not fabricated, it is knowable and there is a plethora of varying sources all collaborating the same information.  Apart from that, people live to tell the story...people's grandparents, who marched into places like Aushwitz to liberate the them.  As we can see, already too much time has passed, and now everything again is "nebulous"; everyting we said we'd never as a people forget, we are forgetting and going back to basic questions for which already too much information collaborates. It is not a surprise.  Only 30 years later, did the Khmer Rouge do the same thing to their people, later the Bosnian Serbs to theirs (Muslims in that case), and the Rwandans to theirs.  So we forget.  But at least we edcutated and relatives of the living should not accept that such damning and unquestionable evidence turn into "nebulous" during our lifetime.

And now we see post like those from mkf1, wich would have been discarded in past as flatearthers just a decade ago, cause the less knowing to questions to known and the knowable, digging for some conspiracy that might mean the perspective is wrong.  It is not.

Unoman -

In your post, I see 2 subjects: 1. What are causes of antisemtism relating to early 20th century Germany?  2. Why did the Jews leave Europe to settle another region in such high numbers?  On the side, you also wonder why Arabs engage in such antisemitism and why Europe had this culture of anti-semitism.  Let me share my opinion:

1. As for causes of antisemitism in the era of the 3rd Reich:  You stated some businessmen would have been prejudice because of jewish success.  That may be one of the acute reasons, but the chronic reasons speak mainly to Germany's economic position following their humiliating defeat from WWI.  As the Jews of Europe stood apart from their Christian counterparts not only in culture, but by dress and so on, they were an easily identifiable race apart.  I believe as a race, they were proportionately more financially seen as successful over their German counterparts in an era of deep depression and desparation.  Add to that the historic anti-semitism of German culture (which distinctly began under Martin Luther as I wrote before), and an ultra nationalist rising party (all ultranationalists castigate "foreign" looking people and the Jews' probably easily fit that target) who readily absorped this antisemetic history, and you have the catalyst to turn prejudice into discrimination and eventually to violence and mass extermination.

2. As for the Jews leaving Europe (of course they did not all leave Europe):  Before asking this quesiton, you MUST read and understand HOW they did this.  That information is not fabricated because it was told by the one Jewish combat battalion that helped initiate Israel migration as well as the fact that this information correlates with various other sources, like the UK and US.  Secondly, you must understand that from a Jewish perspective, you would not want to raise a family in that region for quite some time, had you experienced the hate, fear, sorrow and death and such an unbelievable scale.  Many migrated to other places like America.  But there is an interesting history as to the 1945 Israeli struggle for independence, and like anything else, it had largely to do with the British Empire (which covered 25% of the globe at one time).  Wikipedia has this concise history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel.  Israeli Prime Minister Ben Gurion pushed hard to create incentives to populate Israel with as many displaced European Jews as possible.  Just look at the current Laws of Israel and how they related to Jews, vs. non-Jews.

You suggest that perhaps the Jews were pushed to move out of Europe.  Perhaps there is something to that.  But why would this have happened?  Why would it have been covered up?  And what about the currently known history appears incomplete that this new information explains? 

As for Arab anti-semitism, I can only posit that this is much different that European anti-semitism in its history ans seems much more of a "sect" hatred the Arabs hold for their neighbors; a nemesis based on religious differences alone.  Apart from that, you can only imagine what impact the Independence of Israel in the middle of Arab states had on the muslim region.  I assume that in itself would have created severe animosity.  If there is more to that history, I am not aware of it.

Unoman -

To be clear, the Jews of Europe were not told to go and migrate to Israel, they actively created it for themselves just at the end of the war.  Read the history of Israel following WWI - it is an almost unbelievable story of resourcefulness (British resources, by the way) and ingenuity.  As for anti-semitism roots: I guess you could go back as far as the 16th Century Martin Luther, whose severe anti-semtism (in his latter years) became imbedded in German culture for years.  Apart from Luther, I believe such European anti-semitism flourished largely because of how culturally un-integrated the Jews were, in a mostly Catholic continent.  Even in the 1930s, they stood out very obviously as a separate culture (dress, practices, etc..), an easy target for an impoverished country looking for someone to pin the blame on.  In the Arab world, they are a Theocracy in the middle of Muslim countries...another dangerous scenario for them.

Great point and awesome comparison.  Mel is about as nutso as Ahmadinejad and probably even more of a fundamentalist.  Go get 'em Mel!  (might even find more Brits to bash in a movie about Iran - somehow?)

Star -

However, a strategic thinking America (while working hard on sanctions and all other preventative actions to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear capability) will have to consider how it will deal with a potentially nuclear Iran.  It is in our best interests to have a plan for this which includes some type of negotiations.  Iran would at that point have the ability to sell nukes to anyone.  We would want to control that.

Unoman -

To be clear, in Germany, publically denying that the Holocaust occurred is similarly treated as other forms of speech in America which are not considered a burden to the idea of "free Speech" (inciting violence, inciting public panic, etc..).  It is well known that approximately 6 million jews were among the total of 12 million killed during the war.  This by far makes them the most singled out race to have been systematically slaughtered.  In fact, specifically for the Jews, under the Nazi Party, a culture was created to blame the Jews for all of Germany's economic problems (remember, after their defeat in WWI and their treatment internationally following, Germany was a dismal place to be, economically).  In fact, the rantings of an old Martin Luther (in his later years, he wrote volumes about the fault of the world's problems lying squarely with the Jewish religion) were publically displayed in government buildings.  Thus, the culture of Germany under the Nazi Party became obsessed with the expulsion of all of its jews.  To be fair, many Germans did not know how this expulsion was being executed - but then again, neither did they want to know.  This type of systematic persecution, collection, and slaughter of jews occurred to no other single race or people on such a massive scale.  Jews were required by law to identify themselves with the star of David, they were forced into segregated neighborhoods (called Ghettos) in Germany (and eventually throughout German occupied Europe), then transported to camps where they were worked until no longer able, then killed. 

Unoman, this is common information, and normally if a peer were to present me with such a question as you present in your post, I would assume such information had been purposely looked over in order to make a political and extreme stand.  But I do not know you nor your background, so I assume you are a younger, or at least less informed (on the subject) person.  There is much information on this subject, and it would be a great aid to your inquisitiveness to dig in, maybe give wikipedia a summary look, then read a bit more to collaborate information - if you are genuinely interested.

In summary - understand the history of jewish persecution under the Nazis and you will understand why it is important not to allow the proliferation of cults or groups (and there are many) who would deny the holocaust publically, giving credence to enter into extreme neo-nazi affiliations, which in no way benefit any society, but rather bring only violent hate crimes (at a minimum).  As you can see today, a populations can easily be made to forget their past.  See many of my posts, attempting to bring such reminders back).  In the case of WWII, forgetting such a past can have consequences that surpass any hopes for freedoms of speech in future.

While I named Star3 as the recipient of my post, I was speaking to both Star3 and Unoman. Thank you both for your most thoughtful responses and for staying with it until someone answered.
R

Unoman, first, let me clarify, that by your very exsitence, you will annoy 40, we all annoy him, so welcome to the club; its not you, personally, its everyone here who annoys 40, he is a negative personality, so we just try tio ignor him. Now, to whomever did not think the killing of Jews was any different from anyone else who died in WW2, let me say, that it was different in that the nazis, led by Hitler, deliberately targeted the Jews in particular for annihilation. Yes, other people did die, but they were not a source of a deliberate attempt to destroy as a group. I don't know of any other people besides Jewish who were in the concentration camps, but thats not to say there weren't, however that fact would not change anything as far as their being the primary target of hate by Hitler and his henchmen, so in that respect, yes their deaths were different. It is ironic that when Hitler was a 21 year old homeless waif on the streets, it was the Jewish community who took him in and gave him a job, encouraged him to paint and sold his art work in their shops, then, years later, that was how he repaid them. It was rumored that his mother was a Jew, but never proven to my knowledge. I was barely born when He was in power in Germnany, and I was fortunate enough to be born in America, but I am of German heritiage, as well as English and Irish, and I read a lot of historical novels.

eddy, thanks for the reminder, yes, we should stiick with the editorial here, and I did touch on it, briefly. I admit I don't have a lot of answers concerning this, more questions than anything, but if it were me in charge if making that decision, I would be very suspicious of their sudden wanting to refresh their relationship with the U.S. Anytime an enemy wants to "re-negotiate", it would be wise to research the reasons behind it. I, quite frankly, don't trust it, but its not my call, so will just have to wait and see if our government agrees with our asessment of the situation or if they will jump at the chance to be "friends" with a questionable country, and, possibly, come to regret it; just hope our government doesn't act in haste. Our politicans were hired to protect the interest of America, not to please the rest of the world, so hope they will remember that.