Actually I could argue that he prolonged the recession. All of that money ended up going to the wrong places and the companies lasted another 2 weeks THEN declared bankruptcy, if they would have done that 2 weeks earlier we would be two weeks ahead and then have a trillion less dollars working against us.
Thanks for Not Being Bush
The Nobel shows Obama is still popular abroad. But it doesn't help much if the U.S. is seen as a banana republic.
Oct 9, 2009
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Posted By: jwan01 @ 10/22/2009 9:40:18 PM
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Posted By: bose @ 10/22/2009 9:33:18 PM
Obama hasnt doesnt anything to help our county in any way along with the trillions dollars in debt. I think it was stupid of the Noble Peace Prize committee to award Obama with the prize. Yes, Bush made problems but hes only one person and everyone makes mistakes. Also, we were only attacked once during bushes terms, and that was before we were in this problem.
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Posted By: fedupwithbullstuff @ 10/18/2009 2:29:53 PM
It's almost becoming shameful to be in such dubious company as some of the other prize winners. The whole thing is a farce.
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/10/2009 1:13:47 AM
Getting rid of Bush/Cheney's disastrous presidency that caused global economic collapse, the U.S. becoming the object of hate of most other countries, unnecessary war in iraq and stopping its policy of torture of prisoners is good enough reason for Obama to deserve a Nobel Peace price.
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Posted By: Pallisor @ 10/10/2009 8:40:54 AM
"Getting rid of Bush/Cheney's disastrous presidency that caused global economic collapse"
Ridiculous. Bush and Cheney did not cause global economic collapse. The the economic mess we're in here was prompted by both parties, including Barney Frank and Chris Dodd of the Democrats. They fought Bush legislation a dozen times since 2003 to curb ridiculous lending practices. Yes, the housing crisis is what began the downfall, and Bush tried time and again, (and McCain once) to stop it. Even up to the end Frank was screaming: "There's nothing wrong!" This is a matter of record.
We were the object of hate of some, not "most" other countries long before Bush took office. And a lot of good it did for Clinton to sweetly accept Al Qaida's repeated slaps in his face and him responding with sweet nothings. He didn't want to make anyone unhappy by going after Al Qaida. He even turned down taking OBL when offered to him. He watched during his entire presidency as Hussein flipped him off, and all during that time Hussien was corrupting the UN. Clinton simply sat back for eight years as a colossal, third world fool made an even bigger fool out of him and the UN. Clinton could not or would not address these problems diplomatically or militarily, so he passed these ever growing problems on to Bush and you wanted him to do the same. Sorry you didn't get your way.
The water boarding of three murderers to protect against future attacks worked. The three terrorists gave information that halted thirty plus attacks which saved lives, and the proof is we haven't had any on our homeland in over eight years. As with sleep deprivation, not everyone sees WB as torture. The terrorists should have thought about this before killing 3000 innocent Americans. But you protectionists can now have your way. Terrorists we know have information can now be only asked politely if they will give it to us. Good luck with that.
I am happy Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize and that he didn't decline it, however the reality is he was nominated only 12 days after taking office. This indicated he had achieved something quite diplomatically astounding in those twelve days. However I don't think he realized he had been nominated as he was busy unpacking boxes and naming his dog. The point is the committee normally waits until a person's efforts take root (like Nelson Mandella or Mother Teresa) before bestowing this prestigious honor on them. But once again, I am happy a sitting president has received the award.-
Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/14/2009 9:10:51 PM
Pallisor - Using Barney and Dodds as an excuse for Bush/Cheney's economic management does not help your argument. It will only shows how naive, incompetent and impotent Bush and Cheney if we will accept your thesis that these rank-and-file congressmen are the ones running the economy when the Bush/Cheney/Paulson jokers are slept at the wheel?
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Posted By: star3 @ 10/17/2009 8:10:15 PM
Oh, hogwash! Find a new whine, that one is growing fungus, and has absolutely no validity.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/14/2009 9:40:08 PM
Apolitical,
Bush and Cheney are no where around. But Dodd and Frank are still weaving their webs, just as they have always done. Barney is up to his old tricks trying to get Fannie and Freddie to ease up their standards for condo loans. Hey Barney, isn't this where we came in in the mortgage crisis.
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/15/2009 4:38:46 PM
donald - You serious? Easing up on mortgage requirement is all over the place -- not just Fannie and Freddie -- simply because lenders can unload their risks to investors under securitized bonds. The Bush administration is caught sleeping at the wheel and blind as a bat that a humongous crisis is about to unfold.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/15/2009 4:50:12 PM
Apolitical:donald - You serious? Easing up on mortgage requirement is all over the place -- not just Fannie and Freddie -- simply because lenders can unload their risks to investors under securitized bonds. The Bush administration is caught sleeping at the wheel and blind as a bat that a humongous crisis is about to unfold.-------------------------------------------------------------
Nice try, Apolitical, but no cigar. The Bush administration tried to rein in Fannie and Freddie in 2002. Dodd and Frank ran interference for their buddies at Fannie and Freddie and nothing was done until the wheels came off. Dodd and Frank's fingerprints are all over this mortgage crisis.
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/16/2009 1:27:39 AM
donald - I'll be repeating 40Yr's questions to you that you have not yet answered. What did Dodd and Barney do that caused the mortgage crisis? And our questions on why Bush's incompetence and impotence that Dodd and Barney prevailed on the executive branch (assuming without admitting Barney and Dodd actually did something contributing to the crisis? Let me add one more fact, Fannie and Freddie are not the only players in the mortgage market.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/16/2009 9:52:54 AM
Apolitical,
I would explain, but your are obviously to dense to understand. Try watching the C-Span coverage of the 2003 committee hearing with Treasury Secretary, John Snow. Maybe then it will sink into your thick head. Otherwise, don't waste my time. If you can't keep up, you will be left behind.
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/16/2009 12:32:59 PM
donadl - How would a Treasury testimony prove anything? Everyone here had the same questions and disputing your lies.
Just answer the dang questions dummy!-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/16/2009 6:35:11 PM
Apolitical.
You obviously missed the part where your boy Barney was flacking for Fannie and Freddie. Did you fall asleep?
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/14/2009 10:13:42 PM
Precisely. No one ever says what they did. What authority they had. This is just an extension of all those anonymous emails that got circulated, when the economy tanked, that Franks, Dodd and Obama were the top three recipients of FNMA campaign donations. The emails that never said that McC was 4th on that list, or that Rick Davis was paid millions to lobby Rs only against regulation, or that Davis was receiving tens of thousands per month even while he was McC's campaign manager.
I was curious why it was there was so much emphasis when that email campain started. We still hear the echoes. But no one ever explains what those guys did or how they did it.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/15/2009 3:47:24 PM
40Year.R,
You are hysterical. Your explanation for Obama, Frank, and Dodd being on the payroll of Fannie and Freddie is that McCain was a lower paid employee. Face it, your guys were on the take and we can thank them for the mortgage crisis. If you want to blame McCain too, be my guest.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/15/2009 4:04:55 PM
My questions remain. What authority did Franks and Dodd have over Fannie or Freddie? What did they do to cause our economy collapse?
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/15/2009 4:45:32 PM
40Year.R:My questions remain. What authority did Franks and Dodd have over Fannie or Freddie? What did they do to cause our economy collapse?-----------------------------------------------------------
They ran interference for Fannie and Freddie in Congress, keeping regulators and reformers at bay.
www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/23617.html See Barney flacking for Fannie and Freddie in 2003.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/15/2009 5:06:14 PM
Support. Don't just say it.
So... they somehow stymied, overruled, the executive branch?
Don't just give me ultra slogans and myths. Give facts.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/15/2009 10:50:39 PM
40Year.R:Support. Don't just say it. So... they somehow stymied, overruled, the executive branch?Don't just give me ultra slogans and myths. Give facts.---------------------------------------------------------------
What are you thick? I gave you the link to C-Span where you can watch Barney flacking for Fannie and Freddie in a congressional hearing.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/14/2009 10:09:09 PM
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Posted By: star3 @ 10/17/2009 8:04:50 PM
Amen! Saw a great poster of Bush, with a smile, and a wave, which asked: "MISS ME YET?" Was thinking of buying some sticky back printer paper and making a bumper sticker of it.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:34:20 AM
Are you even aware that the Taliban was furious with al-Qaeda for bringing the wrath of God down upon their country? Are you aware that we more or less beat them in two weeks then started giving it all back?
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Posted By: violinsforAvalon @ 10/10/2009 11:58:51 AM
Vigilance-
If the Taliban tribe was furious with Al Qaeda as you say, why didn't the Taliban run Al Qaeda out of Afghan as they should have? Instead, they let them use their country for terrorist training camps! Now then, who was really responsible for bringing that wrath upon Afghan?
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 12:49:16 PM
READ the *** MAGAZINE if you want to post here! It was the cover story last month! Go find it! "The Taliban In Their Own Words!"
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 12:54:17 PM
Vigilance,
And of course the Taliban would never lie. They said it in Newsweek, so it must be TRUE!. Vigilance your naivete is a joy to behold.-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 1:19:45 PM
Did you read it? Do you have any idea what I'm talking about or are you pulling a Glenn Beck where the hole in your ass just won't seem to close up enough for you to stop talking?
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 1:35:42 PM
vigilance,
Temper, temper. Wouldn't want you to blow a gasket. Now tell me, what is it that you found to be so credible about the Taliban's story?-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 7:32:47 PM
Every facet of its primary source material compared to the usual bloated analysis of fundamentalist-Christian allied neoconservatives who would prefer to "translate" history for me or "tell me what's really going on"? How are those "liberal translations" of Hannity's doing these days?
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 7:50:06 PM
Vigilance:Every facet of its primary source material compared to the usual bloated analysis of fundamentalist-Christian allied neoconservatives who would prefer to "translate" history for me or "tell me what's really going on"? How are those "liberal translations" of Hannity's doing these days?-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lie's a lie, even if you hear it first hand, direct from the liars mouth.
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Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/10/2009 10:02:15 PM
donald. Vigilance believes the Taliban - not neo-conservatives. You might as well stop trying to reason with him and just start having fun.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 3:51:44 AM
bjsassy:donald. Vigilance believes the Taliban - not neo-conservatives. You might as well stop trying to reason with him and just start having fun.--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vigilance is still young. He is just going through a phase. He likes to say things to shock his elders. He'll grow out of it.
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Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/11/2009 10:09:17 PM
donald. I really like your style. You remind me of someone else that used to post here. You have the same wicked sense of humor. Hmmm.
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/11/2009 11:26:11 PM
sassy - That's because Donald is also Paulejb. As you might have noticed, paulejb vanished from Newsweek for fomenting too many made up facts and plagiarizing Rush by using his stupid opinion as his own. But he was easily exposed as his style is so trashy that its just like running an idiot to the Xerox machine. And what you get, a duplicate of an idiot.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/12/2009 7:32:38 AM
Apolitical:sassy - That's because Donald is also Paulejb. As you might have noticed, paulejb vanished from Newsweek for fomenting too many made up facts and plagiarizing Rush by using his stupid opinion as his own. But he was easily exposed as his style is so trashy that its just like running an idiot to the Xerox machine. And what you get, a duplicate of an idiot.------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really? And you know this how? Insider information? Ouija Board? Voices in your head?
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/12/2009 1:29:53 PM
donald - Read my lips. If you clone an idiot like paulejb, you'll get the same idiot donald. That's an incontrovertible logical statement.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/12/2009 3:05:07 PM
Apolitical:donald - Read my lips. If you clone an idiot like paulejb, you'll get the same idiot donald. That's an incontrovertible logical statement.------------------------------------------------------------------
Listening to those forces in your head again, Apolitical? Are you hearing paulejb in your head too? Does he haunt your dreams?
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/12/2009 6:14:18 PM
"Are you hearing paulejb in your head too?"
Paul got on the head not in the head if you follow my drift.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 6:29:23 AM
No Lothario, you have drifted off to far for us to follow you. Perhaps we can catch you the next time you pass through this galaxy. Enjoy your trip.
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Posted By: 40YearConservative @ 10/13/2009 6:33:47 AM
Donald, looks like you've latched on to a real "space cadet."
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 6:46:57 AM
40YearConservative:Donald, looks like you've latched on to a real "space cadet."----------------------------------------------------------
And there are so many of them. It's like there is an assembly line somewhere turning out dull witted twerps.
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Posted By: 40YearConservative @ 10/13/2009 6:49:46 AM
Donald, I believe the assembly line is at the Harvard School of Law- Obama, Frank, ....
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Posted By: Just_Ray @ 10/15/2009 12:37:21 PM
40YearCon are you a disgruntled minion? Things are slow everywhere, even the minion mistress is cutting back.
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/13/2009 10:17:15 AM
You're a right wing drone spewing out the hate that Boss Rush and Glenn Beck have brainwashed you into believing. So pathetic and empty that you had to steal another poster's idea for a screen name, Your views, like your screen name, is just something you've heard and are just repeating. You are incapable of having your own views or thoughts. You have only what you can steal and repeat from others. Pathetic little right wing, birther kook.
Paulejb/Donald has 'latched' on to me. I expect you/him to start with the fishing stories soon.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 11:02:58 AM
Loathario,
Blah, blah, blah. Heard it all before. You bring nothing new to the table. Can't you twits come up with some new material. I mean BORING!
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/13/2009 11:13:23 AM
What is boring is your hover round riding a$$. Shove it you old crusty, birther fool.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 7:48:32 AM
40YearConservative:Donald, I believe the assembly line is at the Harvard School of Law- Obama, Frank, ....----------------------------------------------------
Too obvious. It would have to be someplace more obscure. Columbia maybe? Or how about UC Berkeley?
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/13/2009 9:45:58 AM
What a surprise, the fake name 40YearConservative, that you created to mock someone, and yourself is conversing. Pathetic Paulejb, really pathetic. Can we expect more adventures at the fish market?
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 11:00:34 AM
Lothario:What a surprise, the fake name 40YearConservative, that you created to mock someone, and yourself is conversing. Pathetic Paulejb, really pathetic. Can we expect more adventures at the fish market?------------------------------------------------------------------
It is hysterical when a fool who is pretentious enough to call himself "Lothario" criticizes another's screen name. Somehow I doubt that the females here are in any danger of being seduced by you. As a matter of fact, Loathario might be more convincing.
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/13/2009 11:11:57 AM
That's rich coming from a man that was told by Newsweek that he is not welcome, but keeps coming back uninvited. Tell us Paulejb about fishing trips and what you do with all those fish.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 12:59:26 PM
Loathsome,
You just get dumber by the minute. Are you taking stupid pills? You might want to check the dosage.
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/13/2009 1:03:46 PM
You are the sorriest, racist ever. Not only do you hate black people, but anyone that can read. Look at all the filth you posted as Paulejb concerning gay sex and fish.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 1:13:03 PM
Lothario:You are the sorriest, racist ever. Not only do you hate black people, but anyone that can read. Look at all the filth you posted as Paulejb concerning gay sex and fish.-----------------------------------------------------------
Tell us, Loathsome, how do you know this? Do you have something to back this us up, or is it all in your demented mind?
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/13/2009 2:06:38 PM
Low life coward. So typical of your gutless ilk, pretend not to be Paulejb just like you are pretending to be a military expert. Pathetic little coward. EVERYBODY knows who you are. Racist piece of crap. Hide your head in shame. Go on and hide.
Now that you have been beaten to a pulp you are going to cry and say that isn't you. Why doesn't that surprise me that you would have no honor or no character.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 2:46:42 PM
Loathsome,
Are you off your meds? You seem to be out of control? Was it something I said that has you chewing the carpets?
You really have to get a handle on yourself, Loathsome. If you don't you will stroke out.
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/13/2009 3:22:23 PM
*yawn*
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/13/2009 1:38:02 AM
donald - Yes, I listen to my head. Unlike you who is ruled by and listening to your behind.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 6:37:02 AM
Apolitical:donald - Yes, I listen to my head. Unlike you who is ruled by and listening to your behind.--------------------------------------------------------------
Not your head, silly. The voices in your head. You know, the ones that tell you to say stupid things.
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Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/12/2009 10:57:38 AM
There you go again, apolitical. You are making up your own facts again! Has Newsweek banned you from their comments section for getting all of your information from Olbermann?
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/12/2009 1:28:24 PM
sassy - I think the rule of counter-argument is not just to make an assertion but dispute it with facts. Most non-right wing nut posters around here concluded that donald and paulejb (who mysteriously vanished into thin air perhaps swallowed by his own stupidity) writes and argued moronically like a true clone of each other.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/12/2009 7:28:39 AM
bjsassy:donald. I really like your style. You remind me of someone else that used to post here. You have the same wicked sense of humor. Hmmm.------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, thank you, BJ. That was very kind of you to say.
Everyone keeps telling me that I remind them of someone else. I am not sure if I should be flattered or insulted.
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/13/2009 1:40:11 AM
donald - Let me guess. They both borrow opinions from Rush and Glenn Beck. Everyone finds it idiotic and right-wing nuts call it "wicked sense of humor".
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 6:43:58 AM
Apolitical:donald - Let me guess. They both borrow opinions from Rush and Glenn Beck. Everyone finds it idiotic and right-wing nuts call it "wicked sense of humor".------------------------------------------------------
Being a humorless twit prevents you from discerning wit when you see it. All you recognize is the same old, tiresome, left wing drivel being dispensed by your masters. Tweaking your superstitions almost seems unfair. In a battle of wits, you are unarmed.
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/14/2009 2:07:50 AM
donald - You need Sassy to validate you. Otherwise you keep on commending yourself with your "wit". The wit that you call yourself is total idiocy to us. I bet you have a mirror in every wall of your room.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/14/2009 11:15:05 AM
Apolitical:donald - You need Sassy to validate you. Otherwise you keep on commending yourself with your "wit". The wit that you call yourself is total idiocy to us. I bet you have a mirror in every wall of your room.-------------------------------------------------------------------
Do I detect a note of jealousy, Apolitical? Are you scarred by my wit and wisdom? Do you feel ineffectual when I am around? Too bad, you will just have to learn to live with your inadequacies.
Who is "us?" Are there more of you at home?
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/14/2009 12:58:24 PM
donald - Extremely jealous that you and sassy had this thang going on. I want to call it mutual admiration but you have not reciprocated Sassy with a compliment. You just keep on complimenting yourself and your so-called "wit". Hey, that deserves a multiple LOLs.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/14/2009 1:55:37 PM
Apolitical:donald - Extremely jealous that you and sassy had this thang going on. I want to call it mutual admiration but you have not reciprocated Sassy with a compliment. You just keep on complimenting yourself and your so-called "wit". Hey, that deserves a multiple LOLs.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are wrong as always, Apolitical. I have nothing but admiration for BJSassy's knowledge and wit. She has a fine sense of humor which escapes the humorless leftists that inhabit these boards. You could use a little work on your sense of humor, Apolitical. It seems to have gotten rust covered from lack of use.
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/14/2009 2:58:39 PM
donald - And I have to kick your sorry a$$ for you to reciprocate to Sassy. Dang, you are not even slightly creative. You just copied what Sassy said to you and take it as your own. So why were you kicked out as Paulejb by Newsweek? Plagiarism or stupidity?
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/14/2009 3:03:47 PM
Apolitical:"So why were you kicked out as Paulejb by Newsweek? Plagiarism or stupidity?"
No, it was fish buggery. Paulejb's idea of foreplay is baiting a hook.
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Posted By: 40YearConservative @ 10/14/2009 6:23:24 PM
Large mouth bass still going blah, blah, blah. Damn, Son! Don't you have something constructive to do? Go fishing or something. Maybe you'll catch something.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/14/2009 9:42:03 PM
40YearConservative:Large mouth bass still going blah, blah, blah. Damn, Son! Don't you have something constructive to do? Go fishing or something. Maybe you'll catch something.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loathsome is just looking for attention. Ignore him and he will crawl back under his rock.
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/15/2009 9:22:24 AM
Paulejb hates it when someone knocks him off message, he loses his place on his list of talking points. Anyone that is real threat he ignores because he is a coward and a sexual pervert.
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/15/2009 8:52:48 AM
Racist Paulejb,
We missed you yesterday. What happened? Did the neighborhood kids trap you on the front porch again?
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/15/2009 8:49:38 AM
Don't cry 40YearConvict, the parole board meets again soon.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/14/2009 3:12:51 PM
Apolitical,
I don't think so. I doubt that you could even kick your own ass. You are the one legged man in an ass-kicking contest.
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/14/2009 4:27:28 PM
Speaking of a$$
lickingkicking, I bet you're a St. Louis Rams fan eh Paulejb?
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/14/2009 2:47:55 PM
Paulejb the letch:"She has a fine sense of humor which escapes the humorless leftists that inhabit these boards."
That explains it, she's a woman.
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/14/2009 1:04:24 PM
Only Paulejb thinks he has 'wit'. Don't pay him any mind, the odor from his soiled depends has him loopy, more so than normal. Sassy is an hanger on from Donald's days as Paulejb. One would think Paulejb would at least give Sassy a reach around.
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/14/2009 11:24:53 AM
Paulejb:"Do you feel ineffectual when I am around?"
No poop pants racist Paulejb, one feels the need for a shower and a large can of air freshener when you are around. Why don't you charge up the battery on your hover round and try going through a car wash or something. Stop stinking up the place.
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/11/2009 11:19:36 PM
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/11/2009 9:34:36 AM
I will indeed believe the Taliban over neoconservatives. I've seen more evidence of honesty. :P The Taliban are vicious Islamic killers and they'll make no bones about telling you so. Neoconservatives, however, have been much more the kind to preach peace and practice war. So who should I believe?
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Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/11/2009 10:07:38 PM
Vigilance. I sense bitterness in you. You admire the Taliban and hate the conservatives. You are even left of Senator Dianne Feinstein. I didn't think that was possible, but she is all for wiping the scum off the face of the earth. Go Dianne.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 2:12:27 PM
Vigilance:I will indeed believe the Taliban over neoconservatives. I've seen more evidence of honesty. :P The Taliban are vicious Islamic killers and they'll make no bones about telling you so. Neoconservatives, however, have been much more the kind to preach peace and practice war. So who should I believe?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Go with the Taliban, Vigilance. The left wing crowd is more comfortable with them than they are with neo-Cons. As a matter of fact, there has never been an enemy of this country for which the left did not apologize.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/11/2009 12:43:09 AM
So, that reponse, tells me you didn't like Vig's answer.
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Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/12/2009 10:59:19 AM
chris. Do you believe that the Taliban are truth tellers?
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/12/2009 8:15:02 PM
bj,
I'm not in the habit of listening to quotes from the Taliban. I am pretty sure that they are a nasty bunch. Not thinking of joining them. Also, I believe there are those who use the word "Taliban" because it' provides us with one more concrete objective to hate. So, here lies America with a mass of pre-angered citizens who were already hating for every conceivable reason. They've just got one more target. It pleases the pundits and everybody who is already fired up. It's a word that adds fuel to the already smoldering fire and pushes all the right buttons. No, I'm not a fan of the Taliban or any other entity that kills. Sorry, couldn't come up with a one sentence answer.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 3:05:52 AM
chris s.:So, that reponse, tells me you didn't like Vig's answer.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well he is using Newsweek as a primary source. I would say that would fall under the heading of delusional. What's your guess?
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Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/10/2009 3:53:38 PM
Vigilance. The Taliban committed ethnic genocide during their rule over Afghanistan. They put thousands of Uzbek, Tajik and Hazara women and children in concentration camps and killed their men. They displaced hundreds of thousands of people from their homes and villages. The Taliban implemented a gender apartheid program that resulted in starvation and disease of thousands of children because their mothers were not allowed to work. Children became beggars in the street or sold their bodies. Girls as young as nine were forced into marriage to Taliban militia. Girls were not allowed to attend school and, even today, they are in danger of getting acid thrown on their face for daring to get an education. The Taliban regularly stoned people to death or shot women execution style during a soccer game. They forged an alliance with Osama Bin Laden and the Al Qaeda.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 9:40:51 PM
Yup.
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Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/10/2009 9:59:10 PM
Of course you do.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/11/2009 9:39:21 AM
I do! If any of you Peace Prize winners (oh snaps) had bothered to read the Taliban article I'm talking about, you would understand why. The Taliban had just managed to establish their Islamic Republic in Afghanistan. They'd given al-Qaeda free run of certain parts of the country, but did not expect al-Qaeda to pull anything as showy and destructive as 9/11. As soon as they got their little Islamic hardliner thing going, al-Qaeda brought the wrath of God right down on their heads. We won that war in two weeks...then our military started acting like corrupt cops under Bush and Wolfowitz and Cheney and the other men so famous in these times for human cruelty. That turned Afghani citizens against us, and they have been more and more going back to support the Taliban instead.
Now, what does it say about us that a greay many Afghani citizens prefer Taliban government to Karzai's U.S.-backed effort?
Really, "sassy", how awful do you have to be to drive people BACK into the arms of Islamic warlords just so they can get away from you?-
Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/11/2009 10:13:42 PM
Obviously, you are using Newsweek as your primary source of information. Study up on the Taliban, please. It is an eye opener. I found them worse than the Nazis. Fortunately, the Taliban do not have the same power to wage global war the way the Nazis did, but they are even more destructive.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 10:52:05 AM
Man, I am sick of your self-centered paranoia. You project suspicion onto countries where the hate was not there. Waterboarding DOESN'T work. Torture took us to war in Iraq on false information. In my opinion, you have some angry ghosts floating around the military policy of the last eight years.
I would give my life to stop you and the other vicious, dull, "mess with the bull and you get the horns" advocates of brutal violence and war from doing it anymore. We just lost JAPAN as an ally because of the horseshit you espouse. JAPAN!!!!! We've had them as an ally since the 1950s!!!!!-
Posted By: Pallisor @ 10/10/2009 11:04:21 AM
And I'm sick of your bs as well. You continually protect and go to bat for the terrorists here with your "they had a reason" nonsense. Yeah right. Lee Harvey Oswald had a "reason" for killing JFK. Yes, WB worked. The three perps sprang with information that stopped future attacks. None in eight years, remember? Or are you going to be ignorant enough to tell me they just haven't wanted to attack us after doing so repeatedly?
"Torture took us into Iraq?" Got a credible link for that?
You would give your life to keep the terrorists whom you believe had a reason for killing 3000 Americans? Now that's real horseshit. But go ahead. You won't be missed.-
Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/11/2009 1:19:08 AM
Pallisor - There is a basic premise in logic that you cannot prove the negative. Therefore, not having an attack did not prove that Bush/Cheney prevented one. There are well published account of attack in Madrid and London that have been pre-empted but I doubt if it was to Bush/Cheney's credit. There is another other attempts this year in Denver and New York but it was Obama who is the president this time around.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:18:13 AM
I "go to bat" for terrorists because there is something very, very wrong about the wars of the last eight years that I can't put my finger on. And I do not ally with torturers. Now that Obama has repudiated torture, I can ally with my nation again.
Now let's be real about something here. A lot of people have been scowling and shaking their hands at capitalism lately - sort of a "let's burn their empire around their ears" thing. Bin Laden tried that, and he doesn't even get credit for it - as he shouldn't, because it was a violent, evil, murderous act that killed thousands of innocents. I get sick of people who can't see past the 3000 to note the million or do Americans who die of preventable disease in this country, mostly self-inflicted - stroke, heart attack, etc. But no, no, let them die until we kill the Muslims. Because we have to kill the Muslims. We hate them. We didn't do anything to deserve this!!!!....only we did. We've been alternately killing and ignoring Middle Easterners for nigh unto sixty years, ever since the oil-backed coup in Iran that deposed their only true democratically elected government. This was not an unprovoked conflict. I have said it again and again - learn the history of U.S.-Middle Eastern relations since 1948. You may come to different conclusions than me but you will be informed. Or do you support the policy efforts that ousted Mossadegh in Iran in 1948? Are you competent to discuss this with me? Or are you just going to hold up the 3000 when the reality is that tens of thousands more die every day for reasons we could prevent if we set down the vicious revenge for a minute?-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:23:26 AM
Actually, it's probably thousands, not tens of thousands, in America anyway. It is worth noting, however, that the number of Americans dying every day from preventable disease is comparable to the entire 9/11 death toll.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:20:45 AM
""Torture took us into Iraq?" Got a credible link for that?"
I will look for the article, which is a Newsweek from the last year that describes secret extradition of a suspect to a Libyan U.S.-backed prison, I believe, in which the terror suspect was locked in a box smaller than a living coffin for 24 hours, then was released and told a bunch of stuff about Iraq that was used as part of the justification for the Iraq War that later turned out to be heavily exaggerated. You may feel free to search yourself, it will be educational.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 10:57:19 AM
How long have you gone without sleep before? A day? Sleep deprivation past five or sick days can sicken and kill. Enough sleep deprivation WILL kill you. I have no faith in the ability of most torture advocates to endure any of the policies they propose, for all they believe themselves "tough".
Tell you what, Pallisor. Let's pull a Hitchens. I will waterboard you for a half hour. Then you do me. Then we'll publish a photo essay about whether or not we support the policies.
Who knows? Maybe I might come to like being waterboarded and end up supporting the policy. That's the kind of soulless *** *I* am. Might make me a torture advocate. I think you might *** out REAL fast. I'm happy you're happy for Obama but your support for torture will ruin our country financially, militarily and otherwise.-
Posted By: Pallisor @ 10/10/2009 11:32:07 AM
"I will waterboard you for a half hour. Then you do me."
Not needed for several reasons. First, the average is 8 to 14 seconds. Second, why would anyone one want to be waterboaded, especially if they're not implicated in mass murder? This idea of yours that we should is insane. I already know it's uncomfortable. Also, you never mention the fact that had the criminal terrorists not come over here and murdered thousands of innocent Americans in the first place, they would not have had to go through any of this. You really miss the boat on this one.
And I don't support torture, which includes sawing off heads, gouging out eyeballs, burning, electrocution, beating to death, hanging, or breaking bones. There is a huge line between that and gently kissing them on the cheek and pleading for an answer to your question, which by the way is all we can do now. I would think you would be dancing in the streets for the people you're championing?-
Posted By: chris s. @ 10/10/2009 4:48:34 PM
Bt all means, let's sermonize that America's plan for the world is freedom and democracy. At the very first confrontation with the enemy let's resort to torture. The perfect alignment of hypocrisy, we so frequently encounter, with the neocon pontificators, who are sooo practiced in identifying evil in others. It's not ok to point to the monstrous conduct of others as an excuse for our own, that is to say, when we claim we have the right to torture because others torture. Then we deliver to our enemies the power to convert us into terrorist thugs, as well.
The steps to perdition are just that-steps, one at a time, downward. How can anyone excuse torture, under any circumstance, particularly in a foreign war in which the purported goal is to establish a democracy? Torture and democracy are, obviously, incompatible. A true democracy can only be the product of enlightened minds. Torture is derived from the most base, despicable dregs of a diseased, inhuman soul. Think Manson or Hitler!-
Posted By: Pallisor @ 10/10/2009 6:17:54 PM
Chris, I don't excuse torture. As I've said here with you and others here, we disagree on what actually is torture. When we gouge out their eyes, break their bones, electrocute them or saw their heads off with a machete, I will agree with you. However, I don't believe tough interrogation techniques like waterboarding and sleep deprivation rank anywhere near those atrocities. You and I will always differ here.
You are free to coddle and protect the three murdering bastards that engineered three thousand American deaths from any discomfort. I, on the other hand, will get tough with them when I know to obtain (as we certainly did) vital information that will prevent another 9/11 that they won't give up any other way.
Once again, you're free to trade American lives for that. I, am not. Before you say it, no, we don't need to go any further. The relatively mild techniques of WB and sleep deprivation got the answers we needed.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/11/2009 1:02:18 AM
They may not rank near eye gouging,so this is a battle of degrees. Which torture is worse than the other? Have you heard? Torture doesn't work! Deprive me of sleep and I will tell you who really killed Jimmy Hoffa. Although, i don't have the foggiest. Hannity also thought water-boarding isn't torture. He agreed to do it for charity. When push came to shove he bailed. Why do you think that is? Talk is cheap.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 9:42:13 PM
"Chris, I don't excuse torture. As I've said here with you and others here, we disagree on what actually is torture. .. I don't believe tough interrogation techniques like waterboarding ... rank anywhere near those atrocities."
You see, I just define myself out of the problem... You see.
Doesn't matter what the Geneva Conventions mean. Doesn't matter that Japanese were prosecuted for war crimes for waterboarding, or if Americans were prosecuted for doing the same thing in Vietnam.
Doesn't matter if McCain, Graham and Barr (those terrorist coddlers!) disgree.
I just create my own personal definition, and then I declare that "I don't excuse torture" while I'm doing just that. You see?
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/11/2009 12:51:53 AM
Pallisor - CIA owns manual and FBI's findings showed torture only elicit false confessions. There is a current joke in the investigating community where interrogators are being deployed by those lazy and dumb. I don't know about kissing but the FBI nursing Abu Zabaydah from fever with iced water made him cooperate with the FBI with a ton of information specially about Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11. And once CIA started its harsh (waterboarding) interrogation, Abu Zabaydah shut down and became uncooperative.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:52:12 AM
Serious. I have a masochist inside of me. Let's both get waterboarded and see who breaks. I bet you I last longer than you would. I get tired of the modern implication that hardcore Dems or liberals are "weaklings" or similar. FDR commanded us in WWII. I signed up for the military but was rejected due to bipolar disorder - doesn't mean anything about my courage, which is deep and vast. Let's go get waterboarded and then you talk to me about "torture", since out of the two of us, you seem to fall down more on the "sadist" side of things.
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Posted By: Pallisor @ 10/10/2009 12:37:38 PM
"Serious. I have a masochist inside of me. Let's both get waterboarded and see who breaks."
If you're that much of a masochist, you shouldn't be griping about these murderers getting waterboarded. But this isn't about that. All these months of reading your posts, you appear to actually believe the terrorists had good reason to come over here and kill thousands of Americans, and that 3000 is a drop in the bucket to what they have lost to what you determine is exactly our fault. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I've read posts from you where you believe we would have a long way to go in catching up with them. IMO, anyone living in America that thinks the terrorists were justified by cowardly killing thousands of Americans should not be living here, but rather with those who better suit their values.-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 12:49:57 PM
Then come kick me out. I'll toss you through a window. You have a lot to learn about the larger Arab-Israeli conflict and our role in it.
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Posted By: Pallisor @ 10/10/2009 12:30:22 PM
"had the criminal terrorists not come over here and murdered thousands of innocent Americans in the first place, they would not have had to go through any of this."
That's an accurate, true statement.
"You really miss the boat on this one."
Pretty obvious. If they didn't do the crime..... -
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:53:20 AM
"criminal terrorists not come over here and murdered thousands of innocent Americans"
You are one of the biggest idiots on these boards on this subject, and you're usually smarter than that. -
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:50:17 AM
Pallisor, go torturing more and I just might. Do it. I'm sorry you're one of those cowards who insists our torture policy really wasn't. What "boat" did I miss? Did you do anything about reading about that Mossadegh coup I mentioned?
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/10/2009 2:01:38 PM
Pallisor -
"Ridiculous. Bush and Cheney did not cause global economic collapse. The the economic mess we're in here was prompted by both parties, including Barney Frank and Chris Dodd of the Democrats."
One good reason why you should think before you write. This excuse makes Bush/Cheney more incompetent and impotent that they really are that the more powerful executive branch can't even prevail upon the rank-and-file Congressmen.
"And a lot of good it did for Clinton to sweetly accept Al Qaida's repeated slaps in his face and him responding with sweet nothings. He didn't want to make anyone unhappy by going after Al Qaida."
That's pure revisionist history. It was Clinton who draw up a comprehensive battle plan to go against Al Queda in Afghanistan after the USS Cole bombing. And it was Bush/Cheney stupidity to go after Al Queda in Iraq when their presence is even unknown in the area before the U.S. invaded the country.
"The water boarding of three murderers to protect against future attacks worked."
Wow this is a stretch and contrary to ex-FBI Soufan's testimony to the Senate that Abu Zabaydah had been cooperating with the FBI through traditional interrogation techniques and had already given them all the useful information and actually clammed up when CIA stepped in and started torturing him. -
Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/10/2009 1:22:52 PM
Pailsor -
"Ridiculous. Bush and Cheney did not cause global economic collapse. The the economic mess we're in here was prompted by both parties, including Barney Frank and Chris Dodd of the Democrats."
The perils of not thinking what you write. With this statement, you made Bush/Cheney looks more incompetent and impotent than they really are. You made the most powerful branch appears like some helpless kids who can't even prevail against rank-and-file Congressmen.
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Posted By: star3 @ 10/17/2009 7:54:18 PM
No, that is NOT a good reason, and he would not have been given it for such ridiculeous nonsense, since he did not accomplish that, anyway, so, something more has to be the reason, and what difference does it make, anyway, if they want to give a hunk of medal or paper, or whatever to him, so what? What we need to be concentrating on is a shield of armor against his moronic ideas concerning "change"; some change, sometimes is good, but what he is proposing is bordering on treason, so unless we fight this unorthodox "change", then we will deserve the results, which will not be pleasant, and there will be fewer citizens of America, because many will leave for a more civilized country, with a more sensible leader. And we're not speaking health care, which is bad enough, but we can see the handwritting on the wall concerning other changes he has in the back of his mind, so if he is still in come 2010, we won't be, but will find a more suitable place to live. The type of society he is trying to put in place is one which sounds good in theory, but will not work in reality, as has been proven. He wants to bring us down, not build us up, so if it continues, then he will find himself alone in the effort, with possibly a few hangers on, and the effort will go the way of others who have tried to set up a socialist type government, which is just another word for communist---it will fail. Utopia will never be found on planet Earth until the one who created the planet and all in it comes to do so; when you're dealing with humans, you should never expect them to all be willing to work their share for the benefits received; why should they when they will get it free anyway from the government, and that is why communisum has never been a success and never will be. Get your heads out of the clouds, and put the pipe down, because your dreams of granduer are going up in the drug filled smoke which is causing the cloud around your head, and fogging your mind. Come back down to reality. This is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! Maybe your took a wrong turn back there at the corner of Freedom Ave. & Radical Road, because we, here in our country, are not in agreement with your policies, but will be willing to give you a map to where your ideas are already in effect, although you may find the citizens a bit cool to your arrival, they will show you to your room there, and let the leader know you are one of them, so maybe you'll feel more at home. Have a fun trip, enjoy your attempts at "change" there, but as for us, here in the U.S.A.---no thanks.
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Posted By: star3 @ 10/17/2009 1:04:14 AM
Many of us do not understand why the nobel peace prize was given to Obama; it's not resentment, it's honest puzzlement. I mean, aren't you suppose to actually do something to promote peace in order to be awarded that? But, then we, also, do not understand his having authority to take over General Motors and Chrysler; why didn't both those companies tell him to buzz off, since they were private compaines; there has to be more to this than we have been told. He is president, not a king, for Heaven's sake, so somebody should remind him his authority stops at the voting box soon, unless he remembers he is working for us, not the other way around, and we can jolly well revise anything he sets up with one big swipe if we don't like it.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/17/2009 1:13:24 AM
Star,
The Nobel Committee originally was opposed to giving the award to Obama. I wonder what the inducements were to get them to change their minds.
www.washingtontimes.com/.../nobel-committee-originally-split-obama/
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Posted By: TheRightGuy @ 10/17/2009 2:34:17 PM
I don't know. Are any of our new czars from Sweden?
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Posted By: boom shaka @ 10/17/2009 11:05:35 AM
"I wonder whether something reminiscent of this might be happening to Obama. Granted, the comparison is more than a little overripe, even alarmist--the United States is still the world's most powerful country, and it is in no danger of collapsing like the Soviet Union. But there are disturbing parallels. "
So now you're comparing Obama to Gorbachev????
"overripe"? More like absurdly ludicrous?
Perhaps you forgot that the Soviet Union HAD ALL BUT COLLAPSED by the time Gorby took over. It's the only reason he came to power in the first place, they were hoping he could patch thing together in the hopes there would still be a Soviet Union in ten years.
Furthermore, communism was unsustainable, while captialism isn't. The mess we're in now isn't because of a fundamental flaw in our economy, but because we sat by and allowed people to do things we knew weren't good in the long run. We tolerated it because we all made a ton of money, and now we have to deal with the consequences.
If anything, you should compare him to Jimmy Carter, who inherited an economy in shatters and failed US foreign policy. You know, the one that supported the Shah of Iran despite overwhelming evidence that he was a ruthless, crooked despot? The foreign policy that paved the way for the Islamic revolution that put the Ayatollahs in power? I wonder who crafted that foreign policy (oh that's right, it was the REPUBLICANS).
Try having a clue Mr. Hirsch, it's not a bad thing.
Love,
BS
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Posted By: Gopman12 @ 10/15/2009 9:39:34 AM
Hirsch, you must be a jew. You twisted thoughts are exactky the reason israel is in total chaos and terrorising the Middle East. Why do you hate Bush so much? obama is an empty suit. He has no backbone. Russia and China are dancing all over us. Thanks obama for a change for the worse.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/15/2009 12:56:48 PM
Yup. Sounds like GOP talk alright.
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Posted By: Deepshark @ 10/13/2009 12:19:09 AM
Waning influence ? the man serves as the U.S. President ! I doubt a "waning influence" features much in Mr. Obama's brief, quite the reverse, surely.....though the Nobel Committee's choice seems a bit weird - end of 2nd term would perhaps be more appropriate, after an established track record of fostering peace.
Ah well...I suspect those that got rich between 1999 and 2007/8 while swallowing conservative rhetoric no doubt miss the glory days, and so are a group devoted to hating anything other than their good times - which a poorer country that elected a Democratic Administration (because its not just Mr. Obama, laddies - its a lot of people working their backsides off in a basement below the White House, unappreciated apart from a pathetic salary check) in order to set the balances aright. Its interesting too that this same group loves to pass abusive, abrasive, poorly informed and generally divisive comment.
Can the conservatives of America do no more than sound like little rabid miniatures of Rush ? Have you no shame, people ? And again - have you no shame ?-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/13/2009 6:35:08 AM
Deepshark,
Perhaps the Nobel Committee wanted to get the prize awarded to their darling before the wheels inevitably came off. They wouldn't be able to give the award to Obama once it is seen what a disaster his schemes will bring. That is indeed a shame.
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Posted By: trucker1 @ 10/09/2009 8:12:12 PM
Watch the right-wingers ranting and raving on here?????
I on the contrary am having a GREAT day. I am just loving it.
Rant and rave amongst yourselves, you right-wing idiots.
No one cares and no one pays attention. You bunch of lunatics.
No one has given a fr*ggin??? sh*t about your miserable right
wing view and your crummy party since even before the last
november election. You people are nothing and you have nothing
to offer. In your esteemed party???s and life???s philosophy, any
president should be a president who does as little as possible
Kinda bit you in the butt, didn???t it, after Katrina, when it was
so super-obvious (finally) to all Americans???
Even in the words of George Will at that time (paraphrasing):
Americans want at least a president who is competent (in this
philosophy not much else matters).
So, take today, and take this Nobel prize awarded to our
President and wallow in it. Rant and rave some more???
You right-wingers, y???all got left behind, and it was for good
reason???-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/09/2009 8:18:21 PM
trucker,
You seem a bit rattled. What are you talking about? We are all delighted that the President won the Miss Congeniality award. He certainly deserves it. All that apologizing was bound to make him popular with the European elites. We congratulate the president and we wish him the best of luck with the Daytime Emmy Awards.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/10/2009 2:49:32 PM
paule/donald,
Elites? Really? According to Laura Ingraham, where you live determines if you are an elitist. If you live in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco or.D.C. you are "prima facie" an elitist.[ I suppose Europe also qualifies]. These appear to be cities in which a majority of the people, mostly working people, voted democrat, which is really the problem. If you shop at Walmart you are saved. If you flew the flag before Sept 11, you are also saved. All the rest out there are elitists or elitist suspects. Commies, all of them.
If you care about oppressed minorities, you may be an elitist Be careful! Do not support the U.N. lest you be labeled as an elitist. If the world hates us, it's the world's fault, not ours
One wonders if George Bush II, was an elitist. He did ascend to the throne not with a red neck, having been exposed to the sun for years, while working his butt off to care for the wife and kids. The guy has soft hands, a swagger and a built in sneer. He is the simple victim of his birth order. Just another case of primogeniture. Being the eldest put him in line for the throne. A spoiled brat who never came face to face with an honest day's work. Probably why he whined about the presidency being a" haaard job." Let's not forget his many accomplishments of deserting the Air National Guard and we know he was marvelously successful at manipulating the failure of one business after another. This all before he took the U.S. down with him. Walter Cronkite said he was partly responsible for the "dumbing of America". That makes Cronkite an elitist, I suppose.-
Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/10/2009 3:08:32 PM
Well, chris. No one will ever accuse you of being an elitist.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/11/2009 12:09:38 AM
bj.,
Darned right and I don't consider myself one or aspire to be one either ! I am a simple person with basic needs.-
Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/11/2009 12:55:30 AM
And you're none of the many labels the rightwingers have devised and apply when they 'disagree' but cannot support their position.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/11/2009 6:41:23 PM
40yr,
Thanks!-
Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/11/2009 10:00:40 PM
BTW, Chris. I loved Walter Cronkite, but I have never found anything about Walter accusing Bush of dumbing down America. I have to challenge you on that. Walter often criticized the media for dumbing down the news. Cronkite objected to corporate monopolies who owned the news outlets (think GE owning NBC) who were more concerned with commerce and entertainment than with civics and democracy.
You appear to be a nice person, Chris, but I believe that you may be reading too many of those dumbed down news outlets.-
Posted By: chris s. @ 10/12/2009 12:43:58 AM
bj,
I watch so little T.V. you would be surprised! It doesn't interest me much, unless it's thevery few selective things that interest me. I skim but not much catches my attention. Maybe I have ADHD, who knows?-
Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/12/2009 10:53:17 AM
chris. It really is difficult to get real news on TV. They just skim the surface. If it hasn't been caught on video, it isn't interesting. Newspapers are dying out, but they do cover stories in depth. Our local paper has just featured a two-part series on how DWI charges are handled by the police and prosecution. It was very well researched. TV would never investigate this subject as thoroughly as the paper did.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/12/2009 12:53:14 AM
bj, I'm looking for the Cronkite reference and I will find it and shoot it back to you. It's just getting too darned late for me.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 3:11:00 PM
Chris,
There are elitists everywhere, Chris. Anywhere you have a pompous windbag pontificating about the world's woes, you have an elitist. Anywhere you have a politician who believes that he knows best, you have an elitist. Anywhere you have an attempt to stifle free expression, you have elitists, Anywhere you find apologists for tyrants, you have elitists, Anywhere there are people who are ashamed of this country, you have elitists, Anywhere you find religion being ridiculed, you have elitists. Oh yes, Chris, it is easy to find elitists. They fill the halls of Congress, the White House, the mainstream media, academia and Hollywood. The only place where they are scarce on the ground is in the ranks of this country's military. That is who should have been awarded a Peace Prize. The American Soldier who has done more to bring peace to the world than anyone in history.
P.S. In the comment that you are replying to, I was being sarcastic about Daytime Emmies. Needless to say, I was shocked to learn that Obama had already won a Daytime Emmy. Will wonders never cease.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/11/2009 12:02:48 AM
I didn't know about or care about the Daytime Emmies. Pretty sure there are elitists in the military as well. Maybe not on the ground though.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 3:23:36 AM
chris s.:I didn't know about or care about the Daytime Emmies. Pretty sure there are elitists in the military as well. Maybe not on the ground though.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Than you can imagine my shock when I learned that Obama had already won a Daytime Emmy along with Grammy. What's next? An Oscar? This cult of personality is getting out of hand. It's starting to sound like Kim Jong Il's golf game where he shot 38 under par in his first attempt.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/09/2009 11:47:05 PM
Miss Congeniality Award Huh? Where did I hear that? Oh yes, It was from Rush Limbaugh today! That sure is good good one and we will never, ever get tired of it. Now matter how many times we hear it. That Rush and paule/donald what a scamps! Another reason to give Obama a "shot". What did I hear today from a Florida senator? "If Obama ended world hunger tomorrow, the Republicans would blame him for over population". This is not as horrific as his losing the Olympics, but almost! At least you will make it seem so. We all know it should have gone to George Bush instead. Does it even matter that he is giving the awards' monetary contribution to charity? Naw. It's really pretty darned funny watching you guys scream and yell about this 'til you blow a blood vessel ! Just more bitterness and unpatriotism. Makes the people on Jerry Springer look calm, cool, collected and sane.
The same party that was upset because they thought Obama was "supposedly" apologizing for America is now denigrating their own President. How is that any less anti-American in the eyes of the world? You want him to fail more than you want the U.S. to succeed!
Please keep spouting the ministry of the fundamental, hard right wing. The gospel of the Holy Trinity Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh!-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:10:58 AM
Rush had better start using his whole brain instead of trying to beat the rest of the world and disenfranchise liberalism and progressivism and advocate for genocide against Muslims with "only half his brain", as he claims.
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Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/12/2009 8:26:04 AM
Vigilance;
Hello, you once again just came from behind and had a what; an original thought! :-) When you reference Genocide and Muslims in the same breath and they have nothing in common you really show your ignorance. Then portend it is to "disenfranchise liberalism and progressivism" what a sorry little person you are; are your lies intentional or self gratifying illusion?
You really need to take a look at history, think which came first the Chicken or the egg. Keep in mind the Muslims are the chosen ones, everyone else is beneath them even within their own religion believes. This is fine with me our Religions are doing the same and I hold no fault against Muslims as a whole. One really big difference is we do not go around murdering and creating a Hell on Earth for the differences, but I'm sure your ok with that?
Now the problem, Hitler admired them and their ideologies and patterned his own beliefs towards their same ideologies. Of course you don't think the genocide of 6,000,000,000+ Jewish people ever happened right, they were just trying to disenfranchise the world against Hitler? So for the Chicken and the Egg, by the time Hitler was created the Muslims were already at for close to 40 years+ on their current superiority rampage, death spree and Jewish hate. Had the World mopped up after Hitler we also would not be back again, and again, and again to the Middle East. Imagine if they had finished Desert Storm we would not have had a second Iraq problem.
Search Hitler and Muslims and don???t forget, Hitler cost the world close to 1,000,000,000 people. I have not found any information on how many lives's the Muslims have cost in the last 100+ years bet it would be eye popping!
So really it has nothing to do with disenfranchising liberalism and progressivism, but your party???s newest word, "progressivism" is just a nice way to say Anti-Federalist. You do know our wonderful Democrats opposed the ratification of the US Constitution don't you; would it make more sense to you why Obama thinks our Constitution is flawed? The oddest part of Obama, I have heard Reverend Wright and how he preaches Islamic hatred, he has to be having a internal conflict with Afghanistan.
Rush defiantly runs around on the hard right I find him tough to listen to for long it???s too much! Then again I watch what Obama is doing in bizarre rainbow liberal happy land on the hard left and it is just as bad!
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 9:57:35 AM
Chris,
I am mightily insulted that you accuse me of not being original. I came up with Miss Congeniality all on my own. I can assure you that my only inspiration was from Sandra Bullock. As for screaming and yelling, you won't get that from me. Some derisive laughter, perhaps, but no screaming and yelling. And what is with this "unpatriotism?" I am with Hillary on this one; "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." She also said; "Since when has it been part of American patriotism to keep our mouths shut?"
Wanting Obama's big government schemes to fail is not the same as wanting the country to fail. Obama does not hold the White House by divine right. He has a temporary lease on the place, subject to the continued approval of it's real owners. So forgive me if I will not march in lockstep with the forces of "Hope and Change." I much prefer to make up my own mind.
P.S. C'mon Chris, even you have to admit that this award is a joke. Even a White House aide asked, when hearing the news, "It's not April 1, is it?"
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:04:54 AM
The forces of Hope and Change do not march in lockstep, donald...
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 1:13:46 PM
vigilance,
Goose step?-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 1:25:33 PM
Mostly we move how we feel, being a creative bunch, and not copying the movements and styles of fascist or murderous regimes. :P
Oh, but I forgot. The New Deal and FDR's socialism killed millions of Americans, right? Just like Mao and Stalin?-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 1:29:56 PM
vigilance,
"Creative bunch." You people haven't had an original thought since Karl Marx's last lunch order. You people just can't seem to fathom the concept of 'been there, done that."-
Posted By: chris s. @ 10/10/2009 5:45:12 PM
Deep breath, Chris! Pushing me over the edge here with the "been there done that" thingy.History is not my strong suit, but I know just enough to be a little dangerous.
Let's consider, for a moment, Hitler's "preemptive strike" on Poland. The announced purpose was to protect both Germany and Germans within Poland against the aggression of the Polish government. Sounding familiar? Hitler wrote that the appropriate propaganda for invading Poland would be published, the truth or falsehood of which was unimportant, since "the Right lies in Victory." Ringing any bells?
Dachau was the earliest internment camp and at it's inception it had not yet been converted into a "death camp". But it did house the enemies of the state. Take a look at Guantanamo [Obama needs to do something about that] our indefinite "detention camp" New cells of it were built by the former vice-president's company Halliburton. [couldn't help myself on the dig] We know that inmates have died there and to the interns there it "is" a death camp. One where humans selected as" enemies of the state" are tortured, some to death and none with a trial to determine whether they are guilty of anything other than breathing in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This is American democracy at work? Is it any wonder we have sooo many fences to mend and our image needs polishing? I, sincerely, hope that Obama works his tail off and earns that Nobel prize.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 6:38:59 PM
Chris,
Are you seriously comparing Hitler's invasion of Poland to the war in Iraq? Isn't that just a bit over the top? There is no comparison to be made, there are zero similarities. Regardless of the propaganda from the Code Pink and MoveOn crowd.
Dachau was for political prisoners. Gitmo is for illegal combatants. No comparison here, either.
The only way Obama can earn the award in the eyes of the committee would be to do things which were detrimental to the United States. They are not our friends.
I am beginning to worry about you, Chris. You were never this shrill before. Has this Nobel thing thrown you off your game?
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/10/2009 11:30:42 PM
The definition of political prisoners was subject to change as Hitler willed it. Hording food was crime! What is detrimental or threatening, to the United States or any country, is open to interpretation. The German people are strong-willed, and prideful. Hitler appealed to their vulnerabilities, their strong sense of national tradition and assured them he was their redeemer. Promises were made to every class, every interest. The only ones kept were to the industrialists. They were indispensable to the production of war weapons. A few party radicals attempted to take over certain dept. stores. They were soon dispossessed by very conservative [right leaning] business types.
Is there any doubt, that Hitler perfected the art of propaganda and used it to takeover a country and it's people, from the laboring class to the elite? As for comparables to propoganda, or" misinformation" and the war in Iraq, you can draw your own conclusions. .I don't doubt that with the father of propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, Hitler,temporarily, became heir to the German mind. Vast masses of the American public have come to accept the leadership of those whose ambitions are, in my opinion, antiethical to the welfare of the people. Blinded by the mindless mantras of patriotism and fear, created with terror alerts of various hues, people have abdicated their rights and embraced the illusion that their freedoms are a hinderance to their security.
My source = my mother, aunts, uncles and their friends who lived it, in Berlin! They are a goldmine of information, to this day. Most of them are still sharp and do not have "selective memories. We are a no nonsense, complicated people. It's in my bone marrow. This is stuff my sister and i gleaned over the years. .
If you see me as shrill from time to time it's because, as I choose to see it, I am passionate. There are many sides to me and I guess that's one of them. You're going to have to deal with it. This whole Nobel prize nonsense, distresses me about as much as the horrific loss of the Olympics. Not at all ! We have bigger fish to fry.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 3:49:36 AM
Chris,
I very much doubt that anyone is being held at Gitmo for hoarding food. These are some real bad boys. Even the Obama administration is having 2nd thoughts about letting these guys loose.
Nazi propaganda was a blunt instrument. Crude and vulgar. For sophisticated propaganda you would have to see that produced by Hollywood in the 1940s. It's too bad that Hollywood has switched sides and has gone over to America's enemies.
As I have said, the danger of Obama is not that he is going to turn the United States into Nazi Germany. The danger is he is going to turn us into the Weimar Republic with hyperinflation, an ineffectual government, and battling groups of extremists.
Perhaps shrill was too harsh a word. Passionate is definitely preferable. I am more than happy to deal with passionate. A lot of the people here are dull as dishwater and they just spout the same old stuff over and over. It is tiresome. So hurrah for passion, let's have more of it.
"We have bigger fish to fry." That's what troubles me. I suspect that the American people are the fish about to be fried.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/11/2009 9:47:19 AM
"The danger is he is going to turn us into the Weimar Republic with hyperinflation,"
That must be why the stock market has risen about 3000 points since its low?
You and Glenn Beck are economically inept. Everyone has mild to moderate inflation fears, but, no no, you insist, we should be TERRIFIED. Hyperinflation, "donald", is when you have five suitcases of money chasing two loaves of bread. Can you go around the supermarkets in this country and tell me how likely you really think that is?
My grandfather - L. William Seidman, former chair of the FDIC under Reagan and one of the most important Republican economists of the last century - taught me a lot about economics, "donald". He would probably be dismayed that I've chosen to ally myself so closely to Obama's principles, but he also taught me how to distinguish economic bull****, and the idea that we are going to suffer Weimar-Germany level hyperinflation is a vicious smear, a complete mark of inept analysis, and a hysterical viewpoint that's only going to end up crippling the careers of those who keep fearmongering with it. Inflation is a real possibility. Hyperinflation is not. We have no war reparations to pay, as did Weimar Germany.
Can you explain to me exactly why you believe we will suffer HYPERINFLATION - as opposed to normal inflation? Do you have any understanding about why it happens and how it works? Can you go into our stores and see the massive, gargantuan hoard of consumer items that nearly EVERY store has - that nobody has enough to pay for, at least as much as they'd like? It is very, very, very hard to have stores full of consumer goods that people don't have the cash to buy and "hyperinflation" at the same time.
But please, take me on here. Please do. Please question my economic bonafides and fitness to discuss. Let's do it. Anything to stop your stupid rumors and wild fears.-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/11/2009 10:03:55 AM
Christ, I would be more afraid of DEFLATION than anything else, and that's not much to be afraid of right now. Stores with backlogged inventories have been slashing prices. I picked up a 2GB Flash Drive for five bucks earlier this year. The CPI (do you know what the CPI is? consumer price index? no sneaky cheating on Wikipedia unless you're ready to actually learn) actually fell in 2009 for the first time since 1955, indicating a broad-based drop in prices and an increase in the value of the dollar relative to the goods it can buy.
plz learn economics before you start babbling about hyperinflation kthxbye-
Posted By: chris s. @ 10/11/2009 4:50:43 PM
Vig,
Where was I babbling about hyperinflation? Don't think that word was common in my vocabulary until you guys mentioned it. After one econ. class in college [yeah, I do know what CPI is without lookin' it up] all I know are my assets, what's in my 401k, stock portfolio, checking and savings. More than willing to take responsibility for what I say, not for something I didn't even think.. Don't claim to be an economist and never will. I'm here to learn!
Although there is a story, my mom tells frequently, about taking a wheelbarrow full of money, in Berlin, to buy that loaf of bread. She is fearful of it happening again, which is probably why we can't talk her out of hoarding gold and food.
My cause is more about our leaders lying to us and the rationalization of dragging us into Iraq. I think that often the government instills false fears in order to meet their goals. War seals power, since war demands patriotism and patriotism often denounces critical debate. Remember how shell-shocked we were post 9/11? We did whatever we were told; which gave the government a huge window of power. They took it and ran with it. I don't believe in spreading democracy through killing, freedom of torture and Christianity by violence. In the end, hypocrisy belongs to all of us in various degrees and usually reveals that which we hate most in ourselves.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 7:09:14 PM
Chris,
I don't think he was addressing you. He was taking the Lord's name in vain. I was the one who brought up hyperinflation and it made Vigilance hyper. Sorry you got caught in the backlash.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/12/2009 1:05:01 AM
Yeah, it's ok. I see what happened. Gets confusing around here from time ti time.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/12/2009 7:21:29 AM
chris s.:Yeah, it's ok. I see what happened. Gets confusing around here from time ti time.-------------------------------------------------------------------
Confusing is the least of it. Sometimes it is downright insane.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/11/2009 8:28:33 PM
"Christ,".
Not "Chris".
Sorry for any confusion.-
Posted By: chris s. @ 10/12/2009 1:02:49 AM
Vig,
I get it now. Just got confused there for a minute. It's all good!
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Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/12/2009 7:19:03 AM
Vigilance;
This one is just going to be fun!
Stock Market risen 3000 points, yes and if gold gets to $2000 our dollar is finished, as in destroyed.
Our dollar is now worth less than the paper it is printed on, you can thank our Liberal Democrats and their projected spending. But wait don't worry Obama has spent 14% of his Stimulus on pork at least Bush???s money worked.
Hyperinflation ask you Grandfather about the prime rate jumping to 15 to 20 points between 1978 and 1985. Also between just Obama's Health, Carbon and green projects we are looking at an annual deficit of say 2-2.5 trillion dollars, who do you think is going to pay, ahh-duh, everyone.
Oh, yippie! This is the best yet did you read a book, too bad you only understood part of what it said
You post;
"The CPI (do you know what the CPI is? consumer price index? no sneaky cheating on Wikipedia unless you're ready to actually learn)"
actually fell in 2009 for the first time since 1955, indicating a broad-based drop in prices and an increase in the value of the dollar relative to the goods it can buy."
Your broad-based partly is standing stagnant inventory you paid too much for the 2GB, I picked up a 4 gig for a dollar and also a free one from Micro Center, they only cost pennies to make.
As for the rest of broad based drop and your ignorance of the CPI you should have a bit more information than the Wikipedia. Going to keep it short, Products are ordered from China or ? it takes 6 mo+ to full fill less if stcok on hand and sit in customs for a while, these are them added to our distribution warehouses, sold wholesale to more warehouses, sold to stores. We are talking Billions of dollars of products bought and paid sitting around unsold for 6 mos+. Now the people who invested the Billions have to move the products to get their money back, ok so now toss in all the companies going bankrupt and their un-moved products so now you have a major surplus, whatcha going to do, sell it below cost and take the loss, write off what you can and hopefully avoid bankruptcy.
plz learn economics before you start babbling about hyperinflation and the PCI kthxbye, HaHa! -
Posted By: chris s. @ 10/11/2009 5:03:33 PM
Vig,
Almost forgot, I do agree that almost everything is "on sale" right now if you have the cash. There are bargains on stuff from property to i phones. If you've got a couple of bucks, it's like Let's Make a Deal out there. My son just bought a house in Jackson Hole, Wy. and saved over $200,000 by waiting one year. Procrastination, in this case, paid off. -
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 2:44:43 PM
vigilance,
Why is the rest of the world conspiring to replace the dollar? Do they know something that we don't?
Who is going to buy that additional $9 trillion in debt that Obama promised? Ask your grandfather that?
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 2:36:02 PM
vigilance,
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation." -- Vladimir Lenin.
"Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." -- Saul Alinsky Rules for Radicals.
"To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential restraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted and Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties."
"Negative liberties?" The Constitution of the United States is a "charter of negative liberties?"
Hyperinflation -- Ask the Chinese about that. They hold the mortgage.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 1:33:55 PM
Horse ***. I don't really follow a Communist policy, though I don't mind a little light socialism in our government. I could "original think" circles around you, donald. You're a force of the last century. I am a force of this one
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 1:54:57 PM
vigilance,
May the "farce" be with you, Luke Skywalker.-
Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/10/2009 3:43:55 PM
Donaldrex;
Vigilance, means what he say "I could "original think" circles around you" your head will be spinning trying to understand how he ascertains and compiles his thoughts! :-)-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 4:22:51 PM
earth,
Vigilance is often befuddled. Don't take it too seriously. He is a good guy.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/11/2009 9:56:49 AM
I'd go with "rarely". It does happen. You have not managed to do it, however.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 2:40:30 PM
Vigilance:I'd go with "rarely". It does happen. You have not managed to do it, however.-------------------------------------------------------------------
No fibbing, Vigilance. You know how you get tongue tied around me. It's okay, my wit dazzles everyone.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/11/2009 6:30:25 PM
As Kevin Costner said in Bull Durham, "dazzle me"!
Not everybody is blessed with your brains and talent, right? Most of us have to work prettydarned hard to attain the level of certainty and confidence that you were evidently born with. It's a gift isn't it?-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 7:14:40 PM
chris s.:As Kevin Costner said in Bull Durham, "dazzle me"!Not everybody is blessed with your brains and talent, right? Most of us have to work prettydarned hard to attain the level of certainty and confidence that you were evidently born with. It's a gift isn't it?-------------------------------------------------------
Good heavens, Chris. Have you lost your sense of humor? I was just joshing Vigilance, he is always so serious. You really need to lighten up, Chris.
P.S. Yes, it is a gift.
P.P.S. Now I'm joshing you. Smile!
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/12/2009 1:13:27 AM
I know, I was funnin' with ya! Maybe you've forgotten that I can do that. Perhaps I need to do it more. Maybe I'm too subtle, naw! Mostly I'm sarcastic, but now I'm smiling.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/12/2009 7:16:17 AM
chris s.:I know, I was funnin' with ya! Maybe you've forgotten that I can do that. Perhaps I need to do it more. Maybe I'm too subtle, naw! Mostly I'm sarcastic, but now I'm smiling.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glad I could make you smile. Subtle doesn't work here so well, blunt instruments yes, but little subtlety. Sarcasm is the highest form of wit, but it is often lost on the humorless. In any event, keep smiling.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 4:53:21 PM
Inventing lies does not qualify, earth. Nor does chanting Rush, Beck, www.biggovernment.com hate and hysteria.
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Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/10/2009 8:33:51 PM
40Year;
Chanting? HaHa! If you were less gullible and verified anything you believe, that is of course beyond your fascination with which one Madcow or Obler-pear? You would understand why most of us are not chanting, just stating!-
Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 9:02:59 PM
So this little ditty 'proves' your assertion that Vigilance presents no original thoughts here?
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Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/11/2009 3:03:52 AM
I guess you're right inventing lies does prove Vigilance presents original thoughts; so I guess your right 40year! :-)!
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/11/2009 9:52:14 AM
Call me a liar to my face. Come to my town. I'll even tell you where I live. Let's do this.
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Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/12/2009 4:52:45 AM
Vigilance;
HaHa!, K from here on out I will post to you and call them all, :-)! Also I live in Fullerton, CA; I'm all over LA and Orange county like it is small and get back to CO at least once a year, UT, NM and WY are easly attainable then. Vegas is only a few hours and go at least 2 times a year and can accommodate you most anytime you want. As for AZ I can around January middle of the month. Oh if you???re around AL, TX, SC, MI, WA, MI; I can set up a proxy thing for you. Atlantic City sounds like a blast give me 3 months notice. So I await your information? -
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 2:36:54 PM
Vigilance:Call me a liar to my face. Come to my town. I'll even tell you where I live. Let's do this.------------------------------------------------------------
Rambo? Is that you?
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 7:35:56 PM
There's a farce going on here, but not in my backyard.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 7:40:20 PM
Vigilance:There's a farce going on here, but not in my backyard.-----------------------------------------------------------
I believe that you will find the farce in Oslo.
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Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/12/2009 6:07:01 AM
Vigilance;
You post;
???The New Deal and FDR's socialism killed millions of Americans, right?"
FDR made the Depression worse and even prolonged it, when he was elected;
11.6 million Unemployed
Seven years later, there were still 11.3 million out of work
In 1932, there were 16.6 million on relief
In 1939, there were 19.6 million
Only WWII eventually ended the depression
So for FDR's programs to work it took WWII at a cost of about $5 trillion in inflation-adjusted dollars and the deaths of 450,670 U.S. soldiers to correct FDR's blunders.
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/10/2009 5:10:11 PM
Goose stepping? You want to go there? The parallels of American today under the domination of the far right with the rise of Hitler are not in all ways precise, and that, of course provides both hope and room for opposing arguments.But history is never exact, and contrary to the old saying,never "precisely" repeats itself. It only provides lessons. Mark Twain said "History doesn't repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes."
Pundits [see FOX] and fools [ditto] have, forever, taken history into their own hands and selectively drawn from it those facts that support their apocalyptic warnings. THE END IS NEAR! PERHAPS NOT! Yet, something new and disturbing, something portending danger for a people who claim they cherish freedom, blows in this worried wind.
The nation, like an automobile drunkenly steered to the right and nearing the brink, cannot regain control of it's course when the passenger reaches over for the wheel and applies "further" pressure to the right! A mighty crash of democracy is inevitable.-
Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 5:22:15 PM
Yes, the Nazi's were rightwingers. And there was this need to believe in national and cultural superiority, and there were soooo many 'enemies'. And there was the same kind of hysteria and fervor that we see in the rightwingers of today's America.
The biggest difference in America, and from them, is that there is much broader education now, and the world has learned where the Nazi kind of xenophobia can lead.
The Rush, Beck, biggovernment.com phenomenon has topped out on the gullible ones and those susceptible to hate, hysteria, xenophobia, racism and torture mongering.
The rest of us are too informed and aware and beyond gullibility to get sucked into that nothink hysteria.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 6:27:16 PM
40Year.R,
What part of National Socialist German Worker's Party did you miss?-
Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 9:12:51 PM
Don't think I missed a whole lot, paulejb, that's why I observe that this whole Nazi thing and Obama as part and parcel of the same hate, lie, smear, fear propaganda campaign that only appealed to the haters, uninformed gullible nothink ightwingers that was waged in that campaign as is waged now.
Those haters, uninformed gullible nothink ightwingers are the ones who keep posting the same things here, exercising their paranoia and hate and who, for example, can't get their minds around an America that does not need to bully its allies to recognize its own value.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 4:08:11 AM
40Year.R,
Well, you missed my name. It's donaldrex. You have also missed the concept that in a free society it is okay to criticize the leadership. Now I know that you find that inconvenient, but that's the way it is. At least for now, there is no telling what this Obama crowd has in store for us in the future.
You leftwingers seem to often confuse derision with hate. We don't hate you people, we just hold you and your ideas in contempt.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/11/2009 1:30:50 PM
Your dull references to your 'rapier' wit among other things, paulejb...
The fact that you would lie about it despite everyone knowing, paulejb...
The fact that you don't come close to the topic of the post to which you are 'replying', paulejb...
Such as this one, paulejb...-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 2:54:38 PM
40Year.R:Your dull references to your 'rapier' wit among other things, paulejb...The fact that you would lie about it despite everyone knowing, paulejb...The fact that you don't come close to the topic of the post to which you are 'replying', paulejb...Such as this one, paulejb...----------------------------------------------------------------------
And what am I lying about, 40Year?
As for coming close to the topic of the post to which I am responding, it is not my fault that you cannot grasp the subtleties of my reply. I realize that it is heavy lifting for you, perhaps you should not try this at home.
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Posted By: 40YearConservative @ 10/10/2009 9:20:08 PM
40Year(dot)R, Hey, buddy! What's going on? You doing alright. Got a question for you. Changing the subject a little. Why is it if you illegally enter North Korea, you get 12 years in prison. If you illegally enter Iran, while hiking they throw you in prison, but if you enter the U.S. illegally, you get a driver's license, food stamps, and free medical care? I'm asking you because I know you are a clear thinking republican! Thanks!
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Posted By: ID_Neon @ 10/10/2009 6:23:20 PM
Truly idiotic, how are Nationalist-Socialists "right wingers"? Saddam was also a Nationalist-Socialist. So was Stalin. So was Mussolini, National Socialism comes in a lot of forms, Germany's happened to be dominated by a personality cult and was decidedly liberal, breaking big corporations and supporting large state-operated Unions.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 9:15:27 PM
Only a drooler would lump Stalin and Saddam in the same category, but then since you are not capable of discrimination or analytical thought, you lump all together as your uninformed mind finds convenient, so you can post and then tell yourselves you said something.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 3:59:28 AM
40Year.R:Only a drooler would lump Stalin and Saddam in the same category, but then since you are not capable of discrimination or analytical thought, you lump all together as your uninformed mind finds convenient, so you can post and then tell yourselves you said something.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only difference between Stalin and Saddam was the body count.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/11/2009 10:49:13 AM
And the fact that we remained allied with Saddam far longer than we ever did with Stalin.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 2:48:41 PM
Vigilance:And the fact that we remained allied with Saddam far longer than we ever did with Stalin.---------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe so, but the point still remains that 40Year.R doesn't know what he is talking about. The difference between Stalin and Saddam was merely one of scale. 40Year.R can't wrap his mind around that.
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Posted By: ID_Neon @ 10/10/2009 6:23:23 PM
Truly idiotic, how are Nationalist-Socialists "right wingers"? Saddam was also a Nationalist-Socialist. So was Stalin. So was Mussolini, National Socialism comes in a lot of forms, Germany's happened to be dominated by a personality cult and was decidedly liberal, breaking big corporations and supporting large state-operated Unions.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 6:51:53 PM
Chris,
The danger is not so much that the Obama administration is going to turn us into Nazi Germany. The danger is that he is going to turn this country into the Weimar Republic. And we know how that turned out. The world is much to dangerous to have amateur ideologues running the show. They will drive us off a cliff without knowing that there was any danger.
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Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/10/2009 3:12:00 PM
Well said, donaldrex. Everyone becomes so angry if anyone dares to criticize President Obama. It shows no respect. Then these same people ridicule the former president.
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Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/11/2009 9:34:15 PM
I completely agree, Chris. Dissent is a form of patriotism. However, many of the Democrats and the people posting here forgot that during the town hall meetings and teaparty protests. The protesters were called un-American and ignorant. The so-called objective journalists, not the pundits, analyzed what right-wing news cable was behind these protests. The reporters, not the analysts, went out of their way to set the record straight regarding the health care debate. ABC devoted most of one day to "educating" the public about healthcare reform. They gave President Obama an evening of free airtime. No Republican rebuttals were allowed.
Criticizing a president for his policies are perfectly legitimate. You are right that President Bush made mistakes. I have never been in lockstep with any president. Bush was not only criticized, but villified and he was called vicious names. He was blasted as a liar, idiot, moron, etc. Some of the people here still gleefully resort to calling the former president all of these same names, but are indignant when an article or comment are even mildly critical of the current president. That is hipocrosy.
BTW, many of the people who post here are equally influenced by the nonsense that they hear on MSNBC, Newweek, ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, the Huffington Post and the New York Times. How do I know? They repeat the same rhetoric that they hear from those news sources. -
Posted By: chris s. @ 10/10/2009 11:57:44 PM
bj,
Go ahead and criticize away! Dissent is a form of patriotism. My skin is not that thin. Nobody was rooting for President Bush to succeed more than I. If he would have been successful, this country would be better off. Unfortunately, he wasn't. To paraphrase Reagan, "are you better off now than you were eight years ago?' Has it occured to you that he may not have been right about everything? It's acceptable and encouraged to challenge your leaders. I certainly don't think Obama is perfect, in anyway. I do support him because he is my President., Nobody should be parroting some piece of nonsense they hear on the radio, read in the paper or see on television." How fortunate for government that the people they administer don't think." That is a pretty famous quote. I'm not going to give the source, you'll have to look it up. -
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 4:26:19 PM
bjsassy:Well said, donaldrex. Everyone becomes so angry if anyone dares to criticize President Obama. It shows no respect. Then these same people ridicule the former president.---------------------------------------------------------------------
It always depends on whose ox is being gored, BJ. It is amazing that these people think we have forgotten their treatment of President Bush and the country over the last 8 years. Well, turnaround is fair play. They had better grow some backbone.
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Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/09/2009 8:20:27 PM
trucker1
Wow, just a little more proof on why Obama didn't deserve the Nobel; we here from another Liberal Democrat spewing their curent mantra! :-) ROLOL!!
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Posted By: RealAmerican2009 @ 10/12/2009 10:16:39 AM
Obama has a job here in the United States. We hired him to make things better for all of us. So far he has not achieved anything except a crushing mortgage for our children and grandchildren. Talk is cheap, and as Obama is now demonstrating, meaningless. The old adage "Actions speak louder than words" will be Obama's epitath.
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Posted By: Lothario @ 10/12/2009 10:30:17 AM
Yes talk is cheap and so are your thoughts. Here's a penny for them. Bush was the first to acquire the 'mortgage', your word not mine, for our children's grandchildren by 1. giving tax cuts to the wealthiest of Americans and 2. starting a war that we could not pay for. Your reasoning is worthless as are your thoughts. Gimme my penny back!
Your name pretty much describes the problem with you right wing nut jobs, that if someone doesn't agree with you then they aren't real Americans.
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Posted By: lamborghini @ 10/12/2009 8:20:23 AM
a lot of sour grapes
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Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/12/2009 10:00:51 AM
Lamborghini;
I like that; short simple and to the point! :-)
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Posted By: Nozarck @ 10/12/2009 2:14:32 AM
I agree. The award was more like a bribe, encouraging him to work harder to keep the Republicans from stopping the rise of the fourth reich.
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Posted By: Barney L. Cornett @ 10/11/2009 10:58:19 PM
I won???t defend George W. Bush; I detested the man and most of his Policies, but by the same token, unlike so many Americans and the World at large, I don???t subscribe to the notion that Obama can do no wrong and however one wants to cut it, Obama does not deserve The Nobel Peace Prize for 12 days or 220 hours or so of being in Office! The Nobel Peace Prize has been Cheapened before by giving it to Terrorists like Yasser Arafat and Warlords like Le Duk Tho and although Obama is not like any of these Scum-Bags, he has done absolutely nothing to deserve such a Prestigious Award in the 9 months he???s been Office, much less for the 12 days or 220 hours or so that he was being Judged for, the Nominating Committees vote ended on Feb. 1st 2009 and so again The Nobel Peace Prize is Cheapened! If the Nobel Committee voted for Obama just for the reason that Obama isn???t George W. Bush then the Nobel Committee is telling all Americans something, that is that they approve when America and Americans have a Weak President and has Disdain and Contempt when America and Americans have a Strong President! For all of George W. Bush???s faults, he was a Strong Leader as was Ronald Reagan! Of all the people that deserved The Nobel Peace Prize, Ronald Reagan should have won The Nobel Peace Prize but didn???t, his Peace through Strength is The ONLY reason that the Cold War was won by the West and there is no Soviet Union to fear anymore! Now we live in a world that has become far more dangerous with Obama as the Weakest President in Modern History! Obama is for Peace through Appeasement then through Strength, so of course, the European Countries who benefitted through Americas Peace through Strength during the Cold War and during World War II would Lionize Obama, a Cheap, Weak, Imitation of what a World Leader should really be, and The Nobel Peace Prize has shown itself to be as Worthless as the paper it was written on! Maybe the next time Europe gets itself into another bad situation, America should just look the other way! Europe has proven time and again that it has nothing but Contempt for our Country and our People, that is until they need our help with something! Every time America has asked Europe for help, they Spit in Our Faces and Burn Our Flag! I think Enough is Enough!
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 11:01:46 AM
If Yasser Arafat, Jimmy Carter, and Al Gore can win this award than Obama certainly can. After all there is not a dime's worth of difference between the lot of them. They should form a club. The dead Arafat can be an honorary member.
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Posted By: violinsforAvalon @ 10/10/2009 11:36:22 AM
donaldrex,
The Nobel Prize was awarded to the president by the NB committee. It was their decision. Whether we agree or disagree that he deserves it, we should at least be proud knowing that the committee feels that the president is deserving of this honor. This is an honor bestowed to all of us as a country. Let's congratulate him, shall we?
*Peace*
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 12:34:00 PM
violinsforAvalon:donaldrex,
The Nobel Prize was awarded to the president by the NB committee. It was their decision. Whether we agree or disagree that he deserves it, we should at least be proud knowing that the committee feels that the president is deserving of this honor. This is an honor bestowed to all of us as a country. Let's congratulate him, shall we?
*Peace*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely! I do congratulate him. People of like mind with Obama saw fit to award him a Peace Prize. They have a perfect right to do so and to congratulate themselves on their selective prejudices. As for me, I would have held out for the real defenders of peace -- the American Soldier. These European elitists have such short memories.
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Posted By: violinsforAvalon @ 10/10/2009 12:37:11 PM
donald,
You never disappoint..lol
Off to read some Shakespearen sonnets..a friend recently turned me on to him. Thank you to that friend..
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 12:46:36 PM
violins,
I can but merely try.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."-
Posted By: chris s. @ 10/11/2009 7:20:18 PM
This is very romantic. I feel like I'm eavesdropping. Get a room !
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 8:02:09 PM
chris s.:This is very romantic. I feel like I'm eavesdropping. Get a room !----------------------------------------------------
Romantic? You have an interesting idea of what is romantic, Chris. But I don't mind you eavesdropping if you like.
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Posted By: Tina_ @ 10/10/2009 11:56:13 AM
"we should at least be proud knowing that the committee feels that the president is deserving of this honor."
Please speak for yourself. As Pallisor pointed out, Obama had only been in office for 12 days before he was nominated.
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Posted By: violinsforAvalon @ 10/10/2009 12:12:12 PM
Tina_
I am well aware of what Pallisor pointed out, I don't need you to inform me. Pallisor also said he was happy the president received the NB. He is happy a sitting president received the Nobel Prize.
"Tina" are you speaking for Pallisor? I am speaking for myself. I am also suggesting, not ordering anyone to feel honored. The committe awarded this to our president and we should feel honored. If you're not, that's your problem.
Btw, I just adore your Francais...translator site?
PS Just between you and me, you're happy Obama won the award too, aren't you "Tina?"
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Posted By: Tina_ @ 10/10/2009 12:24:05 PM
Please, if you are going to address me, please do not edit your post until I have a chance to answer. You've done that three times now. You added this:
"PS Just between you and me, you're happy Obama won the award too, aren't you "Tina?""
What's the business with the quotes? I ask you again, are you stalking me?
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Posted By: violinsforAvalon @ 10/10/2009 12:43:04 PM
Tina_
I am not stalking you. If you feel that I am, report me. How's that?
Quotes? Lately, I have been reading Shakespeare and I am into quotes.
This stalking nonsense, do try and remember you posted to me first. You initiated the exchange and I simply replied to you.
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Posted By: Tina_ @ 10/10/2009 1:28:54 PM
"Quotes? Lately, I have been reading Shakespeare and I am into quotes."
Who cares what you are reading? And who is it you are trying to impress? And what does putting quotes around my name have to do with Shakespeare?
I ask you again, what is with the quote business? Are you trying to say that Tina is not my real name? What business is it of yours what my name is? So you pop up here the day after I do and start saying, or inferring rather, that my name is not Tina and question me for posting to Donald and mentioning Pallisor. What exactly is going on? This is stalkerish behavior.
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Posted By: Tina_ @ 10/10/2009 12:20:11 PM
You editted your post and added:
"Btw, I just adore your Francais...translator site? "
What does that mean? Are you stalking me?
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Posted By: violinsforAvalon @ 10/10/2009 12:31:03 PM
Tina_
I don't stalk. I can read any article here I want to read. I read your French on an article earlier and it was so perfect, I asked you if you got that on a site for translation and you ask me if I am stalking you? Lol, too funny! Some posters here lately are obsessed with accusing others of stalking. It must be an epidemic. Lol....
Have a nice day Tina.
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Posted By: Tina_ @ 10/10/2009 12:37:20 PM
"Tina_ I don't stalk. I can read any article here I want to read. I read your French on an article earlier and it was so perfect, I asked you if you got that on a site for translation and you ask me if I am stalking you? Lol, too funny! Some posters here lately are obsessed with accusing others of stalking. It must be an epidemic. Lol.... Have a nice day Tina. "
Why are you doing this? Have you followed me here from another blogging site? What business is it of yours who I interact with? You are acting jealous, why is that?
You have the nerve to stalk and attack me and then you say 'have a nice day'? Stick it creep!!!!!
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Posted By: violinsforAvalon @ 10/10/2009 12:46:06 PM
Tina_
Jealous of you? Lol..
I didn't attack you. You did by accusing me of stalking you when I didn't and by referring to me as creep.
I'm done with this now.
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Posted By: Tina_ @ 10/10/2009 1:00:26 PM
"Tina_ Jealous of you? Lol.. I didn't attack you. You did by accusing me of stalking you when I didn't and by referring to me as creep. I'm done with this now."
Knock off the 'Who's on first' gag. You reference a post I made to Donald on an other article. That sounds to me like you are stalking me, or maybe it's Donald you are stalking. Then, you come off like a jealous house wife for me mentioning Pallisor. You act as if you know these people. How can that be if you just joined Newsweek?
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Posted By: Tina_ @ 10/10/2009 12:18:25 PM
"Tina_ I am well aware of what Pallisor pointed out, I don't need you to inform me. Pallisor also said he was happy the president received the NB. "Tina" are you speaking for Pallisor? I am speaking for myself. I am also suggesting, not ordering, anyone to feel honored. The committe awarded this to our president and we should feel honored. If you're not, that's your problem."
""Tina" are you speaking for Pallisor?"
Why in the world would you say that? Of course not!!! What is wrong with you?
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:55:38 AM
zzzzz.
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Posted By: bjsassy @ 10/10/2009 12:35:42 PM
Vigilance. I don't agree with you on most subjects, but I have to admit that you are very funny and entertaining.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 12:50:39 PM
At least somebody is enjoying some of this. :)
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 1:04:29 PM
Everyone always enjoys you, Vigilance. You are such a contradiction. We never know which way you might go.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 1:16:48 PM
Are you paul? Would you just own up? Did you catch my message on the other thread? :P
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Posted By: chris s. @ 10/11/2009 7:11:27 PM
Vig,
Don't you see? He can't own up. That would be an admission and he could get into lots of trouble. Instead he's ignoring us and waiting it out until we start calling him "donald" or go away.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 7:19:19 PM
chris s.:Vig,Don't you see? He can't own up. That would be an admission and he could get into lots of trouble. Instead he's ignoring us and waiting it out until we start calling him "donald" or go away.----------------------------------------------------------
What's the mystery? What has you folks so stirred up? What is it that you want me to own up to, Chris? And why would you think that I would want you to go away? I like you both, I would miss you if you went away.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 1:37:27 PM
vigilance,
Why all the questions? I thought what happened at Newsweek stayed at Newsweek?-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 7:33:46 PM
Did you catch my last message on the other thread? I believe you know the one I'm talking about.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 7:50:54 PM
Vigilance:Did you catch my last message on the other thread? I believe you know the one I'm talking about.-------------------------------------------------------------------
Must have missed. Repeat it one more time.
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Posted By: Just_Ray @ 10/10/2009 1:56:59 PM
It really started getting good to me me when they brought out the violins. I broke out laughing when the following image came to mind . The violin player stops playing and starts screaming, "They are mine. All the men are mine."
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Posted By: Apolitical @ 10/10/2009 1:13:24 PM
donald - another p*nis envy from the impotent republicans. Democrats got 4 Nobel prices. How many for the Republicans? Just one. And its to Teddy Roosevelt whose ideology is nearer to contemporary Dems than the Republicans idiot-maker.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 1:21:40 PM
Apolitical,
4 democrats, huh? You would think that will tell you something about the Nobel Committee. Yasser Arafat received the award too. When these people hear the word peace, they think they are hearing "The Internationale" being played.
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Posted By: bbkenn92 @ 10/11/2009 5:33:46 PM
Jealous much???
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/09/2009 6:47:27 PM
The DNC says that if you mock Obama for his Nobel Prize, you are siding with the terrorists. What?
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Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/09/2009 7:40:52 PM
No sh*t?; Does this mean we aren't racists anymore?
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/09/2009 8:00:32 PM
earth,
Probably not. They are just adding to their list of allegations.-
Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/09/2009 9:05:00 PM
donaldrex;
Dang, the racist thing was getting a little old, guess the Nobel committee thought so also. Imagine if you wanted to further fuel disruption in a society this Nobel thing is the ticket! It is almost like Propaganda warfare at its best; disruption of distinct social and economic ideology conflicts in a County! This would be a great book!
Does this make me a conspiracy theorist, right wing terrorist, racist, tea parting, nut case? :-)-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/09/2009 10:10:39 PM
earth,
Perhaps the committee was afraid of being accused of racism by Jimmy Carter if they didn't vote for Obama. After all, they say that people who didn't vote for Obama in the election were racists. Did you ever think of that?
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 11:32:39 AM
I thought the dominant position of the Republicans is that nobody is or ever was afraid of Carter, just that Carter was afraid of rabbits, right? Stop making *** up.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 1:12:11 PM
Now Vigilance, I know that Carter has since denied it, but he did claim that opponents of ObamaCare were racists. No amount of back peddling will get him off the hook. Carter has gone from being the worst president of the last century to being the worst ex-president of the last century.
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Posted By: Tina_ @ 10/10/2009 1:15:42 PM
" . . but he did claim that opponents of ObamaCare were racists. "
Hi Donald,
You must have missed it, anyone that doesn't agree with Obama is racist.
I hope you are enjoying your Saturday.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 1:46:30 PM
Tina_,
So they say. But it is getting old and does not work anymore. It is about as big a joke now as Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize.-
Posted By: Tina_ @ 10/10/2009 2:16:06 PM
Donald,
Maybe Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize for apologizing to everybody. Then there is the the whole Iraq war and his bringing an end to it, oh wait he didn't do that yet. Maybe the Afgan war, no he didn't do that either. Ummm, yeah you are right it is a joke.
Maybe they'll come out with a Nobel Talking Prize. I'm sure he is a shoo-in for that too. Or maybe going on TV, he does that good too.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 2:49:55 PM
Tina_:Donald,
Maybe Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize for apologizing to everybody. Then there is the the whole Iraq war and his bringing an end to it, oh wait he didn't do that yet. Maybe the Afgan war, no he didn't do that either. Ummm, yeah you are right it is a joke.
Maybe they'll come out with a Nobel Talking Prize. I'm sure he is a shoo-in for that too. Or maybe going on TV, he does that good too.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Good guess Tina, but Obama was nominated before he began his Apology Tour. It may however have tipped the scales in the final vote. European elites really like Americans who abase themselves to please the European chattering class. To European elitists, Obama is the perfect American. He is embarrassed by American brashness and can do spirit. He believes in talk rather than action. All in all, he is a wine sipping, cheese eating pseudo-European. He was a lock for the award.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 3:37:03 PM
"Good guess Tina, but Obama was nominated before he began his Apology Tour."
The delusional xenophobic lack the perspective to be able to see anything through any others' eyes. They cannot even acknowledge that any other is entitled to their own point of view.
The USA was uniformly loved and praised after WWII. Then it became an arogant bully. Then it adopted the view, or at least the unthinking and uneducated and what we now call the neocons had to blame 'all others' for the concerns and eventual resentment we, ourselves, alone, had created among those grateful admirers.
So, let us blame 'the others'. For we have no concern for anyone but ourselves, and we must have 'pride' without introspection or integrity of responsibility.
We must interpret their concerns and their own national pride as that 'they HATE US!' Now we can exercise our own hate, and blame them for it.
And, then, we don't have to be responsible for any consequence of anything we do. We just demand and bully and accuse.
What goes on here at NW is a microcosm of all of that.
Then, a great man, a thinker, a man freed from the bonds of extreme racial and social egocentricism, by what turns out to be a fortunate mixture of race and culteral exposure, coupled with intellectual capacity and integrity and application of it, expresses an honest, and appropriately balanced view of humanity and nationalism, and recognizes that being civilized in its most basic meaning comes along, and as a great leader should, he acknowledges America's errors. And he apologizes. And he says that we will listen.
He proposes that we respect one another and work together to protect and advance common interests.
The unthinking, uneducated delusional xenophobes think they are criticizing by calling it an Apology Tour.
What happens? Our traditional allies, those lovers and respecters of America, love him too, and they want to work with us. For they no longer feel threatened, denigrated, dominated.
That threatens the unthinking, uneducated xenophobic self-justifying haters.
And they cannot understand. Nor can they relate. They lack the capacity. And they lack the inclinination. They probably never had it.
So they hate.
They get to act it all out here at NW.
They probably tell themselves they are doing something meritorious.
That is how we got into this mess. Culturally, nationally, humanly.
There will always be those who trail behind. Their final chance to think they have some value, if only to themselves, is to bite ankles. And accuse.
Then they roll in it for themselves to celebrate, and for the rest of us to lament.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 4:21:26 PM
40Year.R,
a. Wow! Support your country and you are xenophobic. What does that make the people whose goal in life is to kill us? Or don't you have an opinion on that?
b. A great man, a thinker? Who are you talking about? Aristotle? It certainly couldn't be anyone from this administration. They all come out of the "Pay to Play" ethos of Chicago. The only thing they've been known to think about is "what's in it for me."
c. Our traditional allies are frightened of Obama's fatuousness. Our enemies smile as they sharpen their knives. And Obama plods on with his "Can't we all just get along" foreign policy.
The Obama Nobel Peace Prize is a practical joke played on fools who think that European elites respect them.
P.S. Next time don't be so windy. Get to the point, if you have one.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 5:06:17 PM
There will always be those who trail behind. Their final chance to think they have some value, if only to themselves, is to bite ankles. And accuse.
Then they roll in it for themselves to celebrate, and for the rest of us to lament.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 7:02:42 PM
40year.R.
That's much better, succinct and to the point. The point is absolute nonsense, but at least you are trying.-
Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 9:20:32 PM
My whole post in this thread said it better.
It's the part the haters cannot understand. It's what, and who, went wrong.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 3:56:31 AM
40Year.R:My whole post in this thread said it better.It's the part the haters cannot understand. It's what, and who, went wrong.-----------------------------------------------------------------
The value of what you say is not measured by the word count. Remember "brevity is the soul of wit."
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/11/2009 1:57:34 PM
paulejb cannot think how to respond to this:
"My whole post in this thread said it better.
It's the part the haters cannot understand. It's what, and who, went wrong."
So, he again turns to that worn out book of quotations and pastes again another inapt quotation of someone else.-
Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 3:04:34 PM
40Year.R:paulejb cannot think how to respond to this:"My whole post in this thread said it better.It's the part the haters cannot understand. It's what, and who, went wrong."So, he again turns to that worn out book of quotations and pastes again another inapt quotation of someone else.-----------------------------------------------------------------
That quote stung, did it? I was just trying to give you some friendly advice about your windiness. You use almost as many words to say nothing as the president. It's like the two of you share a teleprompter.
As for the quote, it was perfect. "Brevity is the soul of wit." It's just that windbags like yourself never get it. You think that people judge you by your word count. They don't, they just get bored and tune you out.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 1:21:33 PM
No, that's the idiot analysis of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. Even Don Imus won't get behind Beck's hemorrhoidal nonsense. Did you catch him saying there were some nuts in the Fox News building?
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 1:17:28 PM
Let's talk about the rabbit episode. That happened about two years before I was born. It sounded hilarious.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/10/2009 1:43:54 PM
vigilance,
Oh, it was. It encapsulated the whole Carter presidency. Carter never recovered.-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/10/2009 9:38:51 PM
Nice to "meet" you. Sure I haven't met you somewhere before?
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 4:37:33 AM
vigilance,
I don't know. Were you part of the cheering crowd?-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 10/11/2009 9:03:18 AM
Nope. Certainly not. Not for you.
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Posted By: donaldrex @ 10/11/2009 9:13:44 AM
Vigilance:Nope. Certainly not. Not for you.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Me thinks thou dost protest too much."
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 12:09:17 AM
I just get so TIRED of those meanies calling good patriotic folk racists!
Posted By: jjj5 @ 10/09/2009 3:17:09 PM
of all the people.... they gave it to a spook
Posted By: zz333 @ 10/09/2009 1:27:45 PM
So let's join hands and sing Kumbhaya!
Posted By: brydges @ 10/09/2009 3:11:04 PM
Another Joke award for acomplishing nothing other than being a Black Democrat.-
Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/10/2009 12:56:56 AM
40Year.R;
Hey 40 how's it going? If you're going to do that you need to include the posts containing gun toting tea partying, white racists, Nazi... comments. Also remember to include all the bigotry and racism in Newsweek Articles I really like the ones where our children are racists...
This could keep going and going but isn't amazing how the Liberals and Democrats are in fact the biggest bigots and racists! But hey, I guess low self Esteem issues are the bane of all Parties; yes we do also have ours! Except for jjj5's post which went "too far" but is still within the bounds of the playing court our current Liberal Democrat mantras and the standards they have set.-
Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 3:00:04 PM
earth,
Racism is a scourge. A social illness. A blight upon humanity.
There is no justification for it. There is no excusing it.
It is the most basic, visceral, form of hate. Genetic.
Racists cannot justify themselves. They can only weekly try to 'defend' themselves by accusing others, just like the admonished child.
Then they whine because they are identified as racists.-
Posted By: earthorbitsthesun @ 10/10/2009 9:43:36 PM
Hey 40year;
Couldn't agree more "defend" themselves by accusing others' but it is amazing how it 90-70% of the time comes from the Left! :-)!-
Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 10:34:08 PM
earth,
It makes no one better to blame their own racism on others, nor does it excuse them.
Virtually all the racism I see at NW is acted out by the same types who are also, aparently compulsively, invested in the rightwing hysteria that is so evident here as well.
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Posted By: 40Year.R @ 10/10/2009 2:57:25 PM
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Posted By: dalemader @ 10/11/2009 8:21:13 AM
"helped to bring the world back from the brink of another Great Depression" huh? You must be referring to the stimulus. Oh yeah, that was genius.
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Posted By: Porkov @ 10/11/2009 8:07:43 AM
George Bush as Orwell's Emmanuel Goldstein, and Newsweek as the Ministry of Truth - that's surely going to puff up your creds with the self-anointed intelligentsia. Keep it up with the Two-Minute Hate routine. I won't be re-subscribing to your rag anytime soon.
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Posted By: artbiz @ 10/11/2009 8:01:09 AM
Since the Nobel Peace Prize committee is made up of members of the Norwegian Parliament, the Prize has become Norway`s method of becoming a voice in world politics.
Norway is a far out of the way, cold, wet, small nobody country in the world and their egoistic politicians must feel slighted for no one listening to their lofty, intellectual Nordic wisdom. Hence they use the Nobel Peace Prize as their only way to inject their politics onto the world stage.
Instead of calling it the the ???Nobel Peace Prize???, they should change the name to the ???Norwegian Politics Prize???, given to the person or group who most reflects the political opinion of the Norwegian parliament.
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Posted By: Porkov @ 10/11/2009 8:01:07 AM
Using Bush for your Orwellian "two-minute hate" ritual is hardly the sort of "journalism" that will sustain the interest of anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty. I won't be subscribing any time soon.
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