It's been two years since the start of the Iraq war, and with increasing news coverage of insurgents, torture scandals and successful elections, one issue has taken a back seat: the looting of the Iraq museum in Baghdad. Not so for Donny George, the museum's director, whose responsibility it is to try to locate and retrieve the priceless antiquities stolen in the mayhem that followed the liberation of Baghdad, as well as protect those items that were left behind. Currently also working with the World Monuments Fund, UNESCO and the Getty Center to train Iraqi employees in conservation and restoration, George took time out to speak with NEWSWEEK's Cathleen McGuigan about his efforts. Excerpts:
MCGUIGAN: Even when the looting began in 2003, there was great disagreement over the number of objects taken from the Iraqi National Museum.
GEORGE: The number given at that time was 170,000 objects. That was a mistake by journalists. We have lost 15,000 objects, but I believe the number will go up, as we have not finished the assessment of the damages yet. From those, we've retrieved 3,323 items with the Iraqi museum numbers on them--which mean they were actually stolen. We also have retrieved 1,450 items that came from the archeological sites. They have come to us through the Iraqi police, Iraqi customs, the multinational forces that are working on these things and the Iraqi people.
We also have some good number of items seized in neighboring countries: 38 pieces in Kuwait, 18 in Saudi Arabia, 1,250 in Jordan, 360 in Syria. We have 300 in Italy and over 600 in the United States. They have surfaced in those countries and been seized by the authorities there.
But we don't know what is there in Turkey or Iran. We are sure that Iraqi items are smuggled through these countries.
You've said that you don't actually want stolen items returned from countries like Italy or the United States. You want them to stay there for safekeeping?
Yes. Our museum is very close to Haifa Street, where we have incidents almost daily. We believe this is not the right time now to have them back. Since we know all about them and are promised them back whenever we want them, it is better to keep them in these countries.
What are some of the major pieces that have been returned?
There's the Warka vase, a real Sumerian masterpiece. Our young conservators are with Italian specialists working on the piece in Baghdad. We have the famous Basitke statue, a life-size statue of a young man. It was [originally] found in a village in the northern part of Iraq with this name, that's why we call it that. It's an Acadian piece that goes back to 2300 B.C. It was a very heavy piece, made of bronze. There is also the stone statue of King Schalmanezer, from the eighth century B.C. This piece has a very nice story. It was taken by two young men during the looting--they took nine very nice pieces to their houses. They came to us after the looting and they said, "Don't ask for our names or addresses. We were in the museum at the time of the looting. We felt very sorry because we could not stop anything." Then they decided they would take things and bring them back when it was safe. And they did it. As soon as we had the American soldiers protecting the museum, they brought back the nine pieces.
You still don't know when the museum will reopen.
Yes, mainly because of the security situation. We believe 100 percent that if we open now we will be a target.
Apparently looting at archeological sites is still rampant. How many such sites are there in Iraq?
Over 11,000 registered archeological sites.
Is there any estimate on how many objects have been taken from the sites?
No, we don't know what's been taken, because the objects aren't registered, unless they surface. We know, for example, that there are thousands of clay tablets that have appeared in the United States, and Europe and Japan--they all come from these archeological sites.
Is there no way to protect these sites?
Now that we can have some police in these places, and they can have cars, weapons and communication systems, much of the situation is becoming better. Recently, they caught four people red-handed, with antiquities in their hands, and took them to jail.
What can the international community do to help your efforts? Tighten up borders?
This is very important. The Jordanians are doing an excellent job. Even the Saudis are doing fine. [Everyone] except for Iran and Turkey. They are not even responding to Interpol announcements or appeals to protect their borders from smuggling Iraqi antiquities. I was at a meeting of Interpol in Amman some months ago, and the representatives of Iran and Turkey never came.